Hunter: When does the advanced class catch up with lv. 10 hu

[Axel3792]

I'm still a Hunter... and even at 8, fF by comparison makes my stats take a dive. So, at what level fF (or any other for that matter) will it catch up with H10?

I've been hearing 3 or 4...

[RadiantLegend]

I think around 4 or 5 for atp and 6 for hp. -_-; or i might be totally wrong

[Axel3792]

Ah... thanks.

[Reiichi]

psuwiki lists HU 10 ATP stat at 125%

It also lists FF 8 ATP at 124% and FF 9 ATP at 126%

[SolomonGrundy]

you will also be gaining character levels during this time.

For me, I became a fF at level 40 (late, I know). Now, at level 51/fF 3, All stat values have been passed EXCEPT ATA, which is still off by 1

[Mattardo]

If you need to be a level 10 Hunter to be a Fortefighter, then one would assume it is because you need to have mastered the skills or have certain stats. Makes sense. One would think you're taking the "next step". But to smack you back down, when you become level 1 Fortefighter? That is nonsensical. Then I should be able to choose that class and bypass Hunter altogether. After looking at Level 10 hunter and level 10 Fortefighter side by side, it seems there is a 3% increase in a few stats. Wow.

[Chuiji]

On-topic: My friend (lv68/lv10fF)'s stats are definitely more than 3% higher as an fF than as an HU.



Maybe on-topic, maybe not: Hunters are all-round fighters, they skirmish, use big swords, whatever. However, when you switch to fF you decide to focus on using big swords. When you switch from HU->fF you're learning a new style of [for want of a better term] fighting.

So, in my little head, it makes sense that you start out worse as a level 1 fF.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chuiji on 2007-01-26 11:27 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

On 2007-01-26 11:26, Chuiji wrote:
On-topic: My friend (lv68/lv10fF)'s stats are definitely more than 3% higher as an fF than as an HU.



Beasts get stat bonuses as fF, you know.

[Chuiji]

He's a human...but maybe it's just because the base numbers are already so high that I think this. /shrug

[NisukeReach]

the ability to use A rank weapons (assuming S rank aren't attainable yet) and their respective level 21-30 photon arts more than makes up for the small dive in HP. You needn't mention the lowering of ATP parameter, damage of B and A rank swords for instance, do NOT compare. Giving you advanced classes gives you a goal, and HUNTER10 thereby becomes an old trophy, hunters are definately surpassed in early levels of FF.

[Reiichi]

Yeah the table seems to be off most likely.

F hume Fortefighter 9 = 587 ATP
F hume Hunter 10 = 551 ATP

My base ATP at 100% should be 466
466 x 126% for fortefighter 9 = 587 ATP
551 ATP / 466 = 118% at HU 10

So if HU10 = 118% ATP modifier, and the table for fortefighter is right, then you should have about the same ATP as a fortefighter 5.

[Mattardo]

I am not so sure that you're learning a new style when you switch to Fortefighter. Hunters use big swords from level 1. Forte usually means you excel in something, so a good translation is Super Hunter. To me it's like a job in real life: if I made 1000 a week as a carpenter, and decided to become an even better carpenter, I shouldn't make 800 a week and have shanky hands and cut my thumbs. That's the whole point. I would want to make even more money a week BECAUSE my skills are better. Hunter level 10 becoming a Super Hunter should not be punished for it. Neither should any other classes. My girlfriend became a Super Ranger and amazingly, some of her stats went up, as they should. PSUpedia lists the gains from hunter 10 to fortefighter 10. The highest I could see was 6% in ATA, 3% in ATP and 5% in DFP. Wow. 3% in attack. http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Types Yet, the description says Fortefighters have unmatched defense and attack. I just don't see the point in making something a requirement, and then smacking you down to before that requirement.

[Liokia]

It is not as though when you change from a base class to a forte class your being punished for doing so. The base classes are a little more spread out in their stats and when you change over you focus more on your classes individual stats.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-26 18:02, Reiichi wrote:
Yeah the table seems to be off most likely.

F hume Fortefighter 9 = 587 ATP
F hume Hunter 10 = 551 ATP

My base ATP at 100% should be 466
466 x 126% for fortefighter 9 = 587 ATP
551 ATP / 466 = 118% at HU 10

So if HU10 = 118% ATP modifier, and the table for fortefighter is right, then you should have about the same ATP as a fortefighter 5.



