Guntecher Guide

[DonRoyale]

Serene’s Class Guide-Guntecher

OK, first thing’s first, I must say that of course, I’m prone to mistakes. Don’t be afraid to correct me if I’m wrong on any of this.

1. About Guntechers
1.1. Requirements
1.2. Stats
1.3. Equipment Options
2. Race-to-Guntecher Breakdown
2.1. Human Guntecher Guide
2.2. Newman Guntecher Guide
2.3. CAST Guntecher Guide
2.4. Beast Guntecher Guide
3. Ideal Equipment

1. About Guntechers

OK, I honestly think Guntechers have it best off of the Ranger classes. They get the best SE’s of all the classes (because they have techs AND bullets), have level 30 BA’s, and get Resta. What’s not to love?

Skills-Up to level 10
Bullets-Up to level 30
Technics-Up to level 10

Recommended Skills:

-Twin Burn (Twin Handguns)
-Ensei-shiki (Fire Card)
-Reisei-shiki (Ice Card)
-Yak Riga (Ice Crossbow)
-Rising Shot (Light Rifle)
-Burning Shot (Rifle)
-Rising Prism (Light Laser Cannon)
-Resta
-Reverser
-Diga (if you want to use attack techs)
-Buffs
-Debuffs

Tips on leveling your skills:

-As a Ranger, just stand back and level your burning attacks as much as possible. You want burn SE4 as fast as possible, especially if you’re a Newman or CAST, because you’ll just spray fire left and right. People will swear you were a trap-happy Protranser =D

-As a Force, buff and heal. Cast Diga if you want, but stick to buffing and healing. Group with lots of high HP-people so you get plenty of Resta/Reverser/buff/debuff EXP.

Recommended Missions:
-Mizuraki Defense

Lots of ice enemies to unleash your fire BA’s on. Also, with ice enemies comes the undeniable Barta spam, and therefore lots of freezing happening, so you get Resta and Reverser EXP.

-Valley Of Carnage

With the Lapuchas and the Jishigaras, there’s still some fun fire BA EXP to be had. Plus there’s lots of fire enemies, too, so you get ice BA EXP too. It’s also a fast way to get job EXP as well.

1.1. Requirements

To become a Guntecher, it’s not that hard. Just level your Ranger skill to level 5 and your Force skill to level 3.

1.2. Stats

Type Lvl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
HP
80% 82% 84% 86% 88% 90% 92% 96% 100% 104%
ATP
75% 76% 77% 78% 80% 82% 84% 86% 90% 94%
ATA
100% 105% 110% 115% 120% 125% 130% 135% 140% 160%
TP
35% 36% 37% 38% 39% 40% 41% 42% 43% 44%
DFP
60% 61% 62% 63% 64% 65% 66% 68% 70% 80%
EVP
120% 120% 120% 120% 120% 120% 120% 120% 120% 120%
MST
75% 76% 77% 78% 80% 82% 84% 86% 90% 100%
STA
120% 120% 120% 120% 120% 120% 120% 120% 120% 120%
CHR
130% 130% 130% 130% 130% 130% 130% 130% 130% 130%

1.3. Equipment Options

Twin Handguns-S-Rank
Handguns-S-Rank
Crossbows-S-Rank
Machineguns-S-Rank
Sabers-A-Rank
Daggers-A-Rank
Rifles-A-Rank
Shotguns-A-Rank
Bows-A-Rank
Laser Cannons-A-Rank
Cards-A-Rank
Wands-A-Rank
Swords-Cannot Use
Knuckles-Cannot Use
Spears-Cannot Use
Double Sabers-Cannot Use
Axes-Cannot Use
Twin Sabers-Cannot Use
Twin Daggers-Cannot Use
Twin Claws-Cannot Use
Claws-Cannot Use
Grenade Launchers-Cannot Use
Rods-Cannot Use

2. Race-to-Guntecher Breakdown

Well, first, Serene’s opinion on the order of effectiveness of being a Guntecher, from worst Guntecher to best.

4. Beast
3. CAST
2. Human
1. Newman

Why? Well, let me explain in more detail.

2.1. Human Guntecher Guide

OK, when comparing your stats with the other races, your stats rack up like this:

HP: C
ATP: C
DFP: C
ATA: C
EVP: B
TP: B
MST: B
STA: C

You’re the second-best Guntecher because of your lack of TP, MST and ATA compared to Newmans. You have better HP, DFP, and ATP, but really, that’s negligible in a party. You’re a long-range class, so while you’re sitting back, spamming Resta, your HP and DFP won’t matter. Plus, in a party, you want the most TP you can get for Resta. ATP isn’t really a thing for Guntechers that makes them good. SE’s and high-powered Resta are, because Guntechers are support before anything else.

