Wartecher totally robbed!?

[Errorrrr]

Discuss... personally... I think Wartecher is totally robbed on all aspects... stats/equips/skills :/ 20/10/20 is so ugly.

[Shade-]

ok. I think they're fine. Best sefensive stats in the game, second best (advanced class) caster, and when they aren't needed to cast, they have formidable attack stats.

Are they as good with techs as a forteTecher? hell no, Are they as good with striking as forteFighters? hell no. Do they have advantages that neither of those classes has? yes.

The only thing I can say that wartechers deserve is a lefthanded force weapon, weather just let them hold canes in the off hand, or have some sort of photon crystal ball, so they can have a dagger and a tech or 2 avialable.

[huntlyon]

Wartechers who know their place can make runs quicker... by staying on top of buff/debuffs...

from what I'm seeing, Fortechers will never be as anal about buffs as a non-melee class... and they will hardly ever debuff.

this is where the WT comes in...




with decent gear suited to the level.. you can hold your own melee wise... my 22% Ice +8 Survivor has been quite good to me on Neudaiz

[BladeBlade]

i don't like my wartecher.My characters FORCE class has a higher ATP than it.The ATA also sucked, so I couldn't use claws OR fans.....so i'm currently working on making it a Forterfighter...which seems better in all aspects,except that they can't use technics...altogether, I frown on Wartecher.

[Nani-chan]

Just leave Wt be... you realize if wt wasn't fun people wouldn't play it.

[Holo]

On 2007-01-20 15:44, BladeBlade wrote:
i don't like my wartecher.My characters FORCE class has a higher ATP than it.The ATA also sucked, so I couldn't use claws OR fans.....so i'm currently working on making it a Forterfighter...which seems better in all aspects,except that they can't use technics...altogether, I frown on Wartecher.



Its obvious you didnt take time to lvl the class. I have 100 more atp as A Wartecher 6 Then a Force 6. I remeber i started off really weak my daggers were doing like 30 dmg a hit. then as time passed I am now doing about 110+ per hit on daggers around 130+ with buffs.

Wartechers start off really lame. But once you lvl you'll see the true potential.

[Errorrrr]

HOlo got a point... I was level 1 wartecher and was horrible... now I am reaching level 3... it's getting quite good... I always thought without strong weapons I can't do damage... but I just realized that WT have buffs!

but seriously... we can ALL agree that Wartecher was robbed of using Rod... I mean c'mon! no rod??? >_<

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Errorrrr on 2007-01-20 16:36 ]</font>

[Kimil]

Wartechers are just fine
The Roles we fit just fine:
-Close range Medic (So fortechers and their low ass dfp wont die)
-Debuffs (So fortechers and their low ass dfp wont die)
-Buffs (Self and Party)
-Damspells (So fortechers and their low ass dfp wont die)
-Self-efficient, we can resta! (only melee class that can)
-Melee calss that has HIGH MST, EVA, HP, and DFP (WE NEVER DIE (I've never died with the high stats/resta/debuff/buffs))
-Crowd Control (rounding up or throwing enemies with dagger PAs and lvl 3 SE with Dam-spells)
-Plain old Melee
-Ranger - Bows
-BEST SOLO CLASS, period



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-01-20 17:26 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

I think this thread should be locked.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-20 15:44, BladeBlade wrote:
i don't like my wartecher.My characters FORCE class has a higher ATP than it.


Calling Captain Bullshit to thread no. 133269.

Oh wait looks like he's already here!

[DonRoyale]

The only thing I see wrong with Wartechers is stats. The growth of ATP is bad, and the ATA flat-out sucks. (I'm a NEWMAN, and I'm still about 30 ATA, which is about 13-15 levels, away from a 7* Card. PATHETIC)

Other than that, everything about WT's is just plain win. If you can't get past the lack of 30's and S-Ranks, then you fail and don't deserve to play this game, kthnxbai.

Oh yeah, and before you say "lol @ newman" or something in that fashion, Shim...

We don't suck. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Natrokos]

If you get to 70/10 and still cant find a way to pull your weight around it's more then just your class.

[Nani-chan]

No what Shim meant is what Bladeblade said was impossible. A jlvl 10 force has a .70 atp modifier while a jlvl 1 WT has a .75 atp modifier.

edit: Or at least I think that's what Shim meant.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2007-01-20 22:23 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

We should get rods. I mean, seriously, it's insane that we don't. Why, you ask?

Consider that you have 6 slots. In order to do full buffs, you need 2 different wands. But you don't constantly buff, so let's just go with the ones you have to keep at all times:

1. Wand -- Resta/reverser
2. Wand -- Zodeel/Zalure
3. Wand -- Jellen/(Attack of your choice)

You've wasted 3 slots of 6 at all times, with only one method of actually attacking. You want another way to attack? You need FOUR slots of wands. You now have TWO slots available to place your melee weapons. You also have 4 wasted offhand spots because you're COMPLETELY INCAPABLE OF USING RANGED WEAPONS. You are completely and utterly inept with the damn things, but you walk around with a mass of pistols just so you can have something in your off-hand. Bullshit. We're the second-best tech users. We deserve rods.

