HUcaseals who use guns... [Archive]

KojiroAK

Feb 5, 2007, 06:55 AM

On 2007-02-04 22:00, robinhood wrote:
What's the point of making a HUcaseal who is going to almost always be using mechguns or handguns?

Why not make a RAcast or RAcaseal? They only have less EVP and a bit less ATP, but far more HP, DFP, and ATA.

I don't understand.

Because Mechgun belongs to the strongest weapons in the game.
I use Combats(35 Hit%) with my HUmar and every time I tried an other weapon I just disliked it.
If I can kill an enemy(Bartle) with a N,H combo(Combat) and stay on a range he can't hit me, why should i use a weapon I need a N,H,N combo(Demolition Comet) and be in hit range of an enemy?

Also swords partisans i don't like, the most time you only get 3 or 4 enemies on a line you can hit them in one strike, you move into the mob and deliver the enemies possibilities to surround you.

So I get faster rid of a mob of 4 enemies with a Mechgun then with a Sword or a Partisan and take less damage.

Thats the reason why also HUnter uses Mechguns.

[ This Message was edited by: KojiroAK on 2007-02-05 03:57 ]

Saffran

Feb 5, 2007, 03:17 PM

>So I get faster rid of a mob of 4 enemies with a Mechgun
>then with a Sword or a Partisan and take less damage.

What kind of level are you doing? VH forest?
In ruins, standing in front of 4 ennemies with a mech means death.
Try swinging a Red Sword with N,H then E.

Obscenity

Feb 5, 2007, 03:23 PM

I have to agree with the OP. If I want to use guns, I'll change characters and use my Ranger. The only time I use guns with a Hunter is for Falz's third form.

Edit: Or to shoot traps/enemies up in the air.

[ This Message was edited by: Obscenity on 2007-02-05 12:25 ]

robinhood

Feb 5, 2007, 03:47 PM

On 2007-02-05 12:17, Saffran wrote:
Try swinging a Red Sword with N,H then E.

What does N, H, E mean?

And also, a lot of you are saying because Mechguns with good percentages are really good. But my question is if you're going to be an android that uses mechs, why not be a RAcast or RAcaseal? Almost every stat is either comparable or far better, unlike HUcaseal's somewhat lacking stats.

[ This Message was edited by: robinhood on 2007-02-05 12:59 ]

KojiroAK

Feb 5, 2007, 04:31 PM

On 2007-02-05 12:17, Saffran wrote:
What kind of level are you doing? VH forest?

Ultimate Forrest. Bartle Hidelt needs Normal,Hard,Normal(one hit)

On 2007-02-05 12:17, Saffran wrote:
In ruins, standing in front of 4 ennemies with a mech means death.

Off course if you go in Sword range.

Ult Ruins, Combats, enemy by enemy and if they move to near, just move a little away and take the next out.
Then you have less problems.

On 2007-02-05 12:17, Saffran wrote:Try swinging a Red Sword with N,H then E.

Oh yeah, that's useful against a Delsaber that blocks and on the time you finished your combo he just slashes you down.
Also that till you are finished the Combo the rest of the enemies already surrounded you and some of them already attacks you, so you can't even bring the full combo.

CM_vs_HP

Feb 6, 2007, 06:23 AM

On 2007-02-05 12:17, Saffran wrote:Try swinging a Red Sword with N,H then E.

Oh yeah, that's useful against a Delsaber that blocks and on the time you finished your combo he just slashes you down.
Also that till you are finished the Combo the rest of the enemies already surrounded you and some of them already attacks you, so you can't even bring the full combo.

[/quote]

Hunter android doesnt have this problem because of ice trap. killing them with a sword or switching for a single target weapon if he is alone isnt a big deal.

you can stunt them easily by delaying your attack with any type of weapon, android or not.

A ranger with some rather good mech, is already overkill , whats the point with a HUnter going over this.

But i understand after checking your profile that you have 1 character and its a HUmar.
Unfortunately , this class cannot be perfectly effective without some mechgun i agree

Maybe on your next character , you will prefer playing the class for his specialty rather than just using whats powerful on it.

KojiroAK

Feb 6, 2007, 08:16 AM

On 2007-02-06 03:23, CM_vs_HP wrote:
Maybe on your next character , you will prefer playing the class for his specialty rather than just using whats powerful on it.

