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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    you're own skills are what come into play here, Hu/Ets are almost unkillable with how much defense the class has. with the amount of Hp you have, you shouldn't be remotely struggling to stay alive
    Maybe I misunderstood people when they said unkillable and tank, but without Automate youre dead under 2mins even with 5500HP if you don't dodge/guard/charge parry anything at all, Et HP restorate can't keep up with the incoming damage.
    For me, unkillable=take hits to the face without being killed and not unkillable=charge parry.
    Quote Originally Posted by FluxDMC View Post
    "Expert" players have no lives in plain English because being good at a game is much more important then family and friends lol.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralf542 View Post
    Maybe I misunderstood people when they said unkillable and tank, but without Automate youre dead under 2mins even with 5500HP if you don't dodge/guard/charge parry anything at all, Et HP restorate can't keep up with the incoming damage.
    For me, unkillable=take hits to the face without being killed and not unkillable=charge parry.
    i misread the post, i was thinking you were somehow struggling to stay alive with the sub on top of Hu's def skills, glossed over Et Restorate for some reason but I agree, the skill doesn't keep up enough to rely on it especially with an Hp as high as yours.

    I said what I said about Et Restorate though out of experience, it literally recovers too slow and not enough to rely on it to keep you alive over just stopping and recovering with mates. If people think they can rely on it, then they can get it but I'm not recommending it to anyone, it would either need a speed buff to the recovery rate or an increased amount recovered to make it more reliable regardless if you're dodging, countering, parrying w/e

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralf542 View Post
    Maybe I misunderstood people when they said unkillable and tank, but without Automate youre dead under 2mins even with 5500HP if you don't dodge/guard/charge parry anything at all, Et HP restorate can't keep up with the incoming damage.
    For me, unkillable=take hits to the face without being killed and not unkillable=charge parry.
    For the vast majority people it means normal play makes you invincible, almost no one honestly expects to become an SAO style immovable object that can never be killed.
    This would obviously be absurdly op so generally no one thinks it's possible without sacrificing like 75% of your damage or something but all tank builds in this game obviously still have competitive dps.

    Anyway, nice general guide to see stuff in one place but I noticed a few issues.

    Also, Iron Will is absolutely mandatory on Hu. Regardless of the rest of the build, you have to put at least 1 sp into because it's a 30% chance to survive instead of dying, few skills have a payout this good.

    As for TeFi, fi sub is now niche for virtually everything except hu because et sub is so damn strong for damage and also has high survivability, in fact et sub is so good it's almost the same as hu sub for striking damage and it only really comes down to which type of survivability you prefer.

    Well, tbh not sure how good gufi compares to guet for sroll arts after the nerf since I don't ever get enough aggro for sroll arts to be good in the first place as you need groups of 4-5 mobs to frequently come into range but at best I get 2-3 (sroll arts aoe isn't that big)

    I tested and tefi has both less tech and less wand pa damage than teet. Wand normals damage is only marginally stronger on fi with brave proccing as well.

    If you use wise stance which is highly unreliable, even a 50% proc rate means you still have a little bit less damage than using et sub for striking damage and et's tech damage buff is a massive 45% so even with an impossible 100% wise stance proc rate (even solo as enemies turn far faster than players can position themselves to hit from behind) you'd just have 10% more damage than using et sub.

    Also, I don't think your te tree makes any sense since PP Restorate is a very important skill for every Te main or sub build but you put only a single SP into it. And maxing Shifta / Deband Advance is a waste of SP because in the end it's only a very small extra buff compered to the SP you have to put into them to get the good skills.