I believe humans get a bonus in stats to all base classes. this would explian the discrepancy

[VanHalen]

On 2007-01-26 11:14, Mattardo wrote:
If you need to be a level 10 Hunter to be a Fortefighter, then one would assume it is because you need to have mastered the skills or have certain stats. Makes sense. One would think you're taking the "next step". But to smack you back down, when you become level 1 Fortefighter? That is nonsensical. Then I should be able to choose that class and bypass Hunter altogether. After looking at Level 10 hunter and level 10 Fortefighter side by side, it seems there is a 3% increase in a few stats. Wow.



think of it like a job transitional phase

[Mattardo]

Yeh.. transitional phaze back to crap. So if I'm specializing, I still don't see the point in knocking back my health and atp. What would I be specializing in? Is is ForteSwordFighter? ForteAxeFighter? No. It's ForteFighter and the bas requirement is a level 10 Hunter. If they wanna knock me down, fine, but don't make the requirement level 10 Hunter. Face it, Fortefighter doesn't catch up with Hunter for a long time. It's only the A weapons and added combos that give the illusion of it being superior.

[Almalexia]

Except for beasts who get a boost in Ff, it is around Ff4 that you will surpass ATP as a human. DFP is somewhere around Ff3. After Ff5, you get your first big modifier. From 6 onward these modifiers increases. I'm at Ff8 and I'm 50HP behind hunter 10, so I suspect at Ff9 I will surpass it.

Ff10 is the bigger modifier, you should be superior to hunter in this in all stats except EVP and the irrelevant stats(MST, TP).

Ff1 and Ff2 can be discouraging, cause you're almost better off never switching, but hunter restricts you to B weapons and lvl20 PA's. So you have to deal for a while.

[Mattardo]

As far as I can tell from PSUpedia, you will not surpass the Health Points of Hunter level 10 ever. It seems to show it being the exact same. Even though it takes longer to achieve. 130% is the health stat for Hunter 10 and ForteFigther 10. http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Types

[VanHalen]

On 2007-01-28 16:22, Mattardo wrote:
Yeh.. transitional phaze back to crap. So if I'm specializing, I still don't see the point in knocking back my health and atp. What would I be specializing in? Is is ForteSwordFighter? ForteAxeFighter? No. It's ForteFighter and the bas requirement is a level 10 Hunter. If they wanna knock me down, fine, but don't make the requirement level 10 Hunter. Face it, Fortefighter doesn't catch up with Hunter for a long time. It's only the A weapons and added combos that give the illusion of it being superior.


it might take awhile yes but look you just switched from working at McDonalds to working in a office. are you gonna know everything about working in a office from day one? its the same thing in final fantasy 3.

[Mattardo]

But by that logic, I would expect more than the same pay at CEo level in the office. That's what HP is between Hunter 10 and Fortefighter 10: the same. That's why it's messed up. as for ATp, would you be happy working as a CEO if you had only a 3% increase from your McDonald's manager pay? And this isn't Final Fantasy. Or there would be less playing and more movie watching inbetween.

[SolomonGrundy]

until that change the job level cap of expert classes to 20...

[Mattardo]

now that's something that would completely alter the picture, solomon. I never thought about that.

[VanHalen]

On 2007-01-28 16:53, Mattardo wrote:
But by that logic, I would expect more than the same pay at CEo level in the office. That's what HP is between Hunter 10 and Fortefighter 10: the same. That's why it's messed up. as for ATp, would you be happy working as a CEO if you had only a 3% increase from your McDonald's manager pay? And this isn't Final Fantasy. Or there would be less playing and more movie watching inbetween.



well you have a point there but as solomon said expert classes may go up to lvl 20 which would dwarf the hunter atp and dfp. i might have come off like a final fantasy fan in that last post but im not really a big fan of the series.

[NisukeReach]

your analogy is going off on a tangent... would you rather have a lower rate of parameter gain each liscense level, or would you rather just suffer a little from changing classes so promptly? Either way, the advanced liscenses msut be balanced to accomodate EVERY other liscense and possibly the challenege level of the monsters within missions. you're capped at level 10 hunter, and your'e not limited to a very low level as a fortefighter, in fact, i doubt very many people have level 16 or higher in fF. Don't relate game classes to real life professions, they're two different things. For one, professions are economy driven.

