Famitsu Weekly 2/7/Dengeki PS 672 Scans: Nanoha Detonation collab

[ZerotakerZX]

There is a sort of "hypocrisy" in the Expert requirements and the general design of the game's hard content: Is it supposed to be a solo game where others are simply online, or is it supposed to be a multiplayer experience where you need to coordinate with others?

If it's a solo game with others online, then why create any non solo content? And for hard solo content (like the new UQ), why would Expert requirements exist?

If it's a multiplayer experience, then why is there nearly 0 inter-player interaction in 12/12 mpas? Seriously, the only time someone may perform something out of their action list is to use a Moon on someone else. Even TE's will rarely cast a buff unless it is about to expire on themselves. And in this case, shouldn't the requirements for hard multiplayer content be something that proves a player can work well in a group and not solo? Shouldn't the reason of grouping be that 12 players combined have significant more power / higher performance output than 12 players individually?

I think I've veered way off-topic and into a rant, though I do believe it's an interesting discussion on player philosophy and interaction.

YOu know what? This game sucks.

[TakemiShinnosuke]

YOu know what? This game sucks.

yeah , now which other game do you reccommend ( figured this was coming ) Mr/Mrs other game promoter ??

[Zephyrion]

There is a sort of "hypocrisy" in the Expert requirements and the general design of the game's hard content: Is it supposed to be a solo game where others are simply online, or is it supposed to be a multiplayer experience where you need to coordinate with others?

If it's a solo game with others online, then why create any non solo content? And for hard solo content (like the new UQ), why would Expert requirements exist?

If it's a multiplayer experience, then why is there nearly 0 inter-player interaction in 12/12 mpas? Seriously, the only time someone may perform something out of their action list is to use a Moon on someone else. Even TE's will rarely cast a buff unless it is about to expire on themselves. And in this case, shouldn't the requirements for hard multiplayer content be something that proves a player can work well in a group and not solo? Shouldn't the reason of grouping be that 12 players combined have significant more power / higher performance output than 12 players individually?

I think I've veered way off-topic and into a rant, though I do believe it's an interesting discussion on player philosophy and interaction.

It's just a format problem coupled with a language barrier and old habits. coordinating in a 12/12, even full organized mpa is hard, simply because too many people and you need to fill all the slots. Conversely, doing simple strats is pretty simple in most of the "hard" content because it's 4/4.
PSO2 is very ill-suited for massive raids or even 12/12 for that matter. I think 8/8 should be the upper limit.

Power levels vary too wildly between weapons, skill, skill trees and so on, so the more players you add, the wider the spectrum goes. Which is exactly why 4 man XQ fails at gating anything. For a relatively average player, it takes at least a party of 2/3 to clear, but upper limit can solo it without any issue. You could make the quest much harder basing yourself on upper limit and needing 4 fully experienced players, but you'd make Expert a very exclusive circle, which would be an issue because 12/12 quests are here and need a relatively big pool, and said quest makes the aforementioned power spectrum wildly swing.

And yeah PSO2 just never has really been a pinnacle of strategy or coordination. the most we ever had was like, freezing Vol's legs to kill his tail before he starts to go ham soooo. You can't promote interaction if interaction isn't needed in the first place. There aren't really ways to change that except make the upper dfficulties so hard coordination and planning becomes required (judging how Deus DPS check got nerfed to oblivion, it isn't likely) or give special mechanics that force some sort of coordination ( Dragon rematch and Loser got bashed several times because of Laconium and part puzzle into clock opening several times, so enforcing some form of coordination doesn't work either)

tl;dr PSO2 is pretty much mostly a solo game with multiplayer quests, and most coordinated quests are 4/4. It's just a game where you bonk things first and think after, which I think is fine. Not like anything will change because it's just far too late in the game's lifespan and implementing scooperation would warrant massive overhauls to pretty much everything (class and skill balance, overhaul nerfs, systemic changes, and so on)

[ZerotakerZX]

yeah , now which other game do you reccommend ( figured this was coming ) Mr/Mrs other game promoter ??

