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  1. #31

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    i wish they added defense camo tickets though

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    lize for some content by having to consider the drawbacks it will bring, not being a jack-of-all-trades master-of-all with 1 or 2 builds.
    Regarding FO specifically, it is true that it currently relies too much on TE to be effective (PP management and Light damage), but if it didn't, then some other subclass would be meta. The hard part is how to tune the knobs so that the meta isn't more than 2-3% above the rest of the options. I also dislike that they consider reducing skill point requirements, because then it gets even closer to single-build-which-does-all. This applies for all classes.
    The only thing they should even being doing to Fo is:
    -Reduce Flame T Charge & Bolt PP Save down to 5 SP (might as well make it 1SP really)
    -Buff Flame Techs (currently they're ass and there still really isn't a Fire bossing Tech out)

    Thats it, the class itself doesn't struggle for PP management (as long as you're subbing TE, ya i get it, other subs but I'm not going into that. Fo/Te is the prime focus), Compound Techs dont need to be messed with with how much dmg they do already.
    To me it all comes back to casual playing FO's having these issues BUT by all means, MAKE my one of my Main classes even more OP, I'll take it and run with it just so I can see later on that people are complaining about FO and not GU anymore.

    I REALLY think Sega is out of tune with current class issues with the biggest culprit of them and the playerbase thinking that FI's weapon palette is "balanced". Even the JP FI main players (the ones that are good) were as dumbfounded about this claim. The Limit Break Insurance comments were super laughable
    Last edited by ArcaneTechs; Jul 15, 2019 at 05:09 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  3. #33
    エターナルブレイバー milranduil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    The only thing they should even being doing to Fo is:
    -Reduce Flame T Charge & Bolt PP Save down to 5 SP (might as well make it 1SP really)
    -Buff Flame Techs (currently they're ass and there still really isn't a Fire bossing Tech out)

    Thats it, the class itself doesn't struggle for PP management (as long as you're subbing TE, ya i get it, other subs but I'm not going into that. Fo/Te is the prime focus), Compound Techs dont need to be messed with with how much dmg they do already.
    To me it all comes back to casual playing FO's having these issues BUT by all means, MAKE my one of my Main classes even more OP, I'll take it and run with it just so I can see later on that people are complaining about FO and not GU anymore.

    I REALLY think Sega is out of tune with current class issues with the biggest culprit of them and the playerbase thinking that FI's weapon palette is "balanced". Even the JP FI main players (the ones that are good) were as dumbfounded about this claim. The Limit Break Insurance comments were super laughable
    how can you say fo doesn't struggle with pp when it is forced to stand still to be relevant? the class is loaded with small issues, i would name these as some of the big ones:

    -tech parry is still only one hit
    -pp management requires you to stand still, or you are basically useless after a pp bar dump
    -compounds are still 120 seconds each when skills like chain have none when playing correctly. they should be reduced to at least 90 up to 60 seconds.
    -SP, the only good thing that will come out of their "update', needs reductions. this is 2019, 3 element tree should not STILL be a chore.
    -fire techs are pretty trash
    -now that phantom exists, charging fo techs feels super cumbersome, and photon flare doesn't feel it has much of a place when phantom can charge almost as fast 24/7. flare 85 skill should be extended a bit.

  4. #34

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    I feel like they're stuck chasing their tails with class balance. They need to define what goes into a class, what situations a class needs to solve and make that consistent.

    The problem is twofold. Some classes don't just have weaknesses in the sense of weak options, they're just straight up useless in some situations. If some Phantom decides to lure Dominus all the way into the air, there's almost nothing a Hunter can do for example. Also true for bosses that zip around with ADHD. Most non-successor non Grim Barrage gap closers miss because they move slow and have no homing. A class should still be able to do passably at something they're weak at.

    Second is bosses move so fast and do such cheap things because they gave some classes such good movement and ranged options. Today, the minimum viable criteria for a good attack is like, has homing, moves fast or has hitscan, costs minimal PP, maybe has iframes or guard frames... A lot of attacks have become quite symmetrical in order to keep up.