Hm, I could use on my HUcast (Lv.105 +, not played often yet) a Blade weapon and going into enemies hit range, or I use my Combats stay out of their range and killing them faster because I am able to bring my benefit in ATP better to the enemy.

Now, bet what's my decision?

If i would see a real improvement from blade weapons towards guns, then i would use them, but I still didn't found one.

Maybe online it's different, but solo whether swords nor partisans deliver a real advantage towards my Combats.

And to use Traps makes it even slower, set trap, launch trap, change weapon, hit enemies (and with a little luck i maybe get 5 in a swing, but mostly you get 3 or 4, because the other already made a turn around while you did set the trap and are already on a position that makes it hard up to impossible to get all of them in one swing), while I with my combats already have wiped out the first and be already on the second.

Sega overpowered the Mechguns, and why shouldn't I use that?
Just because blade weapons-> hunter weapons?
And weaken my Hunters anymore towards the ranger?

CM_vs_HP

Feb 6, 2007, 08:31 AM

On 2007-02-06 05:16, KojiroAK wrote:

On 2007-02-06 03:23, CM_vs_HP wrote:
Maybe on your next character , you will prefer playing the class for his specialty rather than just using whats powerful on it.

Hm, I could use on my HUcast (Lv.105 +, not played often yet) a Blade weapon and going into enemies hit range, or I use my Combats stay out of their range and killing them faster because I am able to bring my benefit in ATP better to the enemy.

Now, bet what's my decision?

If i would see a real improvement from blade weapons towards guns, then i would use them, but I still didn't found one.

Maybe online it's different, but solo whether swords nor partisans deliver a real advantage towards my Combats.

And to use Traps makes it even slower, set trap, launch trap, change weapon, hit enemies (and with a little luck i maybe get 5 in a swing, but mostly you get 3 or 4, because the other already made a turn around while you did set the trap and are already on a position that makes it hard up to impossible to get all of them in one swing), while I with my combats already have wiped out the first and be already on the second.

Sega overpowered the Mechguns, and why shouldn't I use that?
Just because blade weapons-> hunter weapons?
And weaken my Hunters anymore towards the ranger?

1.dagger = Hucaseal lol any other hunter using them will fail unfortunately.
nothing beat a twin weapon, thats why twin blaze was my main wep combined with DoB for mass.

2.if you cant set trap properly you fail as a droid.
trap are completely useless in lower mode than ultimate(except for cmode or if your character is at is early level) in ultimate the time it takes for a trap to destroy is halved + the range of its effect is doubled.

3.nothing in what i say is about improvment, its about playing differently depending on wich class your using instead of doing the same boring repetitive gameplay with all class(but i suppose some people like that)

This HUcaseal i used was stronger than any RAnger/HUnter and i didnt used any mech...

[ This Message was edited by: CM_vs_HP on 2007-02-06 07:56 ]

BlueKnight

Feb 6, 2007, 11:30 AM

I use handguns only if I need to. I like to use the Black King bar. Man she moves fast whith that. I like to use the Berdysh too. That is a cool wepon.
My HUcaseal is lv 132.

[ This Message was edited by: BlueKnight on 2007-02-06 10:25 ]

Saffran

Feb 6, 2007, 11:57 AM

NHE -> Normal attack, Hard attack, Extra attack.

As far as Red Sword and Delsabers go, I can either use a freeze trap or even ignore the traps altogether. The delay of the Hard attack, followed by the delay of the Extra attack, makes it sure that they aren't invincible anymore when you swing the last time. Either they evade (they make the evade motion sereal times so you have the time to escape) or they get hit -> paralysed.
You wouldn't believe how often the unreduced Seize hits - I can pull it off on almost any mob. The only ones I'm trying this on are packs of Bringers. But if a Bringer is following behind a pack of claws or Arlans, I will do a NHE and -most of the time- Seize works. If not, well, no big deal. Use a trap and a dimate. I do tend to use a freeze trap when Bringers are around anyway.

Mewone

Feb 6, 2007, 12:57 PM

I've never cared about style or what is "supposed" to be used by a class. The only goal I have ever had is to be the most unstoppable force I can possibly be. I use what works.

