[Ezodagrom]

Originally Posted by SupaHype

Ok.. i just text my friend playing MF 20, who used to be FT 20... Her diga is doing about 300 points less at level 45 MF than it was when she played FT 20 over 4000 at level 40... im wondering what is really the benefit here.... The speed of the cast is not necessarily all that different as you dont have to hit a monster too many times with diga to kill it or too many other spells... how many seconds does it take to kill 1 beast... unless its a boss. The 50 percent evasion drop is a killer to MF. the 20 percent boost in defense helps very little, especially when they nerf your hit points by so much. why is it that we all have to spit hairs to determine the real benefits of a new class. Doesnt that mean that there is some sort of problem with it.?

In the time Fortetecher does 3 Diga, a Masterforce can do 4.
So...if FT would do 4300 per hit and MF 4000 per hit:
FT: 4300x3=12900
MF: 4000x4=16000

And the more techs they do, the difference gets bigger.
Another thing, it's also easier for a group of enemies (like a group of Booma) to get closer to a fortetecher than to a masterforce, since their movement will be interrupted more times with a masterforce due to the higher tech speed.

EDIT: JAFO22000 made an example like this before me

[SupaHype]

Originally Posted by Ezodagrom

MF has higher MST than FT (and also higher DFP), but...those two are kinda useless stats...

Thank you Ezodagrom. Do you guys, who have actually played this class really feel like this MF class doesnt need adjusting?

[Sexy_Raine]

Masterforce got the shaft when compared to FM and GM. Gunmaster did not sacrifice anything near as much Masterforce did, and still does more damage with less effort.

I agree with TC, MF was made poorly. I'll be retiring it once I have everything to 50, and bandwagon to Gunmaster until it gets fixed.

[Ezodagrom]

Originally Posted by SupaHype

Thank you Ezodagrom. Do you guys, who have actually played this class really feel like this MF class doesnt need adjusting?

Comparing to Fortetecher and Acrotecher, I think Masterforce is kinda fine. Maybe could have a little more HP, but none of the techer classes replaces the other.
In my opinion, it's all techer classes that should be adjusted. Something like giving ra and gitechs multihit on big enemies and bosses would make not only the techer classes strong when compared to gunners and hunters, but also would make Masterforce quite a bit better than Fortetecher for bosses like De Ragan, since Masterforce would hit it on 5 parts instead of 4.

I haven't tried MF yet though...I want to try it sometime, but was a bit lazy to lvl up WT and also been having problems playing PSU since friday...always lagging and getting disconnected >.<

[SupaHype]

Originally Posted by Ezodagrom

In the time Fortetecher does 3 Diga, a Masterforce can do 4.
So...if FT would do 4300 per hit and MF 4000 per hit:
FT: 4300x3=12900
MF: 4000x4=16000

And the more techs they do, the difference gets bigger.
Another thing, it's also easier for a group of enemies (like a group of Booma) to get closer to a fortetecher than to a masterforce, since their movement will be interrupted more times with a masterforce due to the higher tech speed.

EDIT: JAFO22000 made an example like this before me

I see what yours saying but MF doesnt hit 4000 with Diga, while FT gets real close to 4300. More like 3700 vs 4200

4200x3= 12600 (FT 20 Diga Lev 40)
3700x4= 14400 (MF 20 Diga Lev 45)

Oh, add to this that the FT is level 140 vs the MF is level 150.... These are real stats...

keep in mind that this is under the assumption that you do not have to stop and move while attacking the monster. And if the monster attacks you, you have 50% more chance of getting hit than evading the attack than before. Yes you will take 20% less damage. But with about 30% less hit points that wont make a difference.

[SupaHype]

Originally Posted by Ezodagrom

Comparing to Fortetecher and Acrotecher, I think Masterforce is kinda fine. Maybe could have a little more HP, but none of the techer classes replaces the other.
In my opinion, it's all techer classes that should be adjusted. Something like giving ra and gitechs multihit on big enemies and bosses would make not only the techer classes strong when compared to gunners and hunters, but also would make Masterforce quite a bit better than Fortetecher for bosses like De Ragan, since Masterforce would hit it on 5 parts instead of 4.

I haven't tried MF yet though...I want to try it sometime, but was a bit lazy to lvl up WT and also been having problems playing PSU since friday...always lagging and getting disconnected >.<

OK... Hey, when you switch to MF come find me in the game. My Gamertag is SupaHype and my Char name is Glow 148 newman F..... you will understand what im talking about after you do. The stats are bad, but arguable, but play as the Char and you will understand what i am saying. its unbalanced...it needs work..

[Ezodagrom]

Originally Posted by SupaHype

OK... Hey, when you switch to MF come find me in the game. My Gamertag is SupaHype and my Char name is Glow 148 newman F..... you will understand what im talking about after you do. The stats are bad, but arguable, but play as the Char and you will understand what i am saying. its unbalanced...it needs work..

I'm on pc/ps2

[SupaHype]

Originally Posted by JAFO22000

The only one spitting hairs is you. I'm fine with the class as it is.

You say your friends Diga does 300 less. I'm assuming from your poorly structured paragraph that it did 4000 per hit as a FT and is only doing 3700 as a MF. I'm also assuming this test was done using the same gear and no buffs. 300 more per hit as a FT than a MF. Let's do a little basic number crunching here. Let's say FT does 4000 per hit, but can only get off 8 digas in 10 seconds while a MF (doing 3700 per hit) gets off 10 digas in the same time period (again, these are only estimates). 4000*8 = 32,000 every 10 seconds for a FT vs. 3700*10 = 37,000 every 10 seconds for a MF. Using these unscientific numbers for demonstration purposes only, you can see that a MF would do 5000 more with diga over the same time period.

Ok JAF... tell me This... what damage is your Diga doing now that you are an MF vs what it was doing before as a FT. Im assuming that you have leveled it higher than it was before. Do you feel like your Char is better than you were before? im also assuming that you were a FT 20. And JAF.... YOU ARE REALLY FINE WITH THIS CLASS??? YOU DONT THINK ITS A LITTLE "NERFED" COMPARED TO FT OR EVEN AT, that 50% evasion cut didnt bother you. What about that HP drop.... you let me know. lol

[SupaHype]

Originally Posted by Ezodagrom

I'm on pc/ps2

DARN... ok we will talk later on the boards...

[Ezodagrom]

The only stat I think that should be higher on Masterforce is HP, something like 95% mod at lvl 20 instead of 85%. Fighmaster also has lower stats compared to Fortefighter.
But then there's Gunmaster...the HP mod is only 6% lower than Fortegunner, ATP mod is 4% lower and then there's the 20% more ATA and the speed boost...
The only reason for anyone to play Fortegunner is the grenade launcher, since the stats are so close (except EVP)...