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  1. #1

    Default Some questions about hero dps / dpp

    I got a bunch of questions about hero...

    The swiki dps / dpp table is kind of a mess with partially missing data and a lack of consistency. And google being google doesn't help either.

    1) Moment of Trick has higher single target dps than Brand New Star?

    2) What's the real final dps of Racer of Edge x2 > 3rd Talis normal considering enemies tend to have higher tech res than striking / ranged res?

    3) The combo is Rising Slash juggle only and cancel before down swing x2 > 3rd sword normal? Swiki lists it has having higher dps if you include the downward swing...I think.

    4) swiki lists various multipliers from *2 to *5 for the hero attacks, that means attacks and PAs on hero have different multipliers when used during counter? E.g. swiki lists Racer of Edge as having higher dps and a *2 multiplier when you don't hold down to change to sword but if you do hold down to change to sword the dps is much lower, yet during counter you get a *5 multiplier?

    5) For the Racer of Edge x2 > 3rd Talis normal combo it lists "H Attack Bonus (※ 2)" but it does not list a 2nd dps number for counter, what? Then what does the 1798 mean?

    6) what is the best dps / dpp strat on hero? Supposedly the Rising Slash x2 > 3rd sword normal combo has the highest final dps but the dpp is low and overall dps feels lower than with other combos cause you have to refill pp much more often and Vapor Bullet seems to miss frequently at close range (i.e. most of the time since it moves you a lot) so the vapor x2 > 3rd sword normal combo isn't always that great either. Leaves mainly the Talis Racer combo which seems to me to have the highest dps overall considering the dpp is so high (and unlike sword it doesn't have to be melee with long animation pas so you don't get hit as often) but due to enemy tech res I am not actually sure how strong it truly is.

    7) Likewise, what's the best dps / dpp strat for the two weapons other than the one with the overall best dps / dpp combo?

    8.) How important is the DoT on Talis? Is it worth to use Jet Wheel on a group of mobs / a boss that doesn't move nonstop?

    9) And how about Wise Hound, is it worth using (especially when you could spam more Racer combos)? Does it stack from mutiple uses on the same target or is each use replacing the previous one like with Jet Wheel? Even if, can you have it active on multiple enemies if you use it more then once, i.e. first use is on enemy A, then it's used again but on enemy B, will it disappear from enemy A like Jet Wheel would?

  2. #2

    Default

    Theorycrafting aside? I found the best DPS for hero isn't messing around with DoTs on talis, but going ham with the sword. That way you keep it simple and can focus on most important hero mechanics - counters and not losing hero time.

    And yes, the best combos are waver+waver+normal atk or rising+rising+normal, where you let rising go immediately after it starts but also let it slam the ground. If you run out of PP, just spam energy bullet or even normal attacks, which have only slightly lower DPS than PAs anyway.

    Brand New Star has rubbish single target DPS outside of counters. Also do note, while numbers on swiki look higher for talis, the weapon type tends to have significantly lower attack values than either sword or tmg.

  3. #3
    Filler-man!! _(:3」 final_attack's Avatar
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    Default

    The ※ symbol means "note", I think (look at description below dps table)

    Gonna answer a little, since I mainly use Tmg, occasional Talis, and barely Sword ..... when playing Hr before (limited by equipment at my disposal too)

    1 ) Yes, Moment of Trick have higher dps than Brand New Star for single target ..... unless it's a counter, which make Brand New Star better.

    8 ) Superb for gear building. Just Wise Hound if the boss is very mobile, add Jet Wheel if you think the boss will be near that AoE .... as for small mobs, might want to skip it.

    =======================================

    Also, the dps table didn't count headshot, right? Might want to add around 20% ~ 30% from the dps table for Tmg PAs if you can manually headshot.
    And, dps is just PAs power, not counting weapon power afaik
    - Ship 2 -
    Ghost - Between GuHu (Lv90 (current)) / Tmg Hr - Main
    明石篠 - all other classes - currently inactive Alt
    Personal note for Chain Finish

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks. I'm always using lockon though and you cannot get headshots with that.
    Cubey, what do you mean with "waver"? Vapor Bullet? It misses at close range though, which means to make it work you'd have to do something like start within melee range, then use the first to move away and use the 2nd to get close again so the 3rd sword normal hits. But that only works if the target doesn't move so most of the time you try this you'll end up out of melee range after 2 vapors and will have to to do something else like spam more Vapor (low dpp) or finish with Aura Shot.

