Random hypothetical question

[Soukosa]

May be random but not too simple. Came about while chatting with a friend and got me really wondering now, so I hope there's at least a reasonable amount of people mature enough here to answer it.

Say you meet someone online that you then become friends with. The friendship lasts for some time and eventually you start to become close. Being that its some one of the desirable sex to you, the desire for it to become a deep and lasting relationship comes about between the two of you. Only at this point, they come out to you stating that they're actually a transsexual and have been going about as the opposite sex online since they greatly desire to be that way and really hope to be that sex one day.

So now, what would you do? Can love to you get past it or would you not be able to continue on?

[Kent]

In general, people capable of such great lies are not worth associating with.

Honesty is one of the key foundations, to any lasting, meaningful relationship. True, admitting it is certainly honest... But the fact that they are someone who pulled off such a huge lie, in the first place, means they should be punished - with not getting the pleasure of your presence.

There are few things that vex me moreso, than lies.

[ABDUR101]

*hypothetical response not directed at anyone*
I have to agree, if they cared about you, they'd have been open enough to let you in the know. HOWEVER, the fact that they DID finally come out, is important. They put themselves 'out there' for you, and that takes alot of courage, expecially to someone you care about.

This is a question that transcends alot of things. Does your love of this person go above repulsion? Some people are honestly repulsed at the thought of being with a transexual, but if you see them for who they are, and what you love about them, isn't that what matters? If you see someone beautiful, inside and out, regardless of the surgery they went through, thats what matters.

[Alisha]

i've been through this before a few times and it's why i now shy away from romance online. in the context of pso/psu i could still play with that person if they are a good player/fun to be around but the love would quickly fade. because of this i'm afraid to get to close to people,wich is why i'm apprehensive about things like voice chat. in one case the person didnt tell me but instead disapeared deleted all her webspace and reappeared a few months later as a male. but everyone that knew her closely knew they were both the same person. despite knowing this i turned a blind eye and didnt confront him about it because i enjoyed playing with that person. perhaps i'm far too forgiving.

[Solstis]

Hum.

I have wondered how I would handle dating a transsexual, and I believe that I might have some difficulties with the relationship as it developed. Now, if it were an online relationship, I probably would separate myself. Then again, online relationships can be dangerous waters in general.

[Siertes]

Doesn't matter how strongly I previously felt about the person. I have a perception of what an ideal relationship would be like, and anything that doesn't fall into to that I don't want to deal with. If she wasn't a she, the equation is broken and everything else falls apart.

[Squall179]

I'm more of the type thats a little more forgiving in a case like that...I have a transsexual friend though, so I get to see what its like for them.

[Obscenity]

The obscuring of the truth would bother me more than the transexuality/ism/ness.

[Blitzkommando]

I've been hurt by lies in the past (who hasn't?) so for someone who claims to have such feelings for me to suddenly come out saying the opposite of what was said before would certainly concern me. It might not necessarily cause me to drop relations with them (it would have to come out in a very horrible manner for it to come to that) but I likely would have problems continuing any sort of romantic relations. Unfortunately, in the end, both sides get hurt in a situation like that and there's no way to avoid it no matter how it is handled. I just have very strong ideals and beliefs on honesty and lieing.

Now, had the relationship somehow developed where I simply assumed the other person were a woman and it was my assumption that caused the mess I would feel it my duty to apologize for assuming when I should have asked. Where a situation like that would go would depend on how forgiving the other person is of myself. This type of situation would apply no matter if the other person were a transsexual, gay, straight, bi, or what have you. But again, I see that both sides would be hurt no matter how the outcome.

[Nai_Calus]

The thing is that, in an actual case of transgenderism, regardless of the actual physical sex, the person in question is mentally the gender they've been claiming, and many people who are legitimately transgendered, if they have the opportunity to so, will eventually go on hormones and eventually likely get SRS. It's not always possible - Doctors who don't/won't/can't understand can interfere, none of the process is cheap and none of it is covered by health insurance - Issues like these can prevent people from being able to fix themselves. And it is fixing. It's not something that will just go away if you try to be more manly/feminine.

