The game is not going to require every single defensive skill in the game to survive a single hit. The boosts right now can be managed fine with a minor amount of HP from affixes / base HP from units / resists. God forbid maybe taking HP drink instead of attack. Long ass attacks that deal over 1.5k you shouldn't even be getting hit by in the first place.Originally Posted by GHNeko
This is an RPG. Adapt.
Spoken like someone who doesn't run any of the aforementioned builds.
First of all minor HP/Def/Resist aren't going help tanking hits in boosted UQ. Also, UQ is filled with hits that aren't long/slow that hit up to 400+ damage easily now. You're going to need to invest a decent amount into defensive/survival affixes for a reasonable rate of survival.
Secondly, you don't need all the defensive skills in the game in order to survive a single hit. At the very least, all you need is AM for builds that run Hu sub. That way they can have up to like 30 chances to survive hits that don't outright KO them.
Builds like FiBr and FiBo with Izane/Zein units and HP affixes; don't have that luxury.
I run around with 400 HP in LB with FiBo and get clipped for 401~700HP all the time in UQ. And these aren't like super slow and hella telegraphed attacks. These are just one of the many small fast attacks that can occur from off-screen in the clusterfuck of hitboxes that make up UQ.
So no, it's not a matter of simply adapting. In order to easily survive more than a single hit in the current UQ, You'd need to completely redo affixes just so I can maybe reach 500HP and survive maybe 10-20% more often. And that's stupid when no content in the game requires and ever required that level of survivability. Ever.
like come on.
Guts Drink and minor HP affixes aren't going to be enough. If you actually ran these builds, you would know this.
Last edited by GHNeko; Oct 21, 2017 at 03:08 AM.
I'm using glass cannon saiki units with around 960 HP that are old as hell because nothing has made me want to upgrade them. My defensive stats are lower for this content than I would like, I get one shot by attacks I could survive with slightly more HP, but I'm still able to get through plenty of runs without dying once. If this content wasn't here for just a week I would affix a bit more HP so I could play more comfortably. Minor defensive boosts like I mentioned because that's all I feel is needed, your mileage may vary. If amdu got boosted with 200% attack permanently then I'd just affix even more HP. If I was playing FO I'd probably need more HP affixes or something else on top of that to get high enough survivability. That's what I mean by adapting. And yes if you need to invest into another unit set with more survivability because the content demands it then so be it. How is that in any way, shape or form an issue? Because it's not how the game has worked until now? The game has tons of options for survivability and it's about time the content starts to demand some of it.
The rest of your post about limit break; I wasn't referring to running limit break full time in these missions when I said adapt with regards to your gear. If you get one shot during limit break then so be it, that's the price you pay. Get better at dodging or blocking. At some point gear should not cover for limit break so you can take random stray hits, that's just something you'd have to accept and pick better times to limit break instead. If that kills the viability of the class because it hinges on limit break being up as much as possible then oh well, better hope Sega makes improvements to that combination outside of limit break in that case.
Last edited by tsundere4you; Oct 21, 2017 at 03:39 AM.
use limit break and die ok i get it
ResidentSleeper
Getting through UQ without dying isn't the problem. The problem is that attacks are just completely disproportionately strongcompared to mid-tier and above players.
The problem with what you're saying by telling people to " just get new affixes/gear" is that people invest millions of meseta and dozens, if not hundreds of hours into farming end-game units.
The problem is you're casually telling people, "yeah sure just farm extra izane units or extra welia boards. Just get yourself another set of Izane/Qliph units and put like maybe an extra 50HP on each of them then you'll be fine." When the shit your suggesting isn't even normally necessary in the first place.
The problem is making limited time content that demands a complete re-evaluation of how you gear is not in anyway good or appropriate, especially when there is no precedent for such a thing in the first place.
People's time and resources are limited so demanding all this shit out of the blue for a limited time only is just a slap to the face and doesn't make anyone but those who invested in defensive units happy.
Also, invalidating builds and classes out of timed content out of the blue is also another way to shit on people's efforts.
It's just stupid. Don't disproportionally increase attack power to something the whole community has never once had to deal with with no warning all for some limited time content. That just frustrates people. Sega has been creating content around the meta for years now and there are other ways to create challenging content in ways that dont bother people.
