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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    I feel like everyone saying this doesn't actually understand why that happened. Hr, and by extension future "advanced classes", were SUPPOSED to be better than the base classes. The buffs happened because players didn't like that idea. So instead, they moved in the direction of trying to keep all the classes relatively even again, but because they were designing content around Hr, that meant buffing the other classes, not nerfing Hr.

    While there's still a possibility Phantom might end up a bit overpowered, It's unlikely it's going to approach the same gap as Hr's initial release because Phantom was likely designed to be on par with Hr from the start, even if they never buffed the normal classes.

    EDIT: It's still probably gonna be FOTM, but that'll happen anyway, just because it's the new shiny. I think Su is the only class that didn't have that happen on a large scale simply because a lot of people didn't like the concept. That might just be the english community though, I don't remember.
    Yeah it's just very unlikely Phantom will be super broken. Also from people around me, a lot of people were mostly put off by the gearing effort SU used to take on top of the vastly RNG nature of egg/candy drops. Naturally, this got solved over time but it led a lot of people to just touch it and forget it. Of course the fact it plays and operates completely differently from other classes played a big part too (I personally think it was a welcome addition but opinions). Hopefully Phantom also brings new unique gimmicks to the table

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    So instead, they moved in the direction of trying to keep all the classes relatively even again, but because they were designing content around Hr, that meant buffing the other classes, not nerfing Hr.
    This was definitely what the issue was.
    I feel that if they had released 3 Advanced classes at the same time (like they did with Master Types in PSU), there wouldn't have been that big of a backlash since it wouldn't feel like everyone had to play the same class to be able to play the newest content properly.

    That said, I am hoping that there is less of a lean toward S-ATK on this class than there was on Hero, and that all the weapons are equally useful over extended periods of time.
    Last edited by Anduril; Oct 31, 2018 at 10:35 AM.

  3. #43
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    it was mostly just that hero was the perfect storm of bad ideas wrapped up neatly into one little bundle.

    every class had damage on par with hero, but their problem was actually getting to do that damage - hero was able to get to everything first then wipe it out with powerful aoe attacks because they gave sword everything it needed to be a powerful single-target weapon as well as a powerful crowd control weapon.

    the second fault lies on the fact that sword was so powerful; their most powerful weapon being a weapon that already existed and coming out after qliphad days meant that people very likely already had a qliphad sword prepared, and many power users had a 200+ attack affix on it. add on people already having striking units and every last piece of the puzzle fell together for the sheer stupidity we saw.

    regardless of if their first displayed weapon is partisan, rod, or an entirely new one in scythe, as long as they don't do anything as utterly stupid as having vapor bullet and flash trick available on the same weapon it'll likely work out fine.

    i still want it to be wands, though.
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anduril View Post
    This was definitely what the issue was.
    I feel that if they had released 3 Advanced classes at the same time (like they did with Master Types in PSU), there wouldn't have been that big of a backlash since it wouldn't feel like everyone had to play the same class to be able to play the newest content properly.

    That said, I am hoping that there is less of a lean toward S-ATK on this class than there was on Hero, and that all the weapons are equally useful over extended periods of time.
    God no, do people really don't get what's wrong with advanced classes? Everyone used the average MPA composition just to show how ridiculous it has gotten.

    Hero in itself was extreme streamlining the class, it was like going from good old Win7 to Win27 and seeing that the update setting is now day later/on option instead of having actual choice there. Enough people still enjoyed their tree where they had limited SP and couldn't take everything relevant, even if Sega often failed them on that. They enjoyed having a choice of subclass, even if Sega often failed them on that front too. They would be fine with there being a more streamlined class choice where it's just damage on/off on tree and the RPG part is completely projected onto no grind no dps and big grind big dps axis. But they couldn't take Sega trying to remove them from the game as an intermediate period of game's imperfection.

    Advances classes can't exist as replacement of old classes. Old classes often have up to 11 PAs that are at times all useful, they often have depth accumulated over the period of alpha to release development. Hero has 4 PAs per weapon just to compare and you will be spending time mostly on Sword instead of doing the intended switching combos. People got used to their (completely different) playstyles and liked them, and no one can tell them that the class isn't fun because first you need to learn how to use it and it god forbids has some inertia in its movements or the PAs can miss their target.

    All in all 3 advanced classes or 4 or 5, even skipping over the obvious balance problems in releasing them all at the same time ,wouldn't have made people feel less like they are being forcefully kicked out of their homes. I would also like to say that Sega should fuck off with their idea of player canonically having each class maxed and so forcing me to "play" (dump keys/tickets into) something I don't enjoy or I don't even get to try the advanced classes.

