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  1. #81
    Hardcore Casual Dark Mits's Avatar
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    For the record, you can still play PSO2 as if it's PSO1 or PSU. However, do not expect the majority of the playerbase to do so as well. If the english community on the JP servers is any indication, people will prefer to kick you from the group than even ask you if you're done picking up items before restarting a quest.

  2. #82
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    For the record, you can still play PSO2 as if it's PSO1 or PSU. However, do not expect the majority of the playerbase to do so as well. If the english community on the JP servers is any indication, people will prefer to kick you from the group than even ask you if you're done picking up items before restarting a quest.
    ??? What are you even talking about? I meant the fundamentals of the gameplay and equipment progression are different. I have no idea what that has to do with whatever you're talking about.

    Also, if you want to control the pacing of restarting quests then form your own party or play without one. And before you bring up the party bonus, the only drops that have drop rates low enough for that to matter are things you can auto pick up.

  3. #83
    Hardcore Casual Dark Mits's Avatar
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    It wasn't a jab at progression or reward bonuses; I meant exactly what I said. PSO2, due to its hasty nature, does not grant players the opportunity to socialize and make friendships during quests, but in lobbies. Or to be more accurate, it does give it, but the percentage of the playerbase that would like that is exceptionally small compared to PSO1 and PSU. The extent of anti-socilalization during quests is strong enough that unless you have already formed a friendship bond with the party leader, you will most likely be removed from a group or forced to restart without them asking if you're ready.

  4. #84
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    It wasn't a jab at progression or reward bonuses; I meant exactly what I said. PSO2, due to its hasty nature, does not grant players the opportunity to socialize and make friendships during quests, but in lobbies. Or to be more accurate, it does give it, but the percentage of the playerbase that would like that is exceptionally small compared to PSO1 and PSU. The extent of anti-socilalization during quests is strong enough that unless you have already formed a friendship bond with the party leader, you will most likely be removed from a group or forced to restart without them asking if you're ready.
    I'm just not sure what socializing in quests has to do with "playing like PSO1 and PSU". The pace of the game is the kind of thing I was talking about, but it's not like like all you need to do is slow down and socialize to make quest non-randomized, the game not revolve around EQs, and equipment progression not obtuse.

    The reason people socialize less in quests is because there's so many other ways to socialize online nowadays, that most people already have their friends.
    Last edited by Kondibon; Jan 3, 2020 at 04:32 PM.

  5. #85
    Hardcore Casual Dark Mits's Avatar
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    The social aspect of a multiplayer game is very important for player retention.

    A lot of returning players, who were PSO1 and/or PSU players and have expressed their interest in playing PSO2 West, do not want to do so only because they expect gameplay features, lore, settings, names, skills etc. that will resemble those earlier games; they also remember the fun they had in group quests, their friends with which they grouped up to clear content, and the general banter that took place not only while preparing for quests but during questing.

    Players in PSO2 socialize less not only because of more means to socialize outside questing (or even in game), but because the structure of the game is fundamentally imposing players the dilemma: Do you want to break fun with others in the mpa, or do you want rewards? You cannot have both. With half EQs allowing as many runs as you can fit in the 30mins, and the other half being exploitable by switching to another character/ship/account, and ticket bonuses being all time-based, in combination with today's paradigm shift to reward vs. effort and reward vs. time investment even in online gaming, the game will be more likely to retain players that enjoy this behaviour. Add to this the fact that there is no content in the game that cannot be done without treating the game as offline singleplayer, and absolute maxxed stats can be acquired even by treating the game as offline singleplayer.

    And a personal observation: players with japanese characters in their names are at least 10x more likely to say "TY4MPA" or any variation of it, even if as an autoword, than any character with non-JP name. By extrapolation, this means that non-JP players are less likely to even care to acknowledge that there is a person playing that other character in their group.

    I'm overanalyzing something that pretty much everyone knows but doesn't want to accept.

  6. #86
    General Psycho Coxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    It wasn't a jab at progression or reward bonuses; I meant exactly what I said. PSO2, due to its hasty nature, does not grant players the opportunity to socialize and make friendships during quests, but in lobbies. Or to be more accurate, it does give it, but the percentage of the playerbase that would like that is exceptionally small compared to PSO1 and PSU. The extent of anti-socilalization during quests is strong enough that unless you have already formed a friendship bond with the party leader, you will most likely be removed from a group or forced to restart without them asking if you're ready.
    Did you play DC PSO? There was very little socialising during quests, unless you were in a group of friends. If you went the wrong way or needed to shop you'd get left behind playing with randoms. It doesn't sound any different to me personally

