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  1. #1

    Default Armada of Demise Expert Mode Requirements

    Yeah, the problem is that there are a whole lot of us who are NOT leechers--I come to EQ's with a 7-slot 15* +35 weapon with 3 SSA's, two 5-slot Lightstream units, and a 5-slot Tag Bode, I am sure as Hell not leeching--but can't pass the new expert requirements yet, and Sega has essentially just given us the middle finger with this.

    Telling 60% of your player base that they can't have nice things because 10% of your player base are leeching jerks does not make for happy customers.
    Ship 2:
    Katarin: GUmarl. Lethal precision with a whimsical streak
    "Save the day and look good doing it. That's what this job is all about!"

    Alessandra: FInewearl. A hyperkinetic, photon-fueled mayhem machine.
    "Oho! I actually felt that! You must be pretty strong!."

  2. #2

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    It's called expert, not "my gear is good enough".

  3. #3
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwalker View Post
    Telling 60% of your player base that they can't have nice things because 10% of your player base are leeching jerks does not make for happy customers.
    So, I don't like the term "leech" being thrown around in this context either, but expert mode isn't a need or a "nice thing", that people are entitled to. That's the whole point, people don't want to have to carry as hard, and saying that it's not fair that there's even a basic requirement for expert mode is completely missing the point.

    If you think you're good enough to play with expert players then you should be able to complete the requirements. Especially with gear like that.

    EDIT: There's something to be said about how poorly expert mode actually does its job though, since there's nothing stopping someone from completing it and then using a class they're bad with or undergeared, or straight up actually leeching.

    Which reminds me. Leeching isn't about not being good enough guys, it's about intentionally not helping. Someone doing their best isn't leeching, even if their best is only 50% of everyone else. _(:3
    Last edited by Kondibon; May 30, 2019 at 01:56 PM.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceresa View Post
    It's supposed to only require either Sector 1 or 2 complete once to join Sector 3, is it not working like that?



    There's more to leeching than gear you know?

    I've seen enough corpses in UH expert as is that I wouldn't trust anyone who can't handle solo Phanatics.
    1) There is a difference between someone who is not a top-tier player and someone who is leeching. If you don't understand that, you're so far off into elitist-land that there is no reasoning with you.

    2). I have no problem staying alive in UH quests. It's not really that hard. The so-called expert match requirements have very.little to do with the skills you need to survive and succeed in normal content - even in UH. In my one run of this EQ so far, I died ONE time, right at the start of Sector 1, by getting one-shotted by something I thought was just background scenery and not an actual threat (which obviously something that will only happen the first time running the quest).

    3). My complaint isn't with the existence of expert match (I don't think it is a good idea in general, but that is off-topic),or even with the expert match requirements (though I think they do a very poor job of judging how well someone really plays the game). My complaint is with the design of the EQ being such that only players with expert match have a realistic chance of getting the drop rate boosts in Sector 3 from repeated runs, meaning Sega is basically cutting ~70% of the player bsse out of the good rewards. THAT is telling the bulk of your player base that you really don't give a damn about their experience.

    4). Of course I was running it in UH. What would be the point of running it in a lower difficulty? The whole reason to do EQ's is the reward, so why would I run it in a difficulty that doesn't offer the best rewards? Besides, I run Ultra explorations all the time and don't have problems there, even in non-expert MPA's.

    Am I one of the very best players out there? No, I'm not. But I'm not awful, either, and I'm not leeching. There are a lot of players out there like me who aren't "expert", but we put in the effort and we're decent players. The design of this EQ penalizes us for being that. That's all I'm saying.
    Ship 2:
    Katarin: GUmarl. Lethal precision with a whimsical streak
    "Save the day and look good doing it. That's what this job is all about!"

    Alessandra: FInewearl. A hyperkinetic, photon-fueled mayhem machine.
    "Oho! I actually felt that! You must be pretty strong!."

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwalker View Post
    1) There is a difference between someone who is not a top-tier player and someone who is leeching. If you don't understand that, you're so far off into elitist-land that there is no reasoning with you.