    Though, apparently Vapor x2 > Aura Shot has pretty high dps as well (1473 compared to 1501 for the weakest version of Rising x2 > 3rd normal, whatever that actually is).

    But yeah, guess my main question mainly boils down to "what is the final dps comparison between the Rising Slash (time cancel so down swing happens right after sword juggle) x2 > 3rd sword normal combo and and the Racer of Edge x2 > 3rd Talis normal combo, adjusted for enemies generally having higher tech res than strike res and Talis having much lower attack than sword.

    And is there a way to use Vapor Bullet close to the target without it missing?

  5. #5

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    Try this out. Itís 3 frames longer but 100% PA notation. Pratically canceling the slash. ( though whether itís exactly 3 frames more depends on how good are with timing.)

  6. #6

    Default

    Yes,when I say waver I mean Vapor Bullet.Technically the PA is called vapor *of* bullet, but that's 100% Engrish. Whatever the name as long as we're both on the same page.

    Regarding hitting: there is a problem of the enemy possibly moving away which means they're not here for the third attack, but I almost never had problems with the PA missing its target. It sometimes happened when you're at point blank and do vapor + forward movement, but that's an awkward move in general and I don't recommend it. If you go to the side or backwards though, you shouldn't miss. You are locking on, right?

  7. #7

    Default

    Yeah, but I often got the issue of enemies moving a lot. And my ping isn't very stable so I can't do stuff that is frame perfect as the timing will differ every time I login.

    I tried some damage test on my own. It wasn't very accurate but it still was useful. Using 1* weapons on SH Rockbear.
    Vapor combo was 11.2k, Rising Slash (with down swing) combo was 10.4k (a bit iffy cause one of 2 Rockbears was infected but I also derped and attacked slower) and the Talis combo (refilling pp with Talis and no switching to tmg) was an undisputed 22.4k.

    Literally twice as much as the highest on sword so even if it's inaccurate it's safe to say it's stronger.
    Not to mention if you double jump you are also not getting attacked much and since it has good range you don't have to re-position nearly as much.

    That's total dps over the whole fight which is better data than paper dps without weapon atk and disregarding important dpp which forces you to refill pp more often.
    Especially using the Rising Slash x2 combo I ran out of pp very fast and had to switch to tmg a lot. Since Talis pp refill is pretty good speed and Talis normals do decent damage (1140) so refilling with talis might be slower than tmg but still fast enough to be useful while also doing more damage than tmg normals.

    Still gotta test if switching to tmg and refilling with ja reload is higher dps total after all though.
    Would be great if someone could do a real test with frame perfect accuracy cause I can't do it.

  8. #8

    Default

    Sounds like you weren't attacking the rockbear's head with the sword. I just checked both weapons and the damage was more or less the same - 34k dps with ungrinded vita weapons. Used vapor x2 -> weapon action, and racer x2 -> normal respectively.

  9. #9

    Default

    True.
    And thanks, at least now I know that the talis combo wins (cause of dpp and range).
    Did you stay on Talis and refilled PP with it or did you switch to tmg and then back to Talis.?

    I was unable to only hit Rockbear's head cause I used the version of the Rising Slash combo where you cancel after the down slash.
    Did you use the combo where you only juggle the sword during Rising Slash? I heard both, that this combo is better than the downslash version and that is weaker. So I am pretty confused about these tbh.

  10. #10

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    I didn't run out of PP. If you do and the boss is still there, attack normally. Reloading TMGs is for cooldown phases.

    I didn't use rising slash on rockbear for the same reason you mentioned - weakpoint too hard to hit. The downslash version is superior to only juggling, but both are good for low targets such as the dragon's legs.
    For higher or quick moving targets, vapor is much more reliable.

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