Hrigg

Feb 6, 2007, 02:14 PM

On 2007-02-06 09:57, Mewone wrote:
I've never cared about style or what is "supposed" to be used by a class. The only goal I have ever had is to be the most unstoppable force I can possibly be. I use what works.

Exactly.

It shouldn't make a difference if you are a hunter using mechguns.

Is there some sort of rule against it?

If you're soloing, it's a lot smarter to shoot some enemies from a distance than run up and get surrounded.

Of course, if you're playing with a good team that includes a ranger you should be using the melee weapons while they deal damage on enemies approaching you.

BlueKnight

Feb 6, 2007, 02:18 PM

I look for the stile of weapons and the color. I like my weapons/ armor. and mag look the same on my character. I like to mach. I don't care if it is not the strongest I jest likes the looks of some weapons. That is what I like.

Out_Kast

Feb 6, 2007, 02:38 PM

Think; you're pretty much dead. You're not going to run straight in there and die, are you?
No. You'd stay back and shoot http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif That way, at least you could get your back against a wall (which is what I tend to do)

BlueKnight

Feb 6, 2007, 02:44 PM

Try to do a 2 hit combo and run or cercal around then. That worked for me. Instead of standing and shooting.

CellarDoor

Feb 6, 2007, 03:07 PM

Mechs on a hunter are riduculously overpowered. They can be great for soloing certain enemies but can also cause frustrating damage cancellation in team play.

With that said, I try to limit my mech usage on my HUcast. I do, however, have a 40% hit Arrest Raygun which I use religiously http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif.

Saligun

Feb 6, 2007, 03:51 PM

I used guns all the time with my HUcaseal and got repeately hounded by people who thought i should not be useing guns with her at all and i would tell them HEY i don't tell you how to play your characters SO don't tell me what weapons i should be useing! Just because you think you know more then someone else doesn't mean other people want to hear it.If i'm paying the 8.95 extra a month to play then i can use any weapon i want with MY character,beside if hunter shouldn't be useing guns then they should not have given the hunter any gun options...

[ This Message was edited by: Saligun on 2007-02-06 12:52 ]

Yurnero

Feb 6, 2007, 04:04 PM

Well said, Saligun.

I have a HUcaseal and even though she may not be level 100 and such, she still benefits from using her M&A 60 Vise (yes, that's the best mechgun i have, and no %s either >_>) in tough situations. Although I prefer my Diska of Liberator a lot more than any other weapon, the M&A 60 Vise is also fun to play around with when I'm bored.

Go to the forest, shoot some Boomas, watch them die and laugh http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif That's a barrel full of fun right there xD

Mewone

Feb 6, 2007, 05:14 PM

On 2007-02-06 12:07, CellarDoor wrote:
Mechs on a hunter are riduculously overpowered. They can be great for soloing certain enemies but can also cause frustrating damage cancellation in team play.

With that said, I try to limit my mech usage on my HUcast. I do, however, have a 40% hit Arrest Raygun which I use religiously http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif.

If my Hunters are damage cancelling anyone ever, I want to know about it. Teammates only get in my way. >_>

On 2007-02-06 12:51, Saligun wrote:
I used guns all the time with my HUcaseal and got repeately hounded by people who thought i should not be useing guns with her at all and i would tell them HEY i don't tell you how to play your characters SO don't tell me what weapons i should be useing! Just because you think you know more then someone else doesn't mean other people want to hear it.If i'm paying the 8.95 extra a month to play then i can use any weapon i want with MY character,beside if hunter shouldn't be useing guns then they should not have given the hunter any gun options...

[ This Message was edited by: Saligun on 2007-02-06 12:52 ]

I agree. People who tell me I shouldn't use Mechguns on my Hunters can go cry about their weakness somewhere else. If they really want to have something to complain about, they can talk to Mr. Vjaya.

Also lol @ paying $8.95 a month, etc.

robinhood

Feb 6, 2007, 09:35 PM

No one has really answered my question.

My question isn't "should HUcaseals use mechguns?"

My question is...if you're going to make a HUcaseal who primarily uses guns anyway, why not make a RAnger for the superior stats?