Recommendation: Start as a Force. Stick to a couple combinations of handguns and wands and spam ice BA’s/Resta/Reverser until you’ve gotten to level 3.

As a Force, group with Hunters. Spam those BA’s and up their SE levels, and heal, heal, heal, heal, HEAL.

As a Ranger, group with more Hunters. Spam those BA’s as much as possible. Or leech, if you want.

As a Guntecher, you have more balanced stats, as well as a race bonus, so you get that benefit at least. You should spam missions that have a lot of ice enemies, because you’ll burn them to the ground with Burning Shot and Twin Burn. Stick to healing and buffs and get in there with those burns.

2.2. Newman Guntecher Guide

OK, when comparing your stats with the other races, your stats rack up like this:

HP: D
ATP: D
DFP: D
ATA: B
EVP: A
TP: A
MST: A
STA: D

You have the lowest HP, ATP, and DFP. Not a problem-HP and DFP is negligible when you’re grouping with lots of Hunters. You’re the ultimate supporter. When you’re not using Resta to heal 600 HP with your UNGROUND wands, you’re doing 1331 to those S-Rank Tengoghs with your SE4 Burn.

Recommendation: Start as a Force. Level Diga, Resta, and Reverser, and your buffs/debuffs.

As a Force, group with Hunters and Rangers and don’t stop leveling those healers. You have unparalleled healing power and can evade everything that gets through.

As a Ranger, you should now be level 10-15 and should be comfortable with Neudaiz or Moatoob. Keep to fire BA’s and nothing else. Keep with Hunters and other Rangers, you’ll burn them to the ground.

As a Guntecher, you’re the ultimate supporter. Everyone wants you. Just buff and heal while burning those minibosses.

2.3. CAST Guntecher Guide

OK, when comparing your stats with the other races, your stats rack up like this:

HP: B
ATP: B
DFP: B
ATA: A
EVP: C
TP: D
MST: D
STA: B

So you have all the negligible stats pretty high-HP and DFP. You have good ATA and ATP, but you have no TP and MST…This’ll be hard for your supporting style, but you’re obviously going to be focusing more on causing status effects anyways.

Recommendation: Start as a Ranger. Level your BA’s, but make sure to keep your handgun BA’s fresh, you’ll be using them as a Force often.

As a Ranger, just keep to those BA’s. You’re the best Ranger, so you can solo OK, but it’s best if you group, and keep it with Forces and Hunters.

As a Force, heal, nothing else. Leech, if it comes to that.

As a Guntecher, you’ll have trouble healing even with ground wands, but you won’t have trouble unloading your SE4 burning with good ATA on enemies and causing status effects very quickly.

2.4. Beast Guntecher Guide

OK, when comparing your stats with the other races, your stats rack up like this:

HP: A
ATP: A
DFP: A
ATA: D
EVP: D
TP: C
MST: C
STA: A

OK, now we come to the worst Guntecher. You have crap ATA, bad TP and MST, but you do a lot of damage. But you forget-Guntechers are support classes-OMGNOES D=

Recommendation: (BE A FORTEFIGHTER >:C) Start as a Force. Get lots of EXP, and heal often.

As a Force, you want to stick to a wand with Diga and Resta. Solo, if possible, because you want to be getting as much EXP so you can build your ATA and TP.

As a Ranger, group with Forces so that they can coat you in Zoldial so you can hit half the time. =P Spam those BA’s, but keep away from machineguns.

As a Guntecher, you want the most accurate guns, the high-ground wands, and high-level BA’s and techs. You’ll struggle without them, but you’ll survive.

3. Ideal Equipment

It’s pretty much the same for all races:

-Twin Handguns
-Rifle/Laser Cannon (whichever you prefer)
-Crossbow/Wand
-Card/Wand
-Card/Wand
-Crossbow/Wand

You want as much heal force and SE power as necessary.