  7. #87
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    The social aspect of a multiplayer game is very important for player retention.
    Only in the sense that people having other people to play with and talk to keeps them interested. Where the talking is going on, and with who specifically doesn't really matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    A lot of returning players, who were PSO1 and/or PSU players and have expressed their interest in playing PSO2 West, do not want to do so only because they expect gameplay features, lore, settings, names, skills etc. that will resemble those earlier games; they also remember the fun they had in group quests, their friends with which they grouped up to clear content, and the general banter that took place not only while preparing for quests but during questing.
    That stuff still happens, just not literally in the game chat.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    Players in PSO2 socialize less not only because of more means to socialize outside questing (or even in game), but because the structure of the game is fundamentally imposing players the dilemma: Do you want to break fun with others in the mpa, or do you want rewards? You cannot have both. With half EQs allowing as many runs as you can fit in the 30mins, and the other half being exploitable by switching to another character/ship/account, and ticket bonuses being all time-based, in combination with today's paradigm shift to reward vs. effort and reward vs. time investment even in online gaming, the game will be more likely to retain players that enjoy this behaviour. Add to this the fact that there is no content in the game that cannot be done without treating the game as offline singleplayer, and absolute maxxed stats can be acquired even by treating the game as offline singleplayer..
    You're not wrong about people socializing less mid quest, but I REALLY think you're overstating how prevalent it was or is in other games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    And a personal observation: players with japanese characters in their names are at least 10x more likely to say "TY4MPA" or any variation of it, even if as an autoword, than any character with non-JP name. By extrapolation, this means that non-JP players are less likely to even care to acknowledge that there is a person playing that other character in their group.
    And by my personal observation JP named players actually talk less in chat in general than EN named. So by extrapolation JP players only socialize because of ingrained social etiquette, and not because they actually enjoy socializing. /s We can all make halfassed assumptions about why which people do or don't say, what's effectively just a formality, after missions. Maybe they forgot. Maybe they just weren't happy with how the run went. Maybe they're suffering from crippling social anxiety and don't like to talk much, lest they risk getting caught up in a conversation wish a stranger in a language they don't understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    I'm overanalyzing something that pretty much everyone knows but doesn't want to accept.
    No, I think you're just wrong about most of it.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    The social aspect of a multiplayer game is very important for player retention.

    A lot of returning players, who were PSO1 and/or PSU players and have expressed their interest in playing PSO2 West, do not want to do so only because they expect gameplay features, lore, settings, names, skills etc. that will resemble those earlier games; they also remember the fun they had in group quests, their friends with which they grouped up to clear content, and the general banter that took place not only while preparing for quests but during questing.

    Players in PSO2 socialize less not only because of more means to socialize outside questing (or even in game), but because the structure of the game is fundamentally imposing players the dilemma: Do you want to break fun with others in the mpa, or do you want rewards? You cannot have both. With half EQs allowing as many runs as you can fit in the 30mins, and the other half being exploitable by switching to another character/ship/account, and ticket bonuses being all time-based, in combination with today's paradigm shift to reward vs. effort and reward vs. time investment even in online gaming, the game will be more likely to retain players that enjoy this behaviour. Add to this the fact that there is no content in the game that cannot be done without treating the game as offline singleplayer, and absolute maxxed stats can be acquired even by treating the game as offline singleplayer.

    And a personal observation: players with japanese characters in their names are at least 10x more likely to say "TY4MPA" or any variation of it, even if as an autoword, than any character with non-JP name. By extrapolation, this means that non-JP players are less likely to even care to acknowledge that there is a person playing that other character in their group.

    I'm overanalyzing something that pretty much everyone knows but doesn't want to accept.
    As someone who played more with NPCs than real people (got the titles to prove it), I can state that the game is still very much enjoyable. Sure, there are negatives aspect, I mean I'll never be able to get titles that require you to do things in groups (Challenge Quests, Endless Quests, Trigger Quests for 6th Angel, Riding Quests), but you can't have it all I guess.

    At least I play when I want to play and only schedule myself for EQ.
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  9. #89

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    Of all the MMOs I played, this is the one where I have interacted the less with others by far(both strangers and with team/guild), but it is also the one I played and enjoyed the most. Then again, the majority of those were the Global/NA version of Korean pay2win games

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by echofaith View Post
    Of all the MMOs I played, this is the one where I have interacted the less with others by far(both strangers and with team/guild), but it is also the one I played and enjoyed the most. Then again, the majority of those were the Global/NA version of Korean pay2win games
    I think it has more to do with the game not encouraging much strategy and teamwork, tbh. Unlike many other MMOs, PSO2 doesn't have actual "roles" so every class feels self-sufficient.

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