Diasuke-san

Feb 6, 2007, 11:54 PM

yes they should. Hucaseals are ment to be like a hybrid between ranger and hunter. They have high atp and ata for a reason. Combine the two and you are invincable with a mechgun. I should know i used a hucaseal for that very purpose. Hucaseal+mechgun=prolly one of the best combinations possible.

Saffran

Feb 7, 2007, 03:47 AM

Diasuke, no, just no. Hucaseal are good with guns and mechs, but too weak to really do ueber damage. They need to get Shifta and Zalure if they want to do decent damage. Hucasts can do with mechs, under the same conditions. Because if you do a full mech combo, you have 1 ennemy less, but the others are then just nearby while you're stuck after the 3rd animation. Ant that's the aprt where it goes "hey you're doing too little damage, I don't fall over, suckers!" and then the group multihit you, you can't do a thing except using a trap and hoping it explodes soon enough, because if they do that 3 times you're dead. Even more so when you have a wall in your back! (WORST. STRATEGY. EVER) I've had a pack of claws kill me.... claws!!! 6 claws recoiling all from a fire trap, hitting me at the exact same time. But well, 2 delsabers can kill me too if they do that. Or 2 Zoas jumping at me.
Mechguns are great when you've frozen-paralized a big ennemy and want it dead asap, ignoring all others. Like, Bringers or Zoas or Delbiters or Ill Gills (and even then - Ill Gills have so much DFP that a soloing Hucast will have trouble killing them in one go, if not in 2). But not for general purposes, really. A Hu has far better weapons for that.
Now please keep in ming that I'm talking about Online Ult, not offline.

As for the original poster:
Because Rangers are limited in other areas. It's not so bad with episode 4, with ueber close combat weapons useable by non-HUs (Excalibur, Vivianne, Government Parasol, Asteron Belt...)
but on GC, you're basically only going to use guns, ever. Like Frozen Shooter-Spread Needle-Srank Needle- Yasminkov 9000M or so. The offline game is for pansies but face it: you don't want to solo PW4 with a Charge Gungnir or a Stag Cutlery.
Now a Hucaseal... You can and probably will carry a handgun, a pair of mechs, a twin sword, a slicer, a Sword or Partisan (or both), blades... you get my drift?

[ This Message was edited by: Saffran on 2007-02-07 00:54 ]

Mewone

Feb 7, 2007, 05:25 AM

From an Episode I&II perspective:

Mechguns can be used to target multiple enemies, if you have the sheer power to do so. The secret lies in weakening enemies first and mowing them down from the right angle (like a Slicer), or simply obliterating two of them in one combo. The key to success lies in switching your weapons often for the right situations, however, not simply keeping one weapon equipped and expecting it to do everything; this goes for every class. And for heaven's sake, move. Evade. A simple slugging match is no way to go at the enemies.

On my HUcaseal, I carry the same weapon setup as on my HUcast (see site for it; har har advertisement), and while she isn't yet (and won't ever be) the same unstoppable killing force my HUcast is due to his absurd ATP, she can get the job done very nicely. Mechguns and a Twin/Double Saber is redundant, as Mechguns fill the slot for a single-targetting weapon, aside from the utility Handgun you may opt to carry. Daggers on top of these is just asking for a slower weapon-switching rate. As a rule of thumb, try not to carry so many weapons that it gives your quick menu a scroll bar. A maximum of five weapons is what I recommend. Having more than that on you -aside from ones you may pick up- is absurd.

EDIT: I should probably mention that HUcast does have very good solo potential, if it has the right gear. It can supply its own Shifta with S-Red's Blades, and its own Zalure for bosses/tough enemies with an S-Rank.

----------

Now, to (try to) answer your question, robinhood: RAcast practically makes a better HUcaseal than HUcaseal does, in terms of stats. It's got little to do with the use (or lack thereof) of Mechguns and Handguns in particular, as every class can use them. Personally, I just like the HUcaseal better for looks and the early game experience, not to mention that I already have two Rangers, and they don't seem much different. Looking at it from a statistical perspective, it comes down to HUcaseal being able to use Vjaya, for me. Though if you don't feel like hunting the Meseta -and/or didn't have much to start with- that's a no-go, and you may as well pick a RA, if it's pure stats you're after.

