[MorbidLilim]

I remember how bad PSO was with item duping and hacking. I could hardly play for 5 minutes without someone throwing mountains of duped crap at me. I quit those games pretty quickly...

I realize that a lot of the problem was the data being saved client-side. So when PSU came out with data being saved on Sega's servers, I figured the problem would be solved. All online games have people manipulating what they are given on the client side. I played FFXI for a while, and it has speed hacks, warp hacks, claim bots, fish bots, etc. But never, ever, in a million years, would you have seen the kind of hacking we've already seen in PSU just a month after it's been released. All of these problems simply reek of poor design.

PSU is a ton more fun to play than the masochism that is FFXI, but at least SE knows how to make a secure enough damn game. PSU doesn't even have an in-game GM petition feature, which is quite sad.

I just think it's sad that Sega is letting all of their great resources and talents go to waste. I know for a fact that they have people employed who are vastly superior in every way to "hackers" like Nugz and Broomop, either of which has trouble formulating a coherent sentence. I also know they could have, and should have, designed a more secure system in the first place.

What I'd really like to see is Sega get some balls and serve some lawsuits out to these people.

Should you engage in any of the above conduct, SEGA reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to do one or more of the following: 1) issue you a warning; 2) terminate your access to the online features of the Program; or 3) pursue appropriate legal action against you. See the Subscriber Agreement for additional terms. Capitalized terms not defined herein shall have the meanings set forth in the Subscriber Agreement.

Other companies (like Tecmo) do it; I'd like to see the people that do it in this game get what they deserve too. They could at least use our money to pay lawyers, since they obviously aren't using it to maintain secure servers.

[Parn]

On 2006-11-26 02:54, MorbidLilim wrote:
I played FFXI for a while, and it has speed hacks, warp hacks, claim bots, fish bots, etc. But never, ever, in a million years, would you have seen the kind of hacking we've already seen in PSU just a month after it's been released. All of these problems simply reek of poor design.

Hate to break this to you, but there was a major auction house exploit and item duplication going on in Final Fantasy XI about a month after its release in Japan. The auction house system was shut down for a lengthy amount of time as a result. This was shortly after having one of the worst MMORPG launches in history, with invalid serial codes shipped out to people and some people's working serial codes becoming invalid because of a glitch in their registration server. It was a full month before just the registration aspect was completely resolved.

The game didn't arrive stateside until over a year later for a reason. The game had less content than Phantasy Star Online on GameCube, and was plagued by numerous bugs and glitches that had to be fixed. There's no way it would have made it in the condition it was in. It wasn't until the Rise of the Zilart expansion that Final Fantasy XI finally started to pick up speed and was respectable enough for a release stateside.

[MorbidLilim]

Almost all MMORPGs have "the worst MMORPG launch in history." But as far as cheats and exploits, things are dealt with relatively quickly. I've yet to see any official word from Sega, other than mods on its board saying that everyone being hacked is either lying or misinterpreting.

And there's still no excuse for the lackluster GM system in this game.

I'm not saying FFXI is a superior game; in fact, there's a reason I'm not playing it right now.

But I do expect these things to be acknowledged and fixed in a timely manner. A month from now at the latest. Just from the things I've heard about the previous PSOs, I don't have a whole lot of confidence to begin with. These are huge, potentially game-breaking problems after all.

[Parn]

Except that FFXI did have one of the worst MMORPG launches in history. Name me another MMORPG that shipped half its audience faulty registration codes, and the other half who DID get valid registration codes ending up with invalid registration codes because the POL registration server crashed repeatedly halfway through registration and charged their credit cards, used the serial code, but didn't activate the accounts.

Now, I'm not trying to justify what's going on. I just think it needs to be looked at in a proper perspective. You used Final Fantasy XI as a baseline on how things should be fixed in a timely fashion, yet Final Fantasy XI had far worse issues when it launched and they took a long time to get addressed.

[MorbidLilim]

You're missing the point; the point isn't whether FFXI did or did not have a good launch, but that PSU should be brought to the point that FFXI is at right now, as far as security goes, as quickly as possible. Especially considering that their design in the past PSO games lent itself to being hacked to hell. The game has been out long enough in Japan that I would have expected such major issues to be ironed out by now.

[Para]

If you don't know... there are GMs running around in PSU these days.

[Parn]

No, I'm not missing the point, Lilim.

On 2006-11-26 18:46, Parn wrote:
Now, I'm not trying to justify what's going on.

Yes, the game needs to be fixed ASAP. That's something that no sane person would disagree with. However, I'm not the one that wrote:

But never, ever, in a million years, would you have seen the kind of hacking we've already seen in PSU just a month after it's been released.

...which is anything but true.

[RubyEclipse]

Previously, I would have agreed that legal action would be a good route. After thinking on that topic a bit more, and after experiencing some more things in regards to the legal system and how it works, the pros and cons weigh a bit more heavily.

I can tell you firsthand, though, that 90% of the reported 'hacking' on the official forums is either hearsay, trolling, or, more recently, a prank used to scare other users.

The few instances of hacking that have occured were dealt with in a timely manner and the users were banned because of it. Many of these users are getting online via other credit cards, but the moment they start at it again, the community's report system will get them banned. They don't get a refund when the credit card gets banned, so I've personally got no problem with hackers or their friends paying $10 for two days of play time.

The GM presence is higher in the US version of PSU than it has been in any other Phantasy Star game, period. Three GM's visited Parum on the PC/PS2 servers just last week and chatted with players about the game and life in general. I'm in complete agreement that hackers should be dealt with - and I believe that, for the most part, this is happening. PSU's few issues are, however, far from the previously written:

But never, ever, in a million years, would you have seen the kind of hacking we've already seen in PSU just a month after it's been released.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RubyEclipse on 2006-11-27 08:15 ]</font>

[MorbidLilim]

I will admit that FFXI was a bad example, now knowing its problems soon after its release in Japan.

As far as GMs go, yes, I know they are running around in game though. That doesn't make the GM system on par or better than the one in FFXI, however. In FFXI you can petition for a GM in game, and then converse with the GM about your problem. In PSU, you'd have to go to the official website and submit a report. There is no exchange of information on the level of a live conversation.

In terms of legal action, I'm not sure how far the law goes in some of these cases. I know that selling game items on ebay would not be prosecuted, due to the loophole of "you are paying for the time taken to generate the items," (which is a ridiculous technicality that shouldn't be taken into consideration) but is it any different when the items are hacked, and the time taken to generate the items is comparatively nothing? Also, shouldn't sites like the ones the hackers run be shutdown, as in many cases they directly promote the harassment of others? Are any laws being broken by violating Sega's right to refuse you service, by continually coming back using other credit cards?

[Maridia]

Frankly, I've had it. I know I can't do anything about it but I've had it. After reading the ToS on PSU, sega could actually have quite the lawsuit, especially based off of previous actions. I hated what broomop and others did to PSOGC. So when BB came out, I was happy, but god.. That game was falling to pieces when I left it. Hacks running rampant. Broomop and Nugz should be thrown in jail. I don't care if that's extreme, I want them somewhere without access to any online game created by sega. Go hack a different set of MMOs, guys. Seriously. Leave us all alone. At least BB had many months without major problems. At the rate PSU is going.. I don't even want to think about it.

Throw the jerks in jail. Sue their pants off and leave them broke. I'd feel no sympathy at this point. Just a quiet simmering rage.