Phantom Class Discussion

[megaphone]

Is the DPS really so bad that they aren't even worth it for marker generation?

Marker generation is only useful for damage, so yes. And someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think PAs have different gear generation values like they do for marks, it's probably based purely on damage.

For a single target I use mostly Nacht SA or Kugel SA, but if I just spam these two without adding N3 in chain building a mark from Blue to Purple takes almost forever... Just spam normals even without JA build a mark quick enough, but overall dps'll suck.

Normal nachtengriff builds marks really quickly and is rifle's best DPS option to begin with, you should be using it as often as you can. And you want to be throwing normal 3 in whenever you can anyway for pp regen.

I don't know how you can talk about PAs with bad DPS then say you use Shifted Strafe either. It takes forever to prime and doesn't do that much damage

Shifted strafe actually has the highest DPS of almost anything rifle has, nearly twice as much as normal nachtengriff, is AoE, and stuns. If the mobs are going to live long enough for it to actually go off you want to be using it as often as you can, though it does compete with kugelsturm a bit since the positioning requirements are so different.

[Kondibon]

Marker generation is only useful for damage, so yes. And someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think PAs have different gear generation values like they do for marks, it's probably based purely on damage.

But if you're building marks faster then you're using them more often, do you have numbers or something I can look at, particularly in relation to the marker generation values? I've been confused about that anyway.
And the gear gain works like Hr where you have gear gain decay for using the same attack multiple times. The decay returns to normal over time, but it resets instantly if you burst a marker, so you'd be throwing them out for the same reason you throw out talis PAs on Hr.

Shifted strafe actually has the highest DPS of almost anything rifle has, nearly twice as much as normal nachtengriff, is AoE, and stuns. If the mobs are going to live long enough for it to actually go off you want to be using it as often as you can, though it does compete with kugelsturm a bit since the positioning requirements are so different.

I can't imagine any situation where shifted strafe does more dps than nacht or kugelsturm, considering it's on a delay that's just long enough that you can't spam it, and it does about as much damage as a single normal. It's not terrible in AoE situations, but I really don't understand how it could possibly be the best DPS when it's doing normal attack damage but slower. Is this coming from experience or just looking at the numbers because the dps something has on paper isn't always practical. Sure nacht has high dps for example, but it requires really specific positioning and moments of safety to maximize.

Or I guess a better question would be, what is it you have to do to get good dps out of shifted strafe? Am I just using it wrong?

[TakemiShinnosuke]

Some of us may know the boss mob's attack timing etc etc but at such close range , how do you dodge stuff ?

[Kondibon]

Some of us may know the boss mob's attack timing etc etc but at such close range , how do you dodge stuff ?

You answered the question yourself. Learn the attacks and dodge them like any other class.

[milranduil]

Some of us may know the boss mob's attack timing etc etc but at such close range , how do you dodge stuff ?

fight the boss on a lower difficulty, and practice watching tells and countering without using the counter attack (just the step). as with becoming skilled at anything, the key is observation and repetition

[TakemiShinnosuke]

You answered the question yourself. Learn the attacks and dodge them like any other class.

no I mean dodging at range and dodging at almost near zero space is hard.

range characters can dodge easier esp in EQ because they see the stuff incoming. But when you are that up close how ??

[milranduil]

no I mean dodging at range and dodging at almost near zero space is hard.

range characters can dodge easier esp in EQ because they see the stuff incoming. But when you are that up close how ??

a specific example would be helpful to show what you're referring to. nearly everything in the game has a visual tell or wind-up

[megaphone]

But if you're building marks faster then you're using them more often, do you have numbers or something I can look at, particularly in relation to the marker generation values? I've been confused about that anyway.
And the gear gain works like Hr where you have gear gain decay for using the same attack multiple times. The decay returns to normal over time, but it resets instantly if you burst a marker, so you'd be throwing them out for the same reason you throw out talis PAs on Hr.Or I guess a better question would be, what is it you have to do to get good dps out of shifted strafe? Am I just using it wrong?

Here are the numbers:

Spoiler!

I'm assuming based on Reliet's sheet (which is where I got the base numbers) that strafe's mark accumulation is per PA use and not per target, so it actually has worse mark accumulation than shifted nachtangriff, and much worse accumulation than normal nachtengriff. And while the on-paper damage is good, 32 frames is too short to reliably lock 3-4 targets in my experience, so in practice the numbers are much lower.

And something to keep in mind is that while phantom time is obviously a significant DPS boost from all the extra markers, it's nowhere near as large a boost as hero time, and the finish for rifle has about the same DPS as nachtangriff. So taking a DPS hit to build gear faster isn't as worthwhile on phantom as it is on hero.

Or I guess a better question would be, what is it you have to do to get good dps out of shifted strafe? Am I just using it wrong?

It's not that you're getting good DPS out of it per se, as you pointed out you can't spam it. It's more that its execution time is so short that if you're in a position where you can use it you should. With the weapon action it's damage is about the same as a normal 3, but it's 15 frames shorter than a normal 3, which gives it the highest DPS out of any of your PAs on paper, besides strafe with 3 or more targets.

Like I said, positionally it competes with kugelsturm, so you don't want to be going out of your way to use it. Just be cognizant of when you can use it, because opportunities do arise.

[ArcaneTechs]

no I mean dodging at range and dodging at almost near zero space is hard.

range characters can dodge easier esp in EQ because they see the stuff incoming. But when you are that up close how ??

Dude just dodge, are you new to this game or something?

[TakemiShinnosuke]

a specific example would be helpful to show what you're referring to. nearly everything in the game has a visual tell or wind-up

and yeah I blocked/added someone to the igonore list for the first time lol

Well I mean zero range as in you see the stuff incoming but at zero range its hard to dodge