Ranger: Best Machinegun user? (ppl actually use em' WTF!?)

[juno-6]

I know that the Machinegun is probably the least popular gun or tied with the Handgun for it, but is there someone that can make use of it? Obviosly Casts have the highest ATA and 2nd ATP, but what job? It has to be between these 3 i think....

Guntecher
-S rank Mechgun w/ A rank wand
- good ATA but ATP is nothing to get crazy about

Fighgunner
-A rank Mechgun w/ S rank saber or dagger
- decent ATA, pretty good ATP

Fortegunner
- A rank Mechgun w/ A rank saber or dagger
- Highest ATA, decent ATP

Other things that I think might make a difference is the ultimate BA for it, and i only have lv13 shock on my human GT, does it get better at 21+ or by just being a cast instead?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: juno-6 on 2007-01-25 21:02 ]</font>

[Itsuki]

After one of the future updates, mechguns will get +15% ATP, +10% ATA, and +9% Elemental. And the ult PA is 1% ATA with a faster attack rate that all have vertical launch. Pretty much all classes are equal with this because 1% of anything is crappy ATA.

Personally, I think mechguns are most ideal on a fighgunner. Only becuase they fit the fighgunner playstyle the best.

But if you are actually talking about who is best with them, its fortegunner hands down.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-25 21:46 ]</font>

[Alisha]

wouldnt guntecher be better with them having zodial/zodeel plus their nice gun pp regeneration. that is of course assuming mechgun PP is at least as good online as it is off.

[Nani-chan]

Not sure if zodial would overcome the ata difference.

I haven't seen the stats for S rank mechguns either. Maybe GT will be best in the future.

[juno-6]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, so thaaaaaats what zodial/zodeel are for..........ima have to go buy a Vulcan and try this out.


itsuki - i totally feel you on the fighgunner thing i think a cast fighgunner w/ a dagger would do some fast damage and just be flyin' around everywhere!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: juno-6 on 2007-01-25 22:29 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: juno-6 on 2007-01-25 22:30 ]</font>

[-Crokar-]

i love my mechine on my fighgunner. it does good damage exellent for support

[Itsuki]

On 2007-01-25 22:15, Nani-chan wrote:
Not sure if zodial would overcome the ata difference.

I haven't seen the stats for S rank mechguns either. Maybe GT will be best in the future.



Nani-chan is right on this one. A GT with full buffs and debuffs going on would probably still deal less damage and have less accuracy than a fG against nearly everything.

EDIT: Keep in mind, the fG has like 20% more ATA, and about 15% more ATP. So the ATP difference could theoretically be made up if both shifta and zalure were going on. The ATA difference won't likely be made up. But that takes time to cast and do. fG gets that kind of damage naturally. And in an average party, theres probably going to be someone buffing the fG.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-25 23:12 ]</font>

[Mio]

My fortegunner abuse Mechguns even now! They're very strong and i vote ForteGunner

[Sephlock]

Whats the best machinegun for a fortegunner? is it a grinded B rank one, or an A rank one? There aren't any S rank machineguns out yet for us in the west, right?

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-25 21:45, Itsuki-chan wrote:
After one of the future updates, mechguns will get +15% ATP, +10% ATA, and +9% Elemental. And the ult PA is 1% ATA with a faster attack rate that all have vertical launch. Pretty much all classes are equal with this because 1% of anything is crappy ATA.



the ATA/ATP bump are negligible: 15% of a small number, is a small number. The 9% elemental is very significant. Fortegunner is what I voted as well

[Sephlock]

No verdict on the preferred mechgun for fortegunners? Is it that they are all roughly the same, or is it because there are so few fortegunners using mechguns?

[Itsuki]

On 2007-01-27 20:44, SolomonGrundy wrote:

On 2007-01-25 21:45, Itsuki-chan wrote:
After one of the future updates, mechguns will get +15% ATP, +10% ATA, and +9% Elemental. And the ult PA is 1% ATA with a faster attack rate that all have vertical launch. Pretty much all classes are equal with this because 1% of anything is crappy ATA.



the ATA/ATP bump are negligible: 15% of a small number, is a small number. The 9% elemental is very significant. Fortegunner is what I voted as well



The ATA/ATP bump is combined with your own ATP. At the speed that mechguns fire, the ATP bump is far bigger and far more noticable than the elemental bonus. Combined its a pretty huge difference though.

