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  1. #161
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulastar View Post
    But there's some cons:
    1 No Time skill = no burst
    Connect on DB and Protect Release on Wand are your burst. I'm pretty sure the only reason DS doesn't have a burst skill is because it does so much damage with its counters.

  2. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCZ View Post
    The dmg difference between LS (active pot) 5/4/5 and Lib DS (with s5 gunslash and mysterious strike) is quite small (around 2-3%?), and u might wanna take advantage of LS PP regen better. So honestly I prefer LS for DS.

    Lib DB makes more sense whether u wanna main it or to just use full connect, using S4 Mysterious Strike and S5 gunslash (and if u have wise skill it makes it better). If you main it but kinda stuck on budget, the DB's S5 (with s4 colossal maybe that thing is cheap) still works ok unlike DS. So Lib DB is an okay choice.

    For Wand I think LS is way better, probably combined with Chaval Melm for close to unlimited PP? Dunno.
    You really think giving up 3~5% more dmg, 40% crit rate, 15% pp reduction, lifesteal (although kinda useless on etoile) is worth gaining a second pp bar every 2 minutes? Also, DB S5 gives more damage than mysterious even with GS S5 + crit unit ssa unless the PA notation is above 4166 in this specific case.

  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reilet View Post
    You really think giving up 3~5% more dmg, 40% crit rate, 15% pp reduction, lifesteal (although kinda useless on etoile) is worth gaining a second pp bar every 2 minutes? Also, DB S5 gives more damage than mysterious even with GS S5 + crit unit ssa unless the PA notation is above 4166 in this specific case.
    The exact number is 2.943% difference I think, that includes the crit and the 2% s5 (if that's what makes u marked up ur number to 5% max). 15% pp reduction is nice but u may wanna find out how it goes in the field compare to LS. Lib DB will take advantage of that little extra dmg from its burst I think like Full Connect more than DS but you can argue about it cause Celestial Collide is sick anyway.

    As for DB PAs, the default is already a DPS loss until you "connect" to Connect or Full Connect, so I assume Thundering Blades can only go as far as balancing them out I guess, but I'm open for real results.

  4. #164

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    You forget that Liberate can use Phrase Weak/Decay for free compared to LS. Etoile also has possibly the best pp regen in the entire game.

    DB 2nd normal being 20 pp, and 3rd being almost 20. DS giving roughly as much or more. DS hold normals giving 20 pp for a total of almost 40 for a single normal. Then you have forward dodge counter on DS giving you almost 50 pp. DS gear also gives 10% more pp recovery for each bar you have. That doesn't even take into account all their pp reduction.

    DB S5 also activates on Full/Connect as well. Also still only 200%, it doesn't get cucked by damage cap for Full Connect.

    They quite literally don't need LS's every 2 minute 2nd PP bar. I also almost never need to use normals to recover PP either.

  5. #165
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    While I agree that etoile has good pp management on DB and DS, Phrase weak and decay are pretty situational so I'm not sure why those would be big selling points, and they're certainly not "free".

    At the end of the day though you can only have 2 liberate right now, and only two once the new years event hits. I would definitely consider the DB to be the priority there, and for wand, I think orb is more reliable, since out of all the Et weapons wand has the worst pp management.

  6. #166

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    I finally proved myself about DB > DS, DS have more survivability but much less DPS.
    In solo Phanatical difference is not to much but Solo PD UH showed it very well: I manage to get only 12.40 run on DS.
    And it's left a Phantom all behind 'cause it's always dies by UH PD oneshots too easily.

    Last edited by Zulastar; Dec 29, 2019 at 07:47 PM.

  7. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    While I agree that etoile has good pp management on DB and DS, Phrase weak and decay are pretty situational so I'm not sure why those would be big selling points, and they're certainly not "free".
    When I said free, i was talking about how LS doesn't have the affixing space for it if you plan to do 5/4/5... That should have been obvious. And that wasn't the selling point. Had you read my previous post, you'd see exactly what it was

  8. #168
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reilet View Post
    When I said free, i was talking about how LS doesn't have the affixing space for it if you plan to do 5/4/5... That should have been obvious. And that wasn't the selling point. Had you read my previous post, you'd see exactly what it was
    I did read it, I mostly disagree because Liberate weapons are so limited right now, there are other classes where their utility is a lot more useful than a bit of extra crit and damage on etoile. The DS is the main exception, especially if you also play Bo. Wand and DB would depend on if you main etoile or not, which if someone was doing, I don't think they would be conflicted at all.

