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  1. #21

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    I know, I know. He only said something to the extent of "as you all know, I'm sure, online game players tend to complain a lot" and he used that as a reason why actual work on PSO2 had not progressed much, because the team had to do plenty of balancing and surveys.

    The thing is, at some point you have to draw the line. PSO2 advertised saying "yeah this is sci-fi, futuristic, RPG" and people laughed and stayed all day in the lobby playing dressing dolls. "It's a combo based action game!" Players went and said "lol nope" and for a while players had the same PA on all slots and had to change weapon to access another PA. So Sega made a new meta based around that, and people went after something else in the game and invented the 14 dashes by mixing jump cnacels and lobby action cancels. So Sega invented a new meta with fast-travelling PAs on a few select classes and people bitched and moaned until we now all have the same kind of stupidly broken travel PAs.
    It's always the same process. "Hey we made a game" "NO this sucks change it all" - if you're not here to play the game that was advertised go somewhere else for crying out loud.

    Otakun > You go to a pizza parlor, you see the pizzas, you pay for a pizza and when you get one you complain because "Hey this sucks I thought there would be no tomato and no cheese and also I can't stomach the crust". You know what, pal? You're not getting a pizza. Get out of the pizza parlor and let pizza eaters eat pizza. You spent that money and that time fully knowing what was coming to you so don't come to me saying you're entitled to your money and time.

    It's one thing to see that the diavolo is bigger than the pepperoni and both cost the same prize so you feel cheated and you complain. That's perfectly fine.
    You can also complain when suddenly all the nice staff is changed to rude people and service quality dives down. That's very fair.
    But you can't go into a pizza place to order pizza and then complain that you actually got a pizza.
    I can only imagine the frustration of coming in to work and every day you read complaints about "My HU doesn't play like FO" or "TE/SU doesn't play the same as BR/FI so fix it" or "Where are my 14 stars dude? It's been 2 hours" etc. It's a thing to see "The new class is overpowered please do something" but it's another to have to change everything around because of endless complaints about virtually everything.
    Kimura being honest and saying "If we do that, we will simply lose money" was an instant meme and it's still thrown around every time he appears, to the point where the stream is unwatchable. I don't even want to know the level of the stuff he receives in the complaints department.
    And now we are in this room and it's awkward...
    Oserez-vous percer le mystère de la malédiction ?
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saffran View Post
    Otakun > You go to a pizza parlor, you see the pizzas, you pay for a pizza and when you get one you complain because "Hey this sucks I thought there would be no tomato and no cheese and also I can't stomach the crust". You know what, pal? You're not getting a pizza. Get out of the pizza parlor and let pizza eaters eat pizza. You spent that money and that time fully knowing what was coming to you so don't come to me saying you're entitled to your money and time.
    Good job missing the whole point of commerce. For one thing, you don't pay for a pizza before being able to see it. Never get delivery before? even they hand you the food first before you hand over the money. I don't even understand how you are far off from the point. Your analogy doesn't even fit with the scenario cause your point only fits for a one time exchange of goods for cash while this is a service.

    Using Uber is more of a proper analogy. As an example, lets say I use the service everyday since its cheaper to get to my home from work to use, seems fine for months but then the Uber drivers start getting more and more annoying, not dropping me off at the right spot, playing loud annoying music, talking politics when I don't want to and such, I tell Uber with reviews my concerns and yet I still keep getting bad drivers then they are no longer getting my money cause Uber isn't listening to the fact they have bad drivers. You get it now? Uber and their bad drivers are not entitled to my money cause they provide the service that I enjoyed before if they choose to not listen to my concerns.

  3. #23

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    Otakun > I think the bottom line is that you don't consider PSO2 as I do. To me it's a service that I seek. It seems to me that you see it a service that you're owed because you registered to play.

    I have a problem with your analogy: if you do use Uber, Uber 'is' entitled to your money. You pay for Uber service and it's bad -> give bad reviews, if your complaining is not listened to then you may stop using the service and Uber stops getting your money. You can't get the course done all the while insulting the drivers and dissing the company and then when it's time to pay simply go "nope, service was not good enough, I'm getting that ride for free". That's not how Reality works.

    That's kinda what people are doing with PSO2, but PSO2 is free to begin with. If you don't like it, you can complain. If you don't get listened to, there's nothing you can do except going away, but that's not what people are doing. People are downvoting streams and trolling reviews and harassing the staff and the other players because they think they're entitled to see things changed as they see fit. When SEGA obliges, they complain more, about other stuff. And when Sega complains about the endless (and seemingly baseless) complaints, somehow it's still their fault? Come on.
    Oserez-vous percer le mystère de la malédiction ?
    www.hinamizawa.fr

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilich View Post
    Makes me wonder what was happening behind the scenes of Ep5 before its release. They must've known that Hero is way better in power and mobility than others and that a single mode with a single map can't last.
    About Hero they actually half knew.

    Subsequent to Hero release, they planned Hero's power being a bit above FI Ep5 start...Oh boi did they miss the mark. They did want Hero to be powerful, but didn't realize how its mobility is actually what made it broken. In terms of raw PA power, Hero did have a similar output to FI...but they forgot having range, mobility, Hero Time and so on completely tipped the scales towards Hero. It's a known fact SEGA doesn't quite understand some of their classes fully.


    BQ actually suffered from being a new concept, coupled with some bad design decisions. Original BQ was repetitive and had wonky rank/de-rank issues, match refreshes, fixed spawns, and so on. They did have in mind to progressively add more maps, tower layouts and so on, but had to scrap it to deal with the Hero mess. The reason I believe that to be the truth is Perpetual Madness EBQ. I mean just look at all the new enemy behaviors and ability to self-destruct, the amount of new accidents and events taking place and so on. The story mode BQ maps also were supposed to be whole quests with their own tower placement and waves. You can easily tell they actually planned to progressively add new BQ maps and features with each new Falz, but instead, just dumped all of them into a single EQ due to the backlash it received.
    Last edited by Zephyrion; Nov 24, 2018 at 04:20 PM.

