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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by reaper527 View Post
    the fact of the matter is that keyboard gives you MUCH quicker access to a lot of things. i don't have to screw around with toggling my active subpallet item before casting something from it. i can also quickly swap to any of my 6 weapon layouts with a single key press rather than scrolling through them (and in addition, i can have it automatically change my active rings and subpallet when i change weapons on a keyboard by mapping my numpad to autowords for /mpal#. /spal# /sr RingName)

    that's not user error, it's a less efficient design. you can argue that she shouldn't be switching weapons at all during the fight, and i wouldn't necessarily disagree with you, but you can't argue that switching weapons on a controller is anywhere near as efficient as kb/m.

    if someone is struggling to clear expert requirements, they should try kb/m if they aren't already using it.
    You can also use keyboard while using gamepad, though? Literally just turn off direct chat mode.

  2. #42

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    *snip*
    who said the controller was faulty? it works exactly as designed, it was just designed inferior. if you want to use sub pallette item number 7, and then use sub pallette item number 2 after that, i'm going to be a lot faster than you because i don't have to cycle, i can simply press the command i want. you can argue that the skills you use frequently should be grouped together, but that doesn't negate that the inefficiencies of playing on a controller makes more consideration necessary for where you put things on the bar.
    Last edited by Ryna; Jun 3, 2019 at 09:31 AM. Reason: Language

  3. #43
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    So, while I agree with reaper that KB/M has faster access to a lot of stuff, I don't think changing to it when you're more comfortable with gamepad in general is actually going to help. I already mentioned Joy to Key is what I use. I have access to the entire subpallet, every weapon pallet, and every subpallet book on my controler without even needing to move my hands as much as a KB player would to access all of that.

  4. #44
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    *snip*
    reaper isn't saying controllers are bad, they're saying PSO2's controller support lacks functionality that KB/M has, which makes changing pallets or using your subpallet slower. that's just a fact. Yes, you can use it just fine, but that doesn't mean KB/M doesn't have advantages, assuming you're comfortable with using it. Being able to instantly switch to whichever weapon you want and use whichever sub-palette button you want without having to cycle through them is a HUGE deal, and there's simply no way to have access to that functionality on a controller without 3rd party programs.

    I doubt it's what's holding her back though. I also doubt it's her gear. she has a lot of just basic stuff to improve on before considering changing control schemes or investing in better gear.
    Last edited by Ryna; Jun 3, 2019 at 09:18 AM. Reason: Language

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    reaper isn't saying controllers are bad, they're saying PSO2's controller support lacks functionality that KB/M has, which makes changing pallets or using your subpallet slower. that's just a fact. Yes, you can use it just fine, but that doesn't mean KB/M doesn't have advantages, assuming you're comfortable with using it.

    I doubt it's what's holding her back though. I also doubt it's her gear. she has a lot of just basic stuff to improve on before considering changing control schemes or investing in better gear.
    Well that i knew, i just still had no problem with it, i probably did read his wrong but he was coming off pretty odd. but this is also why i mix kb and mouse anyway.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    So, while I agree with reaper that KB/M has faster access to a lot of stuff, I don't think changing to it when you're more comfortable with gamepad in general is actually going to help. I already mentioned Joy to Key is what I use. I have access to the entire subpallet, every weapon pallet, and every subpallet book on my controler without even needing to move my hands as much as a KB player would to access all of that.
    This can also be done via DS4Windows if you have a DS4 or other PS4 controller. If you're using Windows 10, of course, you'll need HIDGuardian for DS4Windows to work properly.
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  7. #47
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Priest View Post
    Well that i knew, i just still had no problem with it, i probably did read his wrong but he was coming off pretty odd. but this is also why i mix kb and mouse anyway.
    I mean, I think reaper is focusing on the wrong things tbh, because I know for a fact people using regular controller controls can beat it. I've seen plenty of videos, and I did it with cheapo 4s units. Like, that's not stuff you try and change first. That's stuff you come to when you're out of options for mechanical improvement, which she's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwalker View Post
    This can also be done via DS4Windows if you have a DS4 or other PS4 controller. If you're using Windows 10, of course, you'll need HIDGuardian for DS4Windows to work properly.
    I'm sure there's plenty of options, I was just pointing out that you can get KB/M functionality on a gamepad if you want to, because ultimately that's the main thing giving KB/M and advantage in PSO2, since WASD movement is honestly trash, and PSO2 isn't a game where mouse aiming is as universally important. I don't think I can go back to the normal controls.
    Last edited by Kondibon; Jun 2, 2019 at 08:37 PM.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Priest View Post
    she's having trouble because she lacks skill.
    lets say you go to the park and see someone shooting free throws, but they're missing all their shots. you look a little closer and notice that they're wearing a blindfold. they might lack skill, but they are additionally making things harder than they have to be by handicapping themselves with a methodology that makes it harder to succeed.

