PSO2-Team planning to add new weapon grinding requirement to Expert block...

[SteveCZ]

http://www.g-heaven.net/topics/2016/12/161221a.html

Nice, it's updated. )b

Still no idea on the specifics of the condition though.

[Zysets]

I don't know when and why this thread got derailed to another affix war nor do I care.

But the fact is: In future, you only need a weapon grinding (title?) to get in expert blocks. Using ungrinded weapon or umbra stick in such blocks will NOT cause the system to kick you out.

"It's up to players conscience" -Kimura

I mean that should have been expected, would have been ridiculous to do it that way, what if you equip a weapon and go to finish it's grind while in expert blocks? Would be stupid to force people to move out of expert blocks to do that.

[sparab]

I mean that should have been expected, would have been ridiculous to do it that way, what if you equip a weapon and go to finish it's grind while in expert blocks? Would be stupid to force people to move out of expert blocks to do that.

Because people asked. KMR also stressed "there is nothing they can do if players idle leech with 8s *14" so "they'd rather set a (extremely) low bar and leave everything to players' conscience".

Probably just trying to bar players who fist cleared solo XQ.

[KazeSenoue]

@Kondibon
I do a lot of math in my head.

The damage between those with average 12* weapons and your top weapon there is 1.67 (if you divide the averages of the two weapons). You are counting units too, so this being said. It appears as though 3 endgame players deal the damage that 5 players with average 12* would deal. Am I right or wrong?

I got that from
872/522 = 1.67
I then converted this to the fraction 5/3
Then multiplied by 3 to eliminate the denominator and be left with 5.

From the point of view of a player that reached endgame with a standard 12* weapon, it would mean we invert the fraction to change point of view. He deals 60% of the damage an endgame player with the same build would do. This number is actually less because your numbers assumes that the player is at level cap. This means that if we encounter a player who doesn't have units or weapons affixed and doesn't have a full tree, the damage might be even lower than this comparison of 60%.

I've always told players that the important thing in 13* weapons is to get them to 60% element and fully grinded to have their potentials unlocked. That deals the most damage. Affixes are extra (but shouldn't be ignored). I know players who they go for minimal primary-stat increases in their weapons and go after secondary stat increases (like adding a lot of PP to the weapon itself in order to get more uses of their PAs) They will go for around 50 - 70 Attack Points and then do as much as possible to pump up PP.

This just goes to show how important gear is in making an EQ run go as fast as possible. That is of course if the EQ run doesn't have a limit on max number of runs. If it doesn't then gear is not as important as even beating a run incredibly fast won't get a player a second run there unless of course he or she wants to log into a character on another ship and do the run there too... but I hold my opinion of that being kind of pushing it and greedy.

Though I don't like the damage calculator at all...
Good Job on working with the data itself.

Wait I have a question. I don't think it's clear enough, did you do that with the damage calculator or not?

[ThePSOVeteran]

Inb4 Sega makes nearly every block expert and we get locked out of game for not having any space (even premium) to play since we are not Experts! lol. I for one am trying to grind every weapon in game for titles, so I'll be hell bent on getting the required title too. I bet its one of those get X number of 11*, 12*, or 13* NT weapons to +35 titles.

[ZerotakerZX]

Inb4 Sega makes nearly every block expert and we get locked out of game for not having any space (even premium) to play since we are not Experts! lol. I for one am trying to grind every weapon in game for titles, so I'll be hell bent on getting the required title too. I bet its one of those get X number of 11*, 12*, or 13* NT weapons to +35 titles.

I think they'll add a new title. I think they done it last time, iirc.

[Keilyn]

Wait I have a question. I don't think it's clear enough, did you do that with the damage calculator or not?

At the beginning of the 12th page of this thread, Kondibon spent some time doing research and posted the following screenshot:


I remember reading her post and being happy that a math and science standard was present, and so I decided to reply to it. Notice, that there are three damage numbers for each weapon entry. The Min, Max, and Mean. Mean is another way of saying "Average." As you can see, this shot has the calculated damage already. I can just work with the data.

If you read the mean of the [Average 12*] it reads 522.
If you read the mean of the [Ray 10603 BiS Affix] it reads 872.

Now if we want to compare two numbers, we use division.
Division actually means "A comparison between two numbers"

We take a calculator and we write in 872/522 since these numbers already represent an attack against a monster with a set defense parameter. We end up getting 1.6709.

