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  1. #201

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    Is it safe to assume that S5 Tethered Eclipse is like Fighter's Chase skills, certain latents and Phrase Chase where Jellen doesn't work for them since it's technically not considered a Status Effect, even though it essentially is?

    I'm trying to figure out what the go-to S5 is for Lightweaver.

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renzix View Post
    Is it safe to assume that S5 Tethered Eclipse is like Fighter's Chase skills, certain latents and Phrase Chase where Jellen doesn't work for them since it's technically not considered a Status Effect, even though it essentially is?

    I'm trying to figure out what the go-to S5 is for Lightweaver.
    S5: Mysterious Purpose will always be Lu's best S5, especially when you need that crit which is already better than S5 Tethered Eclipse could ever be

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renzix View Post
    Is it safe to assume that S5 Tethered Eclipse is like Fighter's Chase skills, certain latents and Phrase Chase where Jellen doesn't work for them since it's technically not considered a Status Effect, even though it essentially is?
    If something doesn't explicitly mention jellen or WB then they don't count. I did try it with Zandi style, just to see how it felt when mobbing, but it's not really worth it.

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneTechs View Post
    S5: Mysterious Purpose will always be Lu's best S5, especially when you need that crit which is already better than S5 Tethered Eclipse could ever be
    I agree and disagree at the same time about that at least for the context of Lightweaver only.

    I agree only in the context that if you are in an EQ or any kind of quest with a Techer or even Bouncers, then you will fully benefit from having Critical Damage SSAs and Mysterious Purpose since they will get you to 100% Critical Chance even before you trigger High Voltage.

    I disagree in situations where you are doing pug/solo runs of quests or EQs and there is no Bouncer or Techer (which is very common) around that can boost your Crit chance. As we know, every one has a 5% Crit Chance by default. Critical Ring paired with that jumps it up to 25%. S5 Mysterious for its 20% gives us 45%. Depending on the boss, it takes roughly around 25-30 seconds to get your Voltage high enough from zero for the 25% Crit Chance from High Voltage. So then you're sitting at 70%. I'm excluding S6 Wise Skill from this because that is not feasible in the sense that while it is available from a few quests one can do to obtain it, the chance of getting that specific S6 yet alone a Rear drop with it on it is very slim unless you get really lucky.

    In the case of Lightweaver and in the event that people can only afford Crit DMG SSAs during the long window you have building up Voltage to get the benefit of High Voltage's Crit Chance if no Techer or Bouncer is involved, you are absolutely going to get outdpsed by some one running the BiS S1-S3 SSAs of Red Petal Flash, Rainbow's Intent and Nature's Melody 2. Once you do have the benefit of High Voltage and don't lose it, you still have a 30% chance of not critting which still puts you at a disadvantage from not benefitting on S5's Crit DMG and Crit DMG SSAs if you choose to run those.

    In this sense, it would absolutely make sense for S5 Tethered Eclipse to be a better option than S5 Mysterious Purpose if you can't get your crit high enough without a Bouncer/Techer or S6 Wise Skill to fully benefit from it. Though since we know Jellen doesn't count as a Status Effect for most things and Tethered Eclipse does not work for it, that's not a possible option. In this case, I would actually say S5 Vigorous Response is a much stronger option than Mysterious Purpose if you can hit the 2k HP threshold while still having high ATK and PP affixes on Units.
    Last edited by Renzix; Oct 8, 2020 at 11:01 AM.

  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renzix View Post
    I agree and disagree at the same time about that at least for the context of Lightweaver only.

    I agree only in the context that if you are in an EQ or any kind of quest with a Techer or even Bouncers, then you will fully benefit from having Critical Damage SSAs and Mysterious Purpose since they will get you to 100% Critical Chance even before you trigger High Voltage.

    I disagree in situations where you are doing pug/solo runs of quests or EQs and there is no Bouncer or Techer (which is very common) around that can boost your Crit chance. As we know, every one has a 5% Crit Chance by default. Critical Ring paired with that jumps it up to 25%. S5 Mysterious for its 20% gives us 45%. Depending on the boss, it takes roughly around 25-30 seconds to get your Voltage high enough from zero for the 25% Crit Chance from High Voltage. So then you're sitting at 70%. I'm excluding S6 Wise Skill from this because that is not feasible in the sense that while it is available from a few quests one can do to obtain it, the chance of getting that specific S6 yet alone a Rear drop with it on it is very slim unless you get really lucky.