[PMB960]

I have a feeling there is very little difference because job levels cannot go to 20 yet. I assume the base classes will still stop at 10, atleast there would be no benefit in going to 20 when you could switch classes and raise every stat. Between level 1 and 10 for fF the ATP stat goes up 18%. From level 10-20 we will probably see a similar increase possibly even as high as 150% ATP boost for level 20 fF.

[Mattardo]

Even without using job analogies, it should be pretty obvious that if something is a requirement, then the next step should be an evolution of that. Not a degradation, no matter what the expected gains in the future. I used analogies to get my point across since most people have just accepted Sega's decision as dogma.

[Coxy]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but I'm pretty sure the expert job classes are getting their level raised to 20, so that should be a decent stat increase

[Almalexia]

On 2007-01-28 16:22, Mattardo wrote:
Yeh.. transitional phaze back to crap. So if I'm specializing, I still don't see the point in knocking back my health and atp. What would I be specializing in? Is is ForteSwordFighter? ForteAxeFighter? No. It's ForteFighter and the bas requirement is a level 10 Hunter. If they wanna knock me down, fine, but don't make the requirement level 10 Hunter. Face it, Fortefighter doesn't catch up with Hunter for a long time. It's only the A weapons and added combos that give the illusion of it being superior.



The point of it can easily be understood with this phrase:

"Calm before the storm".

It is not an illusion. You have to realize that Hunter 8-10 has big modifiers of it's own just like Fortefighter. These mods are significantly larger than the first couple lvls of Fortefighter. After 6 though, hunter starts to have a little trouble keeping up.
.

[Mattardo]

I understand Hunter has modifiers of it's own at 8-10. But you start out as a Hunter. You don't start out stronger, choose hunter and anticipate the day you're as strong as you used to be.

[Axel3792]

If I understand right, it takes 150 mp to go from H9 to H10, and 400 to go from fF1 to fF2.

To reach fF4 it will take 1.5 times the mp experience as it does to get H10 total...

Is this right!? If so, that sucks. Good thing I'm Lv. 37 and able to mooch S-Rank missions off high-level friends...

[Mattardo]

Don't worry, it only takes a total of 8000 mission points to go from level 1 Fortefighter to level 10 Fortefighter. Then you'll have a 3% attack boost! Awesome! Sega really wants us to pay that monthly fee for a loooooooooong time. Eh, it's only 8000 mission points. no biggie.

[Pikadrew]

Been lurking in this thread for a while, and been noticing a few people chiming in that advanced jobs will be going up to 20. Where is everyone getting this information?

and ontopic...It's been said before, but I can't stress enough the ability to use A and S rank weapons. They make a huge difference compared to B (unless you've ground them to +10). That in addition to the stat boost (which there is. There's no denying that.) seems like it's a win/win situation for advancing jobs.

And of course it's going to take an obscene amount of MP to get to FF lvl10. I'd be pissed if it didn't. I know I personally don't want a bunch of maxed out chars running around at like lvl45. It would ruin what little balance the game has.

[Mattardo]

The stat boost for Fortefighter cannot be denied. You're forgetting that its still only very teensy weensy. So small. Wee.

[NisukeReach]

If S-rank swords and axes were available, i'd want fortefighters (inlcuding my own) to have a lower ATP total. forget about the gain through job liscenses, level ups provide more of a bonus than mostly anything. Lose 15 points in attack and maybe a couple hundred hp? I've to gain a few levels to make that up along the way. The level cap in japanese has been for a long time, level 100. Please think ahead a little, chainging to fF is only the beginning.

there is no point argueing this any further, there's probably enough information mentioned in this thread to remove any new fF's ambition of leveling their class... most people are concentrated on their CLVL, PM's, and equipment to worry about their advanced classes in the first place - they know that they'll level up eventually. in my opinion, this thread has long lost its purpose

[Mattardo]

Most people are obsessed with leveling their classes. If it wasn't so, then s-ranks wouldn't prompt people to kick those who die without a scape doll. I'm convinced that most people are paid by Sega to never complain. This thread would not have been so long if apologists hadn't dragged their sega-sponsored opinions into it. But that's what this is about... everyone voices their opinions. Someone asks a question, several people reply, some of those people get annoyed with the other posters, and voila! The thread becomes unwieldy. How fun!

