Armada of Demise Expert Mode Requirements

[dont_talk_to_me]

I seemingly can't do enough damage to finish Mother/Deus, let alone S-rank. My SuFi took over 17 mins to beat just Mother. 2x Pillow throwing, Synchro and Torim 14*s (The Higher Atki byrd, whatever it's called) and I was still struggling to do enough to break the arms in 1 Alter Ego. I feel like they gave the bosses 40-50+ milion HP each cuz I hardly dented Mother when she was downed.

As for Solo, the 1st boss spams attacks and I waste more than half my time trying not to get injsta-wiped by whatever Deus does. I use SuFI for this as well w/ Rykros Staff and 14 pets minus Rappy which is 13*.

I feel like people have no less than 6-7k attack on their characters and 7-8s affixes, soloing these 2 runs with ease.

Literally just to prove a point to some knuckleheads, I got the entire expert requirement unitless in about 20 minutes. Completely improvised, pretty much as a dare. My attack at that point had to be less than 4000, and yet I did mom/deus in about 14 minutes and the solo XQ in about 4. My weapons weren't anything special either; atra ex with 65 atk and a lightstream with 120 attack. Nothing extreme, and nothing like that god tier 300 attack units you people seem to imagine everyone but you has.

[the_importer_]

1) If everyone is good at something, noone is good. Expanding the sentence before, if everyone is good at something (for example everyone is at 90%+ of max performer), then the good ones are those at 95%-100% of peak performance, while those at 90%-95% are bad, assuming that we split the good from the bad in the middle.

2) If something can be cheesed, doesn't that mean that the test fails its purpose?
Would you like to have people who cheesed the requirements in your mpa, and drag it down with them performing at like 10% of you?
What if people do not want to cheese it but instead want to beat something like decent human beings?

3) For an adult human who is not suffering from some condition, it is not hard. Your question is not exactly on point, here's a more fitting question:
Do you think running 100m in 13 seconds is hard?

Perfect picture to go along with what you're saying:

Spoiler!

[vantpers]

Meanwhile in solo XQ, if you mess up even once on anything like Deus or Hunar, you're pretty screwed and have to start all 5 stages all over again. a complete restart from a single death is honestly stupid and doesnt resemble anything else in this game (other than a few rematch EQs which have a death limit, but those seem to have been done away with recently) because in literally any other situation if someone goes down, all I (or someone else) has to do is just press the button for a moon atomizer, an animation which takes less than a second and theyre back up right away. Theres no point in punishing death in expert req content if it isnt even punished in the "real" game in the first place In addition, this is a more small thing but full on focused aggro is rarely a thing someone is going to have to deal with in any situation in this game unless they're running something like war cry/brave hunter, so personally I feel solo content with groups of enemies focused onto you doesnt really represent any actual game content well either.

Fair point. We should implement more challenging content just add more natural death limit there by nerfing moon atomizers. I find it plenty stupid that when dying starts mattering all the skills like Reversal Field or atomizer production mag skills stop mattering and you might as well go to campship.Of course then we need a rebalance because suddenly an immortal build which does 20% less DPS might become the most braindead meta yet, but it's not like automate isn't doing fine outside of UH and even there.

Honestly I am tired of everyone and their mother wanting faster runs. People who are mediocre at the game by the definition of being the 50th percentile of player base or close get shafted out of expert and they complain that runs aren't as fast as they used to be and their precious triboost is running out and he has to be there next to 20th percentile player who's a horrible leech and etc. People who are in expert now still complain that the expert isn't good enough cause one time they ran each sector of armada once or only double dipped S1. At least the most casual of players sit quiet since their situation could've changed only for the better.

I am not having fun because Armada is still flashy and with little substance EQ where you're mindlessly killing whatever spawns and then dashing to the new spawn before even special effect density drops to visible levels. Even the AIS Vega boss fight is criminally short considering you can start it around :20 and should have 40 more minutes to play around.

[Dark Mits]

1) Ok, your point?

My point is that if noone can be good, then noone can be bad. Ergo your initial point was moot.

2) So your point is because the requirement is shit and hardly represent the proper skill level, that means sega shouldnt bother implementing it? Some people cheat in schools and qualifying exams and get away with it so does that mean we abolish the entire schooling/certificate system? If people dont want to bother cheesing it and want to beat it properly then go ahead and do it properly then. In fact, i have seen doing people that and isnt complaining about the harshness of the requirement and just practice their way to s rank so whats the problem here?

