Is SEGA being desperate now?

[KatsuraJun]

Like I said, there is no real way of dodging a lot of stuffs, I do understand telegraphed moves but there are times that even if you know the enemy is about to use it, you have no real way of responding in such cases like,

recovering from a knock back, hit stun for attack

That means you got hit in the first place from something else. don't get hit, or alternatively, get air reversal ring for knockbacks.

charging tech

then time it better so you can charge parry it or cancel the charge it if you didn't

PA delays

there are very few PAs that lock you into the animation and none that you should just be randomly using while the boss is still attacking.

middle of reviving someone

then don't revive someone when the boss is still attacking. We left someone on the ground for a good 20 seconds in Gracia until he started doing his back and forth sweep when we knew we wouldn't get hit for trying to moon.

Again and again, just because I got hit doesn't mean I can't dodge.

it means you aren't as good as you think you are. You might be able to dodge in a vacuum, but you aren't able to adapt to the what the boss is doing. The only reason it didn't matter before now is because everything hit like a wet noodle, and people are now clamoring for it back so they can ignore everything with automate or some guy casting megiverse nearby.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

it means you aren't as good as you think you are. You might be able to dodge in a vacuum, but you aren't able to adapt to the what the boss is doing. The only reason it didn't matter before now is because everything hit like a wet noodle, and people are now clamoring for it back so they can ignore everything with automate or some guy casting megiverse nearby.

People are clamoring to not be blindsided by near-one shots from full HP. It's called a middle ground, but way to misrepresent points.

[isCasted]

snip

Thanks for thoughtful yet laconic response. It pretty much covers Hunter, Braver and, to a certain extent, Hero. These classes have decent range on their attacks, so, I guess, seeing laser from a distance wouldn't be much of an issue.

On the other hand, there is Fighter. With Fighter I absolutely have to hug the head, and in terms of camera I pretty much have to choose between looking at main body for that lightning telegraph or the other dragon head for its attacks. Unlike Hu and Br, blocking doesn't give extra iframes. In fact, hitstops on TD action and Acro Effect slow you down, and those have quite a lot of recovery frames. Getting hit by something you didn't see during those might mean you'll get hit by something you anticipated to block with your next move, because your recovery frames will be delayed. Facet Folia's iframes are quite long, so it might be a good tool against 3 simultaneous attacks, but timing its usage is also an issue due to startup time, as well as recovery frames, not to mention the fact that often you have to cancel the previous PA with a twirl to start it. All of that startup time means you are given barely enough time to react to some things, and that's on top of the fact that you have to react to three different things at once, and those three different things are not synchronized in any way.

There's also this issue that dragon heads like to move around so much they wander to another head's territory and then they clip through each other. When that happens... You have to watch out for THREE dragon heads, not two or one. Chances are the third head is busy fighting the person who's fighting it or the fourth head, but that's not always the case.

Every single move you're talking about is telegraphed and none of them get used in such quick succession that dodging/blocking would be an issue during the split phase where only one or two heads are even capable of attacking you at a time.

That's the issue I'm trying to raise. It's that they DO happen in quick succession, without any synchronization, with random timing each time. Main body and each individual dragon head are completely independent beings in terms of behavior. When you are whaled on by everything telegraphs don't do shit, because the area covered by attacks is massive (so stepping out of the area might not be possible) and certain defensive tools have recovery frames during which you are helpless.

there are very few PAs that lock you into the animation and none that you should just be randomly using while the boss is still attacking.

It isn't just PAs that lock you in place, even something as quick as Step has brief moments when you are vulnerable, and you can't say not to use Step, can you?

just wait for the heads to thrust out before attacking

You're on a time limit at this point, so waiting for one random attack to happen is not an option.

Anyway, I'm kinda curious about those no-damage runs. Most of the runs I've seen featured Fornis the entire time, and damage was taken even under LB. Not sure what I have to put in search query to find those. And suppose those people truly have enough skill to recognize 100% of possible situations dragons can cause and time their dodging appropriately, and it's not that it's only possible to dodge 99% of stuff and in those runs that 1% of bullshit didn't happen. Why is there such a huge difference in skill requirement between a lucky and an unlucky pattern? Why do unlucky patterns of dragon attacks require so much more thought and mechanical prowess than everything Deus throws at you when he's at his final phase? Even if there is a possibility that a player could be skillful enough to dodge all dragon attacks for eternity (doesn't mean such person has to exist, there just has to be a possibility), isn't this still a sign of dumb design?

[milranduil]

here you go, ds gracia. not a no-damage run, but something can be learned with how this guy avoids dying.

Spoiler!

[KatsuraJun]

That's the issue I'm trying to raise. It's that they DO happen in quick succession, without any synchronization, with random timing each time. Main body and each individual dragon head are completely independent beings in terms of behavior. When you are whaled on by everything telegraphs don't do shit, because the area covered by attacks is massive (so stepping out of the area might not be possible) and certain defensive tools have recovery frames during which you are helpless.

It isn't just PAs that lock you in place, even something as quick as Step has brief moments when you are vulnerable, and you can't say not to use Step, can you?

I almost exclusively used step to dodge in my Gracia run and there were 0 times where his attacks lined up so perfectly that it caught me in that less than a second of recovery between my first and next step. It's really not as common as you guys are making it out to be, and in any case this isn't a case of "too much shit on your screen to see what's happening" like some people were claiming.

And even then, almost every melee class some kind of guard frame skill (Deadly Circle 0, charging literally anything on hunter, Brightness End) that is perfect for dealing with some extended succession of attacks.

You're on a time limit at this point, so waiting for one random attack to happen is not an option.