This is where my mental math took over. Rather than continue using a calculator I did an approximation.
This is where I used a skill all students are required to learn late 5th grade and Early 6th grade, which is to see a non-whole number as a fraction, percentage, or ratio.

I said "1.6666 is very close to 1.6709, just a little less of 4 thousandths (look at the third number after the decimal point) which is the same as 5/3rds.

Now lets say that I was the one who had the [10603 BiS Ray Weapon] and you had the [Average 12*] weapon. The number 5/3rds represents the damage viewpoint from my end and not yours. In short, it is from my perspective in which I would deal (In this case according to the statistical data against this particular enemy) +67% more damage (1.6709 approximated as 1.66).

In order to represent this data from your point of view,
I simply Invert the fraction itself.
All this means is that both numbers swap places.
5/3 becomes 3/5

This now means that compared to me, you inflict 60% of my damage.

So where did I conjure up that three people with [10603 BiS Ray Weapon] deal the damage of five players under the same class, level, and build with [Average 12*]?

The answer is in that fraction.
Lets say that I want to eliminate the denominator so we no longer have a fraction.
I choose to multiply the bottom number (denominator) by the top number (numerator) to be left with the top number (numerator) as a whole number.

This means that it takes five people (numerator) to equal the damage of the three people (Denominator) as demonstrated by the following:
If I deal 5/3rds your damage, it means my damage is 1.66 or 5/3rds and in your case your damage is 1 or in the case of fractions its 3/3 considering I don't want to deal with .3333, .6666, or .9999s. Its amazing how we can picture thirds better in our brain than calculators.

5/3
5/3
5/3

3/3
3/3
3/3
3/3
3/3

So if we have 8 players....
5/3 * 3 = 15/3 (5/3 represent players with [BiS 10603 Ray Weapon])
3/3 * 5 = 15/3 (3/3 represent players with [Average 12*])

Now lets do it from the other point of view.
If you deal 3/5th my damage, that means your damage is 3/5 and my damage is 1 or in other words...5/5.

3/5
3/5
3/5
3/5
3/5

5/5
5/5
5/5

Now we have
3/5 * 5 = 15/5 (3/5 represent players with [Average 12*])
5/5 * 3 = 15/5 (5/5 represent players with [BiS 10603 Ray Weapon])

Notice that this is the exact same information, but from another point of view.
Call this Respect, as many individuals would post information in one-sided fashion.


We then ask the question:
Why would possess a player to have a typical 12* in an endgame EQ?
The answer could be that the player is new and doesn't know how to grind/affix. The player also could be leveling up and has not reached equip parameters yet, Maybe he or she has not raised their mag, etc.

One thing we know is that data would be assumed with both players being the same level and build. What if the 12* weapon wielder was not at level cap yet and didn't have all their skills yet? The answer is that the player will deal less damage. This means a level 70 player who is behind 9 skill points (5 skill points from levels and 4 from class ex-cubes) will do lower damage if the player is still working on the damage-dealing skills in the skill tree.

So the question goes....
Looking at points of view:

Is it better to look at it from the point of view of the endgame player with a 10603 BiS Ray Weapon?
This is good if we want to argue just how much power weapons truly have and how important it is to get a weapon.

How about the point of view of the players using the Average 12* weapon?
Well, it is easier to increase the power of a player who has an Average 12* weapon, while it becomes extremely difficult to increase an endgame player's overall power outside of working on attack efficiency (making sure all the hits land when in time they are required to do so), but seeing that a player might actually hit for less than 3/5th damage of an endgame player means that a lot of room exists to work with that player.

Looking from above to below, we might not see that much we aren't used to seeing.
Looking from below to above, we might dream to one day touch the heavens...

So back to your question.
I did not use the Damage Calculator myself.
I used data attained through the damage calculator that was posted by Kondibon to apply my logic and reasoning skills to draw my own conclusion based on the data that was presented.

[Zorak000]

if I have to have 6 slots to enter the block then I'll just put

shoot I
gloom resist I
spirita I
emper embrace
nuya fever
ability I

on a +35 Gunslash; not just any gunslash, but Gunslash

[Alenoir]

inb4 title asking for a 13*

Edit: Not sure why you're even including that Ability I.

[Zysets]

if I have to have 6 slots to enter the block then I'll just put

shoot I
gloom resist I
spirita I
emper embrace
nuya fever
ability I

on a +35 Gunslash; not just any gunslash, but Gunslash

6s rumor is probably fake because it makes no sense

ex: your post