---------------------------------------------------------

Well, thanks for reading. I hope I’ve helped you guys with my third hybrid class guide. (What can I say? <3 hybrids)

I don’t know if I’ll make pure class guides…I might, I might not…

Thanks for reading/commenting,
~Serene



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2007-01-05 16:35 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2007-01-06 19:21 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

user received a warning for this post.
congratulations.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2007-01-05 17:04 ]</font>

[DonRoyale]

Slamming? IIRC, the only race I truly slammed was Beast. Even then, any player can make any race/class combination good.

And it's MY opinion. Pure stats comparison. Truth be told, I don't have the raw 60/10 stats on hand, so I can't see the big difference, but if the differences are truly that small, then some editing is in order.

Until then, my opinion stands. Whether or not you agree with it is your choice, but I digress, it's not going away just because you think it's wrong.

I never said any of them were bad, albeit Beast, so don't go thinking I think that every non-Newman Guntecher sucks, OK? I don't think that.

[Ether]

The only guns you should be concerned with leveling as a ranger/force are rifle and bow. Handguns are completely worthless once you become guntecher and have access to crossbows and cards

My ideal PA setup would be Ice, Fire, and Light for Rifle/Bow, and Lightning, Dark, Ice for Crossbow/Cards

[-Shimarisu-]

In fact I'm quite sick of people who tell everyone to be a newman GT or WT, sad, sad waste of the race's potential really.

[Stixx]

Very nice. I've been playing with the idea of switching to Guntecher after I finish up on Figunner. Thanks for the info http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-05 16:07, -Shimarisu- wrote:
In fact I'm quite sick of people who tell everyone to be a newman GT or WT, sad, sad waste of the race's potential really.




Try editing a post once in a while...and hey - newsflash - you can have more than one character. Some folks aren't interested in playing a human *at all* (and some might not want to play newman/cast/beast at all)

Saying that Newmans make poor GTs or WTs is basically saying they should ONLY play ForteTechers...and if I were you, I would back way off that viewpoint.

[DonRoyale]

On 2007-01-05 16:16, SolomonGrundy wrote:

On 2007-01-05 16:07, -Shimarisu- wrote:
In fact I'm quite sick of people who tell everyone to be a newman GT or WT, sad, sad waste of the race's potential really.




Try editing a post once in a while...and hey - newsflash - you can have more than one character. Some folks aren't interested in playing a human *at all* (and some might not want to play newman/cast/beast at all)

Saying that Newmans make poor GTs or WTs is basically saying they should ONLY play ForteTechers...and if I were you, I would back way off that viewpoint.




Agreed on all points. =

[Cav]

"You have the lowest HP, ATP, and DFP. Not a problem-HP and DFP is negligible when you’re grouping with lots of Hunters. You’re the ultimate supporter. When you’re not using Resta to heal 600 HP with your UNGROUND wands, you’re unloading 700+PP of Burning Fury into that miniboss and taking 1000 HP off with a single tick of burning. "

interesting, debuffing a miniboss with SE1.

[Itsuki]

Statistically speaking, the difference in ATA between a newman and cast guntecher is... not there. Its a 4% difference, which is really negligable. We're talking about 17 ATA difference at level 70. The difference between 420 and 403. Considering the difference between newman and human is twice that, and the difference between human and beast is 4x that, its not much of a difference. Heres the real stat breakdown between the two:

A cast compared to newman guntecher (cast/newman):
118% HP
121% ATP
104% ATA
49% TP
121% DEF
70% EVA
37% MST
100% STA

Personally, I'd still put newman on top, but they're relatively equally good at it. The only huge detraction from Newman GT is its HP, but its truly the only combination that can make any real use of the "techer" side of GT. Human and Beast are very obviously worse in comparison to these two. But both Newman and Cast also offer their own playstyles.

And I say human and beast are worse because a human is just a variant of the newman playstyle with worse stats for it. And a beast is just a variant of the cast playstyle, with worse stats for it.

I also agree with Ether and recommend against handgun and mechguns. They just aren't worth it when you have crossbows and cards. Perhaps I'll read more of this and give more of my insight later.

Also, don't try to argue with Shimarisu, whether she's right or wrong, she'll still compain her point till the end. Its very narrow minded to think that everyone plays exactly like you do. And just because you think your playstyle is best, or becuase your playstyle works best in your own group, doesn't mean that it is the overall best playstyle. But, i will say, there is some truth in what shes saying, but shes not arguing it in any way that will change anybody's opinion. If she could actually hold an civilized debate about the subject, then she'd much easier get her point across.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-05 16:31 ]</font>

[DonRoyale]

38% MST to newmans. Hello, terrible solos at high levels. D=

And I don't think my playstyle is best. If I truly thought that, it wouldn't be:

"Serene's Opinion on What the Best Guntecher Is"

it would be:

"The Best Guntecher Period, OK?"