The heads open with an overhead slam that leaves all of them vulnerable, giving you plenty of time to attack. Afterwards, there's still a ton of heads and one of them is bound to thrust forward. As the heads get knocked off, yes, you might be waiting around if you're looking for that specific attack to punish, but with less heads you can safely approach the boss anyway at that point. You want to say this is an improbability but "Deus just happens to catch you on that fraction of a second between steps over and over again until you hit 5 deaths" is common?

Even if there is a possibility that a player could be skillful enough to dodge all dragon attacks for eternity (doesn't mean such person has to exist, there just has to be a possibility), isn't this still a sign of dumb design?

I never died to the dragon heads, and I don't consider myself a particularly skilled player either. I feel like the ability to dodge them is being way overplayed, their attacks are so painfully telegraphed that you don't even need to look at them, so you just really need to look at deus to see if he's launching lightning spears - at least for the split phase, I can totally understand being hit during the post-moon blown up phase, hence me advocating just playing a bit more safely. There's 8 heads and at least one (if not multiple) are bound to thrust forward giving you a moment to safely attack.

[MightyHarken]

Oh my God, the amount of people whinning here because now they´re dying is cringeworthy. I honestly hope that all content in XH equals to this level forever, and if you can´t win then play SH or start affixing something that isn´t pure attack. I always affixed my units with 150 atk, 50 HP and 5PP to be able to take hits.

I chose Ra/Hu because of the survival abilities such as flash guards, iron will, automate. I was prepared for this since the beginning! And I always laughed at those that only bothered with atk builds because the game "didn´t need any other stat". Now they´re on the floor crying like babies to get picked up and making posts about it in the forums, lmao.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Oh my God, the amount of people whinning here because now they´re dying is cringeworthy. I honestly hope that all content in XH equals to this level forever, and if you can´t win then play SH or start affixing something that isn´t pure attack. I always affixed my units with 150 atk, 50 HP and 5PP to be able to take hits.

I chose Ra/Hu because of the survival abilities such as flash guards, iron will, automate. I was prepared for this since the beginning! And I always laughed at those that only bothered with atk builds because the game "didn´t need any other stat". Now they´re on the floor crying like babies to get picked up and making posts about it in the forums, lmao.

Sooo you want more things to hit people for 1k? That's perfectly fine to you?

Elaborate then: what does that add to the game? Does it make it more fun somehow? Drop the hipster crap and make a proper point.

Also congratulations on affixing a grand total of... 100 hp more than me? I use austere + union that comes with 265 hp innately and almost 10% striking, ranged, and tech damage reduction, and I still find 1k+ hits from Anga in ult Amd very stupid. How much HP do you actually have anyway? Can't be much more than anyone else if you're putting a whopping +50hp on each of your unit affixes.

[KatsuraJun]

actually forcing people to avoid damage instead of standing in megiverse or relying on automate for complete invincibility is a pretty good thing to add to the game. I legitimately want the current boosted enemies to be the standard, personally.

might also legitimately be too hardcore for the playerbase though seeing as how content is expected to be cleared 100% of the time by pug groups. The actual problem with boosted Gracia is there's no way to guarantee a 100% pug clear rate, the intended design of EQs by sega, Even if you personally avoid dying the other 3 people, well... not so much. I was lucky and got a good group and cleared on my very last run before the EQ timed out, but my other two runs were populated by people who managed to get a death even before I finished spawning in.

Maybe if they segregate boosted rematches as the "hard modes" that aren't expected to be cleared by everyone from normal EQ runs as the normal modes it'd be acceptable, kind of like savage in XIV.

[MightyHarken]

Sooo you want more things to hit people for 1k? That's perfectly fine to you?

Elaborate then: what does that add to the game? Does it make it more fun somehow? Drop the hipster crap and make a proper point.

Also congratulations on affixing a grand total of... 100 hp more than me? I use austere + union that comes with 265 hp innately and almost 10% striking, ranged, and tech damage reduction, and I still find 1k+ hits from Anga in ult Amd very stupid. How much HP do you actually have anyway? Can't be much more than anyone else if you're putting a whopping +50hp on each of your unit affixes.

Perfectly fine for me because I´m not getting hit for 1000. I´m getting hit for 600-750 and even then I still have automate. Remember tht there´s a mag that you can boost to your needs also. In PSO1 there wasn´t a forgiving phase in bosses, if it killed you it killed you. You couldn´t do anything about it except level up some more or hunt for better equipment.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Maybe if they segregate rematches as the "hard modes" that aren't expected to be cleared by everyone from normal EQ runs as the normal modes it'd be acceptable, kind of like savage in XIV.

Funny you bring up FF14 since I cleared A4s when it was relevant, and V4s over a month ago.

What makes savage a good challenge is the use of new mechanics, and the demand for coordination, and planning.

FF14 savage modes do more to make a fight challenging than just multiplying the damage and HP enemies have.

There's no comparison between normal->savage mode FF14 content and unboosted->boosted Ult Amd.

The other thing is, ever since the beginning of this game, all these upgraded modes ever amounted to be were more HP and damage, but never made the game any harder. It just made for bigger HP sponges that we stunlocked to death. If oodans started hitting people for 2k damage tomorrow, would that make this game any harder?

Better ideas would be:

-Less hitstun/CC vulnerable enemies. I didn't mind those skull soldiers having an immunity in BQ the other week, while they still hit for a fair amount of damage.
-Stacking, temporary HP cut for getting hit like in Ninja Gaiden Sigma that only goes away over time (zigmorde was a step in the right direction because of of her hits came with an HP cut)