//Edit: Fuck, or at least give us S-rank wands. We're twice the tech users as Guntechers are, but they get wands just as good as us.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gamemako on 2007-01-20 22:34 ]</font>

[VanHalen]

i really dont see how bad lvl 20 techs are. can someone explain to me how not having lvl 30 techs is that bad?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-01-20 22:39 ]</font>

[Nani-chan]

Do zodeel, zalure and jellen really do that much? As for buffs I favor Shifta and Zodial for faster damage. I think Zodial helps allot with my Alteric especially. Maybe I should pick up deband/retier since it would help other people more than myself.

I'd prefer to see left handed wands (perhaps wt only).

[DonRoyale]

And just to clear the whole wand/pallette issue up...

You guys ARE aware you can prep a wand with the proper spells, jam it into your pallette, then swap it for your attack wand, right?

I mean, if you're soloing, that's even better. After every room in which your buff fizzles, swap wands, buff, swap, murder.

Not that hard, I've been using Lidras for this and have been doing just fine.

[Errorrrr]

On 2007-01-20 22:59, SereneShadows wrote:
And just to clear the whole wand/pallette issue up...

You guys ARE aware you can prep a wand with the proper spells, jam it into your pallette, then swap it for your attack wand, right?

I mean, if you're soloing, that's even better. After every room in which your buff fizzles, swap wands, buff, swap, murder.

Not that hard, I've been using Lidras for this and have been doing just fine.



You know how annoying it is to go into your inventory and swap EVERY TIME??/ at least give us a Rank C in rod... I don't care, just GIVE US ROD... level 5 force, and can't use ROD??? what the heck!

[Alisha]

i've kinda given up on WT because psu is not pso and wartecher is not fomarl. the defence is nice but even racaseal could pump out respectable melee damage. once i realized how important offensive magic is to WT i became disillusioned with it.

[Gamemako]

On 2007-01-20 22:59, SereneShadows wrote:
And just to clear the whole wand/pallette issue up...

You guys ARE aware you can prep a wand with the proper spells, jam it into your pallette, then swap it for your attack wand, right?

I mean, if you're soloing, that's even better. After every room in which your buff fizzles, swap wands, buff, swap, murder.

Not that hard, I've been using Lidras for this and have been doing just fine.



That's what I do with buffs -- take a crappy Yohmei wand and stick buffs on it for the buffing cycle. That's not what I'm talking about.

You can't do that with debuffs. You have to be right up with your opponents to debuff them. That means you can't stand there in the middle of a mob of Vanda Mehras while you enter the menu and move your attack wand back over. You have to keep debuff sticks on, as well as your resta/reverser stick. At BEST you can ignore Jellen and just go with Zodeel/Zalure (just be careful). Then you have no attack wands and one debuff wand. Add an attack wand and you have half of your slots eaten by wands. It's silly.

[Syanaide]

Wartecher is kind of like FFXI's "Red Mage." The jack of all trades to speak, which makes it a pretty middle man, and great solo'er. Buff them, and they'll most likely become way too good. Nerf them, and they'll probably be not very useful. I think people should not focus more on damage as the wartecher, it's built for support. The class is fine.

[Errorrrr]

On 2007-01-21 00:11, Syanaide wrote:
Wartecher is kind of like FFXI's "Red Mage." The jack of all trades to speak, which makes it a pretty middle man, and great solo'er. Buff them, and they'll most likely become way too good. Nerf them, and they'll probably be not very useful. I think people should not focus more on damage as the wartecher, it's built for support. The class is fine.



exactly... that's why they need ROD... Rod is the ultimate support wep..

[Soukosa]

On 2007-01-20 23:28, Alisha wrote:
i've kinda given up on WT because psu is not pso and wartecher is not fomarl. the defence is nice but even racaseal could pump out respectable melee damage. once i realized how important offensive magic is to WT i became disillusioned with it.

A RAcaseal could also do more melee damage than a FOmarl. Vulpes once stated that RAcaseals were better than HUs at melee due to their high DFP and ATA as he used one in that fashion. The way I see it is that WTs are more of what FOmarls would have been if their tech damage didn't suck so much. They were never really that strong offensively and I liked them mostly because of their strong defensive and supportive abilities. Playing around with a newman WT reminds me alot of a FOmarl only with stronger techs.

I do agree with the notion that WTs could use some sort of rod or left hand tech weapon. It's very hard to get all of the techs you need while the offhand spot is generally wasted because of this.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I don't mind, they're still fun to play as, although I did have thoughts abuot making my Newman Wartecher into a Fortefighter at times(hell, I was struggling more with my Newman as a Force than I was with him as a Hunter, I didn't even have trouble when he was a Hunter >.>).

[Holo]

First off why must all you guys compare a force lvl 10 to a wartecher 1. You do realize the lvl difference there.