I don't care if you agree with my opinions of playstyles or not. My opinion stands, and I'm telling you, I assure you it's not the best, so don't think that it's truly the best way to play, I go by pure stats and haven't seen the 60/10 stats, so I assume there's somewhat of a large gap between the classes. I know I'm probably wrong, but hey, that's why I said I'm all ears to correction. I'm not perfect, after all. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Itsuki]

lol, that paragraph was mainly directed at Shim, not you serene. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

EDIT: And might I also suggest a weapon comparison by groups. Such as a comparison of SE4 weapons (Bows and Rifles). And a comparison of offhand weapons section.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-05 16:38 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

Also the difference in ATA is negligible too. Human a worse varient of newman playstyle. Bullshit. The difference is so small, but we have better ATP. That means we will always do more damage. It means we are better for soloing too. If we can get over the ATA difference, how is it a worse variant of the style?

Beast a worse variant of cast? Rubbish. Beast has pitifully low ATA AND TAP. The class is crippled ATA wise already compared to forte. Forte would compensate for beast's low ATA. GT does not. Cast however has the HIGHEST ATA. And Now where the other races can compensate ATA wise, I doubt beast can.

How can you compare beast to cast and say they are comparable play style? Well, as forte your beast's ATA will be close to that as your average guntecher. Pure damage would make them an OK class for the job. GT however? No. Unless you really, REALLY like using bows. Something a cast doesn't have to resort to.


Also, don't try to argue with Shimarisu, whether she's right or wrong, she'll still compain her point till the end. Its very narrow minded to think that everyone plays exactly like you do. And just because you think your playstyle is best, or becuase your playstyle works best in your own group, doesn't mean that it is the overall best playstyle.


I'd pretty much say it does mean that, but I don't expect people to listen to me, do you think if I did I'd have any entertainment from watching them blunder asbout badly after not taking my advice? Oh but they all take yours, and everyone's a newman guntecher. That's pretty funny. What's even more funny is the huge plethora of beast wartechers who chose that route, not because I argue well but because I was on JP. I try to tell people that whoever was on JP or not just doesn't matter jack 2 months into the game's US life, but no. I'm smart. Cuz I wuz on JP. Even though most JP players suck and you can't get a decent game if your life depends on it.



But, i will say, there is some truth in what shes saying, but shes not arguing it in any way that will change anybody's opinion. If she could actually hold an civilized debate about the subject, then she'd much easier get her point across.


Some truth? You just called my playstyle second fiddle to yours cause you play a female newman. By the way I would NEVER pick female for an ATA based class. I would argue that people who do just do it for eye candy. I play for eye candy too, I just choose classes my characters are good at. There's not a job in this game I dislike.

I don't want to change peoples' opinion. I don't want a herd of followers. In fact that gets embarrassing. You can take my opinion or leave it. Those who do privately PM me because they don't want to be seen asking me advice. Pure comedy.

You think I7m childish, but at least I'm not fake about it. BTW please do not cast judgement on my opnions please, like you're the smarter, better Guntecher. I'd wager you're not. You're just on JP. I'm CLEARLY the smarter, better WT cause I was one on JP. See how much pure bollocks this sounds?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-01-05 17:08 ]</font>

[Itsuki]

GTs can use bows and cards, which really aren't bad. And are the two most damaging GT weapons.

I was only saying that a newman GT is more of a support based GT. In the stats that matter for this (ATA, TP, EVA, MST) the newman is higher. The only thing the human really has going on the newman is HP. You can argue the 10-15 more damage the human deals at level 70 is such a big deal, but really, its even more negligable than the ATA difference.

And beast and cast GTs are more leaning towards damage dealing. In the stats that matter for this (ATP, ATA), the cast is overall beter because of the beast's low ATA. Even though as a GT a beast can compensate for its low ATA far more than as an fG.


You think I7m childish, but at least I'm not fake about it. BTW please do not cast judgement on my opnions please, like you're the smarter, better Guntecher. I'd wager you're not. You're just on JP. I'm CLEARLY the smarter, better WT cause I was one on JP. See how much pure bollocks this sounds?
Are you so insecure that you have to bring this up every time you try to start an arguement with someone that plays on the JP server? We do nothing to try to act better than you. And we never say we're better than you. You own the JP version, you could play over here too. But when you were over here you were too insecure about what the japanese people thought of you. And you repeatedly complained that they thought they were better than you even though they never did anything to say this, and nobody else playing there was bothered by it.