    In the case of Lightweaver and in the event that people can only afford Crit DMG SSAs during the long window you have building up Voltage to get the benefit of High Voltage's Crit Chance if no Techer or Bouncer is involved, you are absolutely going to get outdpsed by some one running the BiS S1-S3 SSAs of Red Petal Flash, Rainbow's Intent and Nature's Melody 2. Once you do have the benefit of High Voltage and don't lose it, you still have a 30% chance of not critting which still puts you at a disadvantage from not benefitting on S5's Crit DMG and Crit DMG SSAs if you choose to run those.

    In this sense, it would absolutely make sense for S5 Tethered Eclipse to be a better option than S5 Mysterious Purpose if you can't get your crit high enough without a Bouncer/Techer or S6 Wise Skill to fully benefit from it. Though since we know Jellen doesn't count as a Status Effect for most things and Tethered Eclipse does not work for it, that's not a possible option. In this case, I would actually say S5 Vigorous Response is a much stronger option than Mysterious Purpose if you can hit the 2k HP threshold while still having high ATK and PP affixes on Units.
    Those statements operate on a lot of assumptions regarding tethered eclipse. I still personally think while vigorous might be worth if you can get your HP pool up there with OP affixes, Mysterious is still the better S5 choice.

    - your calculation forgot Tech arts upping crit rate which is huge. 5 + 25 (arts) +20(ring) +20(purpose) is already 70, with high voltage pushing it at 95. if you got wise skill, just TAJAing puts you at 85% crit, which is more than enough to go for crit SSAs
    - You don't have to necessarily go full crit route on your weapon, especially cras if you do not have S6. S1 and S2 can easily be stuff non crit related like red petal + rainbow intent, and only get skilled intent 2(at 70% crit, the average already beats most things aside from Double edged S3, the one you choose is up to you depending on whether or not you're ok taking 8% more damage). This way, even with the lower crit rate from solo, your damage is less impacted whenever you don't crit.
    - The heal part of the S5 is very very key for Luster, as it has so many multi-hits that you literally never have to stop and heal, which means no gear or time wasted on the special megiverse action. It's an indirect but significant uptime increase.

  6. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyrion View Post
    Those statements operate on a lot of assumptions regarding tethered eclipse. I still personally think while vigorous might be worth if you can get your HP pool up there with OP affixes, Mysterious is still the better S5 choice.

    - your calculation forgot Tech arts upping crit rate which is huge. 5 + 25 (arts) +20(ring) +20(purpose) is already 70, with high voltage pushing it at 95. if you got wise skill, just TAJAing puts you at 85% crit, which is more than enough to go for crit SSAs
    - You don't have to necessarily go full crit route on your weapon, especially cras if you do not have S6. S1 and S2 can easily be stuff non crit related like red petal + rainbow intent, and only get skilled intent 2(at 70% crit, the average already beats most things aside from Double edged S3, the one you choose is up to you depending on whether or not you're ok taking 8% more damage). This way, even with the lower crit rate from solo, your damage is less impacted whenever you don't crit.
    - The heal part of the S5 is very very key for Luster, as it has so many multi-hits that you literally never have to stop and heal, which means no gear or time wasted on the special megiverse action. It's an indirect but significant uptime increase.
    Ah crap you're right. I did overlook the Tech Arts thing. Guess that's what happens when one types stuff out way early in the morning haha. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

  7. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renzix View Post
    I agree and disagree at the same time about that at least for the context of Lightweaver only.
    I agree only in the context that if you are in an EQ or any kind of quest with a Techer or even Bouncers, then you will fully benefit from having Critical Damage SSAs and Mysterious Purpose since they will get you to 100% Critical Chance even before you trigger High Voltage.
    You should never build your gear and skill tree around the reliance of other classes UNLESS you consistently team run or run with a group of friends who play those classes in org/pug runs to meet these conditions. You gamble things like this every time you pug and while yes, Phantoms are common so Jellen is a givin, it doesn't mean you should spec ALL of your gear with Phrase Decay unless you're playing Hu/Ph/Lu (Fomel), it's a wasted affix slot if you do. What I mentioned has always been this way for years and unless you feel like performing less than you actually could (casual, elitist, w/e) then by all means, don't let me stop you but people tend to tell others not to build around other classes unless again, you're in an organized run or are running specifically with those classes all the time.