    This is my Te main build for TeEt: https://bit.ly/3cHngvW
    Which makes a lot more sense tbh. A few sp come down to personal preference:
    - 7-8% wind damage missing (after multiplying and depending on how the game rounds numbers) vs the full 44%

    - 20% Shifta Crit vs 5% or 0%

    - maxing PP Convert since at 90% max HP it's no longer a risk, just realized PP Convert is probably pointless in general since you could instead train yourself to stand still for a bit once in a while to regen pp rapidly instead, still you put 3 sp into which is pretty pointless

    - Maxing Territory PP Save vs only 1SP (or 0sp), it's only truly important on support te main but in that case even spamming zanverse you have more time to regen pp anyway, especially with the maxed PP Pestorate (Zanverse lasts 4s, 1s to proc Restorate standing still pp regen speed or switch to some gs and back or whatever)

    I calculated the damage multipliers for several subclasses and damage types and

    Victory Shout on hero is purely for aggro because step > tmg ja reload is 33pp and can be spammed to regen pp considerably faster than normal tmg ja reload (though you already marked it as optional anyway).

    On PH attack jellen does not proc often unless you use techs, but if you want to use katana or rifle you won't use techs much and ph is much more than a casting class so this happens often enough, no point not getting ph time jellen plus not to mention jellen duration is important because you cannot attack all targets all the time and if jellen wears off so does any bonus you get from the target having jellen. Certainly a better use of sp than pp high up since that is still not much compared to having a good amount of pp affixed to your gear.
    Lord of Thorn is pretty good if you put a few sp into it but if you want to use mark pp drain / heal it's not a good idea because it's rare to hit stage 2 marks on anything but bosses, making those skills less useful.

    On et Wand F. Dash is CRAP. It makes you very hard to control and not just makes wand a lot less fun and in fact reduces dps simply because you have a hard time to re-position yourself properly

    TBH BrEt is kinda iffy for bow because you have to proc Tech Arts Count Bonus to get more damage than hu sub and on bow only Sharp Bomber T0 is really reliable and all other bow pas are situational so you have to learn which bow pa rotation to use in which situation and they are changing rapidly based on range, etc. for a mere 11% more damage over hu sub and only if you don't lose dps from using the wrong bow pa to proc Tech Arts Count Bonus.

    PS: in case someone mentions it, BoPh is overhyped and you cannot in fact use 2 techs to max gear it is only like 90% and due to the absurdly small range and aoe of Vinto's kick (I can literally clip into enemy models and still miss) you WILL lose a lot of dps if you spam it enough to justify Ph sub unless you have Serpen Plazer to triple range and aoe which is drop only and even then I doubt it's as good as hu sub since you will be using a lot of weak techs all the time to max gear, not to mention all the survivability Hu brings.

  4. #24

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    alright so I'm going to for some reason, spend time on your post because the least you could have done was kept your post somewhat organized that I had to (i think) post your Te comments in order because you drift back and forth on it while talking about other classes

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    Also, Iron Will is absolutely mandatory on Hu. Regardless of the rest of the build, you have to put at least 1 sp into because it's a 30% chance to survive instead of dying, few skills have a payout this good.
    You still don't have grab it, if you're good with the class, Automate is all you need. 1,6 or 10 SP into IW is a choice of preference

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    As for TeFi, fi sub is now niche for virtually everything except hu because et sub is so damn strong for damage and also has high survivability, in fact et sub is so good it's almost the same as hu sub for striking damage and it only really comes down to which type of survivability you prefer.

    I tested and tefi has both less tech and less wand pa damage than teet. Wand normals damage is only marginally stronger on fi with brave proccing as well.

    If you use wise stance which is highly unreliable, even a 50% proc rate means you still have a little bit less damage than using et sub for striking damage and et's tech damage buff is a massive 45% so even with an impossible 100% wise stance proc rate (even solo as enemies turn far faster than players can position themselves to hit from behind) you'd just have 10% more damage than using et sub.

    Also, I don't think your te tree makes any sense since PP Restorate is a very important skill for every Te main or sub build but you put only a single SP into it. And maxing Shifta / Deband Advance is a waste of SP because in the end it's only a very small extra buff compered to the SP you have to put into them to get the good skills.