And then you have a huge complication going on with the telling. OK, so, your genes/brain chemistry is out of whack and you have... I dunno. Some degenerative disease that will eventually cripple you. Or maybe you're a carrier for some horrible genetic thing you're likely to pass to your children. If it's not outwardly apparent, do you go around advertising it? Will it even come up before the point where you start talking with Cute Girl/Guy about kids? Possibly not. It's not something you want to talk about. It's not something most people want to hear about. Most people aren't going to sabotage their chances at a relationship from the get-go by saying "Oh hey, I have blahblahblah, what's your name?" or some similar revelation right off the bat.

But those are things that are less secret, more accepted. If you have, say, MS, and you tell people, they'll be sympathetic. Oh, poor you, they'll say, I'm so sorry.

But... OK, come out as gay. Half the world instantly hates you, but eh, these days it's not so bad. Come out as transgendered, or get found out, and... Well. People have been raped and murdered because other people, people they thought were their friends, found out. Furthermore, it usually is something you're not open about. You hide it. You start the transitioning process and you hide it and then you probably move away to some other city where they don't know you as Bob, they know you as Betty. Or vice versa in the case of female to male. Very likely, in most cases, you go to great lengths to make sure that none of your new friends ever knows.

So, you would act normal. You would flirt with the boys, hang out with the girls. (Or flirt with the chicks and hang out with the boys) It wouldn't even come up, there would be no reason for it to... Until things started to really get Serious. Until you thought you could really trust this person. And then you would wrestle with it, afraid to lose this person. Really, same thing if you haven't started transitioning and you were having an online relationship. When it starts to head in a serious direction, that is when the truth has hit its time to be revealed. This is when the knowledge is important. When things like kids and meeting and marriage come up. When like and lust turn into talk of forever.

And then yes, you have quite a dilemma as the other side of it, the non-trans side. In the case of the pre-transitioned person, you have been mislead in a physical sense. This person is the smart, funny girl of your dreams on the inside, but something went wrong along the way and she's stuck in the body of a man, though she aims to fix it. You can either turn in disgust and prove you probably weren't worth her time anyway, for this reaction is a betrayal of all she has entrusted to you; or you can take her as she is and get over it and realize that life and love are complicated, sometimes painful things. And remember that it's not really been a lie, and that she misled you because she had to, because if you'd known from day one that her birth certificate still says George, or whatever, you might not have looked at her twice.

And if the person is post-transition, it's important knowledge then because no, you're not going to be able to have children.

People are, unsurprisingly, human. They are frail, foolish creatures who fumble about and try to figure out the best way to handle things. And sometimes there is no best way. Until society evolves to the point where we see things like transgenderism as what they are, cruel twists of fate some people have to deal with, this kind of situation simply cannot be dealt with in a way that will not at some point greatly hurt those involved. We need to learn to understand that these are not sickos out to mislead and lie, these are people trying to deal with what life has given them in the best way they can figure out how. Learn that sex and gender are two different things, and that they do not always neatly match. Sometimes one or the other is entirely ambiguous, even. Hermaphrodites and those whose gender aspect is mixed as well. Humans are anything but black and white.

But back to the original question, if I really truly had feelings for the person, if I really did see them as someone I wanted to meet and get to know the annoying in-person quirks and habits of, and they came out to me with this knowledge, I would actually feel glad that they trusted me enough to let me know this. To let me know that yes, here is this issue, I trust you and think I love you and I want you to know what's really going on so that if you can't deal with it you can run away before you get too hurt, or if you can deal with it that we can go on with full knowledge of the situations we'll need to face.

