SUGU Nerf incoming, Deus Esca is first!

[milranduil]

they already went through the trauma of Chain Banish and Magatsu

chain maron nerf and chain banish "nerf" are not the same thing though. banish/volg have never been explosions that multiplied with hitbox (except for less than 1.0) with the exception of JA/crit. placing them on WB never mattered because the damage was a reflection of what you put into them. chain banish/volg was bugged in the sense that it multiplied what went into the explosion by an additional 3-5x which imo was bad testing and not intentional. chain maron is not bugged, it's imbalanced.

[doomdragon83]

but people should realise that a game needs nerfs sometimes, and that is going to mean some of your investments will get nuked.

Needs nerfs? What is needed is foresight, on the devs part. They should have been able to see how things would play out if they release something like Marron to the playerbase, especially taking into consideration things that were an "issue" before like Weak Bullet, Chain Trigger (in this case) and any other legit combination of classes/skills from which "issues" could arise.

You don't just throw something new out into the game without thinking it through unless you're Sega apparently.

[Altiea]

Needs nerfs? What is needed is foresight, on the devs part. They should have been able to see how things would play out if they release something like Marron to the playerbase, especially taking into consideration things that were an "issue" before like Weak Bullet, Chain Trigger (in this case) and any other legit combination of classes/skills from which "issues" could arise.

You don't just throw something new out into the game without thinking it through unless you're Sega apparently.

Have you played MapleStory?

[doomdragon83]

Have you played MapleStory?

No. What about it?

[Altiea]

No. What about it?

MapleStory is notorious for adding new classes without actually balancing them first. Whenever a new class arrives, it's typically able to solo raid bosses that previously existing content has problems doing, then Nexon decides to apply the balance patches a month or two later.

I guess the point is that SEGA's not the only company that adds new things without thorough playtesting.

[Xaelouse]

You don't just throw something new out into the game without thinking it through unless you're Sega apparently.

The entire concept of Bouncer is still living proof of this.

[echofaith]

I played maple before, but I felt the new classes being OP was actually on purpose. Otherwise, most people wouldnt bother to play them over their already geared chars s:

[doomdragon83]

MapleStory is notorious for adding new classes without actually balancing them first. Whenever a new class arrives, it's typically able to solo raid bosses that previously existing content has problems doing, then Nexon decides to apply the balance patches a month or two later.

I guess the point is that SEGA's not the only company that adds new things without thorough playtesting.

Whenever I hear of Nexon, it's always in a negative light.
My point is that there would have been less of need to balance things if Sega took the time to think: "how would adding X affect our game?". They already had to deal with Chain Banish before and now another "problem" pops up in regards to CT, something that should have been nipped in the bud since Marron's conception. To think that some people should expect to have their builds ruined because some oaf at Sega couldn't be bothered to think ahead is awful. Players who come up with these builds do so from stuff already available to them.

[GHNeko]

chain maron nerf and chain banish "nerf" are not the same thing though. banish/volg have never been explosions that multiplied with hitbox (except for less than 1.0) with the exception of JA/crit. placing them on WB never mattered because the damage was a reflection of what you put into them. chain banish/volg was bugged in the sense that it multiplied what went into the explosion by an additional 3-5x which imo was bad testing and not intentional. chain maron is not bugged, it's imbalanced.

oh yeah i know.

i was making the comparison because the bug existed for a long time iirc and sega didnt do anything about it until new content was added and put chain banish in the spot light.

[Ziel]

Needs nerfs? What is needed is foresight, on the devs part. They should have been able to see how things would play out if they release something like Marron to the playerbase, especially taking into consideration things that were an "issue" before like Weak Bullet, Chain Trigger (in this case) and any other legit combination of classes/skills from which "issues" could arise.

You don't just throw something new out into the game without thinking it through unless you're Sega apparently.

Well heres a few examples from well known games where they HAD to patch shit up

WoW example (of many):

Spoiler!

There was a video posted on YouTube a few years back where a paladin killed, in one move, a raid boss designed for dozens of players to take several minutes to bring down. The Reckoning talent had the effect that when a paladin was struck they might gain a stack of Reckoning, causing their next attack to hit twice. One enterprising player dueled a rogue many times without ever striking back, then went up to the boss in question and proceeded to hit it more than a thousand times in one blow. Within twenty four hours the talent was nerfed so that it caused you to hit twice for the next few attacks. Of course, seeing as Reckoning was about the only ability in the entire game that possessed neither stack limit nor duration, this was only to be expected.

The worst offender of all is of course Absolute Virtue in FFXI, long wall o´ text ahead warning, but worth the entertainment:

Spoiler!

Absolute Virtue, who is for all intents and purposes totally invincible due to his ability to use the most powerful abilities of every job, as well as cast high-level black magic that players don't even have access to instantaneously and frequently, wiping out alliances of players in seconds. Every time a method is discovered to defeat him, Square-Enix will immediately squash it by giving Absolute Virtue new resistances and powers as his flaws were discovered.

-When players killed him by attacking him from areas he couldn't fight back, the developers gave him the ability to draw players to him if they got too far away.

-Later on, the devs were pressured into rethinking the absurd difficulty of some of their bosses after some bad publicity involving an 18-hour-long fight against a different monster, so they lowered the HP of both that boss and Absolute Virtue and forced them to despawn if not defeated within two hours. Players discovered that a legion of Dark Knights using a combination of the job ability Souleater (consumes HP to increase damage dealt) and Blood Weapon (restores HP equal to melee damage inflicted), he could be bumrushed into defeat. Within days, a patch was made that gave Absolute Virtue (and ONLY Absolute Virtue - other monsters that had previously been defeated with this method were totally untouched) increasing resistance to Souleater damage, making it useless.

-A theoretical method of defeating him involved using the Scholar's Helix line of spells, which deal a fairly large amount of damage over time. The helix was placed on the enemy, and then a group of Scholars simultaneously use a job ability that doubles the damage dealt by the next tic of damage while halving its overall duration. The result is that most enemies in the game will drop dead immediately, although execution requires very precise timing (and, in most cases, botting). As soon as people discussed how it could be used to defeat Absolute Virtue, "certain notorious monsters" were given a resistance to the use of the JA. Guess who was at the top of the priority list?

You can never have enough foresight to predict how between thousands of people someone finds a way to fuck the meta or experiments with a build your beta testers never did because everyone´s playstyle is different even if your job is to test a game with few months to do so (if any) hence why open betas are popular; things like these are specially egregius in games like LoL and Dota where new items intended for a purpose end up ridiculously overpowering something else and get either reworked or removed.

Anyone remembers that bug in PSO2 that allowed people to move npcs around the lobby and got banned for reporting it?

I still find it ridiculous that a damage utility of a class works better on other classes than on the intended one.