    Not new problems of course, and some things they can't really backtrack on, but if classes start to look the same, that's because they need to.
    Last edited by Selphea; Jul 16, 2019 at 07:27 AM.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    -tech parry is still only one hit
    I agree and disagree don't you think have full i-frames during the entire duration of your charge and beyond is a bit much outside the one hit? I get that multi-hits will straight tear through you but if if they allow this then FO will be basically the only class to have i-frames for as long as they want at any time while everyone else is left to figure out when to time their i-frames moves

    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    -pp management requires you to stand still, or you are basically useless after a pp bar dump
    PSO Ep 1&2 required you to do the same only difference was that it was a racial ability and not nearly as fast it is none. While its not hard to strategize staying still for PP recovery I would think people would learn to use PP convert at specific times to not have to worry about this issue (because I dont just proc PPC so loosely) BUT I do agree after a full PP dumb it can be an issue sometimes which is why you have Queen Vierra or GS with PP Recovery SSA's to compensate rather than standing still and waiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    -compounds are still 120 seconds each when skills like chain have none when playing correctly. they should be reduced to at least 90 up to 60 seconds.
    They hit already stupid hard but okay, reduce to 90's then I guess make us more OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    -SP, the only good thing that will come out of their "update', needs reductions. this is 2019, 3 element tree should not STILL be a chore.
    100% agree
    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    -fire techs are pretty trash
    100% agree
    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    -now that phantom exists, charging fo techs feels super cumbersome, and photon flare doesn't feel it has much of a place when phantom can charge almost as fast 24/7. flare 85 skill should be extended a bit.
    I was having that same idea about FO coming back to it after playing PH, FO in general felt sluggish overall when PH just has a way better fast pace it. I don't know what they could do to make it feel better without trying to match it with PH tech speed which would make things worse. As for Photon Flare, either extend the time or let it last the full duration, Reduce the cost of the SP needed to invest into those skills too


    I guess another issue is Talis with Rod being the most preferred for various benefits now a days that I went from being a 95% talis main FO in the past to a 100% Rod user. I think they need to start making Talis more appealing because despite getting a 20% dmg bonus with only 4 throws (increase the amount of techs I can cast before I have to throw another) and general safe distance to cast Techs, its not worth using over Rod
    Last edited by ArcaneTechs; Jul 15, 2019 at 02:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  6. #36
    エターナルブレイバー milranduil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    I agree and disagree don't you think have full i-frames during the entire duration of your charge and beyond is a bit much outside the one hit? I get that multi-hits will straight tear through you but if if they allow this then FO will be basically the only class to have i-frames for as long as they want at any time while everyone else is left to figure out when to time their i-frames moves
    where did i say they should be invincible??? i have a problem with tech parry being a single hit over a 0.6 second window in EP6. hunter charge parry let's you parry as many hits as you want over 1.5 seconds for 1 SP... that's 150% longer than tech parry AND multi-hit. the LEAST they can do is allow for more than 1 hit during a short 0.6 second window.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    PSO Ep 1&2 required you to do the same only difference was that it was a racial ability and not nearly as fast it is none. While its not hard to strategize staying still for PP recovery I would think people would learn to use PP convert at specific times to not have to worry about this issue (because I dont just proc PPC so loosely) BUT I do agree after a full PP dumb it can be an issue sometimes which is why you have Queen Vierra or GS with PP Recovery SSA's to compensate rather than standing still and waiting.
    i don't know why you are comparing pso2 ep6 to pso1, that is actually the most possibly absurd comparison i've heard in a while lol. things require you to keep moving in UH. as we said before, tech parry is 1 frontal hit only, so you are forced to mirage a ton to avoid getting hit, which in UH usually means death in 2-3 hits. this basically negates standing still for pp regen altogether, whether you're casting or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    They hit already stupid hard but okay, reduce to 90's then I guess make us more OP?
    sega themselves said they want to balance around the current state of gu, with its stupid ass shift period tmg. the only way FO reaches that level of broken would be if compounds had NO cooldown again. 90 seconds is hardly going to break the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    I guess another issue is Talis with Rod being the most preferred for various benefits now a days that I went from being a 95% talis main FO in the past to a 100% Rod user. I think they need to start making Talis more appealing because despite getting a 20% dmg bonus with only 4 throws (increase the amount of techs I can cast before I have to throw another) and general safe distance to cast Techs, its not worth using over Rod
    i agree that talis needs some a lot of QoL at the moment, but i'm not sure there's much they could do tbh. the game is simply too fast paced for how much setup talis requires to be useful, particularly when we don't need talis zondeel anymore what with rezandia existing.
    Last edited by milranduil; Jul 15, 2019 at 04:50 PM.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    i agree that talis needs some a lot of QoL at the moment, but i'm not sure there's much they could do tbh. the game is simply too fast paced for how much setup talis requires to be useful, particularly when we don't need talis zondeel anymore what with rezandia existing.
    I ironically was pondering on how Talis could get a tech charge reduction built in Talis tech bonus skill in EP5, but they ended up giving that to Phantom with Eisen Flugel,soooo. Yeah at this point it'll take something major to make Talis relevant again.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    where did i say they should be invincible??? i have a problem with tech parry being a single hit over a 0.6 second window in EP6. hunter charge parry let's you parry as many hits as you want over 1.5 seconds for 1 SP... that's 150% longer than tech parry AND multi-hit. the LEAST they can do is allow for more than 1 hit during a short 0.6 second window.
    I was thinking the entire duration until you let go of the charge for some reason, not the total number of i-frames you get but I revoke what I said and agree with this