If school exams could be cheated to the degree that people claim that the Expert reqs can be cheesed, then you should be sure the school exam system would have changed after 1 iteration. Similarily, Sega saw that the initial Expert Reqs were not really doing their intended role, and so they changed them to something more fitting of their vision. They will again revise it, possibly in EP7 when the QQ about low-geared and low-performing people in Expert mpas becomes prominent again.

Also, I am not complaining about the harshness of the current reqs. In fact, I have complained in the past that the game does not test players enough, and that it only tests reflexes when it should also test memorization and resource management. If you can find that I have asked for more lenient requirements, please show my post and I will accept that I am a two-talking snake. What I am complaining about is the treatment of non-expert players as some form of inferior life species from some forumers.

I support the idea of better players acquiring better loot and at faster pace. In fact I support the idea of loot coming from cutting edge content like Deep Depths in Persona UQ, or massive scores in Endless, which would outperform equipment dropping in latest EQ or CF. This could even come in the form of titles, for example extra HP/Atk when reaching a milestone etc (like the class lvl75 t

3) 100m in 13seconds is hard for me now. But that equivalent to that in pso2 is endless 1 lap imo so...

But not for everyone. In fact it's expected to be faster than 13sec at 100m dash if you are simply fit, without even being an athlete. Age plays a factor of course, as well as what type of exercise you do. Which is not really that much different from the situation we are discussing now. If someone possesses the physical and mental state that is required for reflexes, and after undergoing sufficient training, they can fulfill the requirements. What is overestimated by people who claim that Expert Reqs are easy is how many people actually do posses that physical and mental state.

We are at the age of 15* weps, tradable actual decent 14* potential matching with 15* weps, rappy shine,handout hp armour phobos, guardian armour s1/2/3, tons of video doing sub 5runs on soloxq on way worse weps, tryhard sub 9 or meme runs like overend spam on goc and yet people still want to complain about it being hard and bitch paragraphs about it instead of taking it in stride and just treat it as a one time you actually need to learn to play the game. But i guess the bare minimum of 10 cm bar is really hard in year 2019 i guess.

If people did what you say and actually achieved this goal, then you (plural) would "increase" the height of the bar up to the point where it becomes impossible for you (plural) to surpass it as well. It's the same old thing I see in online games which is summarized in: "Everyone worse than me is a noob, everyone better than me has no life".

And seriously, who the fuck cares? This is a casual game, proven by the fact that the only requirement for every piece of content in the game is that you have the prerequisite level. It's almost as lenient as you can get for a lobby based MMO.

This pretty much is the best quote and thread closer for this discussion.

Perfect picture to go along with what you're saying:

Spoiler!

Exactly. It's not some sort of wisdom or mental gymnastics; it's pure logic.

[bhaal]

Can some one tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Spoiler!

What need next?

[vantpers]

Can some one tell me what I'm doing wrong?
What need next?

Latest solo XQ (Phanatical Phantoms or so it was translated I think), S rank.

[LordKaiser]

Why people think I'm complaining about expert reqs? All I want is another filter so there can be people in the middle so they can finish their quests well and get the gear that they need. Adding this would not hinder anyone who is currently on expert as not everyone enjoys long battles in solo quests.

[AVO]

My point is that if noone can be good, then noone can be bad. Ergo your initial point was moot.

If school exams could be cheated to the degree that people claim that the Expert reqs can be cheesed, then you should be sure the school exam system would have changed after 1 iteration. Similarily, Sega saw that the initial Expert Reqs were not really doing their intended role, and so they changed them to something more fitting of their vision. They will again revise it, possibly in EP7 when the QQ about low-geared and low-performing people in Expert mpas becomes prominent again.

Also, I am not complaining about the harshness of the current reqs. In fact, I have complained in the past that the game does not test players enough, and that it only tests reflexes when it should also test memorization and resource management. If you can find that I have asked for more lenient requirements, please show my post and I will accept that I am a two-talking snake. What I am complaining about is the treatment of non-expert players as some form of inferior life species from some forumers.

I support the idea of better players acquiring better loot and at faster pace. In fact I support the idea of loot coming from cutting edge content like Deep Depths in Persona UQ, or massive scores in Endless, which would outperform equipment dropping in latest EQ or CF. This could even come in the form of titles, for example extra HP/Atk when reaching a milestone etc (like the class lvl75 t

But not for everyone. In fact it's expected to be faster than 13sec at 100m dash if you are simply fit, without even being an athlete. Age plays a factor of course, as well as what type of exercise you do. Which is not really that much different from the situation we are discussing now. If someone possesses the physical and mental state that is required for reflexes, and after undergoing sufficient training, they can fulfill the requirements. What is overestimated by people who claim that Expert Reqs are easy is how many people actually do posses that physical and mental state.