Lets compare fairly now, A wartecher at lvl 10 has 100% atp, while a a fortefighter lvl 10 has 128%atp.
(Stats from PSUPEDIA)

A 28% difference.

now a wartecher to a fortecher, both lvl 10

tp for wartecher is 94%
tp for fortecher is 144%

This one is a big difference though by 50%

when you think about it wartechers potenial atp can go to 115% if you buff your atp leaving only a 13% gap between wartecher and fortefighter.

Rods is what fortechers from wartechers. If wegot rods then fortechers mightstart arguing so the only thing i would suggest is S-rank wands.

[huntlyon]

what's this crap about being completely incapable of using ranged weapons?

I may not be ready to throw down for cards (and won't until I can grind them) but my ground B'Duki Res will do triple digit damage in most circumstances when I want the resta wand up or just want sneak some more hits on a dagger knockdowned target

[Gamemako]

On 2007-01-21 09:33, huntlyon wrote:
what's this crap about being completely incapable of using ranged weapons?

I may not be ready to throw down for cards (and won't until I can grind them) but my ground B'Duki Res will do triple digit damage in most circumstances when I want the resta wand up or just want sneak some more hits on a dagger knockdowned target



My newman wartecher sucks with guns, and newmans after the stat bonus have only a VERY TINY amount less ATA than a CAST wartecher (a female CAST has 2 more ATA than a male newman and a male CAST 8 more). Unless I Zodeel, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with anything elemental but a bow. I have no useful status effects because of the level cap -- you can't get anything above level 2 status. Green bullets suck for damage. Essentially, I'm only useful in ranged instances with a bow, and nothing else -- I have to use green weapons to tag effectively. If I want status effects, I'm better off relying on techs.

[Errorrrr]

At least WT can use Alteric relatively early.... with my +7 Alteric... does some decent damage against flying XD

[Gamemako]

On 2007-01-21 10:44, Errorrrr wrote:
At least WT can use Alteric relatively early.... with my +7 Alteric... does some decent damage against flying XD



Thank God for bows, you know? Otherwise we'd be standing around like idiots waiting for a gunner to finish the job. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[nooblet]

I do agree that WT are the RDM's of FF XI, maybe thats the reason I became a WT. Anyways, since WT is just average at everything, I think people are expecting too much out of WT just like the people in FF XI with RDMs.

I play WT like I do with RDM, dont overdo things.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-21 08:58, Holo wrote:
First off why must all you guys compare a force lvl 10 to a wartecher 1. You do realize the lvl difference there.

Lets compare fairly now, A wartecher at lvl 10 has 100% atp, while a a fortefighter lvl 10 has 128%atp.
(Stats from PSUPEDIA)

A 28% difference.

now a wartecher to a fortecher, both lvl 10

tp for wartecher is 94%
tp for fortecher is 144%

This one is a big difference though by 50%

when you think about it wartechers potenial atp can go to 115% if you buff your atp leaving only a 13% gap between wartecher and fortefighter.

Rods is what fortechers from wartechers. If wegot rods then fortechers mightstart arguing so the only thing i would suggest is S-rank wands.



FINALLY somebody said it, however add a good ATP, high % weapon to both WT and FF and the % of WT's damage compared to forte rises up to around 4/5ths or MORE, depending on the weapon.

That is NOTHING to be sniffed at. And for solo? With debuffs WT is so close to FF's damage it's probably around equal.

TAP is not so important, as the TAP on wands is going to be MOST of your total. ATP weapons have less ATP generally than wands have TAP. However WT is so much better in the ATP field. Techs are, to me, just backup.

[BLACKR0SE]

wt is a good class.It does its job,BUT the problem is we dont have the best stuff like other classes.Its like a war.Where everyone has a rifle.Then some people have grenades and people still say its ok.We just have the rifle.No grenades.But we have armor.http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gifAnyways I'm lvl 9 wartecher.IMO its one of the best classes in the game,but it doesnt have anything special,powerful,or better than other classes.Making it a true hybrid.If ST attempted to balance wt they should add:

-S wands (Why dont we have these?)
-B Rods (solves the limited spell capacity)
-B Swords (gives a power weapon)
-Maybe 20/20/20
-Off hand wand (this could solve the rod problem also.Dual wield get)
-And my dream wep "MageBlade" (Just like Ethan in online story.)

If we had these people would be like "O noes Im going wartecher.Fighgunner is lame" But we wouldnt be overpowered.Our Tp,Atp,and Ata will still be mediocre so it wouldnt be so suped up.Anyone disagree?

[-Shimarisu-]

I really don't think S wands would hurt Wartecher balance, because A wands can be grinded up to be as good as them. Very few people are going to grind S ranks.

Perhaps we SHOULD get S wands just for the collectability factor.

Swords are crap, I just don't care about them.

[Holo]

On 2007-01-21 18:17, -Shimarisu- wrote:
I really don't think S wands would hurt Wartecher balance, because A wands can be grinded up to be as good as them. Very few people are going to grind S ranks.

Perhaps we SHOULD get S wands just for the collectability factor.

Swords are crap, I just don't care about them.



Totally agree, we still are stuck rodless and with lvl 20 spells . Still i'm not gonna whine about this but a man can dream.

