GT: Bows Vs. Rifles

[zanotam]

Which are better for GT's do you think?

[Rizen]

I believe there was a very long discussion in my ranger topic in my sig. Browse around a bit and you may find a few interesting comments from both sides.

[Syanaide]

Comparison in 9*'s from psupedia:
Numbers in order are stats: PP -> ATP -> ATA

Bow-
Ulteri Yohmei A -- -- 1238 595 300

Phantom GRM A -- 1263 541 188

Bow seems to be superior in every way, no? Around 30 PP less, 50 ATP higher, and a whole lot more accurate.

[Mio]

also a whole lot slower

[Reiichi]

Rifles shoot faster. If you want to apply SE like a ranger should then go rifle. Rifles allow more mobility with stop and go movement without sacrificing slow startup firing speed. Rifles regen faster. Phantom rifles can be paired with the phantom line for additional damage.

Bows have more ata and can bypass the defense on monsters. Bows also have higher elemental damage mods.

Answer: Phantom Set.

[imfanboy]

And also, bows ignore armor - for a guntecher, that's pretty important because it means that with my Alteric (6) I'm doing barely less than several fortegunner buddies who have phantomline/phantom combos.

AND bow bullets level up easily 3x faster - maybe even more. Getting my fire bow bullet to 21 was the work of a weekend - for my gunner buddies, getting a fire bullet up to 21 is the work of WEEKS. <_< Since 21+ is the magic number for Status Effect 4, that makes getting guns up that high vitally important for burning the big guys, shocking them, freezing them, virusing them....

[Ledin]

BOW: Higher ATA, higher elemental damage, ignores defense (will be even more useful in S2 missions; also means you can shoot De Ragan anywhere except tail and do full damage), PA levels much faster.

RIFLE: Faster firing rate (equates faster SE application -- which would be the main reason why you would use a stationary weapon as a Guntecher anyway), bigger range.
Also keep in mind that there will be a Death Shot bullet for rifles (which seems to be a lot more useful than the ultimate bow bullet). But you'd probably use 6* Yohmei rifles to spam that one anyway.

Phantom Set however is not the best choice for Guntechers. You lose out on the head slot which you can use to boost your Resta, Phantom Line has horrible defensive stats by itself, and Alteric +10 is way better than a Phantom even with the bonus from the set -- not to mention Hanmateric, once A-grinder boards are released.

Both have advantages, as the posters before me pointed out. In the end it's a matter of personal opinion and style.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ledin on 2007-01-30 17:41 ]</font>

[CelestialBlade]

Bows aren't a whole lot slower if you get the timing right. I don't think you can really pass up the obscene range and armor penetration you get with those.

[Randomness]

Yeah, there is a sweet spot on bows where they get a decent fire rate, and the armor piercing, high %, high acc, are all really nice. I suppose in the end you're probably best off with both, depending on the situation.

[Kimil]

Just buy both!

[Alisha]

im thinking of making a beast guntecher... >.> so wouldnt bows be more adventagous for beasts and humans? to help shore up the ata diffciency. also this could be an offline thing but bows appear to have a more friendly hit box in fps mode. ive seen shots soar under onma's wing and still register a hit.

[Soukosa]

Bows are slower at firing (granted, it's not by much) but their higher ATP and DFP ignoring damage probably balances that out. So the higher ATA will be useful for lower ATA races if you don't mind the slower rate at which you'd be applying statuses.

As for the targetting, from what little I've used rifles, they seem to be as lenient as bows. They both seem to hit the closest target within the main circle. I should probably go double check this though >.>

Edit: Checked it out and they do seem to be same in terms of targetting in first person view.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sounomi on 2007-01-31 01:01 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Apparently higher ATA increases the frequency of hits that deal your SE, so bows might break even with rifles on SE application rate.

[Kuya]

Hey panzer, where'd you get the info on ATA affecting SE? If that IS the case - I might switch classes to use bow for a bit to see what I can see http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[panzer_unit]

It's just a rumor floating around the Protranser guide thread. I don't know how much faith to put into it, I'm the sort that considers anything not explicit or blindingly obvious (in this game) to be superstition. My objection isn't any more scientific than the theory I'm objecting to, so maybe it's worth someone looking at.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-31 13:38, Kuya wrote:
Hey panzer, where'd you get the info on ATA affecting SE? If that IS the case - I might switch classes to use bow for a bit to see what I can see http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



This comes from the ProTranser thread. ForteGunners (the kings of ATA) seem to apply status with ranged weapons (as opposed to traps) to creatures long suspected to be immune to status.