[rena-ko]

the biggest adv of fF over hunter is that youre allowed to use A rank and S rank weaponry. the slightly better stats you get are actually just a bonus concerning that.

for the joblevel cap raise to 20. thats wishful thinking, actually. dont expect that to happen anytime soon, if at all.

[Mattardo]

That's exactly what I've been saying: A and S rank weapons. The stats are almost the same of a hunters.

[Almalexia]

Ff surpasses hunter in HP at lvl9. (for human)


Don't worry, it only takes a total of 8000 mission points to go from level 1 Fortefighter to level 10 Fortefighter. Then you'll have a 3% attack boost! Awesome! Sega really wants us to pay that monthly fee for a loooooooooong time. Eh, it's only 8000 mission points. no biggie.

Sure it's 3%?. And if you're same Mattardo that I partied with in Moonlight Beast A with Sakura, you're also a human. We don't get huge boosts like beasts do because there is no bonus. You are also just fortefighter 2.

Here is the boosts per Ff lvl that I saved up until now.

Fortefighter 3 (http://grandia-saga.net/images/human_ff3.jpg)
Fortefighter 4 (http://grandia-saga.net/images/human_ff4.jpg)
Fortefighter 5 (http://grandia-saga.net/images/human_ff5.jpg)
Fortefighter 6 (http://grandia-saga.net/images/human_ff6.jpg)
Fortefighter 7 (http://grandia-saga.net/images/human_ff7.jpg)
Fortefighter 8 (http://grandia-saga.net/images/human_ff8.jpg)
Fortefighter 9 (http://grandia-saga.net/images/human_ff9.jpg)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Almalexia on 2007-02-05 06:41 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Almalexia on 2007-02-05 06:41 ]</font>

[Mattardo]

How many Mattardos could there be? You caught me. I am ashamed. I want it to be known that by playing as a Fortefighter, does not mean I condone the horrible stat boosts. I just like the prettty axes and swords. I only use them grudgingly. And guiltily.

[Almalexia]

You shouldn't be ashamed D:. Truth be told, I'm not too happy with my strength myself, but that's what happens when one refuses to jump on the overrated beast fortefighter bandwagon.

All advance classes arguebly have 'horrible' boost when looked at from the same perspective(Protranser has nothing to compare against since you need Hunter, Ranger and Force to 5(10?)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Almalexia on 2007-02-05 08:57 ]</font>

[Neith]

I'm lv63 Beast F, lv6 fF, and HU 10 is better statwise for everything apart from DFP, and one or two other stats. Most stats would still increase if I went back to Hunter http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Mattardo]

At last, someone who isn't being paid off by sega programmers to tell the awful truth!

[imfanboy]

I can't imagine why anyone would start whining about this now - you've known about the fact that the fortefighter has only marginally better stats than the hunter for, oh, THREE MONTHS NOW? Since Itsuki posted the thread that stated very clearly that if you only care about numbers, the hunter has MARGINALLY better stats until you get up to FF10?

No, even then, the hunter has a better WOW factor. Compare at level to:

HP ATP DEF ATA EVA STA Luck TP MST Total
Hunter 1.3 1.25 1.45 0.94 0.8 1 1 0.3 0.5 8.54
Fortefighter 1.3 1.28 1.5 1 0.5 1 1 0.25 0.5 8.33

GASP!!! THE HUNTER HAS A TOTAL OF .21 MEOR TAHN TEH FOTEFITER!!! TEH FOTEFITER IS GIMP!!!!

By that thought, then, the FORTETECHER WOULD BE THE ONLY CLASS WORTH PLAYING.

HP ATP DEF ATA EVA STA LUCK TP MST Total
Fortetecher 0.78 0.6 0.6 0.6 2 1 1 1.44 2.45 10.47

SEEE!!!! IT HAS A TOTAL STAT MULTIPLIER OF 10.47!!! FORTETECHER FTW!!!

Here's a funny thought though: The basic Force has FAR BETTER STATS in HP, ATP, DEF, ATA, and barely worse in Evp than the fortetecher when you compare their level 10 stats. Why don't you see people starting "Force is better than fortetecher WTF threads" to match this one?

"Because people who play forces are slightly brighter than the average braindead forumwhore?" you respond, and you're probably right, but that's not the whole answer, for you see, Fortetechers realize that there are some things more important than mere numbers.

