I don't see why claws are underpowered.

[Zorafim]

This is another fanboy rant, so if you do not wish to read another one of these, leave now. You have been warned.

Claws have been around PS games since swords and fire spells have been (longer than androids and newmen, in fact). It gave the game something to distinguish it from other RPGs, along with its futuristic background. Many loved characters were claw users, and may of even been loved because they used claws. Yet, when PSO came out, claws were never used due to the fact that there was no reason to use them (other than aesthetic reasons). Now that PSU comes out, claws get another chance, but are quickly seen as inferior (because, well, they are), or in the case of single claw, silly. It seems that such a staple PS weapon would be loved enough by PS's creators that it would be balanced well enough to be as usable as other weapons.

Ah, I've been playing too much PSII again... [/fanboyinducedrant]

[Parn]

I'm glad claws aren't very popular. Likewise with fists! Makes me stand out more since they comprise 4 out of the 6 weapon slots I have.

[McLaughlin]

Sega wouldn't be Sega if all the weapons were viable options.

[ljkkjlcm9]

I love single claws. I seriously think if the PAs were more useful, more people would use them. But the twin claw PAs, basically suck.

THE JACKEL

[Parn]

The second twin claw PA is awesome.

[BLACKR0SE]

I like claw.The ultimate PA is nice.

[-Rune-]

I don't think they're underpowered. Twin first off has so many "stun" hits in the combo, it's hard to interupt. The single is so quick you can usually get in 2 or all 3 hits and retreat unscathed. I think Single is underused due to only having one PA atm.

[Eliash]

Claws need to be underpowered, because if they weren't then what would be?

Ok, now to be a bit more serious. Every game that has multipul weapon types, have some that are underpowered and other overpowered. The good news is that things can change. Take the twin dagger PA (Renkai) nerf...if they can nerf a PA it would only be logical to conclude they can (and have) increase the other undesirable PAs. So this undesirable weapon today, may have a nice PA in the future.

Besides, would you really want everyone using your weapon of choice just because it's 'the weapon?' If you want to get something changed about the claw try sending some kind of feedback to ST. And by Feedback I don't mean "The claw and twin claws are worse than the other melee weaponry." but something with data. Devise a test composed of base damage, average amount of PAs capable with the claw, average PA damage, PA utility issues and other such things.

I cannot say they will listen to you and/or your suggestions, but by presenting actual data instead of just saying they aren't good makes your case much stronger. Anyhow, good luck and enjoy your claws. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Tengoku]

They're trying to keep the Wolverine clones to a minimum. /snark

I kinda like them. Not as usefull as I would like, but they're fun to look at and use. I suppose it depends on if WTFPWNing is your thing or if having fun is. I'm more of the fun type.

Claws are A-ok!

[CelestialBlade]

Twin Claws are hardly underpowered. Being able to rush in and deliver a flurry of quick strikes with the second PA is extremely useful, I've found. No, it doesn't hit multiple enemies, but not everything needs to. When you need to beat the living hell out of a single target, claws rock.

[-Rune-]

Well said Typheros http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gifv I agree totally.

[Rashiid]

Twin Claws? my fav melee weapon? luv em.

[VanHalen]

i like many of the unpopular weapons like fist and both claws(when i get to use them stupid newman ATP kinda wish power material was still here). they have the coolest looking PAs but nobody ever wants to use them. what happened to looking cool in a online game http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[throttlekitty]

Actually Typheros, that PA does hit multiples on the second and third combo hits http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

My ground claws are having lots of fun against Go-Vahras!

A good note on the various weapons and PA's is that no single type is best for all monsters, and certainly no good if one can't use them well. /zen

[Sephlock]

On 2007-02-15 14:48, Typheros wrote:
When you need to beat the living hell out of a single target, claws rock.



So you'd recommend them for use against, say.... the De Ragnus?

[hainsaw3]

Claws are awesome!

and I'd like them even more when I can use them.

[EphekZ]

um underpowered?

http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/1/879/giza_misaki/
http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/1/1077/buccaneer/

same atp

twin claws
http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/1/876/ran_misaki/
http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/1/1090/heavy_twins/

claws have more atp...so what's your statement again?

