What do you want EP6 to get right?

**Flaoc** · Apr 10, 2019, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by Suirano

Personal grumping here but still slightly miffed tho that the end room bosses in Free Field weren't lvl 85. I miss the old days of fighting them to their themes and it lasting a little bit and them not dying in 10 seconds.

well xh rodos being lvl 80 instead of 85 is great since with 15* its much faster to do multiple char rodos with xh since way less traveling and no risk of trash map

**Dark Mits** · Apr 10, 2019, 01:41 AM

Counter-argument: If boss HP should scale according to number of players, then rewards should also scale accordingly. Solo clear should just give a moderate amount of meseta, the boss's meat for Franca, and CO completion status. No rares, no disks, nothing. The more players participating, and therefore the higher HP, the higher number, quality and rarity rewards.

Do not forget that because some content is soloable, it does not mean that soloing should be encouraged; it should be a lower-reward alternative. This is a multiplayer online game. Soloing should be allowed so that players can progress at a slower pace without having to adhere to a schedule of when everyone else is online. Soloing should not be the most efficient way to progress and be rewarded.

**ArcaneTechs** · Apr 10, 2019, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Mits

Counter-argument: If boss HP should scale according to number of players, then rewards should also scale accordingly. Solo clear should just give a moderate amount of meseta, the boss's meat for Franca, and CO completion status. No rares, no disks, nothing. The more players participating, and therefore the higher HP, the higher number, quality and rarity rewards.

Do not forget that because some content is soloable, it does not mean that soloing should be encouraged; it should be a lower-reward alternative. This is a multiplayer online game. Soloing should be allowed so that players can progress at a slower pace without having to adhere to a schedule of when everyone else is online. Soloing should not be the most efficient way to progress and be rewarded.

I shouldnt have to be forced to play with others for maximum rewards, being able to clear the content solo fast or slow should allow the same amount of loot, leave the rates alone, so its actually rewarding. I don't view this from the casual point

**Dark Mits** · Apr 10, 2019, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by Kril

I shouldnt have to be forced to play with others for maximum rewards, being able to clear the content solo fast or slow should allow the same amount of loot, leave the rates alone, so its actually rewarding. I don't view this from the casual point

Which I agree with. This is where non-scaling HP on bosses comes into play. More players means boss dies faster, less players means boss dies slower. The scaling of enemy numbers with number of players also serves this purpose: More enemies -> more exp/loot in the same time frame.

By the way, having 2 players in most Free Fields and ARKS Quests also doubles the numbers of bosses in the final arena, and also adds trash. So in effect, there is some HP scaling.

**Sriracha X** · Apr 10, 2019, 08:22 PM

If there is anything I really, really want, it would be the option to zoom out the camera more than what is allowed (and extend this to TPS-mode camera). I'm convinced the camera is one of the hardest things to fight in the game. I miss that old Arks Mod program because it would let you do just that.

**Suirano** · Apr 13, 2019, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Mits

Which I agree with. This is where non-scaling HP on bosses comes into play. More players means boss dies faster, less players means boss dies slower. The scaling of enemy numbers with number of players also serves this purpose: More enemies -> more exp/loot in the same time frame.

By the way, having 2 players in most Free Fields and ARKS Quests also doubles the numbers of bosses in the final arena, and also adds trash. So in effect, there is some HP scaling.

The main thing I see a benefit with HP scaling is for players after something that isn't the current flavor of the week event. If there is something someone needs, say a Nemesis NT for Austere NT and there is no active event that drops it, they have to do Ultimate which can be difficult to do on your own basically potentially shafting you out of getting that weapon for the 15*.

Obviously for now, there are events happening but there has been many dry spells where people couldn't really get what they wanted because hardly anyone is running that content and its not certain that after "Road for Episode 6" what will happen with that ( I am sure UH will fix that knowing how things are tho ). For situations like that, I can see the scaling being useful. While yes, 12 players is faster, if you cannot get 12, it could add some benefit.

It is just a suggestion I had that I do not see Sega honestly implementing. People seem content with how things are handled with 12/12 field areas which is fine.

**mother clusterfck** · Apr 14, 2019, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Mits

I liked this huge post, so I will go full armchair developer and reply

Both yes and no. I feel that ECs are supposed to be pace breakers that exist to spice up content. Maybe Sega should have mini-EC style that is like a short message at the edge of the screen for stuff like kill 12 enemies, gather items, put the Lilipa in orbit etc, and the current one for EC of the Duel type.