For fortefighters, little things like, oh, I dunno.... axes, and single claws, and a ranks, and S ranks later on, and handgund better than C so you can actually HIT flying enemies, and reduced PP cost on all melee photon arts so you can dish out more damage while regen'ing PP faster than your mere hunter buddy, and level 21+ PAs, and...

All you can see are numbers, and not the meaning behind them, Mattardo. It IS an upgrade; you take a slight hit in stats that you earn back later on order to get access to much better things right now.

I don't know what line of bull your ranger friend was feeding you, but ALL the classes take a hit in every stat when you move to an advanced class. Here's Ranger 10 and Fortegunner 1:
HP ATP DEF ATA EVA STA Luck TP MST Total
Ranger 1.04 0.94 1 1.45 1.24 1.1 1 0.35 0.6 8.72
ForteG 0.8 0.86 0.6 1.5 1.4 1.25 1.3 0.3 0.5

Some pretty big hits there, wouldn't you say? And not exactly a lot of gains in the stats that DO go up, eh? The only stat that expands WILDLY above the basic Ranger is ATA, and that's because fortegunners NEED lots of ATA to hit with some of those photon bullets.


Back to the Fortefighter.

First on the important list, reduced PP cost. Now, maybe it's just me, but I play 3 hunter types (WT, figunner, and fortefighter) and I notice a HUGE difference in my ability to spam PAs when I get the chance to play with my fortefighter. Surely you've noticed it too, since you've obviously switched back to hunter in a fit of pique over how lousy the fortefighter stats are?

In case you haven't noticed, PAs at 21+ are much better than level 20. 3 combos deals more damage from both more hits and higher %, the Att % is higher (which might be just a little bit important to us low ATA warrior-types), and for a lot of weapons that dish out a lot of damage in the first two combos, the third hit knocks back or knocks up enemies, thus preserving your (somewhat) lowered HP?

For Fortefighters in particular, A ranks are very important. Why? Well, you can't exactly grind up that little stat called Att, A ranks have much higher Att than ordinary weapons, and guess what you don't have a lot off? That's right, accuracy!

Single claws and axes are two very powerful weapons. Single Claws have quick, nasty, FAST knockup/knockback combined with good stats; and axes hands-down dish out WAY more damage, particularly with Anka Redda, than any other weapon in the game. I'm dealing out (on average, with a 20% 7* elemental axe) 2400-3000 points of damage with a PA of only 16 in close to 4-5 seconds. I see people with a higher level than me hitting NON-CRIT for around 1000 on a single blow, and if you maneuver right you can smash MULTIPLE areas on many of the larger enemies for much more damage than that.


the only, the only stat that's sharply different from fortefighter to hunter, that drops a fair amount (whoo! 30%!) is HP... but really, you can get to HU 10 at about level 35-40, when you'll be losing AT MOST 150HP, maybe 200. What's that, one extra hit from a monster, meaning you have to be a little bit more alert with the mates so you don't wreck the team's S-rank?

[Mattardo]

I've said it before multiple times: the basic advantages to being an advanced class are A and S weapons and additional combos. I'm trying Fortefighter now to see how the axes are. Slow. If I want to spam PAs on the axes my whole career as a Fortefighter, then yes, I suppose I could do a lot of damage. Expensive, yes. Lots of photon charges in my pocket. My ranger friend fed me no bull as I saw the change with my own eyes. ATA went up ad that is good. You state that basically "duh it has to go up, that's what rangers need". That's one of my points: A ranger's important stat goes up from the beginning of Fortegunner, a Fortefighters does not and will not for many levels. I've known about this for months, yes, this is true. It's the reason I went from Hunter to Wartekker. I just didn't see the sense in it at the time - switching to Fortefighter and crippling myself. If I was going to cripple myself, i was going to do it with the ability to cast spells. I played Wartekker until level 7 and decided to try out Axes. It's fun being a dedicated hunter again, but that doesn't mean I don't feel ripped off. And it doesn't mean I'm going to apologize for Sega. As any person who knows how to grind and choose elements carefully will tell you, there are B weapons that are better damage dealers than A weapons. S rank weapons? Some day we'll have 'em. Honestly, do you work for Sega's customer service departmet, Imfanboy? I'd be interested in hearing your apologetics on other complaints about this game. I'd like to know Sega's take on the matter.

