Phantom Class Discussion

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Spread needle's AoE is separate from normal attacks, so in an AoE situation the PAs would still be stronger, unless you're fighting weak mobs. The spread shot is mainly good for the insane pp recovery in those situations. Rifle doesn't really have a high damage, fast, safe, single target damage option. Most of its PAs are for utility and AoE situations. A lot of its PAs are best used for building marks quickly rather than direct damage against bosses.

I'm not talking about the counters or marks, I'm talking about using the same techs or PAs on the same group of enemies without killing them and going from like 10-15% of fully charging the gear to like 2-5% after a couple of attacks. That's way too big of a difference to account for one or two enemies dying, or being missed.

Quick Cut recovers 20 pp and goes really far, so it's good for bosses that run around a lot. Escarlata is probably right about the dps though.

What is rifle' s best source of single target dps after 4-lock strife anyway? Is it normals? Should I use this calming intent I've been sitting on already?

I'mstill waiting to see the dps of rifle' s 123 on a chart

[Batty]

my only issues with Katana is that some of its skills are either a bit slot or lock you in place, if Sega were to balance the class in the future i would love these changes

- make the JA circle for alternative PAs to appear inmediatly the moment you click, waiting for the slash to start before triggering it should be optional or for quick cut purposes.
- speed up the sheating process of Shemetterling and Rose Schwert so that the quick cut window happens sooner
- increase movement distance allowed of Wolkenkrazter to make it similar to the distance you can move on the final slash of Hr Rising Slash
- Allow free movement while using Folter Zeit, just like Hr Rising slash

those are my opnions for improvement for ph katana, for a start.

[megaphone]

What is rifle' s best source of single target dps after 4-lock strife anyway? Is it normals? Should I use this calming intent I've been sitting on already?

I'mstill waiting to see the dps of rifle' s 123 on a chart

I posted a chart a page or so back with sims of all of rifle's PA rotations, fyi. I'd post it again now but I'm not at my computer.

The best option on paper is strafe with at least three locks, followed by normal nachtengriff, followed by shifted nachtengriff, but in practice consistently locking 3-4 targets in 32 frames isn't really doable, so for single target it's basically just nachtengriff. Both variants are about 20% better than normals iirc.

[ArcaneTechs]

While we're at it, all Phantom Pa are in German.

fully aware theyre German I just didnt have the proper name spelling on hand when i posted (and im never going to translate the names to english so ill just stick to the German names)

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I posted a chart a page or so back with sims of all of rifle's PA rotations, fyi. I'd post it again now but I'm not at my computer.

The best option on paper is strafe with at least three locks, followed by normal nachtengriff, followed by shifted nachtengriff, but in practice consistently locking 3-4 targets in 32 frames isn't really doable, so for single target it's basically just nachtengriff. Both variants are about 20% better than normals iirc.

Ugh, I messed with it, but that PA just feels impractical.

I'm not the only one thinking katana could use a boost to not be totally outdone by techs am I?
Feels like quick cut/shift PAs especially need a boost when they're comparable to just using butterfly over and over assuming the chart is right.

[GHNeko]

Because apparently this is a thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeD6...ature=youtu.be

oh that video

yeah seems fine to me nothing to nerf move on

[XrosBlader821]

I'm not talking about the counters or marks, I'm talking about using the same techs or PAs on the same group of enemies without killing them and going from like 10-15% of fully charging the gear to like 2-5% after a couple of attacks. That's way too big of a difference to account for one or two enemies dying, or being missed.

Yes, that's what my "its just a coincidence" comment was about. I check people's runs on Phaleg and the Gear never receives a boost when they switch Weapons (nor does it start out with 10~15% then drop to 2~5% like you are saying).
Gear accumulation only speeds up When dodging and countering and that also the only gear acceleration that I was able to replicate (not only that but the original post where I said there was no Gear decay was replying to someone who said he couldn't speed up Gear the same way you do on Hero which you completely ignored).

[escarlata]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C4F3FcSdWE

Fastest katana phantom video I found. Pretty sure there are faster ones though, but I cant find them

[Kondibon]

Yes, that's what my "its just a coincidence" comment was about. I check people's runs on Phaleg and the Gear never receives a boost when they switch Weapons (nor does it start out with 10~15% then drop to 2~5% like you are saying).

It's barely noticeable against a single target, I'm talking about in mobbing situations where you can hit large groups of enemies with a single attack. You get a massive chunk of gear the first time you do it, but it decreases each time, even against the same mobs. I could be wrong, but the difference is way to big to account for one or two mobs not being hit the second and 3rd times.

Gear accumulation only speeds up When dodging and countering and that also the only gear acceleration that I was able to replicate

I never said anything about speeding it up, unless that's actually what happens with Hr and I'm mistaken, but I was just talking about the decay anyway.

(not only that but the original post where I said there was no Gear decay was replying to someone who said he couldn't speed up Gear the same way you do on Hero which you completely ignored).

Because it wasn't relevant? I know there's no way to make gear gain increase, I was just saying that it looks like there IS gear decay for using the same attacks too often like Hr. Unless something else is causing it. I'll check again though.

EDIT: I went ahead and tested it some more, and I think I know where the confusion is coming from. There IS decay on gear gain, I don't know if it builds up exactly the same as Hr's but it's definitely there, and REALLY obvious if you spam an AoE attack on zondeeled mobs in XH with a 1* weapon. However, it seems like either using your charged weapon action, or bursting marks (probably the latter), resets it instantly, so you don't need to change weapons.

[SteveCZ]

curious, how often are you guys benefiting or just overall use of Quick Cut? I'm considering on dropping it from my tree just because I almost never use it when doing combos etc. it makes me wonder whats the point to it when it takes awhile to even trigger (when i can be doing other combos instead) and kinda of seems to work the best with シュメッターリング (Schumetring?) with just rolling, quick cut, rolling.

If you wish, you can create a new tree for raid bosses or single target enemies cause they're mostly Schmetterling, Folter, and Rose anyway, where you can drop that Quick Cut. Keep hugging the target as much as you can with Ramegid turned on, and do step counter as much as you can. Note though, as far as I experience it, in case of Masquerade for example, Katana still can't beat Rod by far in almost every aspect.

Then the other tree for field-like tree cause Quick Cut is good for mobbing I guess so far for me, it splashes quite huge damage and has a quite wide range, and its follow up shifted PAs are mostly mobbing PAs which give huge damage too. Since the enemy dies quickly anyway, rifle and Rod are already doing the job properly. But if the enemies are tough (Ultra Hard, maybe?), I think mobbing with Katana (and thus, Quick Cut) may benefit a lot.

It's only one point and if you only do LoT 3 you can get anything needed anyway. It doesn't really matter if you just take it, imo.