Just let us change it to look like the triboost has expired msg in the options. But considering how often I asked, even begged Sega to do this and they didn't comply but implement a bunch of other suggestions I made it's probably sega-spaghetti code and directly wired into the way e-trials work and they can't change it without a huge effort or some other kind of bs. Cause from a software developer point of view a change like this should be trivial and cost at most 1 man hour or such.

Originally Posted by Dark Mits

I think XH areas are ok difficulty-wise. Don't forget that they are 12man content. 4man content is "designed" for solo and up to 4 members. The fact that we have been soloing 12man content so far wasn't because it was intended, but because we were simply too OP and Sega didn't bother to change that. Plus, we will have power creep again in the near future.

Point is XH free fields have been dead since a couple of weeks after each got introduced and never has filled again since, supposedly the high Elzelion spawn rate was only temporary but it still spawns relatively often and Apostolo spawns all the goddamn time.
I often do a bit of the XH free fields to finish up my triboost if it won't last until the boss dies in an eq. and Almost every time I get an Apostollo or Elze spawn within 2-3 minutes. Solo with only 3 friend partners it's a big effort and takes a lot of time, not to mention those bosses troll a lot and aren't very fun to fight, especially not solo.
Considering we got XQs, AQs, BQs and EQs to make an effort for big rewards a casual fun quest which still has decently tough enemies and some kind of neat reward but which you can solo with just 3 friend partners is very important so you aren't always stuck with the quests that can get very annoying very quick, all of which have some kind of pressure that can be a real bother and if it's just having to get a good pse burst in AQs to get as many capsules back as you spent.
Many people get pissed off by eqs etc but there is just no alternative now, just when I thought free fields finally are gonna fill that role now they are all like Enchanted Forest and a real bother solo.

Originally Posted by Dark Mits

Enemy damage is OP because healing is OP, not the opposite. If charged Resta needed 20 ticks to get you to full, -mates were not percentage based (or at such high percentage), lifesteal in single digit numbers per hit etc., enemies wouldn't need to be hitting you for values higher than your max hp to pose a threat. Not only that, but it would open up new tactics on how to approach content (do I evade to avoid damage which also means lowering my dps, or do I facetank to kill quickly and then recuperate after the battle? Do I heal in huge chunks when my hp drops to 30% or do I perform small heals every time I get to 80%? When is the best opportunity to time my healing actions for this boss fight? etc)

TBH it's nice this way, a welcome change from most other online rpgs where damage is usually a lot lower and you have very limited healing that fails hard the moment you get into a sticky situation (usually it's a cd that ruins it)

Originally Posted by Dark Mits

Also, Sega has realized that because of the current OP healing, enemy damage is no longer enough to deter us from trying to facetank. So because instakilling is too "unfair", they have made it so that nearly every single enemy hit is an interrupt or knockdown.

Sadly a typical bs Sega reaction from not understanding game development properly.
Getting interrupted and especially knocked down is annoying and frustrating as hell and greatly reduces the fun of playing the game. There are plenty other ways to balance this out but Sega don't know cause I can't imagine adding knockdown to so many attacks is really easier than just raising enemy damage by an arbitrary number. In an interview two Sega people, one of them the ep 2 or 3 director) even said they think Luther and Magatsu are the best bosses, despite Luther getting really annoying with the bs teleport (never good for enemies) that happens if you do not to little but too much damage (plenty other ways to give a boss fight depth and strategy other than going against the logic of games of dealing lots of damage to the enemies) and they even acknowledged it shows that Magatsu was created by junior developers but still think he's one of the two best bosses despite the nonstop lagging and glitching.

[QUOTE=Dark Mits;3461410]
People don't care to coordinate for PB because PB's contribution is minimal and unreliable in content where enemies dies like flies or teleport around the room. Hell, even just standing still for 10 seconds charging it and waiting for everyone else to use theirs as well is a greater performance bane than not activating at all. The only time I remember people coordinating its use was right before Dark Vibrace in Bug Queen EQ. If Sega changed PB damage to increase geometrically with how many players participate, then you'd see more people try to coordinate.[QUOTE]
Probably but jusging by how wide spread serious autism is among randoms I doubt it would be very useful without a premade group. The vast majority of randoms I meet can't even reply to "hello" or "lets do the boss now" even if they are Western or Japanese players and wether I speak English or Japanese.
You'd also think if you say something that a party member doesn't understand they'd at least manage something like "?" to show they didn't understand or tell you (in their own language at least) that they don't speak English but communication is basically impossible with most randoms even in expert.