[Reiichi]

I'd like to see an in depth study on ATA and SE before rumors start getting spread as facts

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-31 14:27, Reiichi wrote:
I'd like to see an in depth study on ATA and SE before rumors start getting spread as facts



Any time you are ready to start conducting one http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif As a Beast ForteFighter my options are....limited

[zanotam]

Also how do crossbows and cards compare? i plan on using both but i'm nto sure which to lvl up, i'm usign cards right now though because i almost laugh every time i use them.

[Retsuya]

Bullet LV21 of bow has more range than the riffle but comparing LV19 the riffle had more range
so once you get to SE lv4 bullet with bows, its ingnore opponents dtp, high ata, SE lV4, high weapon accuracy.
however riffles have more damage but since were Guntecher we love to use buff, debuff and SEs.

I preffer Cards because they can fallow your opponent from a distance. crossbows are good as a compact bow.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Retsuya on 2007-02-01 08:20 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Retsuya on 2007-02-01 10:21 ]</font>

[Ledin]

On 2007-02-01 08:19, Retsuya wrote:
Bullet LV21 of bow has more range than the riffle but comparing LV19 the riffle had more range
so once you get to lv4 bullet with bows, its ingnore opponents dtp, high ata, SE lV4, high weapon accuracy.
however riffles have more damage but since were Guntecher we love to use buff, debuff and SEs.
This is not correct. As far as I know, neither bow nor rifle range increases by level; rifle has definitely the edge on bow as far as range goes.

[SolomonGrundy]

[quote]On 2007-02-01 08:54, Ledin wrote:
[
This is not correct. As far as I know, neither bow nor rifle range increases by level; rifle has definitely the edge on bow as far as range goes.

[/quote}

I hate to correct a correction, but some guns have range changes at 11, and 21.
Here is the wiki:
http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Bullets

Rifle 21+ = 25 meters (supposedly DOWN from 26, though this may be a typo)

Longbow 21+ = 26 meters (UP from 25 at 11+)

[Ledin]

Hm, I stand corrected then. I'll borrow a Phantom from my Fortegunner buddy when he's online and compare it directly.

[Dymalos]

Here is a copy n' paste of my analysis of the Phantom Set from the Bullseye (Ranger Thread) since it focused on this very same question:

I'm going to lay out the Stats for you guys on the Phantom/Phantomline Set and compare it with the Ulteri so that we can know where things stand. One thing many of you don't know about set bonuses is that they apply a 25% boost to the Base Att and Acc of the weapon, meaning that your own ATP or Acc and any Grinding never enters into the equation.

Disclaimer:
This is purely a Debate for Guntechers, seeing as how a Fortegunner will use the Rifle regardless and use it well.

ATP and Acc from Male Cast Guntecher 70/10
Damage Bonus from Fire, Earth and Dark lvl 30

Phantom Set:
Base Atp: 533
Base Att: 541
Combined: 1074
w/Elemnt: 2113 (For Rifles: x1.60 and x1.23)
SetBonus: 2248 (Here is where I add 25% of 541)

Base Ata: 435
Base Acc: 188
Combined: 623
w/Penalty: 467 (For Rifles: x0.75)
SetBonus: 514 (Here is where I add 25% of 188)

Ulteri:
Base Atp: 533
Base Att: 595
Combined: 1123
w/Elemnt: 2335 (For Longbows: x1.60 and x1.30)

Base Ata: 435
Base Acc: 300
Combined: 735
w/Penalty: 529 (For Longbows: x0.72)

As you can see while this set bonus certainly does shake things up, it by no means leaves the Rifle the undisputed champion.

Rifles have a much quicker initial shot and a slightly faster rate of fire overall. But this set bonus makes you forgo the Body Slot which means no Mega / Rainbow.

Longbows still ignore Defense, which as we get into S2 missions is going to start being a more lucrative bonus. But the delay on the initial shot is admittedly a pain.

[Corran1]

rifles dont shoot slightly faster then bows, they shoot way way faster then bows. Im a fortegunner, and my friend is a transer, so ive spent lots of time shooting my rifle next to someone who is shooting a bow. Where bows really shine, is they seem to be better at giving sub boss type enemys staus effects. (and my deathmakers do way more damage then either at the moment, w/ = lvl bullets)

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-02-01 22:47, Corran1 wrote:
rifles dont shoot slightly faster then bows, they shoot way way faster then bows. Im a fortegunner, and my friend is a transer, so ive spent lots of time shooting my rifle next to someone who is shooting a bow. Where bows really shine, is they seem to be better at giving sub boss type enemys staus effects. (and my deathmakers do way more damage then either at the moment, w/ = lvl bullets)



"I'm not a fortegunner, but I play (with)one on TV"

lol.

you can't compare fGs and PTs....the ATA/ATP are just..insanely different.