    TLDR: don't build your character around other classes, if your classes can't consistently upkeep Jellen naturally then don't affix Phrase Decay. Just don't

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzix View Post
    I disagree in situations where you are doing pug/solo runs of quests or EQs and there is no Bouncer or Techer (which is very common) around that can boost your Crit chance. As we know, every one has a 5% Crit Chance by default. Critical Ring paired with that jumps it up to 25%. S5 Mysterious for its 20% gives us 45%. Depending on the boss, it takes roughly around 25-30 seconds to get your Voltage high enough from zero for the 25% Crit Chance from High Voltage. So then you're sitting at 70%. I'm excluding S6 Wise Skill from this because that is not feasible in the sense that while it is available from a few quests one can do to obtain it, the chance of getting that specific S6 yet alone a Rear drop with it on it is very slim unless you get really lucky.
    Crit will genuinely always be better in the sense of reducing variance over time, you end up coming out with a higher dmg output than you would with just flat dmg increases. If you want to reach high dmg, then the crit route is usually always the best route to go but if you lack some of the stuff to make it there then ya theres nothing wrong with doing normal % increases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzix View Post
    In the case of Lightweaver and in the event that people can only afford Crit DMG SSAs during the long window you have building up Voltage to get the benefit of High Voltage's Crit Chance if no Techer or Bouncer is involved, you are absolutely going to get outdpsed by some one running the BiS S1-S3 SSAs of Red Petal Flash, Rainbow's Intent and Nature's Melody 2. Once you do have the benefit of High Voltage and don't lose it, you still have a 30% chance of not critting which still puts you at a disadvantage from not benefitting on S5's Crit DMG and Crit DMG SSAs if you choose to run those.
    I tend to out DPS those people who use those colored SSA's if I'm playing right but while I'm waiting for Cras units to come to me, that will change pretty soon where I'll out DPS a lot more often than I am now with my current build. You also need to remember that that S3 is one of the most expensive ones out there right now and kinda hard to get to drop so unless people want to drop (what I last saw) around 120mill+ for it, by all means go for it. Also pretty sure it's not currently the BEST but is very up there for SSA setups, also pretty sure having to proc Red Petals effect over and over after 30s is still a dmg loss until you meet the 450k dmg again.

    Also that SSA setup lately has been sort of a meme compared to crit builds from what I hear but you can use w/e you want, I personally like my dmg instantly and not having to meet conditions to get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzix View Post
    In this sense, it would absolutely make sense for S5 Tethered Eclipse to be a better option than S5 Mysterious Purpose if you can't get your crit high enough without a Bouncer/Techer or S6 Wise Skill to fully benefit from it. Though since we know Jellen doesn't count as a Status Effect for most things and Tethered Eclipse does not work for it, that's not a possible option. In this case, I would actually say S5 Vigorous Response is a much stronger option than Mysterious Purpose if you can hit the 2k HP threshold while still having high ATK and PP affixes on Units.
    S5 Vigorous Response has been the biggest meme SSA since it released, unless you're joking, this is a bad recommendation to anyone that isn't purposely making a meme build around it or doesn't know any better. So no, it's a not a better option than something that gives you 20% crit, 2% dmg and the coveted Life Steal all in one.


    Zeph already made other key points as well that you already know
    Last edited by ArcaneTechs; Oct 8, 2020 at 07:10 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneTechs View Post
    S5 Vigorous Response has been the biggest meme SSA since it released, unless you're joking, this is a bad recommendation to anyone that isn't purposely making a meme build around it or doesn't know any better. So no, it's a not a better option than something that gives you 20% crit, 2% dmg and the coveted Life Steal all in one.
    Ironically, affix power creep actually made vigorous response not a total meme.
    If you go ham on your unit and weapon affixes with guardian soul and the likes with full cras set, casts and caseals already reach 2000 HP with insanely high defenses, with other races slightly falling under the ball park, and even then it can be solved with a single grand stamina. at 4% damage when being full HP ( well, usually more often at 3.6%), which is honestly the only part you'd ever care about.