I only tried to say that just because the playstyle is different, doesn't mean its worse than yours.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-05 17:16 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

Also there are some situations when handguns are better than crossbows. Duals anyway. Usually in places where shit is running at you and you have to run backwards firing and dart about. If there's nothing to chuck ranged stuff at, only a bunch of spread out targets, I'll use duals. They are good in the LL. A rifle can get you run over swiftly by some fast enemies if you stand still and fire.

We don't have S rank guns yet anyway. Time will tell, and level 2 bullets are not ALWAYS useless. Though yeah, I don't like single handguns. They suck.

[Itsuki]

I have duals in every element, and nowhere did I say that duals were bad. I only said that handgun was an inferior OFFHAND WEAPON. If you're going to argue something, then read things correctly shim.

[DonRoyale]

I have a question, though. I've never used a crossbow or a card-can you strafeshoot with them? Otherwise, my opinion about handguns' superiority to crossbows/cards still stands.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

well, I don't see a reason why a newman can't just use diga or foie to nuke stuff, it may need it when fighting things like kamatozes or other big guys who are weak to magic and resistant to bullets. also, newmans are the first of the meatbags to use the good guns. I do agree that a Beast guntecher would be the worst of the 4 races, although I am sure someone, somewhere, may make it work, but for those who are stat whores, anyone who wants to be a beast ranger would be best off going either fortegunner or fighgunner. as for newman guntechers sucking, I have the best thing I can have to prove whether or not it sux, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I'm sure me, Itsuki, and Sgt. Shligger would agree that newman guntechers don't suck.

[Itsuki]

They both fire slower than handguns, but you can strafe while shooting. Card has a delay before it, which is its main deterent. Their only real problem is that you cannot first person with them. But if you're going to go first person, you're generally better off with dual handguns or rifle/bow.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

^
anyway, back from arguing, I would agree on the dual pistols, rifles, and bows for FPS, and crossbows are indeed totally awesome, even if I hadn't gotten that 2nd shot yet. I would also like to recommend one thing though, since Guntechers aren't a damage class, I think its important to have some fortefighters and fighgunners in your team to do the damage, since you're mostly there to cripple the monsters and soften them up as much as possible, not to be the ultimate destroyer.

[SolomonGrundy]

I'd like to add a comment - the point was made that no one should play female in an ATA based class. I would make the counter point that ANY class that will use TAP and has a postive modifier for EVP shoudl be considered for a female character.

I said males make better Guntecker's, true, but i think, females would be a very close second. As in Female Newman Guneteckers would be a good choice over male cast Gunteckers.

>>>is still planning on a female Cast Guntecker ;-p

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-05 17:18, Itsuki-chan wrote:
I have duals in every element, and nowhere did I say that duals were bad. I only said that handgun was an inferior OFFHAND WEAPON. If you're going to argue something, then read things correctly shim.



I've beeen watching people say duals are shit of late though. I wasn't quoting your post at any rate.

[Sgt_Shligger]

It's good to be mentioned ;D

Newman Guntecher's don't suck. . . One you get over the fact you don't do [direct] damage. Not even sure if I want to take the time to level my fire rifle. . . Should I just get a fire bow instead or run them both in my weapon tray?

[DonRoyale]

SS, if you're going solo, neither. You want to be teching and causing SE. Level Burning Fury and Twin Burn in that case.

BURN BABY BURN http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

If you want to do damage, bow. =

[-Shimarisu-]

POint is, you CAN do damage. Anyone who says otherwise isn't thinking of burning and infection. I can take down LL S solo with burning PAs, and I'm mostly using rifle ATM. Twin handguns are good too. I doubt any other class is better for that particular area, as I can bring along my PM and NPC and heal them. Megid is just damn easy to dodge at distance.

[-Shimarisu-]

Anyway, since my post was deleted despite the fact I was defending myself angrily not attacking you, I just want to reiterate once again that I do not think newmen are the best guntechers and I think casts and humans are in fact marginally superior. And that's based on stats. And it's NOT just based on current end game stats, as Itsuki is always throwing about. I don't care about the goal but getting there.

Beast really suck at guntecher and are not a poor man's version of cast gameplay. They just suck at it. Period. YOu want an ATA based class, you need SOME ATA.

