How do you feel about the immigration bills and protests?

[InfinityXXX]

Hmmm? Express yourself.


I personally, tried to keep neutral on this but I feel that the borders do need to be tightened up(whats so bad about comming here legally).I feel that the illegal immigrants here should "not" be deported, just let them be.

I love the fact of standing up for yourself but I don't get why they're protesting something thats only gonna reinforce what is already going on. Maybe its because of fear of deportation but I highly doubt thats going to happen.

My uncle lives in houston and he told me that he liked the fact of standing up(the walking out) but he didn't like the fact that there are some kids and young aduts were using the protests for just ditching school and not even knowing what they were protesting. He also was telling me that he didn't like the fact that there were SOOO many hispanic flags but barely any american flags yet the people protesting are in america, came here volunatrily, and plan on being here.
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I don't like how Mexico's president is critisizing America over these bills but Mexicos illegal immigrant policy is far more harsher than ours.

I also don't like how certain activist that are protesting the bills and organizing the walk outs are trying to compare the "protests" to the civil rights movement of the 60's and 70's when the two cannot be compared. No one isn't opppresing them, no one is spraying water hoses on them and no ones getting hurt(by hurt i mean lynching and stuff) and no one ever forced illegal immigrants to come over here.

I'm gettin sick and tired of magazines, the local news and people on the world news trying to compare the protests to the civil rights movement. It's a slap in the face to all activist of that time.(black panthers, naacp members, quakers, etc)

[Dangerous55]

Whoa man we actually agree.

All of them here already should stay, and the border should be reinforced so no illegals can get in. They could be hardworking people, or they could be murderers, drug dealers or terrorists passign through. I think it is a massive gap in our national security. From what I hear it is a mad house down there, on the Mexican side hundreds of killing and gunbattles with them spilling over here sometimes.

Also, it bothers me when the people defending illegals say "No Americans will do the jobs they do." Isn't that saying your people are not as good as we are? It is like they are stunting the growth of their people here.

I don't know, seems like a simple problem. Stop the illegal activity(thousands of undocumented people pouring over our border). It is not racist, no bigotry is involved. Let the ones here stay though, and give them citizenship if they are decent hardworking people.

[Kent]

I think illegal immigrants should be deported. If they want to live here, they should do it the legal way - that's all there is to it.

[Dangerous55]

On 2006-03-31 13:27, Kent wrote:
I think illegal immigrants should be deported. If they want to live here, they should do it the legal way - that's all there is to it.

True but I think we should compromise, let them stay unless they get in trouble before citizens. If they do deport them. Just don't let anymore in illegaly.

[Dreadlock]

So many people get across the border every single day. A few border patrols cannot handle it, so they want to take extreme measures. They argue that "If a person can just run straight from Mexico across the border and into the U.S, what's to stop a terrorist from doing the same thing?" Thing is..this whole fear of terrorism is blown out of hand.

[ABDUR101]

I'm with Infinity and D55.

If you're going to come, be an american, integrate. Part of being an american is enjoying your culture, your heritage, but also embracing the fact that you are an American. Learn the language, if anything, out of respect.

As for them doing 'jobs that no one else wants to do". Well you know what, maybe if we did'nt have people who are more than willing to work for less than $5 an hour for the jobs that appearently 'we' don't want to do, and people actually got fair wages for doing them, more of 'us' would want to do them. You know why no one 'wants' do to those kind of jobs? Because no one can fucking live off minimum wage(which hasn't gone up in a LONG DAMN TIME, unlike inflation). Shit, if I was payed decent for mopping a floor, trust me, I'd be doing it, rather than frying my damn skull over medicare paperwork and calling POA's and Doctors and checking medical histories.

So yeah, it's not that we can't bring ourselves to do mere labor, it's that you don't get payed for shit to do it, because, guess what, people coming from below the border will do it for practically 'nothing'. You know why? Because what we consider 'practically nothing' is alot to them. Our minimum wage is GOOD money for them. Expecially when it's under the table, tax free, and if they're going back below the border to live off it, yeah, it's very decent. Go work for a while in America, then go back home and enjoy your earnings.

And yeah, it's nothing to do with racism. Thats a lame card to be pulled. Race has nothing to do with it. If Canadians were doing the same thing, bet your sweet as we'd call them on it.

[RicoRoyal]

On 2006-03-31 13:27, Kent wrote:
I think illegal immigrants should be deported. If they want to live here, they should do it the legal way - that's all there is to it.

If only things were so simple. I mean, really, we're talking about estimates of about 10 million illegal immigrants living on U.S. soil (and I'm sure these numbers are underestimates). Numbers alone make your simplistic view impossible. Deport 10 million? Not in this life time.

Putting numbers aside, I really think you're dehumanizing the issue. These are people from all walks of life. Are all of these 10 million people respectable human beings? No. But then again, neither are all legal citizens. Just as there are trouble makers and the like (legal and illegal), I'm sure that many of these 10 million strive to be normal people, much like many of us here. These are people with families and employment just like so many others. These 10 million people have faces - they have feelings. Your stance on the issue seems fairly close-minded and to me, brutally cold and unreasonable.