    2). I have no problem staying alive in UH quests. It's not really that hard. The so-called expert match requirements have very.little to do with the skills you need to survive and succeed in normal content - even in UH. In my one run of this EQ so far, I died ONE time, right at the start of Sector 1, by getting one-shotted by something I thought was just background scenery and not an actual threat (which obviously something that will only happen the first time running the quest).

    3). My complaint isn't with the existence of expert match (I don't think it is a good idea in general, but that is off-topic),or even with the expert match requirements (though I think they do a very poor job of judging how well someone really plays the game). My complaint is with the design of the EQ being such that only players with expert match have a realistic chance of getting the drop rate boosts in Sector 3 from repeated runs, meaning Sega is basically cutting ~70% of the player bsse out of the good rewards. THAT is telling the bulk of your player base that you really don't give a damn about their experience.

    4). Of course I was running it in UH. What would be the point of running it in a lower difficulty? The whole reason to do EQ's is the reward, so why would I run it in a difficulty that doesn't offer the best rewards? Besides, I run Ultra explorations all the time and don't have problems there, even in non-expert MPA's.

    Am I one of the very best players out there? No, I'm not. But I'm not awful, either, and I'm not leeching. There are a lot of players out there like me who aren't "expert", but we put in the effort and we're decent players. The design of this EQ penalizes us for being that. That's all I'm saying.
    Oh I see, if experts complain they're being matched with people worse than them, they're elitists. But if non-experts complain you're being matched with people worse than you it's fine, because it's those people that are the leechers. It's all so clear now.

    You're missing out on a drop rate boost, well so what. The rares can still drop, they can still be exchanged with medals. You're getting less because you put in less. If you don't like it then go take a half hour and clear the reqs.

    And really, the reqs are a poor judge of how you play the game? Don't die, clear it within x time. What's this EM want for your Sector 3 drop boosts? Clear it fast! You know what helps for that? Clearing fast. Not dying.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceresa View Post
    Oh I see, if experts complain they're being matched with people worse than them, they're elitists. But if non-experts complain you're being matched with people worse than you it's fine, because it's those people that are the leechers. It's all so clear now.

    You're missing out on a drop rate boost, well so what. The rares can still drop, they can still be exchanged with medals. You're getting less because you put in less. If you don't like it then go take a half hour and clear the reqs.

    And really, the reqs are a poor judge of how you play the game? Don't die, clear it within x time. What's this EM want for your Sector 3 drop boosts? Clear it fast! You know what helps for that? Clearing fast. Not dying.
    I'm never going to complain about being matched with someone who doesn't play at a high level of skill.

    I will complain about being matched with people who don't try. Which is to say, those who show up with vastly inferior gear, gear not ground, hell, I don't even care if it's not affixed, but at least grind it!

    Also those who literally follow the MPA around and don't actually fight anything, I will complain about.

    I just want people to make an effort, that's all. I recognize not everyone is going to be skilled. I don't think that's elitist.

    Back on topic: so you disagree about the boost, that's fine. We disagree. If you'd just said that at the start we could have avoided a lot of unnecessary going on.

    Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with the boost if non-expert players had at least a decent chance of getting it, even if the expert players could get more of it. If the quest was scaled such that non-expert players could get in two runs of each sector while experts got 3 or even more, it would bother me a lot less. But as it stands, multiple runs are out of reach for non-expert, which means they get no benefit from it at all.
    Last edited by Stormwalker; May 30, 2019 at 03:13 PM.
    Ship 2:
    Katarin: GUmarl. Lethal precision with a whimsical streak
    "Save the day and look good doing it. That's what this job is all about!"

    Alessandra: FInewearl. A hyperkinetic, photon-fueled mayhem machine.
    "Oho! I actually felt that! You must be pretty strong!."

  7. #7
    Hardcore Casual Dark Mits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwalker View Post
    I'm never going to complain about being matched with someone who doesn't play at a high level of skill.

    I will complain about being matched with people who don't try. Which is to say, those who show up with vastly inferior gear, gear not ground, hell, I don't even care if it's not affixed, but at least grind it!