Was that what you were looking for?

[ This Message was edited by: Mewone on 2007-02-07 02:30 ]

CM_vs_HP

Feb 7, 2007, 06:38 AM

I played like this for a lot of time... i was using mechgun with all my characters...
but after a while i got bored... i was too strong for the game and couldnt get any challenge from it.

instead, i decided to downgrade myself to the standard point of the class and so giving myself a new challenge and enjoying this game 1 more time.

Theres so many aspect of this game to be explored, so many ways to handle all of the ennemys and areas perfectly without having to rely on mechgun.

im not saying how you guys should play...i just say that sometime, its better to try a different style of play when changing character class.

This game is old, nothing new will come out of it
but YOU can add something new to it by changing your playing style and still achieving perfection.

[ This Message was edited by: CM_vs_HP on 2007-02-07 08:03 ]

Saffran

Feb 7, 2007, 07:53 AM

Trunkated for easier answering.

On 2007-02-07 02:25, Mewone wrote:

1) simply obliterating two of them in one combo.
2) And for heaven's sake, move. Evade.
3)Mechguns and a Twin/Double Saber is redundant,
4)as Mechguns fill the slot for a single-targetting weapon,
5)Daggers on top of these is just asking for a slower weapon-switching rate.
6)As a rule of thumb, try not to carry so many weapons that it gives your quick menu a scroll bar. A maximum of five weapons is what I recommend. Having more than that on you -aside from ones you may pick up- is absurd.
7)EDIT: I should probably mention that HUcast does have very good solo potential, if it has the right gear. It can supply its own Shifta with S-Red's Blades, and its own Zalure for bosses/tough enemies with an S-Rank.

1)This is simply not realistic.
2) That's the point! When you're stuck in your mechgun animation, you don't move and you don't evade , and you're stuck for quite some time...
3)Oh please. You can't even DAMAGE Ill Gills with a mechgun. (at 1301 ATP I do 11 per hit, when I happen to hit...)
4)They fill the slot for frozen Red Sinows and Dark Falz. And Gal Gryphon and Olga Flow, maybe.
5 and 6)Who cares? Just don't switch weapons when 3 Meris are spitting at you. I've seen Hucasts with 16 weapons in their inventory - all specific to one situation.
7)And so can any character. Hucasts will need a Jellen Srank too though - Hucaseal can evade or kill from afar like the RAs.

Mewone

Feb 7, 2007, 03:47 PM

On 2007-02-07 04:53, Saffran wrote:
Trunkated for easier answering.

1)This is simply not realistic.
2) That's the point! When you're stuck in your mechgun animation, you don't move and you don't evade , and you're stuck for quite some time...
3)Oh please. You can't even DAMAGE Ill Gills with a mechgun. (at 1301 ATP I do 11 per hit, when I happen to hit...)
4)They fill the slot for frozen Red Sinows and Dark Falz. And Gal Gryphon and Olga Flow, maybe.
5 and 6)Who cares? Just don't switch weapons when 3 Meris are spitting at you. I've seen Hucasts with 16 weapons in their inventory - all specific to one situation.
7)And so can any character. Hucasts will need a Jellen Srank too though - Hucaseal can evade or kill from afar like the RAs.

1. I do it all the time. It's quite realistic in areas such as Caves. Don't believe me? Play with me -or any other strong HUcast- or calculate the damage.
2. Position yourself correctly in the first place, and it won't happen. You should have just enough time to move and fire by the time enemies can get to you. Or -heaven forbid- traps from your droid?
3. Zalure S-Rank; if you don't have one, not my problem.
4. And any anything else that need be taken down in around little time. Baranz, Morfos, Delbiters, etc., not to mention enemies spread too thin for Slicers or Partisans.
5 & 6. I care, because I prefer to be efficient. In case you hadn't noticed, you can switch weapons while moving, and can freeze Meris anyway. Also, searching an absurd inventory of sixteen weapons when I can kill faster with the few that I use is idiotic.
7. Jellen on an S-Rank is senseless when you kill enemies before they can hit you. Not to mention that androids have traps. Both can use the same guns, and kill from the same range.

Please know exactly what you're talking about before you spout off this kind of garbage. You're not fooling me.