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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneTechs View Post
    i only like NT grinding because its super easy for casuals to upgrade their gear, I absolutely hated the OT grinding because casuals wouldn't upgrade their gear fully (even though they do this now still for some reason) and uhhh elitism here, they sort of become a small burden to the group because of lack of DPS from their gear not being full upgraded (just grinded, not necessarily affixed).

    I mean, we can go back to PSU's grind system, most of us loved that right?



    I don't agree with you, JA's are already so low effort its habit for everyone at this point. Really no reason to remove JA's in the first place

    Maybe so. But still.
    PSO2 (NA):

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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreetFighter2242 View Post
    Maybe so. But still.
    but still what? its second hand nature once you learn the game, i dont even get how doing JA's is stressful either. either you do them or you dont

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen Erra View Post
    How does one hate NT grinding? Really makes no sense to me to hate something like that. 'Specially because it's much easier than OT grinding.
    I find it so wasteful and unnecessarily time-consuming if you wanna go for +35. It's hell for playstyles that require rainbow palettes.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneTechs View Post
    but still what? its second hand nature once you learn the game, i dont even get how doing JA's is stressful either. either you do them or you dont
    JAs have always been kinda silly. Most attacks use the same rhythm so it gets old really quickly.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by rokkuman View Post
    JAs have always been kinda silly. Most attacks use the same rhythm so it gets old really quickly.
    That's not exactly true. JA actually used to balance out a lot of things for old classes with tight and late JAs which actually forced you to focus on your timings. With Hero coming out and subsequent patches, a lot of JAs were relaxed to match that of successors classes. Successors themselves made the JAs more of a commodity you don't plan around due to how lax they are. They also added first blood and tech JA addition, which, while they were super comfy upgrades, also killed the whole "keeping combos up at all costs because breaking them actually hurts your DPS" which contributed to relegate JAs to "flavor"

    In a sense the purpose and intent of JAs kinda got lost with the massive power creep and accessibility creep fostered by successors. Hell of a novel just to say JA has not always been just a silly extra mechanic, they were an integral part of the game balance that just evolved to become what it is through the long lifespan of the game. Getting rid of them entirely is the obvious next step, but the nostalgia fag I am would wish to see NGS as a chance to reboot the JA deal and give it relevance again, maybe in a different form rather than scrapping it altogether
    Last edited by Zephyrion; Dec 20, 2020 at 09:32 PM.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by rokkuman View Post
    JAs have always been kinda silly. Most attacks use the same rhythm so it gets old really quickly.
    it gets old quickly therefor its okay to remove them, ya nah not a good enough reason.

    i agree with what most of zeph said tho

    Quote Originally Posted by the_importer_ View Post
    Tell you what mate, I'll decide when my topic goes into the QQ post or when it needs to be it's own thing, and you can do the same for yours. Alright, cool. Cheers

  7. #27

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    I do wonder over the decision for Mags to no longer provide battle support. On the other hand, if the Mags are as expressive without the need to talk like the Region Mags then I guess I'm fine with the change.

    I'm also really impressed with how Trials and UQs incorporate movement and combat so seamlessly. I guess they learned a lot from the Vegas map in PSO2.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by rokkuman View Post
    I find it so wasteful and unnecessarily time-consuming if you wanna go for +35. It's hell for playstyles that require rainbow palettes.
    While I agree, that it's bullshit, that trade weapons and stuff are usually +30 only, it's much more horrors for me to grind an OT weapon to +10 3 times in order to get it's potential Lv3.
    Iunno how much money and support items went down the drain for weapons that went +8, +9, +8, +9 back and forth, a couple times. In that sense OT grinding was obnoxious to me
    and I appreciate much more, that NT weapons can't fail.

    I would appreciate it, if they would get rid of the possibility to get to +35, entirely. That would solve just about all problems.

    Main Characters:
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  9. #29
    Hardcore Casual Dark Mits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneTechs View Post
    Go figure we weren't going to leave the main/sub class system this time around but im absolutely hoping we dont get the same situation now in PSO2 with current main/sub meta's and that includes the new subclass weapon swap system which again, hoping the main class stuff doesnt come back again and actually allowing us to use everything that isn't limited to specific rarities and the like down the road. The skills on the trees are going to have play a part into this so the situation I mentioned doesnt necessarily happen again.
    It's impossible to avoid a meta; as long as something is "better" (even if by 0.0001%) then it becomes meta. Balancing the magnitude of difference in performance between different options serves to only limit lashing out to players who do not follow the meta.

    Regarding the removal of JA as a mechanic, I see it as both good and bad. For one, the more mechanics a player has to take into account, the higher the skill cap of the game and the easier it is for better players to shine and be rewarded for their "better-ness" (I don't know the english word).
    On the other hand, combat in PSO2 during its lifetime has changed from slower-paced to very-fast. JAs in their initial state would be impossible to take advantage of in a fight like Shiva or Execour. In early game very few non-boss enemy abilities would knockdown/knockback/flinch the players, whereas in EP6 nearly every enemy ability is at least a flinch. Bosses like TPD do not have abilities that do not flinch. Most abilities also give the players barely 1 second to react, and they rely on players having memorized the enemy pattern than reacting to on-screen cues. So whereas in early years getting hit would simply slightly delay PA/Tech execution and necessitate the use of a -mate after taking damage, in late years getting hit literally nullifies any attack that is being charged, and also further punishes the player if they fail the JA window for getting back on their feet. That is, if they don't outright kill the player from full hp.
    Changing JAs to provide something other than a damage boost would be weird to implement. Even if instead of increased damage they provided less PP cost, it turns out as a damage buff albeit indirect. Non-combat bonuses do not make sense either; get meseta for JA-ing? Get more red meat?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneTechs View Post
    I absolutely hated the OT grinding because casuals wouldn't upgrade their gear fully (even though they do this now still for some reason) and uhhh elitism here, they sort of become a small burden to the group because of lack of DPS from their gear not being full upgraded (just grinded, not necessarily affixed).
    PSO2's combat is a lot more skill-based than gear-based. Even an extra 50% from proper subclassing, grinding, affixing and weapon selection cannot match the extra performance gained from being good in avoiding enemy attacks, hitting proper targets, using gap-closers effectively etc.
    And let's be honest, Dudu failing you once at 99% and setting you back tens of millions of meseta is enough to make a player go "**** this" and refuse to perform any action that is not 100% guaranteed. Just because the earlier system of "you failed grinding, your item is now deleted or permanently damaged" was worse, does not mean we should tolerate the current system which can still leave you at a worse state because of a dice roll.
    Last edited by Dark Mits; Dec 21, 2020 at 05:15 AM. Reason: Fixing Borken Englisch

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    Basically, it's fine if it's less stressful in that aspect because there are other ways for them to do that now.
    See the issue is that "engagement" has slowly shifted to reacting to the enemy's attacks and mobility as PSO2 went by, and that approach is just not as versatile because you can't expect fodder enemies to be all that deep mechanically. Thus for long stretches of time you're left with nothing but button spam(them changing to a 5 hits combo system with a large part of your overall damage at the end is also worrying to me in that regard).
    Obviously, it's not like that issue didn't exist with JAs in the game. Still, I don't think taking them away is going to help. Also, it gave the series flair, but I mean, you and I have already been over that.

    In general though, I guess either people underestimate the mechanic's qualities, or I get bored easier than most, idk.

    In other news, anybody knows why there are that many dislikes on the broadcast? I didn't really see anything contentious, except the genderless part maybe... please someone tell me that's not the reason.
    Last edited by Cyclon; Dec 21, 2020 at 06:03 AM.

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