Wartechers aren't robbed.

[Errorrrr]

we don't need sword. Spear does just fine. We dont' need Swands really... or Guntecher will cry... we jUST NEED RODS!!! my goddness.... and 30/10/20 would be fine...

[Holo]

On 2007-01-21 18:26, Errorrrr wrote:
we don't need sword. Spear does just fine. We dont' need Swands really... or Guntecher will cry... we jUST NEED RODS!!! my goddness.... and 30/10/20 would be fine...



What are guntechers gonna cry about? they only had to do lvl 3 force and there spells only go up to 10.

Rods is really what seperates us from Fortechers. Give us rods and then Fortechers will cry.

I would love for one of my PA sides to go to 30 (id trade bullet lvls in a heart beat) but not something im going to bother whining about.

[Errorrrr]

oops sorry... i meant Fortechers.

[Gamemako]

Seriously, wartechers are fine as the only class with level 20 skills. The problem is the wands we're given. A rank wands. Nothing better. This doesn't make sense. We have to have Force 5 to change, but we don't get anything better than just A-rank wands, while Guntechers with Force 3 get exactly the same? We have more than twice the TP of a Guntecher, but we don't get anything better. Damn them.

[Syanaide]

Disregard.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Syanaide on 2007-01-21 20:08 ]</font>

[BLACKR0SE]

-Swords should be added for the sake of the limited meele weapons.Atm there is no big,heavy hitter weapon besides spear...which will recevive a nerf shortly.
-I agree on the wands and rods.

[Holo]

On 2007-01-21 18:53, Errorrrr wrote:
oops sorry... i meant Fortechers.



I'm pretty sure fortecher would prefer wartechers having S rank wands instead of rods so they can fell superior.

[Gamemako]

Honestly, I don't think ST will be doing anything with the Wartecher class. It would be easy enough to allow use of S-rank wands, but they're happy with what wartechers are now: a support class through and through.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-21 21:48, Gamemako wrote:
Honestly, I don't think ST will be doing anything with the Wartecher class. It would be easy enough to allow use of S-rank wands, but they're happy with what wartechers are now: a support class through and through.



I've seen Human Wartechers live through hits that would one-shot a fortetcher regularly...they are hardy little fellas.

I'm going to say if you were going to give Wartechers any one thing, perhaps it would be access to C rank rods. This would in no way infringe on Fortetechers domain, and would solve the issue of buffs

I like the class a lot though...I'm not sure why everyone is down on it. If you want to cry about something, cry about Protransers.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-22 00:23, SolomonGrundy wrote:
I like the class a lot though...I'm not sure why everyone is down on it. If you want to cry about something, cry about Protransers.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


I know you're j/k but I think the big grind missions featuring King Jarbas and King Bils put a permanent end to that sentiment recently.

I think the new set of PA's gave WT a lot of stuff they badly needed... the new Twin Dagger and Twin Saber PA's max their damage % at level 20 and Dus Robando (while expensive) gives WT a nice AOE sweep that they were missing.

[Errorrrr]

On 2007-01-21 21:48, Gamemako wrote:
Honestly, I don't think ST will be doing anything with the Wartecher class. It would be easy enough to allow use of S-rank wands, but they're happy with what wartechers are now: a support class through and through.



again I stress... if it's support, why don't we get RODs??? I have not see ANY FO who have access to Rods don't use it to link those to support skills.... if anything, i'd say fortetecher is more support... they get RODS!!

[Gamemako]

Giving wartechers rods would allow them to move enough skills from the palette to become effective fighters or nukers. ST doesn't want that. ST wants them to remain a class that is a support tank. Very few slots for attacks, many wasted offhand spots to limit damage.

Also, panzer... was that twin saber PA comment a joke?

[panzer_unit]

Game: no. While the PSUPedia listing may be wrong, it says the new Twin Saber and Twin Dagger PA's hit max damage at level 20 and only improve ATA and get the last combo move beyond that. I haven't put much time into my WT alt thanks to all the stuff my PT needs to level now so I don't know first-hand.

[EphekZ]

I don't get the point of complaining about something you know will not be changed. Way I see it, if you dont like something stop bitching and get used it. or just choose a new fucking class. WT is a very good class and doesnt need to be changed.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkgunner on 2007-01-22 13:05 ]</font>

[BLACKR0SE]

On 2007-01-22 13:05, darkgunner wrote:
I don't get the point of complaining about something you know will not be changed. Way I see it, if you dont like something stop bitching and get used it. or just choose a new fucking class. WT is a very good class and doesnt need to be changed.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkgunner on 2007-01-22 13:05 ]</font>
I can complain because

1.I have the right.
2.Lulz wat joo gonna do?
3.Because i want to.

[Para]

Im pretty satisfied with my newman wartecher, sure my techs don't do much damage but hell they can outdamage my melee depending on situation. Im not going to constantly waste my TP on buffs... guntechers can do that... I rather use my TP on dambarta, foie or diga depending on the situation.

