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  1. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    PPS: If you can get to 2000+ HP with guts drink ex S5 Vigorous Response is op. It's a single slot in a place where almost everything is limited to a specific weapon type but offers several powerful buffs. The damage res and HP regen are neat but of no consequence (though together pretty good for other ssa slots) but the up to 4% dmg buff added on top makes it very useful and if you got 2500+ HP you can also keep hp high fairly easily to keep get a high amount of that 4% dmg boost.
    you really shouldnt rely on grabbing a specific drink to make sure an SSA procs fully honestly, stick to Shifta

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    In short, better than Mysterious Purpose and better than some weapon specific S5 as long as you have the HP and considering UH enemies can do 1000+ damage and bosses 1500+ high base HP are necessary to not be a fragile glass cannon anyway.
    Getting to 2500 HP with Guts drink ex isn't that hard if you add just a bit more HP on your units than you'd normally would.
    I'm assuming you guys are willing to stop constantly to heal yourself through mates right? so giving up Lifesteal is apparently worth it

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  2. #212
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    I tried mathing up what's the best way to recover pp but it's way too complex when you factor in gear and voltage. I realized on lu main switching to a pp battery gs and making use of complete rest is pointless, but it is amazing when you sub lu, especially if like you me you can recover 169pp in 3s.
    I don't know which classes can make the most use of Lu sub but also need a lot of PP recovery, but this makes more sense than trying to use it as a Lu Main. Fi is probably the best class it's a sub for though, and as far as I know Fi doesn't have pp management problems. Su can make good use of it since your pet can be attacking while your takt is sheathed, but Lu has terrible multipliers for pets, pets can't JA, and pets build voltage slowly, so you aren't getting a lot of benefit otherwise. Fo can kinda take advantage of it, but at that point I'd rather go Fo/Te or Fo/Ph if I wanted better pp recovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    I also noticed step slide advance refills nearly half a gear bar as does slash rise / fall (both do about 2/3 regular pa damage for ~8pp considering pp regen) but a 4x normal combo refills almost 3 gear bars so I guess it's probably best to use this once you run out of gear as you are likely going to end up with 3 full bars at the end or right after the end for more enhanced brand extension.
    I don't really use step slide advanced for gear recovery unless I'm going for a counter, the normal combo+quickshoot+quickslash is enough to fill your gear bar almost completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    A)How much dps depends on style, i.e. how often should I use style purge?
    I mainly use style purge before starting and ending luster time, or if I'm completely out of resources for some reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    B) Is there a reliable way to get Fomel Photon Clusters with a laggy connection (it's so bad rdr boosted eqs always have enemies teleport around randomly)?
    If my photon clusters fall off then I usually just tap stay flechette until get used to the timing again. Lag doesn't matter. For what it's worth, mobs teleporting around isn't specifically caused by connection lag, it's caused by the game desyncing. When an instance is created it picks someone to sync everything to (usually the first person who created the instance). If they or you have a really low/choppy framerate it'll cause desync problems, and try to teleport the mobs to wherever they are for the "host" when it tries to sync.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    C) how good is Fomel (normal x4 > 3 bar charged weapon action > repeat) as combo?
    If you have no gear and no pp, it's kinda your only option.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    D) How do Baran guard points in pas work, can I time a pa like step because of a gaurd point at the beginning? And is it normal pa only or also enhanced pa?
    It just puts guard points on the first part of the stay arts PAs, and extends the ones that already have guard frames. It's not for the whole animation or anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    PS: I noticed gs damage with lu sub depends heavily on the main class and not how you think it would, FiLu has onyl 5-10% more damage than FiHu but FoLu has 200% mre damage than FoEt with Et sub having striking and ranged multipliers only 5% or so lower than hu sub.
    Kinda ironic Lu subs gives Fo (and probably other teching classes) powerful gs use.
    That's because the skill is meant to make up for a lack of main class multipliers that affect gunslash damage. Because Fo has no striking or ranged damage multipliers at all, it gets the most out of it. Fi on the other hand has the most potential general damage multipliers, so it gets the least out of it. The idea is to make the damage potential of each class roughly the same when using a gunslash with Lu as a sub.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    PPS: If you can get to 2000+ HP with guts drink ex S5 Vigorous Response is op. It's a single slot in a place where almost everything is limited to a specific weapon type but offers several powerful buffs. The damage res and HP regen are neat but of no consequence (though together pretty good for other ssa slots) but the up to 4% dmg buff added on top makes it very useful and if you got 2500+ HP you can also keep hp high fairly easily to keep get a high amount of that 4% dmg boost.

    In short, better than Mysterious Purpose and better than some weapon specific S5 as long as you have the HP and considering UH enemies can do 1000+ damage and bosses 1500+ high base HP are necessary to not be a fragile glass cannon anyway.
    Getting to 2500 HP with Guts drink ex isn't that hard if you add just a bit more HP on your units than you'd normally would.
    You lost me at guts drink. With the shifta drink being 50% now, the guts drink just isn't worth it for Vigorous Response's damage multiplier, you'd be giving up more damage than you'd gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneTechs View Post
    I'm assuming you guys are willing to stop constantly to heal yourself through mates right? so giving up Lifesteal is apparently worth it
    Vigorous response does have lifesteal on it at least. You also have megiverse when below 75% hp, assuming we're talking in the context of luster.
    Last edited by Kondibon; Oct 8, 2020 at 10:25 PM.

