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  1. #221
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echofaith View Post
    Early Ultra hard enemies had lower base attack(the one used for ATK - DEF part of the formula) but higher multipliers to make up for it. Similar to Masquerade from floor 100 which have very low base attack but high multipliers to make up for it, so you could take straight 1s if your defense was high enough. Bosses like UH Dragon did way lower than damage then their XH counterpart because of this. Thats why Defense became important in episode 6 and why Rappy Shine loss its usage.
    I couldn't find anything about this. In fact everything I did find implies UH free field enemies have a 70% attack increase AND a high multiplier.
    Rappy shine fell out of favor because the two main early pieces of UH content had healing reductions on them, and by the time that wasn't the norm for repeatable UH content, 13* units were more common, so you just had better options in terms of effective hp.

    Quote Originally Posted by echofaith View Post
    I assume you did your testing in UH free fields. Thats where I did mine before swapping to a full Novel, but when enemies got boosted again, the defense lost its edge again. I tested this again on Divides steps 20+ where trash mobs would do close to 1k, and swapping to the Rappy Shine would add at best 10% more damage despite the defense lost(had no guardian armor SSA in the novel though). Same with Persona, which is why I think they kept using the old formulas for more recent content.
    In XH and UH free fields it was the same. In the ship UQ it was about a 30-40% increase in damage taken using rappy shine over a 13* unit. And for Divides it was the smallest difference, but step 21-25 divide quest mobs have 50% (65% for 26-30) more attack anyway, so of course defense has less of an impact in that specific content. Most things don't get that much of an attack increase in general, I'd hardly consider it the new norm.

  2. #222

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    This is where I found about the lower base attack of UH enemies:
    https://ranger0-com.cdn.ampproject.o...www.google.com

    Funnily is talking about Rappy Shine being outclassed by newer units because of the defense difference. The divide quest example isnt the norm, but the point is that if they want to ramp up damage in a meaningful way, they have will have to do it with the method of a higher base, otherwise it will just end up being easier than XH. I remember for UH Persona the difference in damage taken was also small so I am sure they are using older formulas for it, but I will try it in Primordial when I have the chance.

  3. #223
    エターナルブレイバー milranduil's Avatar
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    UH has had a 1.7x multiplier to (atk - def) since it released. UH dragon is a definitive outlier in that its attack is so low we take less damage than in XH as opposed to the other UH bosses (elder, omega luther, persona) which do considerably more than their XH counterparts.

  4. #224

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    People got salty at me throwing myself at the walls of fire on Primo 2nd form, but that was the easiest source I could find to test damage taken, since there is a variation with criticals and all. My Novel was grinded to +10, but badly affixed and no Guardian Armor, so I am assuming I will get an extra 10% damage reduction with a proper one.

    The thunders he does with his eyes during his 1st phase did 230(207) with my Novel and 290 with my Rappy, so thats over 40% extra damage taken.
    The fire attack he does with his eyes did 550(495) with Novel, while Rappy took 645, so thats 30% more damage taken.
    The white goo he does in the last part of his 1st phase was doing 210(189) while rappy took 250, so 30% more damage.

    Second phase wall of fire were doing 875(787) with Novel, Rappy took 945, so 20% more damage taken.
    Swipes were all over the place, ranging from 300 to 500 with both pieces, so I could not verify them properly.
    His...beam? the from his core that sends you flying did 960(864) with Novel and 1040 with Rappy, so 20% damage extra
    His Ice multi hit did 1470(1323) with Novel and Rappy took 1640, so 25% more damage taken.
    Lastly, I could only take the Fire Wipe last hit once, so I took it with Novel and got hit for 1600(1440). Normally when I go with Rappy I take from 1500 to 1800 so assuming that the highest I get, it would end up int 25% more damage taken.