Also, Kent, "the legal way" is, in my opinion, a broken system. There are families who wish to immigrate to the United States out of neccessity. I don't just mean Mexicans, either, mind you. I'm talking about immigrants from all over the world, who for some reason or another can no longer continue living lives of poverty in their home countries. These people see the United States as beacon of hope, as second chance at life. The "legal way" can take up to 25 years, given the state of things (the system if completely clogged/backed up because of the demand). Waiting 25 years to be able to cross a border, or to walk off a ship or airplane onto U.S. soil legally is asking too much of these people who wish to be here (in the U.S.). We're talking about a whole generation's worth of opportunity, completely lost. People who still choose to become residents the legal way have my respect and admiration. I believe these people think more of their children's futures than they do of their own.

Today, I am a U.S. Resident. I was not one of those people who waited 25 years, nor were my parents. I immigrated to California illegally from Mexico. Today, I'm a legal resident working on a Bachelor's of Science in Aerospace Engineering at a well-respected University. I have plans of contributing greatly to this great country. I know people who have the same dreams and aspirations that I do (and who are working on recieving similar degrees), but who still lack legal documents to reside within the country. These people would probably not be who they are today if they would have stayed behind in their countries of origin.

Deporting these individuals would prove disastrous to them. They have nothing to go back to (as they have studied almost exclusively here), and unless they somehow obtain legal residence soon, they will also have nothing to look forward to here. They are stuck in limbo with the current laws in place. They live in fear of deportation and they lack the ability to contribute to the advancement of this country because it would be illegal to employ them in their current situation. Kent, were you a person in charge of doing so, would you really deport these people? Would you have deported me too? It just seems wrong to me.

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In anycase, I'm really with Infinity and Dangerous on what this country's next course of action should be. Some kind of compromise needs to reached. The bill on the discussion table holds alot of potential to be lopsided either which way (pro or anti immigration). Much of the focus has been on the criminalization of anyone who aids illegal immigrants. Honestly, I doubt that after the demonstrations that we've seen, anything like that would go through. Still, we must be careful about what parts of the Bill manage to pass. Some positive reform needs to take place to benifit those who already reside within the United States while at the same time, something needs to be done about protecting us from foreign danger.

I really wish I could be more specific as to what could be done, but I really lack the education to elaborate on any clear solution to the problems at hand. I will say this though, we aren't heading in the right direction.

As to the whole idea about building a new wall at the border, I need to point some things out. It sounds nice in theory, but I've done reports in the past on the issue of border patrol, and something else needs to be explored beyond ONLY increasing the current systems of protection (cameras, personnel, walls). They do their job as best they can, but they have negative consequence too. The idea behind physically protecting the border has a sort of escalation of arms thing going on. The more cameras and patrol men that are made available, the more ingenious and DANGEROUS the methods become of smuggling human cargo into the country.

I don't have my numbers at hand, but I do recall the jist of what their significance was. Essentially, even though security at the border has increased in the past decade or so, the number of illegal immigrants estimated who reside in the country still continues to grow at a steady rate. Unfortunately, the increased security at the borders has lead to more deaths of innocent people trying to cross over through the Mexican border. People's options for crossing the border illegally grow slimmer as security increases, and as a consequence, people are forced to take increasingly more dangerous paths of entry. More money gets pumped into beefing up the border, but it is having very little positive effect. Also, as a result of increased border security, more illegal immigrants already on U.S. soil fear leaving temporarily (say, for a few years), as they fear being unable to return. In other words, the walls are being closed tighter and tigher, actually causing more illegal immigrants to STAY here. Go figure that one out :/

We need new ideas as to what can be done to benifit everyone, and while we're waiting for that to happen, we need to find compromises to the current bills and propositions at hand.

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Shifting gears here and wishing to come to a form of conclusion, I'll comment about the protests and rallies that have taken place this past week. The peaceful rally of half a million people was, to me, a pure stroke of greatness. No reported incidents of upsets and the rally served its purpose, which was to bring much needed public attention to the immigration bills. Unfortunately, parents these days don't have the kind of control over their children that I think they should. The kids walking out of class and walking onto the 110 freeway was just a hideously ill-concieved idea that I wish had never taken flight. These idiot students have tainted what others accomplished last weekend.

Walking out of class, waving gang signs, almost exclusively carrying Mexican flags, cursing during news interviews in english and speaking broken spanish during interviews in spanish is just not the right way to make your point heard. These students are setting a tremoundously negative image for the people they supposedly wish to represent.

If these kids really want to express their ideas in support of what the weekend's rally stood for, then they need to first and foremost get their ignorant asses back into their classrooms. They need to learn how to speak both English and Spanish in a coherent manner. They need to learn about their government. They need to learn about the peaceful means of protest that were used during the civil rights movement. Also, they need to learn to RESPECT the country that they are currently living in. I see nothing wrong with waving a Mexican flag around, so long as you also hold an even larger United States flag. These kids can feel proud to have parents who come from Mexico (I doubt many of the actual kids originate from there themselves). They can show their pride, but for the love of all things sacred, they need to realize this isn't a conquest to overtake the U.S. The point is to illustrate a desire to live on U.S. soil, not Mexican soil.

With that said... I'm spent.

[InfinityXXX]

Lol @ Dangerous55

I have a question though. Have any of the bills been voted on yet. And if not, do anyone know when they're gonna be voted on?





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: InfinityXXX on 2006-04-01 11:20 ]</font>

[Shattered_weasel]

Like I said in the other "immigration" topic, let's just make the border like the North and South Korean border.

You guys also have to remeber that it is not only Mexicans that are coming over. It is also a nice amount of Cubans, Dominicans, and Chinese everyday. Although if Cubans do get caught we have to give them someplace to stay.