    This is my Te main build for TeEt: https://bit.ly/3cHngvW
    Which makes a lot more sense tbh. A few sp come down to personal preference:
    - 7-8% wind damage missing (after multiplying and depending on how the game rounds numbers) vs the full 44%

    - 20% Shifta Crit vs 5% or 0%

    - maxing PP Convert since at 90% max HP it's no longer a risk, just realized PP Convert is probably pointless in general since you could instead train yourself to stand still for a bit once in a while to regen pp rapidly instead, still you put 3 sp into which is pretty pointless

    - Maxing Territory PP Save vs only 1SP (or 0sp), it's only truly important on support te main but in that case even spamming zanverse you have more time to regen pp anyway, especially with the maxed PP Pestorate (Zanverse lasts 4s, 1s to proc Restorate standing still pp regen speed or switch to some gs and back or whatever)
    -Te/Fi is there because Xrosblader yelled at me about it and NA players don't have Phantom yet so it's a choice more for NA than it is for JP (something you obviously didn't pick up on)
    -Don't care about Te/Et vs Te/Fi, re-read what I said above
    -Wise Stance is bad in most cases mmkay? re-read my first line of text again
    -Again, Xrosblader complained about Compound Tech dmg, something that Te/Ph's actually use pretty often, if you want more SP into PP Restorate/Convert then take points out of wherever you want and do that but you need to remember, Genon Talis exists which makes Te's PP recover skills incredibly trivial.
    -S/D Advance skills are not a waste of SP, please try and be a better Te
    -Element Masteries are for boosting Compound Tech dmg, if you're lowering the Mastery levels, you're lowering your Compound Tech dmg, you can pick and choose whether or not you want to max some or none.
    -Choice on maxing Territory PP Save skill again

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    Well, tbh not sure how good gufi compares to guet for sroll arts after the nerf since I don't ever get enough aggro for sroll arts to be good in the first place as you need groups of 4-5 mobs to frequently come into range but at best I get 2-3 (sroll arts aoe isn't that big)
    Gu/Fi is still better overall better, despite the nerf awhile back to SRoll Arts, it doesn't do as much on Gu/Et since you're also losing 50% because no JA. It also sounds like you don't play the class enough to know so consider doing more research

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    Victory Shout on hero is purely for aggro because step > tmg ja reload is 33pp and can be spammed to regen pp considerably faster than normal tmg ja reload (though you already marked it as optional anyway).
    It's an optional skill outside the useful Aggro sometimes, borderline not worth grabbing if you're TMGs are built around being a battery

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    On PH attack jellen does not proc often unless you use techs, but if you want to use katana or rifle you won't use techs much and ph is much more than a casting class so this happens often enough, no point not getting ph time jellen plus not to mention jellen duration is important because you cannot attack all targets all the time and if jellen wears off so does any bonus you get from the target having jellen. Certainly a better use of sp than pp high up since that is still not much compared to having a good amount of pp affixed to your gear.
    Lord of Thorn is pretty good if you put a few sp into it but if you want to use mark pp drain / heal it's not a good idea because it's rare to hit stage 2 marks on anything but bosses, making those skills less useful.
    Couple of things
    -Katana and Rifle proc Jellen on enemies just fine, 2-3 SP into that skill is enough for another reset to proc and continue Jellen
    -You don't use Rifle in UH content in general, if you are, you're doing your lowest DPS possible compared to Rod/Katana
    -Phantoms dmg/crit comes from having high PP, if you're not doing this, you crippling yourself for no reason. So yes, the extra 10 PP from PP High Up is worth it
    -You don't sacrifice other stats for purely PP, at this point you give the impression that your units are either poorly affixed or just not affixed properly at all (includes unit of choice)
    -It's not rare to hit stage 2, again though, those are optional grabs, if anything Mark Heal is the most useless one out of the 2. I find Mark PP Drain the most useful but thats my preference, other people opt out of them

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    On et Wand F. Dash is CRAP. It makes you very hard to control and not just makes wand a lot less fun and in fact reduces dps simply because you have a hard time to re-position yourself properly
    Get better at using Wand, the skill is not useless whatsoever