[Almalexia]

I reccomend this to you: CAST is the closest thing to being better than beasts in fortefighter. Technically humans shouldn't be anything outside of hybrid classes. It's just not a big deal because we suffer from nothing, but we get NO bonus in classes outside of hybrid ones!

It's not good to do something you're not happy with. You're clearly not happy with the results of the fantastic advance job. You're going to stick it out because of 'one' of it's defining weapons(Axe, Spear, knuckles, and Twin Claws). But always in the back of your mind you're going to feel 'ripped off' as you say. That's going to take away from your fun man.

[Axel3792]

On 2007-02-06 05:40, Almalexia wrote:
It's not good to do something you're not happy with. You're clearly not happy with the results of the fantastic advance job.


If you are talking about me (the OP), I love my male beast fF. Yeah, the stat dive sucks at first, but as you level, it works out, so it's not bad at all.

If not, then meh, you at least know what I think. lmao

[Deus-Irae]

On 2007-02-06 05:25, Mattardo wrote:
I've said it before multiple times: the basic advantages to being an advanced class are A and S weapons and additional combos.

you're completely (conveniently) ignoring all of the other bonus' that imafanboy listed in his topic.

basically if the pluses outweigh the minuses in your view, then dont make the switch. no one is forcing you to go FF.

i dont see how bitching about it endlessly is going to solve any of the drawback you see in switching to an advanced class.

[RadiantLegend]

I dont do theories with numbers and what not....i believe what i see.

My Lv70/10 Cast beats hunter lv 10 in every stat except evp. Reduced PP cost and 9* lv 30 Anga redda. Have you seen the dmg that thing does on the last PA?

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-02-06 05:25, Mattardo wrote:
Honestly, do you work for Sega's customer service departmet, Imfanboy? I'd be interested in hearing your apologetics on other complaints about this game. I'd like to know Sega's take on the matter.


I think it's pathetic how hard the community's trying to help you understand the basics of the game, given how you're treating everyone with a different opinion. Stay Hunter if the advantages of switching from Hunter to ForteFighter are too hard to figure out. Even at rank 1 with the exact same gear you should easily be doing more damage overall.

It's only a 15% drop in ATP from Hunter 10 to ForteFighter 1... making use of a single one of FF's advantages for equipment or Photon Arts will overcome that.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-02-06 10:22 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-02-06 12:54 ]</font>

[imfanboy]

EDIT: Clipped pointless flame out.


We've already pointed out why the fortefighter is better, Mattardo, you just don't want to listen.

Go whine somewhere else.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: imfanboy on 2007-02-06 13:30 ]</font>

[Mattardo]

I was answering someone's post on the subject. If it's whining, then it's whining. So be it. The same accusation could be said to anyone criticizing anything. "Oh, you're just whining." Who cares? When you pay $50 for a game disc, $10 a month and loads of your time: you have a right to whine. Sure, I could just stop playing or I could resign myself to some of the more silly decisions that have been made in the game. The latter seems to work for some of you. Can anyone honestly sit there and say that Fortefighter would not be better if the stats were better than Hunter 10 from the get-go? For Pete's sake, Hunter 10 is a requirement. Someone earlier stated that I should be easily doing more damage as a level 1 Fortefighter than as a level 10 Hunter with the same exact gear. That...is just not true. Maybe it's because I'm a human and not a glorified Beast. Not sure on that. Several people have pointed out how they think Fortefighter is better (race bonuses, A weps, more PAs). Good for you. Several people have also pointed out how it's NOT better. Instead of telling me to get lost and stop whining, why don't you just agree to disagree? There is no ultimate dogmatic answer to this, and if you think there is, then you're too much of a fanboy of Sega to realize that Sega makes mistakes. Half the damn threads in this forum are pointing out Sega's mistakes and whining about them. I guess that makes me a normal forum user. And Panzer, several people on a thread on a forum is not the PSU community trying to reprogram me from my ignorant ways. If that was the case, then Universe 2 would be empty and Universe 15 would be full, wouldn't it? Seriously, Imafanboy, change your name and I would take what you say seriously and not through the impression that your'e a Fan Boy to Sega no matter what.

[Almalexia]

On 2007-02-06 06:10, Axel3792 wrote:

On 2007-02-06 05:40, Almalexia wrote:
It's not good to do something you're not happy with. You're clearly not happy with the results of the fantastic advance job.