[ShinMaruku]

On 2007-02-15 14:35, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
Sega wouldn't be Sega if all the weapons were viable options.


Sonic Team fool!
VF shows that they are capable of viable options. Service Games should sacrifice Sonic Team

[omegapirate2k]

Pff... I love the first single claw PA, if you have the dedication required to level the bitch, it becomes incredibly powerful.

[ShinMaruku]

Of course it pwns I have it leveled offline and I bounce about

[DurakkenX]

I don't use claws cuz it's not my "style", but i like claws...I also didn't like them on PSO because their animation was ugly...not cuz of under powering...but yeah sega seams to be able to take an idea and make it almost great, like one step away, and add some horrible mutation to it that ruins it.

[Zorafim]

On 2007-02-15 16:32, EphekZ wrote:
um underpowered?

http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/1/879/giza_misaki/
http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/1/1077/buccaneer/

same atp

twin claws
http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/1/876/ran_misaki/
http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/1/1090/heavy_twins/

claws have more atp...so what's your statement again?



Good, now compare their PAs.

Also, I never said that single claw was as bad as their dual counterparts, their PA is just silly. Going by other people's remarks, their final PA is also wanting (I really hope this isn't true).

Also, I'm surprised anybody actually acknowledged me. I just started this topic because I just remembered how much Nei owns. I simply want to be able to create a similar character while maintaining her level of ownage.

[EphekZ]

what? single claw PA sucks? how? it deals good dmg and has a chance to knock up or back.

[-Ryuki-]

Dual Claws doesn't suck. Single Claw PA is just better than the Dual Claw's first PA. The Dual Claw's second PA is good, though.

Single Claw PA does not suck. Whoever said that, has been smoking a little too much Neu Wood.

[ljkkjlcm9]

single claw PA is great, and as much as you say the second Dual Claw PA is good, it still only hits one target, which to me, is not very good.

THE JACKEL

[-Ryuki-]

On 2007-02-15 18:35, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
single claw PA is great, and as much as you say the second Dual Claw PA is good, it still only hits one target, which to me, is not very good.

THE JACKEL


Look at it this way. Everyone dislikes Anga Dugrega. For the most part, it's MORE useful against large mobs and bosses. Same goes with Dus Daggas. Single Claw is good at single targets, as well as two. Dual Claw's 2nd PA may be single, but no way is it "not very good".

If anything, you just don't prefer it because you like certain aspects to a PA.

[-Rune-]

I swore the 2nd and 3rd hit in dual's second PA hits groups of enemies <.<;

[shenrei]

Twin Claws are my favorite weps. Both PAs have their uses. Funny how some people are too blinded by Renkai, Dus Dagas, and Gravity Dance. People that have grouped with me know this http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


shenrei
lvl 70 Beast lvl 10 fortefighter/ lvl 4 wartecher

[ShinMaruku]

Once you level up the PA enough say to the seocnd level you rape everything

[Ryuen]

I actually use Twin claws as well! I use their first PA to slash through groups of enemies and for the second PA I do use against big enemies. The normal attack I do use for damage despite being slow for my tastes and a bit of short range. That and I feel that their PAs have an aggressive edge and look badass.

[Flamingo99]

When i first heard that claws and, namely, twin claws were aquirable in this game, i almost peed myself. I love claws in any video game mainly because they have decent power and they are quick. Well, in PSU they have decent power, but they are as slow as twin sabers, and they hit just as many times if using a female character. I'd rather have twin claws stronger than twin daggers but weaker than twin sabers and their peed between both. Needless to say, i'm a dagger fan now.

[Fearthewolf]

I looooooove the buff to the twin claw first PA!

