Phantom Class Discussion

[SteveCZ]

I'm actually at Thorn 5 now, hate me. Practically in the field, it's not that hard to get 10 - 13 extra hits compare to Thorn 2-3 for extra 15% more damage with a class like this, especially during Phantom Time.

With Thorn 6 though, the difference starts to get noticeable. 7+ is just impossible for me right now. Still trying to optimize the hit counts more than just relying dps on traditional combo.

Just addition, having Thorn 0 - 1 isn't really practical as well. Detonating marker isn't as straightforward as you think; you got to charge it, it has range, it doesn't explode instantly, and if you're in close range, there's a chance your weapon action hits other part of the body (if the enemy has it) and changes your mark there. The more you do it, the more busy you are doing this, when you're better delivering traditional combo during the time than just trying to find the best timing to detonate the marker, too often than you should.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

They have a foot note that says they based it on when the damage number appears, but that is affected by lag.

For Rose, there’s no guarenteed way to get 59. But if you are a step distance away, you might be able to reach it, miss some hits, or even get 74 frames. It completely depends on when your hit wants to register on the enemy due to where their hitbox might be.

So under normal circumstances, we're looking at ~1170 dps from rose sword, and a little less than 1k from butterfly.

With all things considered, looks like butterfly is the go to katana PA with certain other PAs being niche at best due to being more flash than function.

[ZerotakerZX]

I'm actually at Thorn 5 now, hate me. Practically in the field, it's not that hard to get 10 - 13 extra hits compare to Thorn 2-3 for extra 15% more damage with a class like this, especially during Phantom Time.

With Thorn 6 though, the difference starts to get noticeable. 7+ is just impossible for me right now. Still trying to optimize the hit counts more than just relying dps on traditional combo.

Just addition, having Thorn 0 - 1 isn't really practical as well. Detonating marker isn't as straightforward as you think; you got to charge it, it has range, it doesn't explode instantly, and if you're in close range, there's a chance your weapon action hits other part of the body (if the enemy has it) and changes your mark there. The more you do it, the more busy you are doing this, when you're better delivering traditional combo during the time than just trying to find the best timing to detonate the marker, too often than you should.

How much thorn one must have to be practical, but not being hated? 3-4?

[echofaith]

I'm actually at Thorn 5 now, hate me. Practically in the field, it's not that hard to get 10 - 13 extra hits compare to Thorn 2-3 for extra 15% more damage with a class like this, especially during Phantom Time.

With Thorn 6 though, the difference starts to get noticeable. 7+ is just impossible for me right now. Still trying to optimize the hit counts more than just relying dps on traditional combo.

Just addition, having Thorn 0 - 1 isn't really practical as well. Detonating marker isn't as straightforward as you think; you got to charge it, it has range, it doesn't explode instantly, and if you're in close range, there's a chance your weapon action hits other part of the body (if the enemy has it) and changes your mark there. The more you do it, the more busy you are doing this, when you're better delivering traditional combo during the time than just trying to find the best timing to detonate the marker, too often than you should.

I thought about this too and I agree. Basically, detonating the Mark itself is a DPS loss compared to the regular loop. Of course the detonation more than makes up for it, but it would be better to Detonate 1 mark for 600k in 1 minute, than detonate 3 marks for 220k in the same time. The real numbers wont be like these, because pass level 3 Thorns the cost/damage ratio gets worse, but there should be a sweet spot.

[SteveCZ]

How much thorn one must have to be practical, but not being hated? 3-4?

dps wise of it alone theoretically is best at 3. If you are in doubt or just want to be done with the tree, take 3.

[megaphone]

So I added marks and thorns to my rifle sim sheet. Turns out thorns actually is best at 3, but it's unfortunately only just over a 1% DPS increase.

Thorns at 0

Spoiler!

Thorns at 3

Spoiler!

Thorns at 4

Spoiler!

The "dps at 0 ppps with marks" column on the right side is the sustained DPS of the rotation. Doesn't include bullseye yet since I don't know quite how much mark value it gives, so the values are a bit lower than they would be in reality.

[Reilet]

a little less than 1k from butterfly.

Damage numbers appear 10 frames after the hit actually registers (with jp ping speed). I also have it at 75 which is when the last hit registers, but honestly, I wouldn't expect anyone to be frame perfect with that. So if we go based on what swiki has minus 10, it should be around 1050 dps.

[KaizoKage]

So I've got a question. Should I get/max Attack Jellen? Im having my doubts

Also should I get Mark PP, Drain Mark Heal and/or Chase Mark Boost?

[Zulastar]

Turns out thorns actually is best at 3

Understood, planned it from the start. Now need to decide what to do with Jellen skills and I'm done with skill tree.

So the question is: Jellen skills or put all these points into PP max?

[Sriracha X]

So I've got a question. Should I get/max Attack Jellen? Im having my doubts

Also should I get Mark PP, Drain Mark Heal and/or Chase Mark Boost?

I had Attack Jellen maxed and put points into Mark PP Drain and Mark Heal at first, but after resetting I just put 2 points into Attack Jellen and none in Mark PP Drain/Heal.

I find that even at 3%, you'll still put Jellen on an enemy that will live past a few hits quite easily and I find that Mark PP Drain/Heal would only apply in mobbing situations. You can get PP back easily enough from detonating a marker and if you need health, just cast Megiverse/Resta and you're done, so they seemed useless.