[Sexy_Raine]

*sigh* people who say their fine the way they are have never played one. It pretty much pointless vs. the other 2 master classes. why do we have the weakest defense stats with no support, and don't even do the best offense?

Gunmaster is huge step up from it's forte- counterpart. It doesn't sacrifice anywhere near as much as FT -> MF.There's really no point of MF in a speed run party, might as well make it 6 Gunmasters.

[stukasa]

I think MF could use a little more HP. super_luu is right that it's not fair for techers to have less HP and do less damage than fighters. I'm having a lot of fun with my MF though, despite the low HP. I do damage a lot faster than I did as a fT.

[_K1_]

MF is for team playing, sort of like how pre-AoI PT was. Once most people get it to 20, people will switch between FT (for soloing) and MF (for partying).

AT is a whole nother kettle of fish, and people who enjoy support (myself included) will continue to play and enjoy that class, as it is unparalleled in it's niche. Personally, I love playing in PUGs with MFs... my 41+ buffs and giresta keep them at the top of their game, and I know they appreciate seeing exactly how much damage they can do with top-tier buffs.

I only hope that master classes drive home the fact that blaming a MF for not using buffs or resta is as pointless as blaming a Fighmaster, Fortefighter, Fortegunner, or any other class for not using sols or star atomizers. A purely offensive techer, with no obligation for support (just like gunners and melee'ers had no obligation for support) is just what this game needed. It also makes ATs, FTs, as well as GTs, and WTs that much more valuable.

Originally Posted by biggabertha

The only part I'm complaining about the Master classes is their name...

Maybe something like "Focused Fighter" or whatever would have been fine but a Master does indeed imply the complete dominance over what they're paired with.

The same is true of 'Forte'-classes though, even though they don't get all the S-ranks or the highest-level PAs in their class (eg, FG with twin handguns and mechguns, or FTs with support techs and S rank madoogs). We all thought they'd be the very best, until they got released, anyway.

Originally Posted by Sexy_Raine

Gunmaster is huge step up from it's forte- counterpart. It doesn't sacrifice anywhere near as much as FT -> MF.There's really no point of MF in a speed run party, might as well make it 6 Gunmasters.

Same as FT and FG back in the day. Remember 1UP and MAG and CAST FG only parties? Yeah, things haven't changed at all. MF, like FT, will just have to accept that we won't do the best damage, but rather enjoy the play style. Not ideal, but I don't expect Sega to make anything more balanced.

[Shou]

With the damage that techers do in PSU they should have 3x the amount of HP they have now to balance things out

[Kazemi]

so many people complain about how much tech damage sucks yet they fail to take into consideration that techs never miss. meanwhile melee and ranged attacks can miss quite often (unless its broken jabroga) unless the player doesn't face the enemy head on. so a techer can just stay in the back and nuke everything without ever having to worry about missing (unless their aim sucks). not too shabby really. then you take into consideration the high level of SEs that MF gains with many tier 5 techs and MF arguably rivals the gunner jobs at being the best SE layers (hell, even FT is great at laying down SEs). but i guess most people can only judge damage by how large the BIG NUMBARZ are. guess that's why people are comparing diga here? how often do you really even use that tech? i sure hope its not that often...

at least its finally starting to sink in that the master jobs are just that and not "god jobs." it would seem that ST intended these jobs more for the hardcore players that want the most power they can get out of a combat type. such players will understand how to make the best out of the limitations of the jobs to get the best performance. on top of being able to do what it takes such as maxed job level, maxed out PA levels, decent S gears, know how of the battle type, etc. as it has been mentioned many times already, masters aren't the end all types and aren't meant for everyone (by a long shot).

[Magus_84]

Originally Posted by Kazemi

so many people complain about how much tech damage sucks yet they fail to take into consideration that techs never miss. meanwhile melee and ranged attacks can miss quite often (unless its broken jabroga) unless the player doesn't face the enemy head on. so a techer can just stay in the back and nuke everything without ever having to worry about missing (unless their aim sucks). not too shabby really. then you take into consideration the high level of SEs that MF gains with many tier 5 techs and MF arguably rivals the gunner jobs at being the best SE layers (hell, even FT is great at laying down SEs). but i guess most people can only judge damage by how large the BIG NUMBARZ are. guess that's why people are comparing diga here? how often do you really even use that tech? i sure hope its not that often...

at least its finally starting to sink in that the master jobs are just that and not "god jobs." it would seem that ST intended these jobs more for the hardcore players that want the most power they can get out of a combat type. such players will understand how to make the best out of the limitations of the jobs to get the best performance. on top of being able to do what it takes such as maxed job level, maxed out PA levels, decent S gears, know how of the battle type, etc. as it has been mentioned many times already, masters aren't the end all types and aren't meant for everyone (by a long shot).