If you are talking about me (the OP), I love my male beast fF. Yeah, the stat dive sucks at first, but as you level, it works out, so it's not bad at all.

If not, then meh, you at least know what I think. lmao



I was talking to Mattardo. You've got your answer(several as a matter of fact) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

[imfanboy]

Wow, I've been called a fanboy of many things, but never of Sega. iamfanboy is my usual handle on any forum I visit.

In point of fact, I dislike most of Sega's games, but I did enjoy PSO and I do kind of like PSU.


But the game balance is fairly solid. Even though you won't listen, here's a thumbnail again of what fortefighters get:

Better PA usage through discounted cost and increased PP regeneration (and since PA spamming IS what deals damage, it's what you should do)

Better weapons

Better PAs


Set against that, who cares about a hundred HP or so? Why do you care? All of the classes take a HP hit.

You're right, Fortefighters are the only ones that don't rise above their base class in stats, but Have you thought about why?

Because it would unbalance them when using the extremely high power weapons like A and S rank axes, swords, and spears. Hell, they already were unbalanced when using daggers and spear PAs which is why the PAs got nerfed - and my wartecher got hit hard.

As it stands, fortefighters don't NEED the higher stats to stay functional and important members of a party, not like rangers NEED higher ATA, and fortetechers NEED higher MST. Why give them more in a stat that will only contribute to game imbalance?

[Mattardo]

How much more balancing can they do? Wartekker's hard enough to use as it is, with the lag causing slow weapon loading. Pretty soon they'll decide that every PA is overpowerful. Funny, I thought the point of Pas was to be powerful at the cost of PP. Not to mention the leveling involved of the PA itself. Power. I want power to crush and kill! I want to be unbalanced. And I agree: PSO was much better. Perhaps that's my gripe. I expect PSO out of PSU. sigh

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-02-06 15:02, Mattardo wrote:
For Pete's sake, Hunter 10 is a requirement. Someone earlier stated that I should be easily doing more damage as a level 1 Fortefighter than as a level 10 Hunter with the same exact gear. That...is just not true.

You should try using your photon arts I guess. Better moves and heavier use blow away the Hunter's little 5~10% advantage on total ATP.

[Mattardo]

I hate to revisit this pointless thread, but I think it's eerily odd what I said in my post up above: how universe 2 would be dead, and everyone would be on Universe 15. I am a Prophet and I my words have tested true. I have been sent by He who sees all: the Rappy God! Heed my words or suffer eternal damnation at the hands of Red Ring Rico, the opposer to the Rappy God's good works. Sorry. I just thought that was kinda odd.

[Almalexia]

On 2007-02-06 16:37, Mattardo wrote:
How much more balancing can they do? Wartekker's hard enough to use as it is, with the lag causing slow weapon loading. Pretty soon they'll decide that every PA is overpowerful. Funny, I thought the point of Pas was to be powerful at the cost of PP. Not to mention the leveling involved of the PA itself. Power. I want power to crush and kill! I want to be unbalanced. And I agree: PSO was much better. Perhaps that's my gripe. I expect PSO out of PSU. sigh



I read this as the best usage of sarcasm I've ever seen on an internet forum.



Too bad it's not sarcasm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

[Schubalts]

On 2007-02-08 16:30, Almalexia wrote:

On 2007-02-06 16:37, Mattardo wrote:
How much more balancing can they do? Wartekker's hard enough to use as it is, with the lag causing slow weapon loading. Pretty soon they'll decide that every PA is overpowerful. Funny, I thought the point of Pas was to be powerful at the cost of PP. Not to mention the leveling involved of the PA itself. Power. I want power to crush and kill! I want to be unbalanced. And I agree: PSO was much better. Perhaps that's my gripe. I expect PSO out of PSU. sigh



I read this as the best usage of sarcasm I've ever seen on an internet forum.



Too bad it's not sarcasm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.





You mean that WASN'T sarcasm?!

[Mattardo]

That still doesn't change the fact that I'm a prophet. Sega has created Rappies, and the belief of many have made their existence a reality. I am their messenger. And they have told me that the nerfing of PAs is paramount to admitting that they have made a mistake. Would Sega do that? Admit to being wrong? Or would they be admitting to buckling to japanese player pressure? I personally did NOT send them an e-mail requesting my nerfdom.