    that's a perfect analogy to your position. she does lack skill, and there's no argument here on that. using less efficient input method is going to take that lack of skill and make it even harder than it already was to succeed.

    i made suggestions that will bridge the skill gap. just because skill is an issue doesn't mean there aren't things that can be done that will reduce the amount of skill needed.

    improving the affixing and skill tree will make it so she doesn't need to be as skilled of a player, and the same holds true for using an input method that gives better control of her character.

    you don't have to like it, but keyboard/mouse objectively gives the player more efficient access to the actions they need to perform. can skill with a controller make up for the input method's inherent shortcomings in this game? sure. that doesn't eliminate them, it just raises the amount of skill needed. doubling down on the notion someone who is struggling should without question continue to use a less efficient way of playing is asinine.

    the fact you edited to effectively say "lol, you can use all 3 at the same time" is pretty much an admission that the controller has flaws and keyboard input is needed to efficiently do things like use the sub pallete. if a controller wasn't a hindrance, there would be no reason to simultaneously use all 3.

  9. #49
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reaper527 View Post
    lets say you go to the park and see someone shooting free throws, but they're missing all their shots. you look a little closer and notice that they're wearing a blindfold. they might lack skill, but they are additionally making things harder than they have to be by handicapping themselves with a methodology that makes it harder to succeed.

    that's a perfect analogy to your position. she does lack skill, and there's no argument here on that. using less efficient input method is going to take that lack of skill and make it even harder than it already was to succeed.

    i made suggestions that will bridge the skill gap. just because skill is an issue doesn't mean there aren't things that can be done that will reduce the amount of skill needed.

    improving the affixing and skill tree will make it so she doesn't need to be as skilled of a player, and the same holds true for using an input method that gives better control of her character.

    you don't have to like it, but keyboard/mouse objectively gives the player more efficient access to the actions they need to perform. can skill with a controller make up for the input method's inherent shortcomings in this game? sure. that doesn't eliminate them, it just raises the amount of skill needed. doubling down on the notion someone who is struggling should without question continue to use a less efficient way of playing is asinine.

    the fact you edited to effectively say "lol, you can use all 3 at the same time" is pretty much an admission that the controller has flaws and keyboard input is needed to efficiently do things like use the sub pallete. if a controller wasn't a hindrance, there would be no reason to simultaneously use all 3.
    The main thing is that she needs to work on her fundamentals before even considering changing control schemes, because chances are, if she's not comfortable using KB/M already then trying to force herself to use it is just going to make her worse.

    Also, everything about why KB/M is better than controler is due to the fact that a bunch of functionality is locked to it, PSO2 isn't a game that requires anything inherent to the physical KB/M as peripherals, and as I and stormwalker have mentioned, there are ways around that.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    I mean, I think reaper is focusing on the wrong things tbh, because I know for a fact people using regular controller controls can beat it. I've seen plenty of videos, and I did it with cheapo 4s units. Like, that's not stuff you try and change first. That's stuff you come to when you're out of options for mechanical improvement, which she's not.
    the thing is, there's more than 1 way to skin a cat. you are correct that she absolutely CAN clear the solo xq with her current gear with more skill . it's good enough to get the job done (asterisk to this statement since we haven't seen her skill tree and it likely needs a rework).

    more skill however isn't the only way to clear the xq, and is the solution that will require the most work and dedication. improving other aspects can lower the amount of skill required. relatively inexpensive gear fixes will make the quest easier. (and she has a full set of lightstream units, so this is an investment that she'll be able to use for a long time to come. it's no like she has dead-end units like bodes). additionally, with all the skill shortcomings she has, she's still getting extremely close to clearing the stage. better gear can absolutely bridge where she is up to where she needs to be. fixing her gear is going to give her a MAJOR damage boost, and that should be enough to get the job done or at the very least, greatly reduce how much better she needs to get..

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