Battletoads, duh.

[Dark Mits]

snipped to save space

Agreed on everything 99%... except the part where we cannot have overhauls to the game. As Hero showed with EP5, we had a significant game changer: Mobility suddenly became of utmost importance for a while, then Sega tried to tone it down but it is still extremely important. EP6 may bring another game-changing mechanic, possibly those who played the class can shed some light on this.

It is entirely possible to make cooperation "meta" without making it mandatory and without changing game mechanics. Consider the following ways of improving player interaction:

-> Add additional PAs/Techs (or change the behavior of existing ones) to act like Ilbarta: uses from different players stack. The trick here would be to mathematically make it so that being solo and spamming it is not optimal, but being multiple players spamming it is optimal.

-> Add PAs/Techs that have 2-player component, for example: Zafoie: Implant a fire bomb on enemies. If enemies are hit by a Fire tech or PA with a fire-element weapon from another player, the bomb explodes for major damage. After 10 seconds the bomb explodes anyway at 50% power. Only one such bomb can be active per enemy (using it again just refreshes the countdown without causing an explosion)

-> Skill: Run with me - Target another friendly player. If the other player accepts the targetting (which will show like the "Press [E] to view event"), then both players start zooming around without PP cost at speed higher than zooming through Tokyo and deal immense damage to first enemies tackled. Player 2 can stop following Player 1 at any point, but then both players return to normal speed after 3 seconds.

Basically stuff that are not passive and just require proximity to others like Bouncer fields, but require the players to act differently depending on if there are others nearby or not.

[Lyrise]

-> Skill: Run with me - Target another friendly player. If the other player accepts the targetting (which will show like the "Press [E] to view event"), then both players start zooming around without PP cost at speed higher than zooming through Tokyo and deal immense damage to first enemies tackled. Player 2 can stop following Player 1 at any point, but then both players return to normal speed after 3 seconds.

I see you were inspired by The Simpsons Arcade game?

[Dark Mits]

I see you were inspired by The Simpsons Arcade game?

No, since I was not aware of the game in the first place. But I am not surprised, my ideas are definitely not original.

[Zulastar]

Here we go again: Expert problems.

I have an example for this: Past Mondey I decide to run Persona EQ right before leaving to the work in the morning (13.00 JST) and run in a bunch of Expert flagged fucktards. I had left 13 minutes boosts on so didn't had any spare during the fight.
But these assholes keep killing it whole 15! 15 minutes, Karl! While it can be killed by 6!!!

[ZerotakerZX]

Here we go again: Expert problems.

I have an example for this: Past Mondey I decide to run Persona EQ right before leaving to the work in the morning (13.00 JST) and run in a bunch of Expert flagged fucktards. I had left 13 minutes boosts on so didn't had any spare during the fight.
But these assholes keep killing it whole 15! 15 minutes, Karl! While it can be killed by 6!!!

Obviously you should stop working (and start carrying harder).

[Zulastar]

Obviously you should stop working (and start carrying harder).

I really miss a parcer sometimes 'cause I can't really tell how's good my dps is, but I swear myself to not use it any more.
So I dunno how to sqeese more from continiuous Second Edge spam with infinitie PP without stopping for WA.

But if you can't read I said already: normal groups kill it in 7-10 minutes, so your sarcasm didn't work.
Moreover you should go and train it somwere else far away from here.

When I see in group: 80+ lvl hunter, techer, bouncer or so, few summonners and Rising slash assholes, gunners without CT and rangers without WB e.t.c with shitty random weapons and units without affixes... ALL FUCKING FLAGGED EXPERT ON TOP SHIP CHANNEL I have my butt burning really hot.

Sega need to add Omega Mascuerade lvl 100 and 50 kills of Persone EQ as an Expert requirements already!