I don't think I need to do the math to show that 15% ATP gives more of a boost than 9% elemental. 15% is > than 9%, thats all there is too it. XD And with 87% ATA at max level now, they almost never miss.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-27 23:41 ]</font>

[GoldenFalcon]

The update with PA changes will make machine guns almost overpowered against the opposite element, along with shotguns. I would like to see this.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-27 23:36, Itsuki-chan wrote:

I don't think I need to do the math to show that 15% ATP gives more of a boost than 9% elemental. 15% is > than 9%, thats all there is too it. XD And with 87% ATA at max level now, they almost never miss.



uh, maybe you do need to do the math for me? Oh wait, te 15% is being added to the BULLET PA's, not the guns themselves (*smacks self on forehead*). Um, move along folks, nothing to see here...

wow, machine guns got a LOT stronger (!!)

[10ofDiamonds]

I say it's the best with a figunner as well. Usuaully, when I used it I would either:

1. Us the gun to lock the guy in place so I can get close and smack the crap out of him.

2. Use it for crowd control (especially with Rising Fury, confuse is the best SE for large crowds)

[PJ]

On 2007-01-25 22:05, Alisha wrote:
wouldnt guntecher be better with them having zodial/zodeel plus their nice gun pp regeneration. that is of course assuming mechgun PP is at least as good online as it is off.



Wouldn't a Fortegunner have access to Zodial/Zodeel/Shifta/Zalure thanks to, I dunno, Fortetecher/Guntecher/Wartecher in the party anyways?

OH, are we talking about solo? For some dumb reason?

Yeah, Fortegunner.

[Mio]

I posted this on the Ranger topic


About Mechguns, start reconsider them, especially if you are a fortegunner.

The boost mechguns got in jp version is higher than 15%. It actually reach +30%

The bullets ( in fire case ) starts from 111% instead of 101% at level 1. And Get a small bonus either at 11 and 21. Then after level 21, it usually stopped increasing at 125% dmg, now in JP it gets a boost of 2% dmg per level, reaching at level 30 155% bonus dmg! Also the PP cost is less now in JP and the elemental % is 20 at bullet level 21+

Now let's do the math

Let's pretend you are a level 70 Cast 10 Fortegunner with rougly 600 ATP

600 ATP + 55 ATP ( Mechgun ) + 145 ATP ( Solid Power S ) = 800 ATP

800 * 155% = 1240

1240 = 248 dmg per hit unbuffed
*20% against elemental weak = 297 dmg per hit unbuffed
*20% with lvl 3 Shifta = 356 dmg per hit buffed

A mechguns can easily dear 3 or 4 hits in the time of a Single Rifle shot. So if you do 350 dmg per hit ( of course you will do less due to DFP ) this means you're dealing like 1400 dmg in the time of a single Rifle Shot.

I'm finding Mechguns very strong even now without the PA rebalancing.
My fortegunner is lvl 45/4, I deal 130-150 dmg per hit with my lvl 26 Fire Mechgun Bullet.

[Sephlock]

What mechgun are you using, and if its grindable, how much is it grinded?

[-Crokar-]

im using a 9* drumline but my pa is only around a 12 and i hit in the 140's on element advantage and arond155-120 on everything else. but im a lvl 68 fighgunner 9. i dont know who they are best for but i know i like em.

[Arigan]

I like it a lot with a dagger, but that being said, I won't use anything below the 9* one, because honestly the others just dry up on PP WAY too fast to be at all useful in my opinion, but I can actually sustain it for quite a while on fortegunner using a drumline and the original dagger PA.

[Mio]

I use 10 drumlines... that's 8260 pp

[Sephlock]

And an astonishing amount of meseta (to get the guns, I mean)

[Carbinne]

Compare to crossbow:

600 ATP + 275 ATP (8* crossbow) + 145 ATP (Solid/Power S) = 1020

1020 * 165% (30 Yak Banga) = 1683

vs Mechgun at 1240

Consider that every time you fire a volley, it fires three shots of this calibur.
Combine this with a low PP cost, a good recharge rate, 15% element, and Lv3 status...
In practice on my character I slam most monsters for 200-300 per shot (times three)
With a very good chance of status, too.

Considering how absurdly powerful crossbows are, mechs really need this upgrade to
be more competetive. I wouldn't be surprised if the very popular twin handguns turn
out to be nearly as effective as mechguns, even after the upgrade.

[MrFortegunner]

You should be a fighgunner with with an a rank dagger and an ice bullet so right after you bouten Shouren-zan something, you can ice it with the machinegun so that it stops in it's tracks and you can spam bouten shouren-san.