I fully agree with your second paragraph. For the first, though...SEs have become less and less useful as fighter/gunner damage has proportionally increased against enemy HP. Even with the SEs available on tier 5 techs.

Attack-preventing statii (Shock/Freeze/Stun/Confuse/Silence etc) are mainly useful when soloing, as in a team they're trumped by either a PT's presence with EX traps or the hefty helpings of death to enemies.

Damaging SEs (Burn/Virus/lolPoison) typically pale in comparison to outright damage.

I'd imagine that if enemies either get a lot more lethal (example: PSO, Episode 2) or take drastic jumps in durability, SEs will be more useful then. If not, they're more a token compensation for giving up more MASSIVE DAMAGE.

And I say this as a player who originally went GT for the multitude of available SE options.

[Finae]

Oh, I like to think of FM as "the god job" :P. After playing FM for so long, I wanted to see how it was like on FF again and I couldn't take how slow they are. I even partied as one in a group and the FMs made look a bit retarded even with all that high % gear of mine :P.

As for MF, I am on the original posters side + whoever else that agrees with him / somewhat agrees with him.

1. When it comes to a TA event or speed run group, MF will slow the group down
2. Most will take a FT or AT over a MF due to buffs
3. Since the visual tech nerf update has not came yet, most will choose any other class than mf to be in their party.
4. Would you purposely stay a MF while doing your runs for w/e item while your other class can do the mission faster?
5. Most people care about mission run times and a party of 6x MF at seed express for example is not going to beat 6x GM or 6x FM or any other melee/ranged combo mainly lol (Tho 6 PT = lol).

Its like I and others stated long ago, MF is one of the worst classes in the game (Sorry, I still think GT is the worst of all lol). Its absolutely hopeless to compete vs a melee and thats one of many reasons why long long ago, I dropped FT and sold my 6 pwands.

The rest can continue to believe they can compete, but its impossible (even with 10/10 pwands lol). I actually had a MF complaining today about not being able to hit mobs at all cause me (On my beast FM at the time) and this other FF would just destroy everything in less than a second (at seed). MF cannot destroy crap like that in seconds which is another reason why MF wouldn't be good on TA event / speed run.

FT vs MF.....I did state long ago on official forums that the FT would end up winning in dmg, but mf in dps despite the minor gain. When I tried out MF, I was not impressed with the speed increase.

But yes, FT and MF are a party playing class and not really solo playing. I always played FT in groups and rarely ever soloed because my melee or ranged could do it faster.

And lastly........well...........suv and even nanoblast lol. They also gave melee/ranged LKK which boosts their power even more. What do they give you forces? Absolutely jack. I don't see why they couldn't overpower MF some seeing as FM is extremely overpowered despite its cons (like high pp consumption, not going to list all :P) along with other classes. I don't like the low hp myself as a MF and its really amusing to see 5 MF go down so easy at seed sometimes haha.

I will just stay AT, I enjoy that class more than anything out of the techer classes. I will lvl my techs to 50 for lolwozorz, look at my pretty techs and thats about it.

Oh one more thing.........I am so amused at the fact that I have not been kicked in a random party for what I do as a FM and all the MFs are getting booted. Just goes to show you that most people care about mission run times and not being blinded by techs :P. I don't mind, i welcome 5 MF in my party, but I will bash this class whenever. After all, its just my opinion, so lighten up ;P.

[relentless]

Well, you clearly haven't met Inazuma then. ^-^

[Powder Keg]

Originally Posted by Sexy_Raine

*sigh* people who say their fine the way they are have never played one. It pretty much pointless vs. the other 2 master classes. why do we have the weakest defense stats with no support, and don't even do the best offense?

Gunmaster is huge step up from it's forte- counterpart. It doesn't sacrifice anywhere near as much as FT -> MF.There's really no point of MF in a speed run party, might as well make it 6 Gunmasters.

I see what you're saying, but honestly I would say wait and see until you're at it's maximum potential. I seriously doubt anyone already has multiple lvl50 techs and such yet. The class sure could use more EVP since it has horrible HP, though.

[Pillan]

Does anyone besides me recall that Masterforce is the class that can pin any 5 medium or small mobs in place far away from them and pin any 8 medium or small mobs in place in front of them with absolutely no danger of missing or being harmed? I’m sorry, but a survivability advantage like that alone will be countered by a huge HP/EVP drop and a potential damage drop.

You’d be better off arguing to Sonic Team to drop Masterforce’s HP down to a 5% mod in exchange for increasing their TP such that the Gi-series rivals a Just Attacked Tornado Break in terms of damage. If you never get hit and rival the guy who’s more likely to get hit in damage, you better always die at the first hit. Adopting that sort of format to the game seems more favorable to everyone since, you know, the current theme of all the “tech damage isn’t balanced” group considers survivability useless anyway.