PDA

View Full Version : So, about pre-PSO phantasy stars...



Zorafim
Feb 14, 2007, 12:42 AM
I've played through PSI and PSIV, half of PSII, and got to the first town of PSIII before getting mauled by a pack of rappies (true story). Would it be worthwhile for be to put up with the horrors of old RPG game mechanics to play through the rest of the PSs? If so, does anyone know of a way to releave some of the stress of doing so? I'm mainly looking at the lack of description of spells and equipment, as well as the lack of direction (take my dieing before reaching the first town).

Obscenity
Feb 14, 2007, 12:45 AM
http://www.phantasy-star.net

Maps help a lot, especially in PSI, where the annoying traps in the dungeons make you fall through the floors, and in PS2 and 3, where the characters walk slower than death.

Mostly, old-school RPGs are all about patience. Endlessly killing enemies to level up before a boss or save up enough for new weapons and armor.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Obscenity on 2007-02-13 21:47 ]</font>

Sinue_v2
Feb 14, 2007, 12:49 AM
www.Phantasy-Star.net has some decent walkthroughs for the games, as well as information on techniques, magic, arms, and equiptment. I haven't gotten too much finished on the PSIV, PSIII side of the original games yet - but most of the PSII/PSI information (including maps, stats, beastiary, bios, trivia, ect) is up on the Wiki if you care to look. No complete walk-through at this point however.

Be careful - since the games are older, and since it's an information database, there's a lot of spoilers at these two sites. Proceed at your own risk.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-02-13 21:52 ]</font>

HUnewearl_Meira
Feb 14, 2007, 01:12 AM
Granted, PSII and PSIII could've been articulated better, but Phantasy Star II has (in my personal opinion), the best plot of the series, that'll still raise the hair on the back of your neck ten years later, while Phantasy Star III has both the best and worst of the entire series (best music AND worst music, best graphics AND worst animation, etc). Perhaps I'm biased, but I submit that they're both worth playing through to the end.

Obscenity
Feb 14, 2007, 01:16 AM
I love all of them, although the first and fourth are my favorites. I think PSIII is criminally underrated, though.

Sinue_v2
Feb 14, 2007, 02:11 AM
but Phantasy Star II has (in my personal opinion), the best plot of the series, that'll still raise the hair on the back of your neck ten years later

That game is in desperate need a true next-generation upgrade with fully fleshed out dialouge, 3D graphics, CGI cutscenes, orchetrated music... and a Final Fantasy sized budget and development staff. I'd love to see that for the whole series actually.. but PSII in particular because it has such a strong plot to build from.

Seriously - go read the PSII Manga over at Ill-Intent (http://www.ill-intent.com/PS2main.htm). Just the first few chapters of that are far better (imo) than PSU's entire plotline.

Speaking of which, any word from Andrew on weither or not he'll complete the Manga? I know he went commecial with his own project awhile back, but I also hear he's still wanting to work on PSII when he gets the time.

Obscenity
Feb 14, 2007, 02:24 AM
On 2007-02-13 23:11, Sinue_v2 wrote:

That game is in desperate need a true next-generation upgrade with fully fleshed out dialouge, 3D graphics, CGI cutscenes, orchetrated music...



You mean like the Sega Ages: Phantasy Star Trilogy for the PS2 that was cancelled for the US?

HUnewearl_Meira
Feb 14, 2007, 02:28 AM
He means beyond that. Personally, I agree.

On the other hand, I believe it was DezoPenguin (though it may've been Joel Fagin) that once said that Phantasy Star III is in the most desperate need of a makeover. Phantasy Star III done with today's technology would be a very interesting journey, considering how much further we could take its "Generations" system.

Sinue_v2
Feb 14, 2007, 02:34 AM
You mean like the Sega Ages: Phantasy Star Trilogy for the PS2 that was cancelled for the US?

No. Actually I already have Gen 1 & 2 (JP import). While they're good attempts at budget remakes, I'm talking of a remake that it would put it on the scale of contemporary next-gen JRPG's like Final Fantasy XIII or Enchanted Arms.

Agreed, PSIII technically is in the most desperate need of a makeover since what they were trying to accomplish at the time was limited by the technology and the scope of design - though I would rather see a remake of II if they won't do it for the entire series. Even if not just for what it could do for the series - but for what it could do for the JRPG genre as a whole. I think Skies of Arcadia was a great shot in the arm for it's time, but I think PSII (done right) could be an even greater boost.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-02-13 23:37 ]</font>

Obscenity
Feb 14, 2007, 02:52 AM
Personally, I would have been happy if they just brought the Ages remakes over to the US, or even done something along the lines of what Square/Enix has done with the FF remakes for the GBA.