  3. #213

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    You can make Vigorous viable with a Rappy Shine, reaching 2.5k HP unbuffed without being invasive with the affixes. Reaching 3k is also possible, but thats when you need real heavy affixing and the use of Grand Staminas over Grand Atks, so I guess it depends on how much you are willing to sacrifice for the super armor.

    Downside is losing the S6 and whatever Atk a 13* rear would give, but you do get better uptime from the extra tankiness, so it all boils down to how much need the S6.

  4. #214
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echofaith View Post
    You can make Vigorous viable with a Rappy Shine, reaching 2.5k HP unbuffed without being invasive with the affixes. Reaching 3k is also possible, but thats when you need real heavy affixing and the use of Grand Staminas over Grand Atks, so I guess it depends on how much you are willing to sacrifice for the super armor.

    Downside is losing the S6 and whatever Atk a 13* rear would give, but you do get better uptime from the extra tankiness, so it all boils down to how much need the S6.
    In my experience rappy shine isn't as effective at keeping you alive as a novel rear with guardian armor, so you'd actually be squishier.

    Rappy shine would certainly be less of a problem than dropping the shifta drink though.

  5. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    Vigorous response does have lifesteal on it at least. You also have megiverse when below 75% hp, assuming we're talking in the context of luster.
    I completely forgot it got additional effects aside attack increases

    Quote Originally Posted by echofaith View Post
    You can make Vigorous viable with a Rappy Shine, reaching 2.5k HP unbuffed without being invasive with the affixes. Reaching 3k is also possible, but thats when you need real heavy affixing and the use of Grand Staminas over Grand Atks, so I guess it depends on how much you are willing to sacrifice for the super armor.

    Downside is losing the S6 and whatever Atk a 13* rear would give, but you do get better uptime from the extra tankiness, so it all boils down to how much need the S6.
    there is almost no reason to use Rappy Shine anymore, especially if you affixed for Guardian Soul last boost week. its essentially a useless unit now and not worth an S6 slot loss

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  6. #216
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneTechs View Post
    if you affixed for Guardian Soul last boost week.
    That's so prohibitively expensive and time consuming that I'm not even sure why you mentioned it. If you have the resources to do that then it doesn't matter what units or SSAs you use.

  7. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    In my experience rappy shine isn't as effective at keeping you alive as a novel rear with guardian armor, so you'd actually be squishier.

    Rappy shine would certainly be less of a problem than dropping the shifta drink though.
    Rappy Shine was indeed weaker than your average 12 or 13* rear during early UH because of the lower base attack enemies. But since they added Divide Quest, it feels like they went back to old formulas again. At least for stuff like for stuff like DQ and Persona I seem to take very similar damage regardless of my defense, as opposed to Dragon and Loser making me take sometimes 2 digits numbers in UH from high defense. Havent tested defense in Primordial though, so I may be wrong.

  8. #218
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echofaith View Post
    Rappy Shine was indeed weaker than your average 12 or 13* rear during early UH because of the lower base attack enemies. But since they added Divide Quest, it feels like they went back to old formulas again. At least for stuff like for stuff like DQ and Persona I seem to take very similar damage regardless of my defense, as opposed to Dragon and Loser making me take sometimes 2 digits numbers in UH from high defense. Havent tested defense in Primordial though, so I may be wrong.
    I don't remember there ever being anything about UH enemies having lower base attack. Either way, after standing around in mobs for a few minutes with various units, even with equidic grudge without a guardian armor s6 I was averaging taking a lower percentage of my hp per hit compared to rappy shine. In terms of raw damage I was taking about 2~2.5x as much damage with rappy compared to any of my 13* units, despite it barely being a 50% raw hp increase. And this was against some random level 80 oodans, enemies that do more damage per hit would have more damage cut from the resists on the units. Even more so if guardian armor is involved.

  9. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    That's so prohibitively expensive and time consuming that I'm not even sure why you mentioned it. If you have the resources to do that then it doesn't matter what units or SSAs you use.
    my point is Rappy Shine is a bad unit now, I really think nobody should be even using this anymore unless you have a specific niche moment for some reason still to bother. My point with Guardian Soul was again, not to sacrifice elsewhere elsewhere for more HP just to make that SSA work, that SSA is honestly not worth the time and effort

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  10. #220

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    Early Ultra hard enemies had lower base attack(the one used for ATK - DEF part of the formula) but higher multipliers to make up for it. Similar to Masquerade from floor 100 which have very low base attack but high multipliers to make up for it, so you could take straight 1s if your defense was high enough. Bosses like UH Dragon did way lower than damage then their XH counterpart because of this. Thats why Defense became important in episode 6 and why Rappy Shine loss its usage.

    I assume you did your testing in UH free fields. Thats where I did mine before swapping to a full Novel, but when enemies got boosted again, the defense lost its edge again. I tested this again on Divides steps 20+ where trash mobs would do close to 1k, and swapping to the Rappy Shine would add at best 10% more damage despite the defense lost(had no guardian armor SSA in the novel though). Same with Persona, which is why I think they kept using the old formulas for more recent content.

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