Speeding up attacks and adding extra attacks like they did with revamped PD was a great way of making harder content other than "lol atk power 5x."
If you're gonna create content that requires survivability, then it damn well better be balanced as such.
Also, "just dodge better and not get hit" is horrible advice because UQ is the type of content where if you're performing well that you're going to get hit due to aggro. You just need to limit how much you get in in the first place. Which is what I do in NORMAL UQ. I can manage to keep my hits in UQ to acceptable levels, even during LB. But when when you lazily bump up attack values like this, then all of a sudden the builds I sink dozens upon dozens of hours into suddenly is too much of a liability?
That's also stupid.
Last edited by GHNeko; Oct 21, 2017 at 04:13 AM.
Yes, and I agree. But you don't need to create an entirely new gear setup. As mentioned before you have 3 options that are not gear and class specific that can change this:
Defense Up from Team Tree
Deband or Guts drink from campship
Jerky or Marinade
And of course, using that tech that has a blue arrow pointing upwards. I'm near certain most people will say "wtf is that, what does it do?". Or using Debanrides.
Yes you will lose ~50% atk. But you will gain ~50% more def. Without changing your equipment, and without changing your class and skill points. The option exists. Try it out.
Only "but muh dps" players have an issue with this test Sega is doing.
Def means nothing because death means nothing. Usually at worst, you wait a bit before revival, and dumping more into damage would offset time wasted dying and more importantly, takes less effort.
Also best defence is a good offense. if you die in 3 hits, why work increasing that to 5 or 6 when you can just kill the boss before his 3rd attack, and farm it faster?
This is a problem that plagues every game from dark souls to monster hunter to pso2, dps will always be the more efficient and easier option.
also if sega wants something other then dps they shouldnt have made the entire focus of time attacks, challenge mode, solo boss fights, solo xq with timed spawns all about killing as fast as possible. Sega beat it into players heads that dps is most important, there's no undoing that without starting over.
Last edited by Tenlade; Oct 21, 2017 at 01:08 PM.
This is an excellent argument and the reason why the atk-meta exists. Since the goal is always to deplete the enemy hp to 0, then the fastest way to do that is the winner option.
MMOs with trinity or similar systems do not follow that. The goal there is again to deplete enemy hp to 0. However, you need people who are dedicated in keeping the enemy's attention and in one place. And there are people who are dedicated in restoring whatever damage the first party receives. And there are people who are dedicating in enhancing the capabilities of the first 2 parties. etc. PSO2 lacks this role system even though similar abilities are actually already coded.
Now imagine the following. Imagine that Sega implements a new gaming mode: Attrition mode. In it you fight infinite enemies and the game ends when the party dies. Enemies gain more atk per wave without a cap. Reward is based on how many waves were cleared. In this hypothetical mode, the meta would be to go full defense, because full atk would reach stage X the quickest, but players would die. Full defense would ensure they can pass stage X even though it would take longer to reach it.
>~50% more def
no not really.
Deband drink is only 20% to base stats. Same with tree boost. Deband is 19.7% while Deband item is less. End game units are around 320-340 Def per stat. A full set of units is at least 960 defense. Average defense values are around 1800-1950. So Units make up at least 50% of your defense. Deband-related things don't boost your defense from units.
Male Human FiHu has SDef of 745. With all the deband shit, it jumps up to 1284. With units you can break 2300 Sdef.
That still isnt enough in boosted UQ.
I would know. My FiBo breaks 2300 SDef in UQ.
This is only looking at SDef. FiHu has 100 less RDef and TDef, meaning those deband boosts scale less and so you don't gear nearly the same oomph running pure defensive boosts, and UQ has a handful of R and Tatks that will shit on you regadless of how high you stack boosts.
Defense boosts aren't enough unless you stack to ridiculous proportions. The attack boost is just too much; plain and simple.
Your best bet for UQ survivability, are timed affixes that can get you up to 100 def per type. But that's about it.
Last edited by GHNeko; Oct 21, 2017 at 04:45 PM.
In my experience increasing your hp and resistances is more valuable than defense anyway. But that's fine. No need to take any of that into account.
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