Originally Posted by Kril

>run Enchanted Forest
>see TE
>they arent buffing
>theyre legit just wand smacking, dying, zondeeling only

Triggering me bro

Wait, you find tes that are actually using Zondeel? The majority of random tes I meet attack with Wand. The End. Seeing them use Zondeel is a lot rarer than shifta / deband.
Pretty much the only time random tes are reliably good is boss eqs, for other eqs it's a toss up and the majority of tes doing free field or lqs suck hard.
All if this in Expert ofc, I only do non expert if there if someone used an eq trigger.

Originally Posted by Kilich

Healing is a safety skill, yes. But I do think that slowing the game is needed, both to create mobs with more complex attacks/defenses that you can counter with movement, or by breaking their parts and giving players more breathing room and playstyles that benefit from teamwork.
Maybe its just me, but the current game is about dashing between spawns, that grew much more aggresive and often have quick knockdown and ranged attacks, that get insta-nuked and spending time in i-frames as you deplete hp of the damage sponges that mini-bosses and bosses have turned into.
And I miss ep 1-3 times where being fast and mobile was either skill, or a drawback.
Also, didn't limit break back then reduce your hp to 1?

Uh, you miss the times when melee was lucky to get a single hit on and only killed mobs every blue moon, when area bosses could die before you got into attack range? Moving fast is the only thing that makes melee viable in this game cause ranged classes can hit so hard. Especially Ep 2 was nothing but ra and fo killing everything and melee classes being perpetually late to the party.

Being able to move fast and far is essential and honestly is one of the defining characteristics of this game. I really don't get how people complain about that or about the fast pace, it's one of the main reasons PSO2 is a lot more fun than all other action rpgs.
The current speed at which a decent mpa (not even a great one) melts mobs and even bosses is truly absurd, often mobs melt in 1 second or even less but taking a couple of minutes for every mob or god forbid 5+ minutes like in Godeater or such would completely kill the pace and cause PSO2 to become a completely different and less fun game. There are other games with slow paced fighting against super tough mobs and PSO2 is intentionally different.
Hell, PSO1 was like that without a great party (with it was basically the same as PSO2 though).

Originally Posted by Dark Mits

Counter-argument: If boss HP should scale according to number of players, then rewards should also scale accordingly. Solo clear should just give a moderate amount of meseta, the boss's meat for Franca, and CO completion status. No rares, no disks, nothing. The more players participating, and therefore the higher HP, the higher number, quality and rarity rewards.

Do not forget that because some content is soloable, it does not mean that soloing should be encouraged; it should be a lower-reward alternative. This is a multiplayer online game. Soloing should be allowed so that players can progress at a slower pace without having to adhere to a schedule of when everyone else is online. Soloing should not be the most efficient way to progress and be rewarded.

No, not at all necessary cause kill speed skyrockets with more players. Even ult mobs melt in a couple of seconds with a full mpa but they take relatively long when solo.
Since a full mpa kills so fast the rewards are indirectly already going up a lot, you just can do the quest 3 times in a given time instead of once and thus get 3 times the drops and also 3 times the opportunities to get high end drops.

So, simply adjusting enemy amount and stats is perfect, allowing people to solo quests without it taking a lot longer and being a lot less fun. Like Omega Double is annoying as hell in a full mpa but I'd rather do real life chores that fight Omega Double with regular stats on my own.
Sega should just do what they did in PSO1, solo enemy stats were like 2/3 of the multiplayer stats. Take that as starting and ending points and fill the gap a bit more for each additional player after 1.
Same for the amount of enemies. Sega has started doing this, for example ultimate Amduscia is not actually a giant clusterf*** when you solo, but it's not implemented that often yet and I wouldn't count on it for mobbing eqs.
The problem is that 12 players is a lot and ontop of most people having to play with randoms cause it's not easy to fill an mpa with just team mates and friends for most people it also encourages a lot of players to leech or at least to not make an of effort even in expert.
Luckily Sega introduced 8 player quests but that can have some drawbacks like in Perpetual Madness, an awesome quest with a good mpa but unless the mpa is really good people lack the dps to kill that many lvl 85 enemies and atm it fails fairly often with randoms.
Would be great if there was such an option for seasonal eqs and some old bossing eqs / yamato, etc. (quest adjusted for 8 players).

**Dark Mits** · Apr 14, 2019, 04:58 AM