    While I don't think that's too hot on Luster, some Et combination, most notably HU/ET can make a big use of it (they don't care about lifesteal in the first place, and guard stance doesn't make building around crit exactly easy anyway). Well all in all it's is still pretty fringe but the fact remains you're technically able to reach the goalpost without making some weird HP builds

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimate View Post
    I believe nothing you do (normals, quick slashes, slash rise/fall etc.) interrupts JA multi bonus unless you lose the JA circle
    Thanks for all the info!

    I changed my Liberate gs to fire and my Lumigunny to Lightning, both this and Atlas ex are only 5% weaker than Liberate at full HP (4% of which coming from S5 Vigorous Response) when accounting for crit as well so I won't bother getting new gses.

    I tried mathing up what's the best way to recover pp but it's way too complex when you factor in gear and voltage. I realized on lu main switching to a pp battery gs and making use of complete rest is pointless, but it is amazing when you sub lu, especially if like you me you can recover 169pp in 3s.

    I also noticed step slide advance refills nearly half a gear bar as does slash rise / fall (both do about 2/3 regular pa damage for ~8pp considering pp regen) but a 4x normal combo refills almost 3 gear bars so I guess it's probably best to use this once you run out of gear as you are likely going to end up with 3 full bars at the end or right after the end for more enhanced brand extension.

    A couple more questions...

    A)How much dps depends on style, i.e. how often should I use style purge?

    B) Is there a reliable way to get Fomel Photon Clusters with a laggy connection (it's so bad rdr boosted eqs always have enemies teleport around randomly)?

    C) how good is Fomel (normal x4 > 3 bar charged weapon action > repeat) as combo?

    D) How do Baran guard points in pas work, can I time a pa like step because of a gaurd point at the beginning? And is it normal pa only or also enhanced pa?

    PS: I noticed gs damage with lu sub depends heavily on the main class and not how you think it would, FiLu has onyl 5-10% more damage than FiHu but FoLu has 200% mre damage than FoEt with Et sub having striking and ranged multipliers only 5% or so lower than hu sub.
    Kinda ironic Lu subs gives Fo (and probably other teching classes) powerful gs use.

    PPS: If you can get to 2000+ HP with guts drink ex S5 Vigorous Response is op. It's a single slot in a place where almost everything is limited to a specific weapon type but offers several powerful buffs. The damage res and HP regen are neat but of no consequence (though together pretty good for other ssa slots) but the up to 4% dmg buff added on top makes it very useful and if you got 2500+ HP you can also keep hp high fairly easily to keep get a high amount of that 4% dmg boost.

    In short, better than Mysterious Purpose and better than some weapon specific S5 as long as you have the HP and considering UH enemies can do 1000+ damage and bosses 1500+ high base HP are necessary to not be a fragile glass cannon anyway.
    Getting to 2500 HP with Guts drink ex isn't that hard if you add just a bit more HP on your units than you'd normally would.
    Last edited by mother clusterfck; Oct 8, 2020 at 09:18 PM.

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyrion View Post
    Ironically, affix power creep actually made vigorous response not a total meme.
    If you go ham on your unit and weapon affixes with guardian soul and the likes with full cras set, casts and caseals already reach 2000 HP with insanely high defenses, with other races slightly falling under the ball park, and even then it can be solved with a single grand stamina. at 4% damage when being full HP ( well, usually more often at 3.6%), which is honestly the only part you'd ever care about.

    While I don't think that's too hot on Luster, some Et combination, most notably HU/ET can make a big use of it (they don't care about lifesteal in the first place, and guard stance doesn't make building around crit exactly easy anyway). Well all in all it's is still pretty fringe but the fact remains you're technically able to reach the goalpost without making some weird HP builds
    if the person was really willing to reach that criteria (while whaling/spending a lot on the top affixes) then sure, I suppose its an okay option. I still wouldnt suggest and the average player isnt going to bother doing high end Guardian soul affixes either so I know if someone else was doing this, they would be sacrificing stats elsewhere for a meager gain, which is the issue with the SSA itself. I figured you would have mentioned Hu's which is why I didn't point it out specifically, something like Luster though, big no from me

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

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