HUnewearl_Meira
Feb 14, 2007, 10:54 AM
Keep in mind, Obscenity, even in Japan, they haven't yet gotten all of the remakes-- apparently 3D Ages was doing an ass-shitty job getting each title done, and Sega finally fired them. Supposedly they're still planning to release Phantasy Star Generation: 4, but it's been delayed because of all this, and may turn out entirely different from the other two remakes.

Zorafim
Feb 14, 2007, 04:45 PM
On 2007-02-13 23:11, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Seriously - go read the PSII Manga over at Ill-Intent (http://www.ill-intent.com/PS2main.htm). Just the first few chapters of that are far better (imo) than PSU's entire plotline.



I'm going to have to thank you for this. Like, alot.

Zorafim
Feb 15, 2007, 03:23 PM
Hm, I think I'll go ahead and restart PSII. I can tell it's a quality game dispite its age, and it's annoying that I haven't finished it. Of course, I'm so lost in the game right now it would be much better to restart than to start from where I am (plus that gives me more time with Nei).

Though since it's been a while, I may need a suggestion for a team. Would Rolf/Rudo/Anna/Amy work? Or should I try one of the other members in there as well?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-02-15 12:25 ]</font>

Jonty
Feb 15, 2007, 04:46 PM
Nice manga by the by.
I've never played any of the original phantasy stars, but I really really want to =(

Zorafim
Feb 15, 2007, 05:35 PM
There's a Phantasy Star collection for the game boy advanced that has the first three phantasy stars. They're really interesting, and would be better than Final Fantasies if not for a few flaws in them (they don't give you information on spells or equipment that you have, for instance). I wouldn't suggest playing them without a guide that tells you need to know information, and perhaps one with a few maps and such. PSIV is new enough that it tells you what you need to know, and anything that it doesn't tell you you can probably figure out. Of course, it's not on the collection, so you'd have to download it.

Sinue_v2
Feb 15, 2007, 06:42 PM
Hmm, well my party kept changing depending on the time and the circumstance. Usual staples are Rolf, Nei, Anna, Amy, and Rudo. Hugh and Josh are both rather specialized characters (Hugh has great BioMonster affecting attacks, and Josh is a wiz at destorying machines), so take one or the other in places you know there's going to be a lot of a certain type of enemy. Shir is an underpowered character, to be sure, but she's still very workable I think. Most people just use her to steal stuff that you normally couldn't buy, such as the Vision Phone (Visiphone). Though it gets a bit annoying when she steals from a Dezolian shop and you have to backtrack all the way to Paseo to get her again. (After stealing, she dissapears from the party and you have to pick her back up at Rolf's home)

Also, it might heighten the game a bit for you if you read up on the character bios on the Wiki. The game itself didn't dwelve too deeply into the characters, which were rather well fleshed out, simply because of space limitations and because they percieved that there was not much interest for that sort of thing in RPG's. (Remember, at this time, FF's main character was still generically named "Fighter") They published the info in various printed sources however, and the demand for narrative though those helped inspire PSIV's more character-driven plot. So it'll be worth a look to get some of that background.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-02-15 15:51 ]</font>

Nai_Calus
Feb 16, 2007, 05:05 AM
The only RPGs I can think of that I might want to play instead of one of the PSes are Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger, and that's some pretty fucking stiff competition.

It would be nice to see them get a full current-gen update, but I fear the voice acting. You're welcome to disagree with me, but I found PSU's voice acting for the most part horrible except a couple of characters, and fear what a voiced remake would do to PS - Valley girl Alis, or worse, hardened tomboy Alis? Surfer boy Rolf? Gangsta Chaz? Myau sounding, god forbid, like Pete? *shivers in horror* Yeah, hopefully it would be entirely silent.

But yeah, fleshing out of those early plots would be great. Especially fleshing out of characters in game.

Sinue_v2
Feb 16, 2007, 05:52 AM
Agreed... but part of "doing the job right", includes proper voice actors. Unfortunately, I doubt we can trust Sega to do that good of a job, and of course - you're not going to please everybody. Even in the generation 1 & 2 remakes - a lot of people complained about the artwork and redesigned characters.

