units that affects stats, and equipping/boosting

[SolomonGrundy]

Relatively simple questions. Let's say you have an arm unit that adds ATP.

will this additional ATP help you equip weapon taht you do not qualify for with your base stat?

when shifta is used on you, does the shifta ALSO affect the unit?

[Sephlock]

IIRC, no.

I do seem to recall it helping in PSO though.

[Soukosa]

Only the base stats have any impact on the requirements of gears. Units, buffs, etc won't help you out in that respect.

Buffs like Shifta should take into account the added stats from the units but it'd currently be rough to completely check that since the effects of the buffs don't show up in any of the listed stats.

[Itsuki]

Buffs like Shifta should take into account the added stats from the units but it'd currently be rough to completely check that since the effects of the buffs don't show up in any of the listed stats.
I'll second that.

PSU handles everything kind of on the fly. Weapon attack power, base attack power, and unit's attack power are all completely seperate. And they're combined together on the fly, but the order is all questionable. You'd have to do some pretty intricate hackery to really check this.

[JAFO22000]

Yeah, one thing I miss from PSO....it gave you base stats, then your stats with all items currently equipped right next to in it (parentheses). That way, you knew what was going on.

For example, you'd have

ATA 360 (480)
ATP 500 (896)
DEF 187 (756)

etc....where the first number was your base and the second being your actual with everything equipped. I miss this.

[SolomonGrundy]

for shifta it should be easy? Just take a low level character, in B rank armor, and add a unit which has a LOT of ATP (like the one that sacs ATA for ATP). Cast shifta, record damage. Use a weapon with low ATP (twin daggers)

50 ATP is a lot on a character that only has 200

I was thinking c rank yohemi daggers on a wartecher newman female



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-29 16:51 ]</font>

[Itsuki]

Welllllll........

Offline hackery. Using a level 1 female newman hunter using a 1 star youmei saber. 87 total atp. Also using S-rank armor and the S-rank unit that gives +150atp. I hacked myself up to level 30 rising strike and level 30 agtal (shifta) and locked my base level at 1.

no-shifta, no unit: 8, 18
no-shifta, with unit: 39, 65

shifta, no unit: 13, 25
shifta, with unit: 51, 85

What does this mean? This means everything is added up before shifta is applied, and before the PA is applied.
(stats + weapon + equipment)*(PA modifier)*(buff modifier)

EDIT: Unit was 150, not 250atp.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-29 19:23 ]</font>

[Alisha]

i dont know if it works this way online but offline boosts from units are NOT factored into PA percentages. its really easy to check. wich in my opinion makes ata units far superior to atp ones. and it wouldnt suprise if shifta doesnt take atp from units into consideration but that would be more difficult to discern. probally the best way to see is by using a bow that way you remove dfp from the equasion.

[Itsuki]

Nope, I was right with my initial statement. The unit was just 150atp not 250atp. Confused me for a minute. But, heres the math to back it up:

Observed PA value: 65
[(87+150)*1.55-40)] = 65 <- This is the unit affected by PA modifier
(87*1.55+150-40) = 49 <-- this is unit NOT AFFECTED

Observed normal attack value: 39
(87+150-40)/5 = 39

This shows that the 150atp from the unit HAS to be effected by the PA aswell.

EDIT: The 40 defence is an assumed value for the delsaban I was fighting. This was obtained by [(actual ATP / 5) - observed dmg] * 5

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-29 21:21 ]</font>

[Alisha]

well yeah i'm thinking unit boosts are either added last or before buffs and after pa%. also i just tried a orpa/power charge with a Ulteri....LOL. your PP gets raped but the damage is win. i think you can break 2000 total atp if Ulteri gets to 1000 atp by (10)

edit:time paradox!

no fair editing while i was writing my post =P

math makes my head spin.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2007-01-29 19:28 ]</font>

[Itsuki]

Sorry, I posted, then realized something wasn't adding up. So i had to do the math real fast again, and try again. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif; To my knowledge you can't delete posts on this forum, so I was at a loss.

[Alisha]

you can delete posts. go to edit then theres a check box that says delete this post then you press submit.

[Golto]

Hmm where does elemental advantage/disadvanatge get calculated? Before -dfp?

[Tycho]

Yes, before DFP/MST.

[SolomonGrundy]

So if I read this correctly, then not only do units count twds when using shifta, but are are also included in your ATP when you use a PA (which I long suspsected)

Note: Itsuki - it really does not matter what the defense of the monster in question was. As long as you use the SAME monster you can divide out the variable, or use an assumed value.

I lurve me some math http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Itsuki]

On 2007-01-30 10:09, SolomonGrundy wrote:
So if I read this correctly, then not only do units count twds when using shifta, but are are also included in your ATP when you use a PA (which I long suspsected)

Note: Itsuki - it really does not matter what the defense of the monster in question was. As long as you use the SAME monster you can divide out the variable, or use an assumed value.

I lurve me some math http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



You get more exact numbers if you estimate the value of defence. Otherwise all my values would be off by 8 damage.

[Golto]

Speaking of shifta if a cast uses a suv and a force casts shifta fast enough the cast will have shifta before the suv attacks. Anyone try this and notice any damage increase? This does not work with nanoblasts.

[Itsuki]

On 2007-01-30 11:13, Golto wrote:
Speaking of shifta if a cast uses a suv and a force casts shifta fast enough the cast will have shifta before the suv attacks. Anyone try this and notice any damage increase? This does not work with nanoblasts.



Sounds like a bug, something they'd try to patch if they could. Umm... my initial guess would be no. But this is a really hard one to test. And I'm never much of one to abuse exploits.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-30 12:03 ]</font>

[Alisha]

no that doesnt work. just like nano blasts using a SUV clears all negative and positive buffs. i've also seen maya cast dizas while i was SUV'ing and i didnt receive it.

[Golto]

Well i've had the shifta icon near my name while using suv but I didn't pay attention to the dmg done. The force has to cast shifta right after you active your suv. So you get it before it fires.

[Itsuki]

you resist buffs while in SUV, this means it would have to be lag or glitch related.