    EDIT: Basically I don't think the opportunity cost of making liberate wand or DS specifically for etoile is as worthwhile as for other weapons, and whether or not it has the biggest damage is irrelevant because they're overkill for current content anyway, unless you're trying to do specific high end stuff.
    Last edited by Kondibon; Dec 30, 2019 at 07:31 AM.

  9. #169

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    Got a few questions...
    I'm using LS DB, Ultimate Chain ds (about to get LS ds) and Ares Ex wand, I don't plan on getting Liberate tbh.
    1) Which weapon is best for bossing and which for mobbing?
    2) Which pa / rotation is best per weapon at the moment?
    At the moment I mostly go by the numbers but can't really tell if they mean much cause the pas with the biggest numbers are so slow and paper dps from the charts also can be inaccurate because they don't take movement / range into account or sometimes count all dot together like with Jet Wheel.

    At the moment I tend to mostly use dbs to try to maximize the amount of Full Connects per quest but I'd rather use all three weapons or at least ds and db.

    On ds I usually use Celestial Collide a lot, but I don't know how to best deal with the long backwards movement and I also dunno how to effectively use hold normals. I just read normals don't interfere with TA Count Bonus (and also not Same Arts PP Save?), so I could just use Collide (or better skip arts Collide?) > held normal or normal normal when gear is low on fast moving targets?

    On Wand I try to spam focus Prism Circular when possible and when not Luminous Flare. I don't use it that much and have even less of a clue than with ds and db.

    3)Is there any point in Wand F Dash? It makes focus Prism Circula (tbh not sure about other focus pas) really hard to use and I become extremely floaty and inaccurate.

    4) Maxed Same Arts PP Save would cut pp cost by 80% if use the same pa 10 times in a row?

    5) Maxed Tech Arts Count Bonus (tacb?) cuts pp for the next 3 pas different from the first as well as raise the damage?

    7) Considering the benefit of Maxed Same Arts PP Save (saps?) how much better (worse?) is alternating pas on Etoile?

    8_) How long do you need to stand still for Standing Massive? Like with Standing Snipe is using attacks/pas fine as long as you only move vertically but not horizontally? Is there a cd?

    9) With maxed flat bonus ja critical is the only disadvantage from missing ja?

    10) Any way to avoid parry causing you to not get a ja window at the end of the pa? I.e. whenever I use it I can't get a ja from the current pa.
    Last edited by mother clusterfck; Jan 2, 2020 at 11:40 AM.

  10. #170
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    1) Which weapon is best for bossing and which for mobbing?
    Wand is the best for mobbing by a long margin. DS is strongest against bosses you can get a lot of counters on, and DB has a lot of burst damage with connects as long as you keep attacking to build your gear up. I think DS is stronger if you're getting a lot of counters and using the gear properly, but DB is more reliable otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    2) Which pa / rotation is best per weapon at the moment?
    Wand is the only one with an actual rotation for single target enemies and it's really clunky, and basically relies on the enemy not moving for the entire duration of focus black hole and you having very specific spacing to alternate glitter stripe and protect release 1 (to lower your height and get some pp back). Otherwise it just comes down to trying to use the same PA 3 times in a row with tech arts count bonus. The PA you use to get to that point isn't really important though, just use whatever works at the moment, and don't worry too much about resetting your rotation if the situation changes, like an enemy moves away or something.

    For DBs you want to use distortion pierce. The other PAs pretty much all have roughly the same DPS, and even distortion pierce isn't that much higher, so just use whichever one will help you get into position for more distortion pierce. If an enemy is moving a lot or you need to reposition then you can use radiant sting. I think it's also stronger than pierce if you're using the liberate s5, but you already said you're not using your liberates for Etoile.

    If you want to keep your distance, or the enemy moved away, but you know it's going to come back by the time you could get to it (elder doing his kick for example), then you can use Light Wave.

    If the enemy dropped very quickly and you want to land without needing to use another PA to distortion pierce, you can use vertical flow to land quickly and immediately combo into distortion pierce. It's also the only PA I'd say edge canceling is worth it for, since the JA appears almost immediately, if you're fast enough you can use it to change your altitude while immediately being able to combo PAs. That's not as important though, since normals on DBs track and don't break the combo anyway, so doing that would be more for resetting your rotation because something moved.