    I don't think that's elitist.
    As is the common answer in virtually all online games, if you do not like the quality of people you get auto-matched with, then form your own premade groups with your own requirements. People like to ignore this suggestion because they have to invest effort and time in doing so, and they are not willing to do so; they expect others to do this job for them, even if it is an automated tool. Expert Matching from Sega is exactly one such tool, a reaction from the developer to sate the QQ of higher-performers who did not want in the absolute minimum to do any form of socializing in a de-facto multiplayer game.

  8. #8
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    As is the common answer in virtually all online games, if you do not like the quality of people you get auto-matched with, then form your own premade groups with your own requirements. People like to ignore this suggestion because they have to invest effort and time in doing so, and they are not willing to do so; they expect others to do this job for them, even if it is an automated tool. Expert Matching from Sega is exactly one such tool, a reaction from the developer to sate the QQ of higher-performers who did not want in the absolute minimum to do any form of socializing in a de-facto multiplayer game.
    This is bullshit for most of the content people complain about in PSO2, mainly EQs. You can't do them on your own time so, yes, organizing your own groups IS more difficult than it should be, because you have a limited time frame, and even if you know when the EQ is coming up, not everyone you want to do it with might be available. Especially since content is balanced around 12 players a lot of the time. Getting 12 players in most games is a "once a week raid time" thing, not something you do multiple times a day at preset times you have no control over, often with large gaps in-between them. It's completely unreasonable to tell people to "just" make their own groups with the way EQs work; They'd basically have to schedule their lives around it, instead of the other way around.

    That said, the most recent EQ is 8 man, and I'm pretty sure 4 really good players could probably do it faster than a full pug, and getting a single party together is a lot more reasonable than 2 or possibly 3 full parties.

    For reference, when have you ever seen someone complain about pugs for Endless? Heck, I barely even see people complain about pugs in guruguru quests, usually just making fun people dying a lot in UH.

    TL;DR: The EQ system isn't conductive of organizing your own groups on your own time.
    Last edited by Kondibon; May 30, 2019 at 03:21 PM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceresa View Post
    Oh I see, if experts complain they're being matched with people worse than them, they're elitists. But if non-experts complain you're being matched with people worse than you it's fine, because it's those people that are the leechers. It's all so clear now.

    You're missing out on a drop rate boost, well so what. The rares can still drop, they can still be exchanged with medals. You're getting less because you put in less. If you don't like it then go take a half hour and clear the reqs.

    And really, the reqs are a poor judge of how you play the game? Don't die, clear it within x time. What's this EM want for your Sector 3 drop boosts? Clear it fast! You know what helps for that? Clearing fast. Not dying.
    Couldn't have said it better than this.

    OP is complaining that expert players have an easier time doing multiple runs in sector 1 and 2 because we're all "expert" tier, but then says he's stuck in non-expert where it's "unfair" for drop rate? Surprise! It has been this way since launch of this game. Those who were "expert" clear EQs faster. Wild Easter is a perfect example. Non-expert XH you were lucky to clear it 3 times. Expert was 4-5 times every single time. Was OP complaining then? No, because they were benefiting off the expert MMing.

    If you are unable to clear the current expert requirements, YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF CONTRIBUTING AT AN EXPERT LEVEL, AND THEREFORE YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BENEFIT OFF OF THOSE WHO CAN.

    Period.

    Also, How in the world are the current expert requirements NOT a good indicator of being in expert mode? What exactly do you think Expert mode should be? People who have played the game for 3000 hours? People who THINK they are good enough?

    Expert in this game = "I do lots of DPS quickly and I don't die."

    That is all it takes to be expert in this game. There is no secret formula other than this. If you can't do enough DPS fast enough while also not dying, then you simply are not expert level, and therefore in an EQ designed around clearing content quickly for more RDR, you do not deserve to gain the same amount of stuff as those who in "expert" mode.

    This whole thing is like complaining that people who are better than you in Endless get better rewards. Well, yeah, because that's the nature of the game.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrYukito View Post
    Expert in this game = "I do lots of DPS quickly and I don't die."
    More like do like either do lots of DPS or don't die but not necessarily at the same time. Source: my dead body

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