If people did what you say and actually achieved this goal, then you (plural) would "increase" the height of the bar up to the point where it becomes impossible for you (plural) to surpass it as well. It's the same old thing I see in online games which is summarized in: "Everyone worse than me is a noob, everyone better than me has no life".

This pretty much is the best quote and thread closer for this discussion.

Exactly. It's not some sort of wisdom or mental gymnastics; it's pure logic.

Cheese is a strat. Except this time, the cheese require slightly more effort to execute compared to you can afk and stand in a corner like the previous 0 effort req. My problem is you and others thinking this cheese is equivalent to cheating and thus because of it expert req should be abolished. Solo xq and goc does test memorization by the mere fact that they didnt rng visual and sound cues. There is hardly any resource management in pso2 itself except for special cases weps like bow and partizan. And idk about you but all your suggestions for how expert should be implemented is way easier but i guess its not asking directly to make it easier.

The last time i ran 100m is probably 10 years ago so obviously i didnt give you a direct answer. And i did get a physical injury during that 10 years so whatever. I don't think its overestimation when we are doing a 1 year old quest with way better equipment and class balance to the point you can brute force it unlike endless where you cant 1 lap it through brute force even with gufi(controversial statement i know). This overestimation of skill requirement to clear expert req can be said the same for you.

Maybe the time will come where expert req will take me more than 1 day to clear. BUT at least i have a goal to work towards instead of lmao just rng some shitty drops 'goal' and bitch and whine about how hard the requirement is and ask for nerfs/quit game like some of the forum users/outsiders. I burned 50+ passes to get day 1 clear when it was just released and i will do it again because i hate my life.

P.S My stance on expert is i actually dont really care but my god the amount of complaints about it just make me want to shoot a few comments about it.

[Shinamori]

You know, you guys could watch videos on Youtube? That's how I passed it. As for mother/daddy. Take weak drink. Especially if you're a tech class. Meat Stir Fry helps too.

[Dark Mits]

My problem is you and others thinking this cheese is equivalent to cheating and thus because of it expert req should be abolished.

75% correct.
a) As you correctly say, I do consider cheesing to be a form of cheating, but that is tied to class/build balance. In the case that class balance cannot be achieved, then different tests have to be implemented for each class. I was supportive of the idea of another forum poster for Advanced Class Training specialized for each class respectively, and not just "click this to make this happen".
b) I support the abolishment of Expert Matching but for an entirely different reason; I am a strong believer that any form of player segregation should come from player themselves and not from automated tools. People should choose themselves who they play with, and not have it done by some tool, because as it is obvious in this case the tool doesn't do a good enough job. However, the guruguru playstyle of the game has cuddled us into not wanting to go the extra mile of organizing a run, especially when the worst that can happen is for a run to take double time, which is for most players by far a much better outcome than having to spend 1 hour beforehand to organize just an EQ run; 1 hour during which they could be enjoying the game.

The last time i ran 100m is probably 10 years ago so obviously i didnt give you a direct answer. And i did get a physical injury during that 10 years so whatever. I don't think its overestimation when we are doing a 1 year old quest with way better equipment and class balance to the point you can brute force it unlike endless where you cant 1 lap it through brute force even with gufi(controversial statement i know). This overestimation of skill requirement to clear expert req can be said the same for you.

My best run was 13.8sec about 15 years ago. Trainer then told me it was just a bit below average for my physique. Right now I'll definitely need over 25. But conversely, the speed at which I can type on a keyboard has doubled.

Without veering offtopic, my point is that we may be getting better equipment that allow for more mistakes and for more damage per action which reduces time spent in the XQ, but reflexes cannot really be improved substantially regardless of how much training you undergo; in fact it is accepted that they deteriorate as you age. You can have 20* equipment and 9999HP; if you need more than 1 second to react to enemy attacks you will still fail. And there is nothing wrong with that. At best you can hope for memorization to substitute reflexes by learning what enemy action will follow up, but even this can only help so much when combined with enemy randomness

Finally, the Expert reqs assume that people play solo with 3/7/11 other NPCs. It does not test coordination. It does not test if the player can react quickly to a teammate needing Sol/Anti or Resta/Star or Moon/Reverser. It does not test if a player can change their playstyle to take advantage of buff fields from BO or from an existing Zanverse. And other such cases which have proved to be not just equal, but even more important for smooth runs.