    It seems that Sega somehow understood the whole deal, so Phantom can most probably count on a much more peaceful release.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by vantpers View Post
    ~snip~
    I feel I need to clarify what I meant. I didn't necessarily mean having Advanced Classes as we got with Hero which filled the niches for all three attack types, but rather as branching off from the specific attack types (which is also why I mentioned Master Types from PSU). It could have been something like streamlining the main aspects of the older classes that would be required to unlock them and adding some new gimmick; for example, the advanced Tech-based class could have skills that modified Tech behavior (like zero charge time) or added secondary effects based on the weapon type (like having support Techs automatically go off with certain actions when using Wand) while also adding things like PAs for Rod, Wand, and Talis, or adding a class-specific weapon.
    Sure it might still make people feel like they are being pushed out of their comfort zone, but it could also feel like actual progression instead of the piecemeal skills that got added on with lv85, which in and of themselves still try to push people to a certain build (like how Braver Combination has no use from someone who mains Katana as a Braver).

    But the point is moot, and I just hope that Phantom is fun to play.
    Last edited by Anduril; Oct 31, 2018 at 01:24 PM.

  6. #46

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    Yeah, I do hope that Sega learned their lesson, as unlikely as it is. At this point they should add a 'classic pso2' mode to shared ship lobby for players that enjoy low powerlevels and mobility for them and lower quantity, higher quality enemies. Because I do enjoy dueling with the occasional Flame Demon, or Ringada, its the 'here, have 10-15 mobs and a boss, or two, in every spawn' that annoys me.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anduril View Post
    (like how Braver Combination has no use from someone who mains Katana as a Braver).
    I just want to point a little thing, Braver Combination does have an use for Katana, It gives you 100% crit rate (50% from Katana gear and 50% from Braver Combination) so you dont need to spend points on crits

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyd Azakuya View Post
    I just want to point a little thing, Braver Combination does have an use for Katana, It gives you 100% crit rate (50% from Katana gear and 50% from Braver Combination) so you dont need to spend points on crits
    Based on the description:
    カタナギア解放中にバレットボウに切り替えるとクリティカル率が上昇し、カタナギア解放状態を維持するこの スキルはメインクラスのみ適用される。

    and this line from the swiki entry for it:
    バレットボウに持ち替えた状態のとき、クリティカル率が上昇する。

    the crit rate increase only applies when switching to Bow, but not back to Katana, unless there is something that I am missing where it just gives you a general +50% Crit Rate even after switching back from Bow.
    The only benefit to Katana is that switching to a Bow keeps Katana Gear from decreasing.
    Last edited by Anduril; Oct 31, 2018 at 04:40 PM.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anduril View Post
    Based on the description:
    カタナギア解放中にバレットボウに切り替えるとクリティカル率が上昇し、カタナギア解放状態を維持するこの スキルはメインクラスのみ適用される。

    and this line from the swiki entry for it:
    バレットボウに持ち替えた状態のとき、クリティカル率が上昇する。

    the crit rate increase only applies when switching to Bow, but not back to Katana, unless there is something that I am missing where it just gives you a general +50% Crit Rate even after switching back from Bow.
    The only benefit to Katana is that switching to a Bow keeps Katana Gear from decreasing.

    Yes, sorry, my bad, I thought that skill gave you 100% Crit because a friend told me that, and I never saw him give attacks without critics so I believed it, I guess he's just getting lucky and he thinks he has 100% crits

    I reseted my build just to test this and yeah, Braver Combination gives 50% crit only to the bow
    (I feel super stupid now because Im a braver main...)

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyd Azakuya View Post

    Yes, sorry, my bad, I thought that skill gave you 100% Crit because a friend told me that, and I never saw him give attacks without critics so I believed it, I guess he's just getting lucky and he thinks he has 100% crits

    I reseted my build just to test this and yeah, Braver Combination gives 50% crit only to the bow
    (I feel super stupid now because Im a braver main...)
    Default 5%, Fury Crit 25%, C Ring 20% + Kat Gear Release 50%= 100% Crit

    if you're not subbing HU then you're at a constant 75% crit rate, that skill you mentioned is just sharing the 50% Crit rate (and no Kat gauge reduct) with Bow, nothing more
    Last edited by ArcaneTechs; Oct 31, 2018 at 08:45 PM.

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