    I got lazy and didnt test in 3rd phase. From what I have seen though it seems the higher the numbers you take, the smaller the gap gets. From 800 damage and higher, it seems the gap is 25--30% extra damage taken. I am thinking free field enemies have very low base attack, that the 400 extra defense can actually cut most of the damage and widens the gap, but at least for EQ bosses(and boosted crap like DQ) their base attack seems high enough that reduction from defense wouldnt be that noticeable.

    I personally think Rappy Shine will help you survive better in bosses, even if just slightly, but that will mostly depend on your current HP. There are other factors too like the fixed healing(so a higher HP pool isnt wanted) But for general purposes, I would say below 1700 HP, a Rappy will tank you more than any 13* unit, while above that a 13* unit will tank you more.

  5. #225
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    The obvious solution is 13* rappy shine.

  6. #226

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    That would be a good solution, so we cant have that ):

  7. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    I don't know which classes can make the most use of Lu sub but also need a lot of PP recovery, but this makes more sense than trying to use it as a Lu Main. Fi is probably the best class it's a sub for though, and as far as I know Fi doesn't have pp management problems. Su can make good use of it since your pet can be attacking while your takt is sheathed, but Lu has terrible multipliers for pets, pets can't JA, and pets build voltage slowly, so you aren't getting a lot of benefit otherwise. Fo can kinda take advantage of it, but at that point I'd rather go Fo/Te or Fo/Ph if I wanted better pp recovery.

    I don't really use step slide advanced for gear recovery unless I'm going for a counter, the normal combo+quickshoot+quickslash is enough to fill your gear bar almost completely.

    I mainly use style purge before starting and ending luster time, or if I'm completely out of resources for some reason.

    If my photon clusters fall off then I usually just tap stay flechette until get used to the timing again. Lag doesn't matter. For what it's worth, mobs teleporting around isn't specifically caused by connection lag, it's caused by the game desyncing. When an instance is created it picks someone to sync everything to (usually the first person who created the instance). If they or you have a really low/choppy framerate it'll cause desync problems, and try to teleport the mobs to wherever they are for the "host" when it tries to sync.

    If you have no gear and no pp, it's kinda your only option.

    It just puts guard points on the first part of the stay arts PAs, and extends the ones that already have guard frames. It's not for the whole animation or anything.

    That's because the skill is meant to make up for a lack of main class multipliers that affect gunslash damage. Because Fo has no striking or ranged damage multipliers at all, it gets the most out of it. Fi on the other hand has the most potential general damage multipliers, so it gets the least out of it. The idea is to make the damage potential of each class roughly the same when using a gunslash with Lu as a sub.

    You lost me at guts drink. With the shifta drink being 50% now, the guts drink just isn't worth it for Vigorous Response's damage multiplier, you'd be giving up more damage than you'd gain.

    Vigorous response does have lifesteal on it at least. You also have megiverse when below 75% hp, assuming we're talking in the context of luster.
    Thanks for the reply but teleporting enemies is mostly lag. None of my friends have it unless there is serious server lag but I have it in virtually all multi mpa quests. And it's not like in other games it's desynth because someone else created the room, teleporting stuff is a common sign of lag in ALL online games.

    Also, only Guts drink was buffed, All other drinks, including Shifta are unchanged. Not sure why but without other buffs Shifta Drink ex raises my s-atk by 15% and my r-atk by 10% (might be because of some lu class mechanics).

    And tbh all classes benefit from high pp regen, it's just that in luster's case it's no worth it with a pp battery gs because how easily voltage drops and because a normal x4 combo fills your gear gauge almost to full.
    Neither te or no lu need to drop anything important, for lu it's only refilling hp and pp a little on occasion and raising status chance and even then only a few sp, I got both recovery skills at 5 and Deband Disorder at 9 and Complete Rest at 6 which is the best spot since afterwards the boost per sp is only a third.
    Te has to give up on even less important skills, pretty much just pp Convert which is vastly inferior because it's a fixed 5pp per second when Restorate is 17 and since it's a multiplier stacks with all other pp regen as well.