    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    i don't know why you are comparing pso2 ep6 to pso1, that is actually the most possibly absurd comparison i've heard in a while lol. things require you to keep moving in UH. as we said before, tech parry is 1 frontal hit only, so you are forced to mirage a ton to avoid getting hit, which in UH usually means death in 2-3 hits. this basically negates standing still for pp regen altogether, whether you're casting or not.
    Only compared it as it was something in the older games that they threw back into the current game at a way faster regen rate.
    However ya I get its fast past but Queen Vierra and PP GS is still an option along with PP Convert but having something entirely different to rely on is always an open arms thing

    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    sega themselves said they want to balance around the current state of gu, with its stupid ass shift period tmg. the only way FO reaches that level of broken would be if compounds had NO cooldown again. 90 seconds is hardly going to break the game.
    I'm find with 90's but I basically don't want FO to exactly reach those levels of absurd power to only invite nerfs or further inbalancing with other classes. We're getting nothing but buffs which is cool but it feels like it will impact future content at some point

    Quote Originally Posted by milranduil View Post
    i agree that talis needs some a lot of QoL at the moment, but i'm not sure there's much they could do tbh. the game is simply too fast paced for how much setup talis requires to be useful, particularly when we don't need talis zondeel anymore what with rezandia existing.
    I can't think of any options myself atm but ya Talis needs something to make it worth relying on once again with current content and beyond




    This has nothing to do with FO but more on FI since the stream because Sega thinks the class is "balanced"

    Last edited by ArcaneTechs; Jul 15, 2019 at 09:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  9. #39

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    I do not know how to put this but when you fight the sector one boss I feel that with the small space given and the fact that the mob is mostly using a close-in style attack pattern I wonder how to avoid most stuff ..
    ( The only long range attack would be the spread laser , the thing where it spreads out both arms )

    I mean basically its fast , uses mostly close-in attacks and the fight space is so small. Other than using phantom , I cannot think of any other way to play this. ( was this done on purpose so that we would use phantom more )

    anyways , I wish something be done about this cause rangers will have almost no place in this at the rate this goes

    I maybe a Hero but my style of play is mostly that of a ranger. Basically all of my selected PA's have something to do with range be it short or long
    Last edited by TakemiShinnosuke; Jul 16, 2019 at 07:36 AM.

  10. #40
    An Afternoon Book Burning modoru's Avatar
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    I don't know why I'm responding since he can't read it, but Hero doesn't get boosts from standing still, so even with TMG you goal would be to learn to dodge and keep shooting regardless.
    You'd actually get more damage if you consistently dodged attacks, even.

    Your comparison to ranger is incredibly mistaken.

    At most, you're basically a weaker phantom if you're sticking to TMG.
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