[Criss]

On 2007-02-01 22:47, Corran1 wrote:
rifles dont shoot slightly faster then bows, they shoot way way faster then bows.


On 2007-02-01 23:26, SolomonGrundy wrote:
you can't compare fGs and PTs....the ATA/ATP are just..insanely different.

I believe he was referring to the two weapons' firing speed, which is totally unrelated to the ATP/ATA of either class.

[Armok]

Has not Phantom got 550 atp or is that just for fortegunners?

As for the rifle vs Bow debate its simple.

If you plan to swop from Fortegunner to Guntecher often then level up your rifle. They pretty similar and both classes can use so therefore your saving 6 pa spots not getting the bow pas.

If you plan to stay Guntecher perminatly I would go for Bows since you get S rank ones and they much alike as a long range take out weopon.

If you plan to go Fortegunner you have to go Rifles so hard luck.

Main drawback of the rifle is its ultra slow to lvl up (hopefully less so with patch but dout it). Main advantage is its speed which means vs nasty monsters you can switch on your infection rifle and cause that then your fire rifle and burn the enemy and quickly drain away a big monsters life.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Armok on 2007-02-02 02:30 ]</font>

[Sitka]

Everyone says that rifles are slow to level up and I don't see that. I have level 30 bullets on dark, fire, ice, ground, plasma and am on 20 for light currently.

Go to the area with the opposite element (i.e. LL to level up light bullets, agata to level up dark bullets), choose an appropriate level (B or A rank runs seem to work well for me) and make some runs with multiple rifles. This works well for me, I pick up nice drops, I get meseta, mission points, experience and I get to see "level up" notices all day long.

As for the rifle versus bow, I choose rifle for my fortegunner as that by far works best for him along with dualies and launchers in appropriate areas. I'm still not really happy with shotgun or laser yet, but I am leveling them to give them a chance. I'm sticking with the four-slot Sori-senba over the Phantom Line to get the extra technique protection - I think the trade off is well worth it.

On my Guntecher, I go bows and crossbows and love them on her. There are sweet spots with the bow where the firing rate is very fast and times where it is very slow - have to play with it a bit more to find those sweet spots.

Both ranged characters are casts and I very much enjoy playing both of them. I also like my beast hunter and newman force. The force with the tech boosts is a true killer, but I play her exclusively solo as I hate being "the support" person and prefer killing on a mass scale.

So, for the Guntecher, I definitely prefer the bows and am anxious to get her into an s-rank one eventually.

[Syanaide]

Unfortunately, we don't get S rank bows as Guntechers.

[Sitka]

On 2007-02-05 16:43, Syanaide wrote:
Unfortunately, we don't get S rank bows as Guntechers.



bah - forgot when I was writing. We get the s-rank dualies though, so meh.

[Corran1]

One thing I dont have experiance with is how much bows attract the enemys attention (aggro). By far, the rifle gets stuff to attack me faster then any other gun I have. Whats the comparison between rifles and bows?

[imfanboy]

Really (and maybe this is just because I tend to only use my bow against big enemies) it doesn't draw as much aggro.

The slightly slower shots seem to give more time for the aggro to go back on to the hunter-types.

[Jey]

I don't see anything but a cast Fortetecher being able to equip an S-rank Bow ._.' Well, GTs don't get S-rank Rifles either, soooo.

I plan on levelling both rifle and bow bullets. Fire/Dark for Rifle for quick application of the SE4s that matter, and Ice/Thunder/Light/Earth for Bow for elemental damage purposes.

Rifle is so slow though... It's like levelling Barta except you're forced to hit only single targets (albeit it's a lot faster "cast"..._) 79360 hits to get from lv1 to lv30, Mein Gott, bow is only 19248.

[ACH]

On 2007-02-07 02:48, Jey wrote:
79360 hits to get from lv1 to lv30, Mein Gott, bow is only 19248.

O_O

I just started a Guntecher after playing as a PT for quite a bit and I chose Rifles over Longbows just for a bit of variation. Longbows really does seem superior in every way which is sort of, sad.. That a Force weapon is a better ranged weapon than the Rangers signature weapon.

[-_Tao_-]

I will take my +10 Alteric and all my lvl 4 arrows any day over a riffle. But thats just me.

Look whos laughing now.

[Schubalts]

Well, rifles have a higher PP regeneration rate, so take that into account, too. Not that I use rifles, but both have advantages and disadvantages.

[Soukosa]

Rifles fire off more quickly so you'd likely burn through PP faster, thus they probably gave rifles the better PP regen to make up for that.

[RandomTask]

In over 500 hours of online play, I've never once seen someone with a bow out damage me using a rifle.