[Sgt_Shligger]

Well, I never said a Newman Guntecher can't do damage, I just said I had to get over not seeing any direct damage.

[Itsuki]

And that's based on stats. And it's NOT just based on current end game stats, as Itsuki is always throwing about. I don't care about the goal but getting there.
The % differences are the same from beginning to end. And they're readily available (whether you use the PSU Bible's Stats or the Wiki's Stats or one of the Stat calcs). When it comes down to it though, the end game stats are "at the extreme". And if at the extreme, when the differences are the biggest, the differences aren't noticable, then they're even less noticable at lower levels. I mean, if a human deals 10 more damage at level 70, then at level 35, its going to be a lot more like 5 damage. You know? So whether you base it on early game stats or late game stats, its all the same stats.


SS, if you're going solo, neither. You want to be teching and causing SE. Level Burning Fury and Twin Burn in that case.

BURN BABY BURN

If you want to do damage, bow. =
You NEED SE4. I personally say go one way or the other. If you like to inflict the SE more, then go Rifles. If you would rather the simplicity and damage of Bows, then go with them. They both have their advantages. I personally lean towards rifles.

I don't understand the whole burnign fury thing either. XD Its really a horrible dot, and mechguns are kinda meh. 2% every 2 seconds for 4 seconds? XD I think at the very least, twin burn is more reasonable. 3% every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.

And for big monsters, you really need the SE4. Either fire (5% every 2 seconds for 10 seconds) or dark (5% every 4 seconds for 32 seconds). For two reasons:
1) You can't inflict a SE on them with anything less (well, maybe occasionally with SE3)
2) 5% is huge

[Ether]

The best part about this guide is that not only is it not written by a guntecher, its not even written by a ranger

[Itsuki]

good point. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Perhaps I should write one. Just to spite shim (joking). I could probably do it pretty good

[DonRoyale]

On 2007-01-05 19:59, Ether wrote:
The best part about this guide is that not only is it not written by a guntecher, its not even written by a ranger



What? Is that some kind of prerequisite to writing the guide?

Last time I checked, it wasn't.

[Itsuki]

Usually it helps to have experience

[DonRoyale]

Of course it helps.

What I'm trying to get across is that people like Ether and Shim seem to think that because I've never played a Guntecher, they seem to think that I have no idea what I'm talking about and am only doing this to get recognition. (Admit it, that's what you thought.)

Well it's a LIE. You don't have to play a class to know how it works, you know. >>

And I'm not doing this for recognition. I'm doing it out of the goodness of my heart. Is that so hard to believe?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2007-01-05 20:28 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-05 19:41, Itsuki-chan wrote:

The % differences are the same from beginning to end. And they're readily available (whether you use the PSU Bible's Stats or the Wiki's Stats or one of the Stat calcs).


And you're acting like I didn't use them, despite the fact I've had the PSU perfect bible since the day it came out. And yes, stat differences early on are important. They discern which items you can equip earliest. If I found out, like I did that from level 40 ish I could equip the best guns I could afford as human or newman, that once I added on ATA the difference in CUMALATIVE ATA was so negligible as to make no odds, then isn't that what's important? If I worked out when I could equip my desired weapons, found out it wasn't hard to level for them, found out once again that the difference in ATA was zilch, would you say that mattered or not?

REally, why don't I write a guide? I've done it before outlining why people shouldn't rely PURELY on BASE stats. Too many people do.

Base TAP on a guntecher is already crap. The majority of your TAP comes from your wand. I see no argument for a newman over cast and human for this EXACT reason. We can't equip A rank wands till late in the game, and ungrinded B ranks equal C ranks in TAP. Hell C ranks GRIND better than B. So a cast CAN do an OK resta, and a human is so little removed from newman as to make the tech bonus newman gets negligible. My MAIN problem with newman though is I don't believe in nerfing the abilities of a class that can excel so well in them. My OTHER problem with newmen is well, purely because of people who only look at base stats, thinking the TAP will make up for the reduced % guntecher gets. It barely does. You KNOW our resta is always going to be nerfed. It's what makes it close to hand, and swift (one handed, fairly close combat gun plus wand) that makes it useful.