Being able to hit 3 enemies at once (or 3 points on a big monster) makes it more viable now, and it looks waaaay cool to me. I honestly think the first twin claw pa > second claw pa in style, but thats just me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Krans]

First twin claw PA = WORST PA
Second twin claw PA = pretty nice PA
one handed = havent tried

[-Ryuki-]

On 2007-02-15 20:08, Krans wrote:
First twin claw PA = WORST PA
Second twin claw PA = pretty nice PA
one handed = havent tried


Wow. Great comparison. =)

[Krans]

On 2007-02-15 20:10, RyukiZero wrote:

On 2007-02-15 20:08, Krans wrote:
First twin claw PA = WORST PA
Second twin claw PA = pretty nice PA
one handed = havent tried


Wow. Great comparison. =)



lol thanks,

Seriously though with the first twin PA and the second, the main difference i think is leveling it. The second one it thrust forward and you get like what 3 or 4 hits in? and it levels faster. The first one you just jump up and down like a fricken kangaroo and it takes forever

[huntlyon]

I kinda make these weird jumps where I go all out.. rather than try a card, I buy a ageha kikami board without a range pm and spent prolly more than I want to think after I ran out of Neu Ebon... my twin class experience was about the same... 50-60k on a player made 7* twin claw and 36k on the fancy new PA...thank god shopper's remorse never hit me. the lunge is fantastic given the normal range of the things... I will defintely keep a pair on me at all times

[-Ryuki-]

I was being sarcastic when I said that.. >.>;

[-Rune-]

Funny though... the PA's that take the longest to lvl are always the best ones in the end. At least that's how it works for me... Truthfully out of all PA's Twin Saber#2 is the best for me, I wanted since before game was released. If they had that same PA on claws I'd use them just as much. <3

[Alisha]

in my opinion this thread illustrates one of the hugest problems with psu. if you didnt have to tag enemies for exp i wonder how many people would actually care if a weapon hits multiple targets. im somewhat of a masochist and refuse to use spears or twin daggars so its dual claws and sword all the baby!

dual claw = fighting game moves!!!!!

PA#1 = vega

pa#2 = king of fighters

pa#3 = fulgore/killer instinct and is the sweetest looking pa in the game.!!!

[Pikadrew]

Honestly, I still haven't quite found my groove for twin claws, but that may be because my PA is only at like lvl13, but one handed claw is OMGWTFBBQPWN with the PA lvled. It pretty much insta-ganks anything opposite element. I don't even bother with the 2nd hit anymore. Just do 1st hit, run back, shoot a few times and then PA again. Most stuff dies after that..

[VanHalen]

On 2007-02-15 18:51, shenrei wrote:
Funny how some people are too blinded by Renkai, Dus Dagas, and Gravity Dance.






dude do you read minds? cause i believe you too that those are like the most overused PAs it makes people look unoriginal (though i dont care if people overuse gravity dance that much that move is so freaking cool looking.

[landman]

I'm another single claw PA lover, I am waiting to the third/ultimate PA for the dual claws, I don’t like having 2 PA for the same weapon... don't have the time to master them >.< I actually use only 4 PA/tipe of weapons: twin daggers (mastered, too easy -.-), spear (dus dagas, almost mastered), sword (tornado break, needed another PA to train since I mastered lvl 20 on hunter for sabre, twin dagger and spear) and single claw (near lvl 15). Plus all bullets for handgun. I don't have an axe because I don't have the money >_>

[Reimiko]

/flamebait
The funniest thing about all this twin claw hating is that the average player doesn't realize that Bukuu Rasen-ga rivals equal level PAs from the most overly used overly popular double sabers and twin claw PAs as far as damage is concerned but *gasp* you actually have to be good with knowing when to use it and aiming it to hit multiple targets. granted spiral dance can still edge it out if you ever get 4 targets that close together in front of you most doublesaber fanboys don't take advantage of it.

[Magician]

I love both the single and twin claws.

I use a fire twin claw since all ice enemies are still in basic form are there isn't a ice boss yet.

I use an ice single claw, it is my main (favorite) weapon, and I can't wait for its Ultimate PA.