If it were to happen, hopefully they would at least add in the option to shut voices off and just read subtitles. I had to do that with Star Ocean III and it worked wonders for the context of the game.

opaopajr
Feb 20, 2007, 05:29 AM
actually, i'm rather over voice acting in general. i think the tack sega did in PSO ep3, with the manga panels cut scenes, would obviate the need for voice acting. i dig voice acting, don't get me wrong, but i think people obsess over it on an unhealthy level lately. and, since you can't please everyone on how they individually hear the voices of the characters in their heads, just like when books are turned into movies, it might be better to circumvent that entire issue entirely.

that said, PS series, even PSO series, has a fantastic story, far more complex, mature, and nuanced -- even if incomplete at parts and leaving a lot to the imagination -- than the general gordian knot, "the game needs another 40 hours, write up 20 more senseless plot twists -- and give me mini-games!" schlock we've been spoon-fed these many years. if someone ever got around to doing true justice to those stories, i would be a very happy camper. PS series is in dire need of an AAA+ quality re-release, and PSO is in dire need of a manga or fan book series along the lines of some of the other great sci-fi/fantasy series of our time.

Nai_Calus
Feb 20, 2007, 07:29 AM
I actually didn't like Ep3's manga cutscenes, go fig. Probably because of too much grey to the palette. Yes, it's not a happy era, but grief.

I'd rather have in-game model cutscenes ala PSO or FMV cutscenes ala PSX-era Final Fantasy games with no voice-overs.

Mind you, PSG1 and PSG2 went with something of the same idea as Ep3's cutscenes, albeit with an anime style rather than manga, so that idea has already been done, so if we're going for a big glorious step up from previous versions you'd have to go with the FMV/in-game model idea, heh.

Oh, there's a fun one. Battle systems and keeping people happy. >D Upgrade to the new-fangled running around like it's an action game stuff, or stick with traditional turn-based?

No matter what they did with a remake they'd piss somebody off, heh. I'm surprised that nobody has ever yet as far as I'm aware of started an argument over the true nature of Alis Landale's hair. (Which appears depending on the source as either straight or wavy. XP ...Then you have the sprite having black hair. Oh snap!)

As long as they kept the production values better than whatever led to Lutz apparently having at least three distinct different shades of blue hair in PSG1... XD;

But yeah, PS and yes, PSO too, have some great storylines, even if they're not usually fleshed out that well. (PSU being in my opinion a wild departure from this in that the storyline and characters don't interest me at all... Actually, come to think of it, PSU is the third PS series, isn't it? PSIII, Ep3... PSU? Well that explains everything...)

But yeah, voice acting, especially in video games, can really suck. x.x

(Pardon any incoherence. I have a sinus infection, and my head feels like how the first form of the Profound Darkness looks.)

HUnewearl_Meira
Feb 20, 2007, 01:05 PM
On 2007-02-15 12:23, Zorafim wrote:
Though since it's been a while, I may need a suggestion for a team. Would Rolf/Rudo/Anna/Amy work? Or should I try one of the other members in there as well?


That is precisely the party the game will expect you to have at the end of the game. If you want to save some time on levelling, it's probably good to keep this party as much as possible.

Zorafim
Feb 20, 2007, 04:31 PM
Good, I don't like the fact of having a character that can only work if a certain type of enemy is fighting me. Beyond that, I think the party is pretty well balanced with those characters.

Erm, I was just playing through a new game, and thought of everything ahead of me, and then said "**** it" and loaded my old file. I remember what's happened so far, all I needed was something to jog my memory of what happened. Using that PS site posted earlier, I pimped out my characters and barely got through the yellow dam. I think I'll go from there.
But hot damn do I miss Nei.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-02-20 21:25 ]</font>

SubstanceD
Feb 21, 2007, 03:57 PM
Phantasy Star IV is my favorite game in the series. I bought the Sega MegaDrive ( Genesis ) Collection on the PSP just so I could play this game.

I keep hearing great things about Phantasy Star II but the game hasn't aged very well and I find it very tedious to play. I own the the Phantasy Star collection on the GBA and I haven't even gotten to past the first dungeon yet ( after all these years ). I seem to spend all my time leveling up and still they don't seem like they are strong enough to make it through.

I haven't spent much time on Phantasy Star III so I can't really comment on this game but initail play throughs seme to suggest that it can be just as slow paced as PSII.