Why do people think newmen is better? Increased ATA and TP. Why they don't think cast is any use? Bad BASE TAP. That's wrong. People need to take stats into account AFTER EQUIPPING GOOD WEAPONS FOR KEY LEVELS. Equally, people think human makes a bad GT because they act like TAP and ATA are all that's important. After you equip your weapons, ATA and TAP are so marginally lower it doesn't matter. But ATP is higher. Why be cast? ATP is quite a BIT higher. Why be human? ATP is lower but you don't have to grind your wands and you have less effort made there. But you're acting like ATA and TAP are so collosally important to this class. In the three races that are proficient enough in ATA, after equipping them well, it'S NOT. The game is not as reliant on ATA as PSO was. To me, the ATP bonus is what makes the (albeit slight) difference). In fact I'd be a cast if I could stand to look at them, and hadn't grown tired of the hassle of boosting up the resta.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

ok, enough of this stupid racism, lets get back to the topic at hand, which is, how to play Guntecher, not who makes the best Guntecher. Anyway, I've been wanting to know, does the level of a debuff determine what monsters will be affected by the debuff or will debuffs be able to affect all monsters at level one? I heard that debuffs reduce the target's abilities at the same level regardless of the level, so does that mean that Guntechers will be the best class to use these kinds of spells? Because since they only reach level 10, they use up less PP than Wartechers and Fortetecherse whose debuffs go up to higher lvs, and seriously, if you're gonna use it on monsters who should be dead as quickly as possible, I see no reason to use a level 30 jellen or zalure that will last like forever on a monster that will die pretty quickly, even on S rank, except for probably bosses, only then I'm sure will a level 30 debuff be best.

[Gen2000]

On 2007-01-05 20:20, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Usually it helps to have experience


I agree.


SereneShadows wrote:
Well it's a LIE. You don't have to play a class to know how it works, you know. >>


While that's somewhat true, I would believe people would be more inclinced to listen to and take advice from someone with actual experience of the class and actually experimented with many things to make class the best it can be than someone who doesn't.

Examples:

Recommended Skills:
.
.
-Burning Fury (Machinegun)
-Frozen Hit (Handgun)


Burning Fury for machine gun (by far the worst offhand gun for RAs)? Frozen Hit? Leave those to HUs and FOs, GT/RAs has much, much better offhand gun and SE options.

-Rifle/Laser Cannon (whichever you prefer)

You're aware Rifles aren't that much alike Laser Cannons at all besides being somewhat close damage wise? Almost like comparing the Saber to Sword or something.


You want as much heal force and SE power as necessary. For the ATA-orients, you can swap the crossbow for another Machinegun if your Burning Fury’s a high enough level.


Machine Guns never go past SE1 and if you're talking about elemental damage level, it only goes to 10%. Xbows goes to 15% and Cards to 25%(!!), I don't know what else you could mean by "high enough level" but I figured you were talking about either SEs or elemental damage.

Then post #9 is another example. That was a really bad statement to make. The layout is nice (and I respect anyone who can layout information in a clear and detailed way) but you should probably got together with more experienced GT/even RAs before posting this. Exp'ed GTs already know these things but for those up and coming GTs who read this may actually think that's good advice if they don't read the other posts in this thread.

I'm also of opinion that people going by the whole "only support with SE" mentality is selling their class short, GTs can't do wtfpwnage damage but with the right setups you can get pretty damn close to do doing fGs damage. As my small time with a female Cast GT (lol worthy?), I supported by healing, SE'ing, AND killing shit quickly which is pretty easy for GTs compared to WTs since they can take advantage of the High level Burn SEs more easily.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I will say that Machine guns definately aren't such a great choice for Guntechers once you hit S missions, seeing a bunch of 10s and such is definately not fun, especially when those are a rarity compared to the plentitude of 0s coming out. These were once my favorite guns, but now, they seem pretty meh, I would say they are better suited to Fighgunners and maybe Fortegunners who should have exclusive S rank access to these(well, they would be best suited for these IMO).

[-Shimarisu-]

I'd say mechguns were more for flinching, but our ATA isn't high enough for this to work effectively in my general experience. I'd wait for S ranks and a general increase in levels to try this.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

yup, I have to agree with that one, although I don't know if they flinch if one of those hits is a miss, which is very often in S missions.