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    TBH BrEt is kinda iffy for bow because you have to proc Tech Arts Count Bonus to get more damage than hu sub and on bow only Sharp Bomber T0 is really reliable and all other bow pas are situational so you have to learn which bow pa rotation to use in which situation and they are changing rapidly based on range, etc. for a mere 11% more damage over hu sub and only if you don't lose dps from using the wrong bow pa to proc Tech Arts Count Bonus.
    I'm going to take Milandruils advice/build over your advice since he's basically one of the top Br players in the game and in this day in age, I wouldn't be using Hu sub over Ra sub if I was a Bow main

    Quote Originally Posted by mother clusterfck View Post
    PS: in case someone mentions it, BoPh is overhyped and you cannot in fact use 2 techs to max gear it is only like 90% and due to the absurdly small range and aoe of Vinto's kick (I can literally clip into enemy models and still miss) you WILL lose a lot of dps if you spam it enough to justify Ph sub unless you have Serpen Plazer to triple range and aoe which is drop only and even then I doubt it's as good as hu sub since you will be using a lot of weak techs all the time to max gear, not to mention all the survivability Hu brings.
    Oh boy are other Bo players going to tell you something else about Bo/Ph being too good over Bo/Hu for JBs. I don't even main Bo/Ph and what little skill I have put into the combo I can tell you how much wrong you are about your post
    Last edited by ArcaneTechs; Jun 7, 2020 at 12:53 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  5. #25

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    Also, Iron Will is absolutely mandatory on Hu. Regardless of the rest of the build, you have to put at least 1 sp into because it's a 30% chance to survive instead of dying, few skills have a payout this good.
    No it's not. You get like 3 hours for guard frames for charging a PA.

    As for TeFi, fi sub is now niche for virtually everything except hu because et sub is so damn strong for damage and also has high survivability, in fact et sub is so good it's almost the same as hu sub for striking damage and it only really comes down to which type of survivability you prefer.
    Yes but this Thread is for NA and JP players and Te/Fi is their only choice until PH and ET comes out for hybrid gameplay.

    Well, tbh not sure how good gufi compares to guet for sroll arts after the nerf since I don't ever get enough aggro for sroll arts to be good in the first place as you need groups of 4-5 mobs to frequently come into range but at best I get 2-3 (sroll arts aoe isn't that big)
    Guys, please stop forgetting that TMG Stance Ring exists.

    Also, I don't think your te tree makes any sense since PP Restorate is a very important skill for every Te main or sub build but you put only a single SP into it. And maxing Shifta / Deband Advance is a waste of SP because in the end it's only a very small extra buff compered to the SP you have to put into them to get the good skills.
    Most Techters don't max out PP restorate on Mainclass since its a waste of SP. natural PP recovery halts completely when you charge a Tech, perform a tech, charge heavy hammer, swing heavy hammer or perform a compound Tech. and even then 10 SP increases natural PP recovery from 5pp per s to 7pp per s. It's absolutely not worth it and we only spend 1 sp into it to get the "standing still PP recovery buff" otherwise we'd have skipped it alltogether and why if you want PP restoration SSA on your weapon its always best to go for those that restore X amount of PP every few seconds since these ignore your natural PP recovery...

    Secondly Maxing out S/D masteries is not a waste as its a PARTY WIDE boost.even if it ends up being a 0.5% boost that's still a 0.5% boost per player and makes Raid clears significantly faster. This is why we take Shifta Critical as well.

    - Maxing Territory PP Save vs only 1SP (or 0sp), it's only truly important on support te main but in that case even spamming zanverse you have more time to regen pp anyway, especially with the maxed PP Pestorate (Zanverse lasts 4s, 1s to proc Restorate standing still pp regen speed or switch to some gs and back or whatever)
    I don't mean to be rude but if you're standing still and doing absolutely nothing to regen PP you are a deadweight to the MPA. Restoring PP like that is backwards. Grab yourself a Genon Talis with SSA on S2 and S3 that restore 15% max PP when taking damage (30% total) and you'll never have PP issues. Heck you could even norml attack with your wand and still be more useful than standing around waiting for PP restorate to proc.