HUnewearl_Meira
Feb 21, 2007, 04:30 PM
Phantasy Star II is a very difficult game, and levelling is crucial. You'll spend more time levelling than playing through actual events. It was tedious way back then, too, but it was the best, most awesome thing ever, despite that. Try taking advantage of enemies that duplicate themselves, such as the Blastoids found in Climatrol (these are the best, in fact; they offer more experience than any other duplicating mob you find up to Climatrol, and possibly beyond that point, too). You get full experience for each of these guys you kill, and it's possible to hit the maximum experience you can obtain from a single fight (65,535) by farming these things.

Phantasy Star III is perhaps a little bit better about levelling than Phantasy Star II, but the mobs tend to be more challenging. Phantasy Star III tends to have both the best and worst of everything-- the best theme music, the worst battle theme, the best graphics, the worst animation, the most complicated story, the worst articulation of said story, etc. It's still well worth the play, though you'll quickly discover that the game is wildly different from the others, and the connection to the previous two isn't revealed until toward the end. It's worth it though, to try to see all four endings (despite the immense amount of time this will take), as the parallels of events can become quite interesting to examine. The game offers you the opportunity to see how the simple decision of who to marry impacts the rest of the world.

It's true that the games haven't really aged well, but their settings and stories stand the test of time rather better than their gameplay. The original, though, is certainly an exception. Strangely, Phantasy Star's game play has remained very playable, even to this day.

Obscenity
Feb 21, 2007, 04:36 PM
The original Phantasy Star is still my favorite RPG ever. I admit that it may partially be due to nostalgia, but it's still a game anyone calling themselves an RPG fan should have played already. Multiple times, even. I still play it once or twice a year, and I still love it. It makes me feel like it's 1989 all over again.

Zorafim
Feb 22, 2007, 02:12 PM
Leveling up is important, huh? Leveling is something I never do anymore. I tend to just overprepare and hope I get to the end. However, I am noticing that it's getting more difficult to do that now, even though my characters are rather pimped out equipment wise. Heh, I hope I can make it to the end without grinding for exp...

opaopajr
Feb 23, 2007, 04:21 AM
Phantasy Stars are interesting in that overpreparation tends to be more a requirement than other RPGs. it's funny when some people look at FAQ walkthroughs and see recommendations to buy 'x' equipment, a way to egress back, and 'as many burgers/mate as you can hold.' it seems silly and unnecessary at first to buy all those healing items. but considering some dungeons need a little leveling just to go between floors without dying horribly, you learn real fast that it's some of the best advice you'll get. tends to save you $ and time, instead of piping back and forth, let alone going too far and dying.

a lot of current RPGs allow you to get away with quite a lot that i'm still not used to. that's why i'm surprised people grind up their levels so high, considering how easy the games are (and often how redundant the combat is). Phantasy Star is old school in the sense that it wasn't the flashy battles that made you feel like you were accomplishing something, it was the thrill of pushing a little farther into dangerous and unknown territory riding on the last of your tenuous thread of safety. but, that style is admittedly lengthy and repetative, which explains a bit why it is no longer en vogue.

jizaboz
Feb 23, 2007, 09:15 AM
One thing about Phantasy Star 3 was that during it's initial development it was not even a part of the Phantasy Star series. They switched gears towards the end of creating another RPG and gave the items PS-related names, etc. Even though that was the case, I was still amazed by PS3 when it came out and really put in a lot of hours playing it.

Phantasy Star II was the first of the series I played... my mother paying the retail price of $82.95 (I'm not kidding) for it. I played that game over a year before I beat it and found it simply amazing. The only thing I didn't like about it was spending MANY hours killing dragons in the last castle before fighting the mother brain so I could have a high enough leveled party.

After having played PS 2 and 3... one day I found an old Sears catalog laying around with Master System games in it. I had recently traded my gameboy with all of the games I had for it for a Master System. I couldn't believe that around '92 they STILL had Phantasy Star available! I played it all the way up to somewhere around Dezo. After later selling my games because the Master System died on me, I got the PS collection for Sega Saturn and played through PS1 in Japanese, learning a little along the way and had a blast... it was a great game to throw in and bore friends that I wanted to get out of my room. I got all the way to the final boss... needed a little more leveling for Noah... never finished.