[Gamemako]

On 2007-01-22 11:41, panzer_unit wrote:
Game: no. While the PSUPedia listing may be wrong, it says the new Twin Saber and Twin Dagger PA's hit max damage at level 20 and only improve ATA and get the last combo move beyond that. I haven't put much time into my WT alt thanks to all the stuff my PT needs to level now so I don't know first-hand.


The first two hits of Assault Crush are worthless. They each hit one target twice. The final hit smacks two targets four times and launches. First two attacks combined: stagger effect, 4 total hits. Last attack alone: launch effect, 8 total hits. Obviously, Assault Crush is completely and utterly worthless for wartechers.

[BLACKR0SE]

Assault Crush is good for me.I use it against single targets.And it has nice reach.

[panzer_unit]

Final attacks on PA combos are often horribly overrated. Easily interrupted, slow, and all kinds of knockback that essentially knocks the mob to safety from the rest of your team. I'm glad I've got mine for the situations when they work, but they're not the bread and butter of my move set by a long shot.

So, looks like WT gets the same damage modifiers as fF and FG on the same moves that all three would usually use. Also Assault Crush seems different for not having an annoying juggle or knockback on the second hit.

[SolomonGrundy]

here here on the third hit of PAs. While there are cases where they do well, a lot fo times they are a waste of PP.

Dus Duggas's thrid hit does less damage than the first 2.

Boda Danga's 3rd hit looks wonderful...but hard to direct, and often misses.

The first sword PA IS actually pretty good when facing groups of 5 or more enemies. It will only knock back 3 at a time, so you can spam it and move on the the next group of 3. SAdy, swords run out of PPP far too quickly, and the PA in general does not hit enough times.

but I digress. Wartechers are already good enough at melee, was my point. Good ATP, good wpeaon selection, Access to buffs

[Gamemako]

On 2007-01-22 14:15, panzer_unit wrote:
Final attacks on PA combos are often horribly overrated. Easily interrupted, slow, and all kinds of knockback that essentially knocks the mob to safety from the rest of your team. I'm glad I've got mine for the situations when they work, but they're not the bread and butter of my move set by a long shot.

So, looks like WT gets the same damage modifiers as fF and FG on the same moves that all three would usually use. Also Assault Crush seems different for not having an annoying juggle or knockback on the second hit.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQMoAawHwmU&mode=related&search=

Thirty seconds in. Watch the attack and tell me it's not completely and utterly pointless to use it below 21. Also, the third attack is a vertical lauch, not a horizontal "blow-away" attack. It is VERY useful at 21+, but before then, it's completely stupid to waste 40 PP on as much damage as can be done with a regular six-hit combo.

[SolomonGrundy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQMoAawHwmU&mode=related&search=

Thirty seconds in. Watch the attack and tell me it's not completely and utterly pointless to use it below 21. Also, the third attack is a vertical lauch, not a horizontal "blow-away" attack. It is VERY useful at 21+, but before then, it's completely stupid to waste 40 PP on as much damage as can be done with a regular six-hit combo.



dude, it's ONE photno art that WTs can use. Get over it, geez

[Gamemako]

On 2007-01-22 16:54, SolomonGrundy wrote:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQMoAawHwmU&mode=related&search=

Thirty seconds in. Watch the attack and tell me it's not completely and utterly pointless to use it below 21. Also, the third attack is a vertical lauch, not a horizontal "blow-away" attack. It is VERY useful at 21+, but before then, it's completely stupid to waste 40 PP on as much damage as can be done with a regular six-hit combo.



dude, it's ONE photno art that WTs can use. Get over it, geez



No, no, I'm pointing out to Panzer that despite the damage maxing at 20, the skill is entirely useless to Wartechers.

Now, that fist PA is actually quite nice for us wartechers, sans the warmup time.

[SolomonGrundy]

and I agree it sucks...and I would add: so don't use it. both dagger PAs are Great, and WTs get S rank daggers.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

and in case you wanted to pack even MORE handguns... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Assault Crush does indeed max out at 180 when it reaches 20, and it doesn't get stronger after that. I know cuz I have it at level 23 on my human fortefighter and the ATP won't go up. also, the first two moves of Assault Crush ARE worthless, you really need that third move in order for it to be any good.

[Tra]

lol if you want rods, just play a base Force

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-22 14:33, Gamemako wrote:
Thirty seconds in. Watch the attack and tell me it's not completely and utterly pointless to use it below 21.

LOL that does suck. I think the part that hurts most is how damage on the hits from the first two moves is only 75, then it's all 150's for hits from the last move. None of the PA's I've got at 21+ are so heavily oriented towards the final move.

[FenderReplica]

Wartech totally owns!

Since the points contributed towards increment of attack specs are divided more or less evenly towards ATP and TP, at early stage players may find it hedious to do solo or find it hard to compete with other melee class as they don't get their hands on better equipments as quickly as a other pure classes and often find their crappy ungrinded melee weapons running out of PP half way through Valley of Carnage C. (Thank god for the crystal recharge in B3)

I was getting a bit frustrated as my friends were doing better damage than i did when I was around early 30s. A quick look on my status sheet inspired the idea of playing wartech like a full flanged techer. I had bought 4 cometara for each basic element with 1 single target Tech and 1 buff tech and I had never looked back. As for Resta and Reteia buffing I just use a pitiful B wand. Life as a Wartech has never been so much fun ever since then.