  8. #228

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    Shifta drink was buffed with Guts my dude

    http://www.bumped.org/psublog/march-...e-adjustments/

    PP battery GS is fine for Lu as well or any class honestly

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  9. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    Thanks for the reply but teleporting enemies is mostly lag. None of my friends have it unless there is serious server lag but I have it in virtually all multi mpa quests. And it's not like in other games it's desynth because someone else created the room, teleporting stuff is a common sign of lag in ALL online games.

    Also, only Guts drink was buffed, All other drinks, including Shifta are unchanged. Not sure why but without other buffs Shifta Drink ex raises my s-atk by 15% and my r-atk by 10% (might be because of some lu class mechanics).

    And tbh all classes benefit from high pp regen, it's just that in luster's case it's no worth it with a pp battery gs because how easily voltage drops and because a normal x4 combo fills your gear gauge almost to full.
    Neither te or no lu need to drop anything important, for lu it's only refilling hp and pp a little on occasion and raising status chance and even then only a few sp, I got both recovery skills at 5 and Deband Disorder at 9 and Complete Rest at 6 which is the best spot since afterwards the boost per sp is only a third.
    Te has to give up on even less important skills, pretty much just pp Convert which is vastly inferior because it's a fixed 5pp per second when Restorate is 17 and since it's a multiplier stacks with all other pp regen as well.
    Guts drink works based in your total HP, just like Deband HP buff. Shifta drink on the other hand should be giving you 50% of your base attack which depending on race, class and tree passives should be around 1100-1300 at level 95, so the drink should be giving you around 600 atk on average. The thing is, that Team buff and Shifta technique all stack with drink multiplicatively, so if you have them all, the drink will be giving you close to 900 attack easily.

    The 15% and 10% sounds about right if you meant total attack, because of Luster GS passive that gives 70% extra r-atk from your weapon(but no element), which should transltate to 10% more damage

  10. #230
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    Thanks for the reply but teleporting enemies is mostly lag. None of my friends have it unless there is serious server lag but I have it in virtually all multi mpa quests. And it's not like in other games it's desynth because someone else created the room, teleporting stuff is a common sign of lag in ALL online games.
    Desync is what causes enemy teleporting, lag can cause desyncs, but it's not the only cause. If you don't see everyone and everything stopping randomly before it happens then it's not lag. The fact that you only have it happen in MPAs makes it pretty clear that it's desync because you can lag solo, the mobs just don't have to resync with anyone so it doesn't happen.

    I mainly brought it up because the "host" sync aspect is important. Even when it is caused by actual lag, if you're the host EVERYONE has mobs spawning slowly or teleporting, or in some cases just standing around doing nothing. If you're not, then only you have the problems, while the MPA is functioning fine and you have to keep catching up. I've seen this first hand multiple times. Especially when there were those really bad lag spikes a few weeks before Lu came out. I ended up being the first person in an MPA at one point and it literally couldn't progress because of how long my lag was. But any time I wasn't the first, everyone basically blazed through it while I couldn't see what was going on until it sync'd again.

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    Also, only Guts drink was buffed, All other drinks, including Shifta are unchanged. Not sure why but without other buffs Shifta Drink ex raises my s-atk by 15% and my r-atk by 10% (might be because of some lu class mechanics).
    I'd like to point out that because of the way non-element works, that 10% more r-atk on luster is probably going to be more total damage than the 4% from the s5.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneTechs View Post
    PP battery GS is fine for Lu as well or any class honestly
    The effect stacks with other pp regen effects though, so it's not like having more would be bad for classes using Lu as a sub. If you're already standing still, switching to a pp recovery weapon will sheath it anyway, so you just immediately get the effect. I don't really feel like any classes other than Te and Fo really benefit from it though, and Fo/Lu didn't particularly stand out to me. It might also work with Ra.

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