    Ultimately your goal with DBs is to use connects though, the PAs are mainly for building gear so you can do more connects. I recommend only doing one connect and then staying at half gear until you fill it up again though. At least for fights where a boss opens up a weakpoint. Though, with the damage cap that's probably not as important, just make sure that when you use a full connect you're going to hit what you want with it, because it takes a while.

    For DS you want to use saber destruction. Celestial collide on is strong, but I personally use it more for repositioning than DPS because of how slow it is and how easy it is to miss with. If you want to stay far away from something, want to hit a very specific hitbox,or straight up can't reach it, then you can spam skip arts shooting star until you get a chance to counter or quick take to get back in. You can also just use the first halves of Shooting Star or Celestial Collide to change your altitude while dealing damage, but that's not always pp efficient.

    Quasar is mostly for moving, since it has such a long range, and when you start the attack you can keep moving for the first half. I usually don't do the whole thing though, and either use it again before the second half starts, or use a different PA. You can however use skip arts with it to combo into saber destruction without changing your position.

    As for the enhanced attacks, the best time to do them is as a quick take after a counter, or as a step attack out of step slide, since those attacks to the most damage, but ultimately they're just a normal attack with an explosion on the end, I just throw them in whenever I see a good chance and I have gear.

    Wand is a bit more complicated because it's highest dps combo is focused black hole into 3 focused glitter stripes with protect release 1 in between to lower your altitude again, but because focused glitter stripe raises you into the air, has a REALLY small AoE, very specific spacing, and Black hole is immobile. It's basically impractical on anything that isn't completely still, you're better off continuing to spam focused Prism Circular, or focused Luminous Flare for single targets most of the time. Wand probably has the hardest time against bosses that move a lot because of this. You would mainly be using it against bosses because it's so safe. For mobbing there isn't really a rotation, just use the PA that hits the most enemies at the moment. Black hole is a good opener though.

    EDIT: actually, to elaborate on mobbing with wand.
    Prism Circular is is the best for damage if the enemies are all lined up, but the AoE doesn't have much vertical range, and it can get stopped by obsticles.

    Glitter stripe is good when you want the i-frames, want to get int the air without breaking your combo bonuses, or want to knock enemies down.

    Black hole is for grouping mobs up and just some good extra AoE damage.

    Luminous Flare is good for sweeping over weak mobs, taking advantage of focus dash for longer than the other PAs let you, or when you want a long reach, but also want to be able to hit things above or below you.


    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    3)Is there any point in Wand F Dash? It makes focus Prism Circula (tbh not sure about other focus pas) really hard to use and I become extremely floaty and inaccurate.
    All it does is make you move faster, if you want to stop moving then don't move. Moving faster is useful because if you're moving faster, stuff can't hit you as easily. I think it's the same speed as sprinting.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    4) Maxed Same Arts PP Save would cut pp cost by 80% if use the same pa 10 times in a row?
    16 times. I recommend only leveling it to 2 or 3 if you're not going to use etoile as a sub for a class that spams the same PA more than 3 times.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    5) Maxed Tech Arts Count Bonus (tacb?) cuts pp for the next 3 pas different from the first as well as raise the damage?
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    7) Considering the benefit of Maxed Same Arts PP Save (saps?) how much better (worse?) is alternating pas on Etoile?
    Like I said before, you don't need to max it if you're only going to be using etoile as a main class. Raising the level actually decreases how much the PP cost reduction goes up per PA. and pas level 5 all it does is increase the potential cap. If you're never using the same PA that many times in a row it doesn't do much.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    8_) How long do you need to stand still for Standing Massive? Like with Standing Snipe is using attacks/pas fine as long as you only move vertically but not horizontally? Is there a cd?
    There's no cooldown, it works like standing snipe. I think it has the same wait time to trigger too. Also, standing snipe doesn't let you move vertically either.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    9) With maxed flat bonus ja critical is the only disadvantage from missing ja?
    You also miss out on the 15% from Etoile JA bonus. Flat bonus is just a little bit of insurrance in case you miss JAs. Some times I just hold down the normal attack button on DB when I need PP or I'm chasing something, so there's that.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    10) Any way to avoid parry causing you to not get a ja window at the end of the pa? I.e. whenever I use it I can't get a ja from the current pa.
    I'm not sure what you mean. The DB parry shouldn't be stopping your PAs. If you mean the weapon actions in general, the only one I canthink of is that wand's focus PA circle is a JA circle (you can do normal JAs out of it too) and if you use the weapon action too early then the attack won't get a normal JA circle afterwords.
    Last edited by Kondibon; Jan 2, 2020 at 02:24 PM.

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