When I am doing solo I would start off with buffing myself up and dishing out magics to weaken the mob and then go up close and personal with my B-top ungrined saber.

And as other people had stated out before, Wartechers have the highest HP modifer and they do buff and heal, THEY JUST DON'T DIE SO EASILY NEARLY IN ANY SITUATION.

As with partying, I do buffs as well and got the buffs lv up quite quickly, which in turns yield longer and better buff effects for ur solo works. In team plays I usually just pop a few pissy bullets with my C pistols to the mob to secure my xps and then blast away with entry and intermediate lv techs. Damage figures are quite alrite ranging from 300 to 500 each shot with buffs so I am constantly contributing to my team and help cleaning mobs up quickly. At the end of each run I only need 500-600 mester to recharge and the wands are only half empty.

All in all Wartech is as good as other classes in PSU. It's only your playing style and your understandings of the game which makes you prefer any particular class.

The only drawback of being a wartech is you have a real headache deciding what tech to fit in the wands with 2 slots but i think I will eventually master all of them. Keep your melee arsenels as simple as possible (I am using a B-top ungrinded saber with C rank pistol, but will eventually move on to dual dagger) becoz you don't do as much damage to be able to lv up PAs quickly. Bullets are not a must have becoz with bullets on your wussy pistols will drain pretty quickly as ATA is a bit shyte TBO unless you are willing to grind them up which you won't bother to a C rank anyway.

[Para]

On 2007-01-22 20:08, Gamemako wrote:

On 2007-01-22 16:54, SolomonGrundy wrote:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQMoAawHwmU&mode=related&search=

Thirty seconds in. Watch the attack and tell me it's not completely and utterly pointless to use it below 21. Also, the third attack is a vertical lauch, not a horizontal "blow-away" attack. It is VERY useful at 21+, but before then, it's completely stupid to waste 40 PP on as much damage as can be done with a regular six-hit combo.



dude, it's ONE photno art that WTs can use. Get over it, geez



No, no, I'm pointing out to Panzer that despite the damage maxing at 20, the skill is entirely useless to Wartechers.

Now, that fist PA is actually quite nice for us wartechers, sans the warmup time.

I agree that assault crush is pretty much useless unless you max it out and I also agree that the fist PA is awesome to use.

[Errorrrr]

the real dilema of WT is the "jack of all trade." it's a double edge sword. In fact, the best WT are either newman (heavily tech based), and beast (heavily melee based). and you'd think human are probably the best since it's the jack of all trade race... but the fact is the limitation of equipment slot really hinders the usefullness of WT.

WT's stats can't be argued since it's got both decent ATP and decent TAP, but the real problem is how to put them in to great use. As a fellow board member pointed out using this analogy,

WT is like a powerful rifle without ammo. What's the use???

To play WT effectively is EXTREMELY tedious. and the "best" WT now are heavily leaning on one side of WT and it's just in fact a either a second rate FO, or a second rate HU. It doesn't bring out the uniqueness and usefullnes of WT at all. And that's where I think WT is robbed.

To illustrate tedious I'll use my WT as an example:
Lv 42 HUMAN WT
I have in inventory
2 spear
2 dagger
2 double dagger
2 saber
3 wands
4 guns
1 Bow

now tell me it's not tedious at all to play WT.... compare to Hunter where all 6 slots are free, they can put an alternate weapon in there in case of PP runs out, and as a FO, they have ROD, that saves them 1 slot of buff techs. for me I have 2 spot for wand, and left with only 4 for melee/range weapons.. when running out of PP i have to go into invnetory and dig out the weapon. that's the same for using tech... not only that, because of the nature of WT, we tend to fill up with different type of weapon compare to say a Fighgunner who only carries like double saber, and dagger or something. we lose a lot of slots in our inventory for this. and in fact, it is because of this, I lost a relic edge on a relics run...

in addition, i have to pay top price to find/synth elemental weapons to even dish out damage close to hunter classes 3-4 levels below me (even with buff)...

[Reiichi]

The first 2 hits of assault crush do good damage if it's just a single target. The 3rd hit I only use as a fortefighter for incapacitating or if there are more than one target. Damagewise it hits 4 times, but weaker than the first 2 parts. In total it does more damage, but then again it takes longer to come out. As for that video, my experience with the PA has been different. I would do 400s to vandas in the first two parts, then 300s in the 21+ portion. As for why my damage is so different from that video, I think I'd rather trust the online damage vs. offline.

Either way if it's a single target you should be using a spear. Dus daggas ftw until nerfage.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reiichi on 2007-01-23 13:53 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

Error, you could not be more wrong. My main is a ForteFighter. He is great on certain missions, and a royal pain in others. How do I deal with Tengohs? They have 1,000's of HP, and take half damage from melee weapons.