  6. #26

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    Woah relax guys. Kril made this thread mostly for the new players starting the game and have no idea what they are doing, not for veterans who have already fiddled with their class long enough to know up from down. A new player will go look for a guide or a tree on PSO-W for whatever reason and find that its often buried way deep in past posts and is really outdated. It's just nice to have a reference point.

    The second point of the first post even says: "Class builds are subjective and they always will be for people, casual or hardcore." The most you can do is share some viable off-skill trees to account for preference, but in general a lot of skill choices with the spare SP is just that..preference.

    EDIT: Honestly I like this thread and its helpful, however maybe also include an equipment section with whats the best weapons for each class and s-abilities and how you go about working towards them? Or maybe that could be a separate thread too idk. When I came back to the game I was so lost. Luckily I had friends who were still playing explain divide quests ,the monthly and weekly trade in shops and the recycle shop along with the new s-abilities added. Had I not had anyone explain it all to me I'd probably be super lost would have lost interest quickly.
    Last edited by Coatl; Jun 9, 2020 at 09:03 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenobia View Post
    We threw our eyes away a long time ago.
    #coatl4173 on discord if you wanna squad up.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coatl View Post
    Woah relax guys. Kril made this thread mostly for the new players starting the game and have no idea what they are doing, not for veterans who have already fiddled with their class long enough to know up from down. A new player will go look for a guide or a tree on PSO-W for whatever reason and find that its often buried way deep in past posts and is really outdated. It's just nice to have a reference point.
    I did this for:
    -New/Old Players
    -Starting points
    -The misinformed/unaware
    -Mainly reference to not have people constantly asking for builds, they can come look here or other sources

    Quote Originally Posted by Coatl View Post
    The second point of the first post even says: "Class builds are subjective and they always will be for people, casual or hardcore." The most you can do is share some viable off-skill trees to account for preference, but in general a lot of skill choices with the spare SP is just that..preference.
    I left extra SP on builds for preference because I assume you've done your research on the class and at least have some knowledge of the skills but Xrosblader either didn't catch that or something and I just filled in those extra SP elsewhere.

    If you don't like the builds, you don't have to use them. You don't like where SP is put into, take it out and put it elsewhere. I'm not forcing you to use these but I'll obviously recommend to use them

    Quote Originally Posted by Coatl View Post
    EDIT: Honestly I like this thread and its helpful, however maybe also include an equipment section with whats the best weapons for each class and s-abilities and how you go about working towards them? Or maybe that could be a separate thread too idk. When I came back to the game I was so lost. Luckily I had friends who were still playing explain divide quests ,the monthly and weekly trade in shops and the recycle shop along with the new s-abilities added. Had I not had anyone explain it all to me I'd probably be super lost would have lost interest quickly.
    I'm not going to include Gear recommendations here, it's not the goal of the thread. Thats why I have gear recommendations in the class threads I made for the sake of power creep and to get the idea of what to go for when you're playing the class. I have zero control over the other class threads (frankly I don't want control of all the class threads either, too much work) so I can't update the OP for the ones who made the thread initially that don't come here anymore or don't plan on doing what I've done

    Mainly, I don't feel like doing the math and having debates about questionable weapons (example: Oblisana, Prize Medal weapons, Exo/DQ 15* trade shop weps, Seasonal 15*s, etc) for people to use because it works for scenario X over scenario Y and overall for scenario Z.
    Last edited by ArcaneTechs; Jun 9, 2020 at 11:59 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  8. #28

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    can i have a list of which class, main / sub use full dex mag ?
    Last edited by sol_trigger; Jun 9, 2020 at 05:58 PM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by sol_trigger View Post
    can i have a list of which class, main / sub use full dex mag ?
    literally any class that has the Dex converted into atk mag skill

    Braver
    Bouncer
    Phantom

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  10. #30

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    are s roll up and s roll art even worth it ? they don't seem to do anything for me

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