Some people are open and honest from the beginning, yes, some people are more outspoken and fearless than others and in a more comfortable position. But many more will never say a word until they absolutely have to, for fear of their job, their friends and even their life. Society does not make it easy for those seen as 'different', and Gods help you if you're something society brands 'deviant'.

Interestingly enough, Female to Males, I've noticed, are quite often much more open about it than Male to Females - Possibly because it's not seen as nearly as bad for someone with female physical characteristics to have more typically masculine traits, whereas it's extremely taboo still for someone who is physically male to have traits seen as feminine - A girl in overalls climbing a tree is a 'tomboy', a boy in a dress playing with dolls is a 'sissy' and 'queer' and while the girl will 'grow out of it, leave her alone', the boy's behaviour, in society's eyes, must be quashed immediately or else. I rather detest the double standards placed on gender roles. Why can't little Timmy wear that pretty dress he likes the looks of and play with the doll like he wants to? And why is it OK if little Susie wears jeans and t-shirts and plays with cars? Why is short hair on girls OK but if a man grows his hair out he's 'girly' and 'faggy'?

Pardon me, this is a subject I've spent many years thinking about and researching, so I get beyond the scope of topics easily.

But yes, basic answer: Bring it on. If I truly have feelings for this person, I have feelings for them, period. If they are actually someone I truly see as being a candidate for my lifetime partner, I don't give a flying goddamn what the physical body is like. Just as it's not important if the person is fat or skinny. Oh, the physical is always important on *some* level, of course, it's a lie to say it isn't, but if the person plans to make the change when they can, that's taken care of, as far as I'm concerned, it will eventually be that way. And until then... In this hypothetical situation, I fell in love with a mind, yeah? And while sex would be out until after the final surgery, kissing, holding hands, cuddling on the couch, those things are still applicable, yes?

Heh. Interesting reversal to ponder, here: You're transgendered, male to female, but you don't come out with it online, you pretend that your exterior sex is what really reflects your mind, thus being 'honest' about the physical reality while lying about the mental reality. In the course of your adventures, you start talking to this guy. He turns out to be gay. He thinks you're male, of course, hey, you might even talk to him on the phone a few times, so he starts falling for you. Now, you're mentally female, maybe you don't know he's gay, so he's a guy, yeah? You start falling for him. Eventually one of you will make a move, and then it'll have to come out - You're mentally female, you fully intend that lord willing and the creek don't rise, you'll go on hormones and ultimately have reassignment surgery someday. So you've then been... Lying to this guy. So does this situation strike you as being as somehow unforgivable on the part of the transgendered person as if they went with their real gender and what they intend to be someday?

Food for thought. (Yeah, don't get me started on this subject, I won't ever shut up. XD )

[Kuea]

hmm... well if say there was a guy who kept saying he was a girl, and you got to be real close to this person, to the poitn where you want a relationship, but then they reveal they are a guy, what you liked about this person wasn't really gender since all you've ever seen was text from them, it was their personality, enjoying spending teh time on computer with em

of course after you find out they are the opposite sex, you may not want a relationship with them, but still want to be with them. After all, they told you the truth instead of just kept on goiong like they are playign a game.

so really, I wouldn't still wanna relationship, but I'd still love to be around em o:

though there is another small scenario to what you said here, instead of the otehr person just coming out, you yourself could have doubts about their sex, and think that most of what they told you is lies, so after badgering them for a bit, you then find out they are the opposite sex, at a point like that, even if you really like them, you are still suspicious of most of what they do... so in the end it would prolly just not even work out being friends http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[rvnscarlet]

This has actually happened to me, altho I wasn't interested in him/her in a sexual way. I, and the rest of the forum thought that this person was a woman, young twenties and one person actually had a thing for her. After a couple of years or more of this the person admitted to the entire forum that she was in fact a he. Even tho I had become close with this person I had a really hard time with it. Not because of the transexual thing but because of the lies and deceite. I wasn't the only one that felt that way and eventually the person dissapeared.

The end.