I have no way of applying status, either.

Enter Wartecher. Sure he has only 80% the ATP of a Fortefighter, but when face with melee resistant enemies WTs can switch to bows. If that is not sufficient, they can learn techs that inflict status, AND use Bows.

Now let's more over to Endrum Relics, where robotic enemies have resistance to melee AND bullets. Ok then, WTs will just use techs, and let me tell you, a human WT will put enemies DOWN with a well grinded B rank wand.

Finally, consider MST - the thing that helps keep megids from killing you. WT have the 2nd highest in the game. Jarbras and Linear line are now FAR simpler missions as a result.


WT is a very very solid class. They are 80% a Fortetfighter, and 80% a Fortetecher. That seems gross to me. Humans take full advantage of both these aspects, with Newmans leaning strongly towards casting, and Beasts/Casts strongly towards melee



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-23 16:43 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

Actually, it has been my experience that MST does not in any way decrese your chance of recieving status effects unless you take no damage from the spell. If there is a reduction, it is very small. I die to megid as often as a beast fortefighter does, and I'm a newman wartecher. EVP is my saving grace with megid.

I think you mean Endrum Remnants and you're talking about the bees, which are the only ranged-resitant opponent of the bunch. Lab Recovery also has the bees. Sure, they can be hit hard by diga, but not even a fortetecher can take them out all that quickly. Also, WT spell status effects can never pass SE3, which many opponents are immune to.

I don't really agree with Error, though. Wartechers are a pain in the ass to use, but that doesn't mean they're gimped. I at current have set my palette up like this (since GG officially broke my damn keyboard macro):

Two-hand weapon (or 1-hand quick sub without left-hand complement)
Two-hand weapon
Two-hand weapon (almost always spear or bow)
Ranged and one-hand weapon (can be damage wand or one-handed melee weapon as the situation demands)
Ranged and wand (Resta/reverser)
Ranged and wand (Debuff stick)

Buff sticks are added and then removed from the palette to prevent wasting spots.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-23 16:49, Gamemako wrote:
Actually, it has been my experience that MST does not in any way decrese your chance of recieving status effects unless you take no damage from the spell. If there is a reduction, it is very small. I die to megid as often as a beast fortefighter does, and I'm a newman wartecher. EVP is my saving grace with megid.


well, you are wrong on that note. chance of SE is related to MST. redcuing this damage to zero guarntees it, of couse.


I think you mean Endrum Remnants and you're talking about the bees, which are the only ranged-resitant opponent of the bunch.

According to itsuki robots (grove of fanatics and Endrum Remnants (sorry about that), take 1/2 from melee and bullets.

Also, WT spell status effects can never pass SE3, which many opponents are immune to.

"Only" SE3 you say? ForteFighters only get SE1. That seems lie a mighty fine improvement if you ask me. I'll gladly give up ATP to have vandana's unable to cast Damfoie or Diga. Put Jeleen on the same wand and I can stomp most of Valley of carnage with 2 spells (GiDiga, and Jellen)





Buff sticks are added and then removed from the palette to prevent wasting spots.

This is how I intend to set up as well. Not sure how if I will use double daggers at all - ATP is too poor for a newman to get mileage out of, and single dagger get's the job done.

fists/twin claw
Spear
single daggger or saber (saber's ATP is lovely)
card/wand (Dambarta/other)
handgun/wand (Debuff/other)
handgun/wand (resta/other)

[Nani-chan]

I just got to wt (9) and submitted information for my lvl 60 Beast F

WT (9) Ra (1) Hu (3) Fo (5)
Hp 1873 / 1248 / 1672 / 1217
Atp 480 / 400 / 561 / 341
Ata 116 / 166 / 131 / 106
Tp 351 / 133 / 118 / 412
Dfp 125 / 85 / 129 / 88
Evp 304 / 228 / 156 / 304
Mst 98 / 56 / 48 / 99

Yeah, at lvl 70 I will have over 2000 base hp, over 500 base atp, and possibly over 400 base tp.

[sacasm]
Yeah Wt surely got robbed.
[/sarcasm]

I know this race/job combo (and wt in general) probably has some drawbacks.. but I like playing it to much.

[Alisha]

On 2007-01-23 18:07, SolomonGrundy wrote:

On 2007-01-23 16:49, Gamemako wrote:
Actually, it has been my experience that MST does not in any way decrese your chance of recieving status effects unless you take no damage from the spell. If there is a reduction, it is very small. I die to megid as often as a beast fortefighter does, and I'm a newman wartecher. EVP is my saving grace with megid.


well, you are wrong on that note. chance of SE is related to MST. redcuing this damage to zero guarntees it, of couse.




fail. thats what STA is for by that logic DFP would help against goushins jellen.