[Itsuki]

strangely enough, the best weapons for 1-2 target flinching is Rifles. Rifles just get the big flinch that cancels spells and such, while mechguns only do the small one and missing a lot. I think mechguns are much more attune to coralling. It doens't help the mechgun ultimate PA is horrible for rangers. 1% ata per 10 levels of it? No please.


does the level of a debuff determine what monsters will be affected by the debuff or will debuffs be able to affect all monsters at level one? I heard that debuffs reduce the target's abilities at the same level regardless of the level, so does that mean that Guntechers will be the best class to use these kinds of spells?
Debuffs have a max number of targets of like 5 or 6 I think? I'm not sure exactly and have never run into the problem. But supposedly some of the FOs have found this issue when AFK leveling debuffs (find some monsters that deal 0 and set rapid fire and go to sleep).

Any type or level of monster will be effected though with one exception. Certain enemy buffs will reduce your chance of inflicting the status effect. For normal monsters, its 100% success rate. Even mini-bosses. But a crown + shield + all that jazz kind of monster may only get a 30% success rate or so.

Also, level 1+ is a 10% decrease, level 11+ is 15%, and 21+ is 20%. So there is a point in having a higher level debuff. Keep in mind aswell that the current ult shotgun PA deals SE2 Zoldeel at 21+ (but only SE1 at 20 and lower). And also Mayalee Twins deals SE3 Defdeal at 21+. But, even so, you rarely see FOs that debuff. Its more of a WT and GT kind of job if its going to get done at all. WTs are actually probably the best at it since they tend to be pretty close range. Though crossbow forte GTs also make work wonderfully.

Lastly, perhaps rather than just telling the original poster they need more experience or saying we can write a better guide, why not write up our own additions or changes to the guide. Serene seems nice enough to change what needs changing.

[Sgt_Shligger]

Well, something I recently discovered.

I forgot I had the ability to launch Diga >_>;

170-200 damage with one level 10 diga coming from a newman GT.
20-50 damage per hit with a Crea dagger. I doubt a "normal" dagger will do much more.

So in essence, the damage you do with melee versus techs is almost the same. . . I am anxious to blast out Dimu-Barta--- Looks like a great spell to empty a wand with.

Too add onto melee, I can go crossbow/dagger in an S-rank mission (even LL) without getting killed, as a Newman GT (granted I watch my back). The difference is that melee can disable (knockdown) enemies while teching is generally safer.

Also, mechguns shouldn't be considered as a GT. . . It's for Fighgunners, 'nuff said. It's ashame GT's are the only ones who have access to the S-rank mechguns when they have to be the worst class to use them. . . Although cane/mechgun does look cool.

Mechguns do have a decent purpose. . . It's something you unload. If there's a enemy you don't like, odds are you can knock it down and just unload the gun into their back. You can even skip the first part and just run up to them. Not enough damage to be used for normal situations.

[imfanboy]

Good idea. I think I'll do that, itsuki. one moment.

[DonRoyale]

Give me a minute. After all these wonderful (yet arrogant, opinionated, and forceful among others) comments, I'm going to edit the guide.

Thank you all for your comments.

[juno-6]

LOL, after all that it seems like something productive was actually achieved. Anyways, with the exception of Beasts i think all races have their own place as guntechers.

Newmans:

High ATA, high TP, and low HP makes these guys great GT's. ATA will get them better guns early on and allow their shots to hit and give them a greater chance of causing SE's. High TP gives them the better wands early on and makes using techs besides resta/reverser/de/buffs look like not such a bad idea. Low HP reminds them what they're not here for - they're not here to stand in the middle of battle, up in the enemies grill trying to inflict the pain-they have other sneakier ways of doing that.

Humans:

Everyhting. Honestly, you can shoot stuff without missing, cast a decent amount of resta/reverser/de/buffs/maybe a diga when your bored, you can take a few kicks to the head and you can make use of all aspects of GT for when the time calls for it. *hi-5*

CAST:

Your basically a Fortegunner with a different GUN selection....and resta. Twin Handguns have high elemental % and SE3@21+ and decent damage and make you REALLY mobile. Bows have SE4 and keep you competing with rifle-toting fortegunners who cant use said weapon. Lastly, Xbows bring the pain ...and i guess you need something to regenerate while your casting resta on yourself.

BEASTS: eh' what the hell......

If you suck, don't be a Beast GT. If your aight, play like a CAST GT and make sure your using Tenora everything for high ATA n' ATP and Kubara weapons for high ATA. Your basically a close range ranger dealing damage through Burn/Infection and raw ATP and Nanoblasts and taking a few scratches along the way. P.S - My alt is totally going to be a Beast GT.


Credit to Shim and Dymalos' posts for some of the info about damage dealing with GT's.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: juno-6 on 2007-01-06 19:47 ]</font>