  5. #25

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    So, the Hero class was actually the villain of Ep5.

  6. #26
    Hardcore Casual Dark Mits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPuddles View Post
    Haha, try number 3 because I'm bad at not ranting. I hope this isn't the case, they need to prioritize making less accessible content for this game. It's way too pandering, the entire game is just grinding out not rare drops and currencies so you can buy the good gear. Everyone shouldn't be able to have everything if they try to get it, it defeats the purpose of there even being a rarity system if nothing is actually rare, just expensive. They need to add things I don't ever expect to get.

    Edit: Saffran that's my point, actual players want sick loot and crazy challenges to strive for, shareholders want money. They would make a massive amount more money just off of the Scape Dolls and slightly higher RDR boosts if they made this game more focused on the hardcore gamers, than the no lifers and casuals. A majority of the player base either plays only this because they like Phantasy Star, or sits on this and doesn't play to look pretty. So many more people would be playing this if they knew of insanely hard bosses to fight and crazy rare drops. How they handle the content makes it seem pointless and extremely unappealing to anyone already playing a dozen other games with everything this has to offer. (Other than the great customization, never seen that matched.)
    Every single game that tried to make its content "prestige" by making it hard to achieve, with no option for the less focused player to see said content even in lower difficulty, ended up shutting down or going into maintenance mode. Check Wildstar for example. Or Rift. Hell, even World of Warcraft was forced to have easy mode because players left in droves when the devs made Heroic dungeons in Cataclysm (the 3rd expansion) require tactics and coordination, instead of just straight zerging (which was the "default" mode of dungeons in the 2nd expansion). Whether we like it or not, players who enjoy challenges are very rare compared to the vast playerbase, and they are definitely not the ones keeping any game alive. As a note also, WoW was considered to be an ez-mode Everquest when it was released, and the reason it was more successful than Everquest was exactly this accessibility and appeal to the (then) casual playerbase.

    Also indeed most vocal players act like whiny bitches. A player who enjoys a game or likes the content does not create threads about how great it is; they are actually playing the game. The majority of threads are from people who do not enjoy the game as it is, and want it to change to something more suitable for them. Add to that the sense of entitlement that a lot of people have ("I play this therefore I should be able to see 100% of content without having to put effort"), and the general meme "Anyone better than me is a no-lifer basement dweller, anyone worse than me is a ******ed noob".

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    even World of Warcraft was forced to have easy mode because players left in droves when the devs made Heroic dungeons in Cataclysm (the 3rd expansion) require tactics and coordination, instead of just straight zerging (which was the "default" mode of dungeons in the 2nd expansion).
    That is like the least named reason for why people left WoW after Cataclysm launched.

  8. #28
    Hardcore Casual Dark Mits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XrosBlader821 View Post
    That is like the least named reason for why people left WoW after Cataclysm launched.
    It's actually the most named reason, at least on forums, and with a comment from the then Lead Systems Designer, Ghostcrawler: "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. "

    Under that are the reasons (in no order):
    - I don't know who Deathwing is, but I knew who Arthas was.
    - Too little new content (only 5 new zones, compared to the previous expansions of 7 and 8 ).
    - Storyline is not cohesive
    - 10man raiding sharing lockout with 25man raiding
    - Old world changed, it destroyed the world as I knew it
    - Uldum (desert zone with ancient ruins and such) is just a giant Indiana Jones ripoff/meme factory
    - Vashjir (underwater zone with 3D movement) is hard to navigate

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodPuddles View Post
    Haha, try number 3 because I'm bad at not ranting. I hope this isn't the case, they need to prioritize making less accessible content for this game. It's way too pandering, the entire game is just grinding out not rare drops and currencies so you can buy the good gear. Everyone shouldn't be able to have everything if they try to get it, it defeats the purpose of there even being a rarity system if nothing is actually rare, just expensive. They need to add things I don't ever expect to get.
    Yet again, blame the casuals. You have both Eng & JP players who complain about grinding for hours on end for drop only gear and want a Collection File version of drops just so they can get what they want then say theres nothing to do in the game. Lose interest and stop playing because said gear was so readily available. Now I'm all for drop only gear thats GOOD and worth the hunt but hell, people are going to complain no matter what. Huge example is Demonia but im not running on a tangent about that series.

    You have Austere NT coming out, here are the following results you'll see here, your team, discord:

    - I can't get Austere NT because Sega made it impossible to get, screw these guys
    - I didn't farm the boosted UQs knowing fully well Sega did this to prep all of use on the inevitable Austere NT release
    - I ran one hour a day of UQ boost and dropped the game because muh RNG
    - I just came back to the game and I can't get said gear, once again Sega screwing over the "average" player
    - I ran for at least 5-8hrs+ a day and unfortunately RNG just wasn't on my side during these boosts weeks (the only real valid reason here)
    - I for whatever reason didn't and can't farm for Invade NT weapons to make Austere NT even though I'm on a team or too lazy to get good and just farm the solo version of the XQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilich View Post
    So, the Hero class was actually the villain of Ep5.
    you are literally several streams late for Ep5 problems man

  10. #30

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    i presume dev want player to move their main to adv class so they can make gameplay base on adv class but player refuse to do so that why every class have to got hero treatment
    Last edited by oratank; Nov 24, 2018 at 03:55 PM.

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