[JeyKama]

PSO is about as much RPG as Diablo is. The only real difference is that Diablo doesn't have a lobby and mobs in Diablo scale up based on the # of players, rather than in PSO where mob hp is tuned for 2-3 players' worth of damage, which is a pain if you play solo. Semantics aside...

Like Diablo, I don't really see "hard mode" as anything more than another levelling path, seeing as there are no non-"hard mode" areas in that level span. There's enough room for "super-ultramegaPRIMEVAL" mode if they go so far as recycle content that much.

That also being said, I fully enjoyed getting my butt whooped by lv35 Dark Ragne despite running +8-10 armors.

[Adelheid]

I agree, I'm just sick of people complaining about an RPG not being hard enough when they could take a simple step or two and achieve the difficulty level they want.

[MasterChuck]

PSO has always been a casual oriented game. The masochists can play Monster Hunter Tri if they want a challenge. lol

[Defend]

Originally Posted by Adelheid

PSO is an RPG, not a platformer. If you overlevel or overgear it's your own fault for the game being easy.

My whole reply to your quote was pointing out how it's not this at all. You seem to have interpreted "I avoid all extra client orders, haven't touched the matter board, and do the minimum necessary" as "I am overleveled." I'm not certain but I don't think I've done any quest even equally leveled with the quest description.

Don't blame the player because he doesn't go to his storehouse before a quest and unequip the common guns that were found in the minimum runs he had done up to that point. For a player playing the normal game - no handouts, no overlevelling, no powerful escorts - the challenge is very low.

Allowing players access to harder challenges if they want doesn't make the game harder or worse for anyone else. All the normal progression is still as available as ever. Why not acknowledge that or provide an actual point to rebutt with if there is one? The only problem you have with this appears to be your impatience with complaining.

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Adelheid

Thats why so many people run a thousand different challenges like half exp no grinding solo Tales of- or Nuzlocke Pokemon.

No, it is not. People do not do challenge runs of Tales games because it's the only way to wrangle any sense of challenge out of the series. They do it because the game has provided them with a broad spectrum of built-in difficulty levels that challenge them to learn and master all of the game's various mechanics, and a half-exp, Unknown/Mania, no-grinding run gives one a chance to exhibit high levels of mastery over all of the game's various mechanics and subsystems.

This is eminently different from the current state of PSO2, where the game's built-in options for difficulty make such lax demands of the player that one is likely to become worse at the game when their level hits the mid-20s, because dodging enemy attacks and waiting for proper openings is almost completely unnecessary - if you just blitz the enemies with your best attacks, most won't even get a chance to take a swing at you, and if they do, they don't really do enough damage to be worth your notice.
Playing missions in PSO2 while solo, with no Mag, no Units and no weapons, is in no reasonable way comparable to an actual challenge run in a game that already has a good difficulty curve. The only point they have in common is the superficial idea that it makes the game "more challenging". One forces the player to adapt and make full use of every resource available to them in the game to win, and the other sacrifices nearly every interesting advancement in Phantasy Star combat made in 11 years and completely removes the multiplayer component from an online-only multiplayer game, and still only results in a level of difficulty that demands excessive amounts of time and patience from the player, while not really demanding any more skill or strategy than a standard Tales game on Hard mode.


It's just not a solution.



Now, having said all that, I don't think PSO2's Hard Mode is entirely beyond salvaging. There are a lot of ways to improve it, and some of them really aren't that much work on Sega's part:

1. Bump up the enemy levels by 10 or so.
Doing the Hard Mode Emergency Mission at level 20, with level ~30 enemies, feels about right. It's not overwhelmingly difficult, but neither is it a total cakewalk. It would be a good level of difficulty to use when trying to ease players into Hard Mode. The Navelius/Amduskia enemies that you can actually fight at level 20, on the other hand, are an absolute joke. The final few Liliipa missions on Normal are actually much, much harder than any non-Emergency Hard Mode content you have access to at level 20. Which means that you're basically grinding in the desert from levels 15 all the way to 25. Not cool.