I love Phantasy Star IV but I've never taken the time to play very far into it. Its interface is nice and clean and fast.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jizaboz on 2007-02-23 06:16 ]</font>

HUnewearl_Meira
Feb 23, 2007, 10:57 AM
On 2007-02-22 11:12, Zorafim wrote:
Leveling up is important, huh? Leveling is something I never do anymore. I tend to just overprepare and hope I get to the end. However, I am noticing that it's getting more difficult to do that now, even though my characters are rather pimped out equipment wise. Heh, I hope I can make it to the end without grinding for exp...



If you don't stop to grind at some point, Rolf will be around level 28 or so when you get to Dark Force.


At which point...


Dark Force. Will. Kick. Your. Ass.


Seriously. Rolf doesn't get his last technique, Megid, until level 35, and Megid in Phantasy Star II isn't some willy-nilly, nyah nyah, drop or I'll hurl another purple ball at you, like it is in PSO and PSU. In Phantasy Star II, Megid is a huge explosion that does massive damage to EVERYTHING ON THE SCREEN-- including your own party. The only one safe from it is Rolf.

So yeah, it's probably best to try to get some leveling done early on.

Zorafim
Feb 23, 2007, 11:37 AM
Poopies...

Omega_Weltall
Feb 25, 2007, 10:13 AM
Paid 90.00 for PS2, i think 69 for PS3 and 75 for PS4, came out the friday after my birthday. needless to say that was one bad ass gift. And now PS2-4 and several other Genesis games are all on the Genesis Collection for 19 bux for the PS2 version and 30 for the PSP.....

DC_PLAYER
Feb 25, 2007, 03:25 PM
i just play PS4 on an emulator, altought the game has some bugs, i still play it, and in my opinion, it is one of the best genesis games around, great graphics, great sound and music, great animations and a wonderfull gameplay.
my current char in pso was inspired after rune (omega_weltal avatar)
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/5233/semttulo5vq9.png

PrinceBrightstar
Feb 25, 2007, 03:27 PM
For me, the classic series is where it has always been for a good story. Some of the changes I'll never understand like the name changes which messed up the jokes (like Rune saying what a weird name Chaz had when he was refering to Chaz's japanese name Rudy.

To be quite honest, I don't think the remakes so far on the PS2 have done enough. Sure they keep the classic style, but we've left the age of being stuck in walk points and sprite based worlds. There's freedom of movement now in most games and much better technology. I'm seeing a lot of requests in this thread....maybe I'll do something over the weekend here.

Zorafim
Feb 28, 2007, 01:25 AM
Ah, I just got the Nei weapons and am able to enter Noah. However, I want to get all my spells before continuing. Where would a good place to level up be? It seems like Noah itself wouldn't be bad, since I can teleport back to the mansion and have Lutz heal me.
Also, what level should I have everyone at? Should I stop at lv35 for Megid? Or should I continue on?

JericHikari
Oct 12, 2007, 10:22 AM
I honestly would love to see n update to the old series for the DS. Given the size of the DS's cart and the capabilities of the system itself, I'm sure it could easily be done, even if you updated the graphics(still keeping it 2d....maybe updating all the gamesso they ahve the comic book type cutscenes PS4 had. All they'd have to do is fix a few of the errors9like the SLOW AS DEATH WALKING SPEED) and I'd be happy. Of course adding things like spell descriptions would be nice too.

Oh and while we're on the ball of what we'd like to see in the remakes, more hunter missions for ps4 and side jobs that Rolf could take from the government tower, you know...because it'd be nice to have other things to do.

mizukage
Oct 13, 2007, 09:56 PM
Classical games. Well, I only played PS4, because anything before that has bad graphics and sound. Personally, I am willing to buy a future re-release version of PS1-PS4, only if its completely remade into new generation rpg style like the Final Fantasy series for the ps2 or xbox360. The storylines for the pre-PSO games are actually very good.

Edited: I was outdated. Actually, Sega has already remake the pre-PSO games, only the first 2 for now for ps2. Unfortunately, there is still no US release for now. Once they make the US version, I plan on buying it. Finally, the good classical games with new graphics.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mizukage on 2007-10-13 20:03 ]</font>

http://sega.jp/ps2/ages01/ (PS2)
http://ages.sega.jp/ps2/generation.html (PS1)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mizukage on 2007-10-13 20:09 ]</font>

Jaspaller
Oct 24, 2007, 12:55 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing a graphical update to the PS series. I've never played them before and since Sega is lazy, I don't think we can expect one from them. Maybe a Redone version from fans would happen (Like the Chrono Trigger remakes that got shut down a long while back).