[Nani-chan]

Jellen isn't a huge deal as WT can reverser or shifta it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Errorrrr]

On 2007-01-24 12:55, Nani-chan wrote:
I just got to wt (9) and submitted information for my lvl 60 Beast F

WT (9) Ra (1) Hu (3) Fo (5)
Hp 1873 / 1248 / 1672 / 1217
Atp 480 / 400 / 561 / 341
Ata 116 / 166 / 131 / 106
Tp 351 / 133 / 118 / 412
Dfp 125 / 85 / 129 / 88
Evp 304 / 228 / 156 / 304
Mst 98 / 56 / 48 / 99

Yeah, at lvl 70 I will have over 2000 base hp, over 500 base atp, and possibly over 400 base tp.

[sacasm]
Yeah Wt surely got robbed.
[/sarcasm]

I know this race/job combo (and wt in general) probably has some drawbacks.. but I like playing it to much.



yea.. but you will never do as much damage as efficient as say a beast FT... a Beast FT will have way more ATP and HP...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Errorrrr on 2007-01-25 13:15 ]</font>

[Errorrrr]

On 2007-01-20 22:38, VanHalen wrote:
i really dont see how bad lvl 20 techs are. can someone explain to me how not having lvl 30 techs is that bad?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-01-20 22:39 ]</font>


first, your buff don't last as long. second, the potency of the spell decreases a lot from 21 and 20... no one in their right mind with WT will use Tech in say Bruce B... it's just hard without third tier spells... also it's quiet pointless to have 10 in bullets... If i am correct, isn't 11 the threshold to reach next level of status affect?

[Nani-chan]

On 2007-01-25 13:15, Errorrrr wrote
yea.. but you will never do as much damage as efficient as say a beast FT... a Beast FT will have way more ATP and HP...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Errorrrr on 2007-01-25 13:15 ]</font>


You realize FT means fortetecher right? You are completely wrong, should I prove it to you?

My WT (9) has a x1.2 Hp modifier and atp is at x.9, while even a FT (10) has a x.78 hp modifier and atp is at x.6.

I'm not good at math but I can assure you that 1.2 > .78 and .9 > .6

And if you mean Tp then yes Ft will always have more tp and the opportunity to have 30 tech spells (not every FT starts out with them.. my shifta is still good in parties since most FT's still don't have 21+ shifta yet).. I just don't want to play Newman FT.. I got tired of it.

Oh an a fighgunner will never have more hp than me and a fF will have to be (8) before she catches up to my hp. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2007-01-25 13:35 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

fail. thats what STA is for by that logic DFP would help against goushins jellen.

a. buffs/debuffs operate differently, and you know it.
b. EVP blocking goushins DOES stop the jellen
c. STA determines length of time affected by a SE

if you STA reduces damage take a female guntecker/figunner and a male forte fighter to neudiaz (neutral armor), and start a C rank mission. get hit by a barta with either class, note the damage.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-25 13:30 ]</font>

[Reiichi]

I think there's some miscommunication here.

MST will not reduce the chance of you catching on fire or freezing. It only reduces damage.
IF that damge is reduce to 0, then you become immune to said burn or freezing.

DFP will not reduce the chance of jellen. It only reduces damage.
IF that damage is reduced to 0, then you become immune to jellen.

EVP blocks the hit so it never happened pretty much. No jellen on you, and I would guess the same would apply to megid.

STA supposedly reduces the rate at which status effects can land. I think it matters, but I haven't tested it thoroughly. It just always seems that I freeze more often running around with an HP unit instead of a stamina unit. Jellen always lands though if you don't take 0 damage =p

I am not certain on STA reducing duration. Would burn only tick 4 times instead of 5? That would be easy to test.

[Alisha]

it seems pretty obvious to me since characters have like 20+ base STA offline. though i doubt it effects duration.

[huntlyon]

On 2007-01-25 13:17, Errorrrr wrote:

On 2007-01-20 22:38, VanHalen wrote:
i really dont see how bad lvl 20 techs are. can someone explain to me how not having lvl 30 techs is that bad?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-01-20 22:39 ]</font>


first, your buff don't last as long. second, the potency of the spell decreases a lot from 21 and 20... no one in their right mind with WT will use Tech in say Bruce B... it's just hard without third tier spells... also it's quiet pointless to have 10 in bullets... If i am correct, isn't 11 the threshold to reach next level of status affect?



given how forces treat buffs like afterthoughts by and large (save their precious retier), WTs can stay on top of S/D/J/Z constantly. let the fortechers nuke their hearts away.... let the WTs get close as possible to J/Z groups of mobs and keep tabs on the other melees health and buff status.

hell, yesterday I was doing 2 people Relic runs with a fortegunner and we were kicking unbelievable ass... SDJZ, heal, decent damage and mob control let the gunner take care of business.


you don't play WT to be "star of the show".. you play to grease the wheels of a well oiled group as an x-factor of sorts. you have to be versatile to the situation and be able to palette swap.


in regards to level 10 bullets... not being able to SE effectively does suck. but I'm not a ranger so I can live with that. go for straight atp value on handguns, level up one or 2 handgun skills and you're good to go. ground up B'Duki Res will do decent damage given the WT ATP. you will need to use guns due to wand limitation.. might as well be able to damage that isn't laughable. I have yet to mess around with cards, but I'm guessing the damage would stand to be decent.