2. Significantly loosen the level requirement 'gates'.
Hard Mode technically unlocks at level 20, but it's pretty obvious if you actually get up past level 20 that Hard Mode hasn't really started until you hit level 25. Instead of actually having to grind out five levels to advance, there should be more of Koffie's Client Orders that unlock further Hard Mode missions. Ratchet up the difficulty of those quests and put them back in; if you can S-Rank Dagan Extermination and Nav Rappy Capture in 6-7 minutes on Hard, then you can move on to Hard Mode Amduskia; if you can S-Rank Kyatadoran on Hard in 12 minutes, you can go to Liliipa on Hard, etc.

3. Just update the game.
This is not a great solution, but it's by far the easiest one, because we already know it's happening. Hard Mode is particularly disappointing because, at the moment, it picks up (level-wise) where the 'last' Liliipa mission leaves off, on Normal Mode. But as soon as Sega adds in the mountain areas on Navelius, or the underground mines on Liliipa, there are going to be areas that are for level 20-25 characters on Normal Mode, and the pressure will be off of Hard Mode to be the sole place players go to continue their progress. This doesn't solve the game's long-term problems, but it's a pretty decent stopgap measure.

4. Change enemy behavior.
Namely, their speed and their aggression. Whether you play on Normal or whether you play on Hard, go look at the way Udons and Zaudons fight. Udons have a charging attack, but first they roll forward and do a hand stand for about a full second. This is alright for Normal Mode, but on Hard, that charge should basically be one smooth motion, and they should only stand on their hands long enough that you can dodge or block if you're paying close attention. Same with Zaudons and their boulder attacks. Have you ever been hit by a boulder past level 2 or 3? On Hard, they should pick up those boulders and immediately either throw or bash them. If you go back and load up any given version of PSO1, take a little walk into the Forest on Normal, and watch the way a Booma does a slow zombie shuffle-walk toward you. Then go in on Hard and notice just how much faster they are. That's either completely missing from PSO2, or the difference is so subtle that I haven't noticed it. Enemies need to be faster and more aggressive.

5. Change the missions themselves.
A Free Field Volcano mission on Normal is much harder than a Hard Mode Desert mission, if you're trying to do a Code: Elimination while there's a Code: Avoid active, or when a Code: Rescue triggers and you have to go rescue your friend and a Code: Duel pops up when you get there and you have to suddenly fight a Vol Dragon. Increase the frequency of Emergency Codes during all Hard Mode missions, and the difficulty level will be noticeably higher. The Code: Arrest at the end of the Nav Rappy mission would be a different story if it automatically came packaged with a Code: Avoid. And having to contend with a Gwanada attacking you while you're trying to activate the drill platforms in the final Liliipa Arks Quest would change things up significantly.


I'm sure there are more ways that you could improve things - these suggestions were basically stream-of-consciousness off the top of my head - but some combination of these would be a good start and go a long way toward making the game more interesting past level 17 or so, which is currently where it seems to start falling flat on its face.

[Agitated_AT]

Let me add that there should actually be incentive to kill enemies besides grinding. Maybe not entirely difficulty related, I think it's rather stupid how you're able to avoid every enemy as long an emergency event or a goal doesnt stop you. This is really awful game design imho. No good game I know has me killing enemies for no good reason. Let me feel some sort of reason. Baricade me with walls and give me some crazy challenge to give them all I got and take a deep sigh of acomplishment when I can finally continue.

Edit: and I really think this thread didnt deserve to get moved to such a degrading section. Why doesn't this thread have just as much right to be in the pso2 section as the others?

[Nitro Vordex]

Because this thread is full of rants.

[DreXxiN]

I'm just not quite sure what people were expecting...But hey, challenge mode is something we can look forward to if it comes .

Also, Just did Hard City at level 21...now that last boss was FUN. (level 35)

[mctastee]

Originally Posted by Priest

It's not just hard mode, this game is pretty easy in general IMO. And hard desert is sort of a challenge. I just know that on PSO hard mode wasn't anything special either, so I have faith when they add ultimate or w/e.

I agree with this guy. I doubt we will see any real challenge until they come out with very hard.

[Tukky]

Hopefully they do a little editing when it comes to that mode. This isn't first complaint I heard.