And yes, the second twin claw PA is boss.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Magician on 2007-02-16 04:50 ]</font>

[Miyuki-chan]

both of the Twin Claw PAs were recently buffed up quite a bit http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Bukuu Rensen-ga = Now hits 3 enemies instead of 2 on the first 2 stages
Renzan Seidan-ga = Now hits 2 enemies on parts 2 and 3

so both are pretty good for multipart enemies now http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

oh... and the 2nd part of Renzan Seidan-ga will sometimes knock down certain
mini-boss class monsters i.e.: Polavohra, Tengoghs and such http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

and to the OP: i understand the old school PS love of claws, Nei and Rika ftw ;p

[Zorafim]

Hm, I didn't know that they got buffed. I've been using the first one just because of fanboyism (I have way too much of that...), but the second one may just be viable now. The extra targets could put it on par with other PAs.

[Miyuki-chan]

On 2007-02-16 13:46, Zorafim wrote:
Hm, I didn't know that they got buffed. I've been using the first one just because of fanboyism (I don't have enough of that...), but the second one may just be viable now. The extra targets could put it on par with other PAs.



fixed!

[ShinMaruku]

The seocnd part of the dual claw PA reminds me of Rika's move.

[Miyuki-chan]

On 2007-02-16 15:08, ShinMaruku wrote:
The seocnd part of the dual claw PA reminds me of Rika's move.



Disrupt! *hacks up a bunch of Poltys*

[BahnKnakyu]

I wanted to like claws, but there's a main reason why I dislike it: the PP regen on those things are horrendous and the PAs themselves cost too much for WTs (no 25% natural class PP reduction). So you have three expensive PAs that are dependent upon a weapon that has a mediocre PP pool. This is bad. It can be compensated for on the PC/PS2 side because of the haxeta - carry lots of Photon Charges or multiples of weapons, but to have to carry 3-4 sets of claws just because of its inherent downfall is kind of annoying to me.

It doesn't immediately hit several monsters at once (unlike Buten Shuernzan, which is by far my most favorite PA). Sure, the Twin Claw and Claw PAs can do that, but they're more difficult to do so. One may say that you have to be more "skilled" with the PA to make it hit multiple monsters, but IMO that just indicates that the PA is ineffective. BSZ can hit multiple monsters even on the first part of the combo.

Mediocore normal moveset. The swings are a bit on the slow side to me, and the end of the normal combo has some major cooldown time unless you cancel the lag from the combo into the PA. Of course, with the limited PP pool you have with these two weapons, you don't want to always spam it because you'll run out of PP easily (compared to Single and Twin Daggers).

Lack of stopping power. The Single Claw PA is pretty decent for this, but it's slower than other alternatives, most notably Rising Strike, which I think is a pretty useful PA overall because of its sheer speed and how the hits are spaced out just right. The Single Claw PA lacks this.

So yeah - these are the reasons why I don't like using claws, as much as I WANT to like using them. Bottom line: Not enough bang for the buck.

[Jibby]

Claws aren't underpowered, they're just not quite as overpowered as their awesome looks suggest they should be.

[Reimiko]

/flamebait
The funniest thing about all this twin claw hating is that the average player doesn't realize that Bukuu Rasen-ga rivals equal level PAs from the most overly used overly popular double sabers and twin claw PAs as far as damage is concerned but *gasp* you actually have to be good with knowing when to use it and aiming it to hit multiple targets. granted spiral dance can still edge it out if you ever get 4 targets that close together in front of you most doublesaber fanboys don't take advantage of it.

[Zorafim]

You already wrote that. It was about five posts ago.

Anyway, while we're in the subject of claws and since this has been moved to the guides forum anyway, does anyone know how useful the two final claw PAs are (single and dual)? I have the PA fragments for both of them, and have no plans on buying any other PA. The dual seems to be a 2-2-3 combo, first two parts targeting two enemies while the third targets three, and the second one seems to be a 2-1 combo, first hitting two enemies and the second hitting three. I don't know of any stuns that these may have though, or of the modifiers. Would anyone know about these?

[-Ryuki-]

Claws got better?

Looks like I know what I'm capping next on Ryuki.

Maybe Ori, instead.

[Zorafim]

Yes, I was basing my dislike of claws on their previous stats. They're almost worth using now. The first one hits three targets now, making it almost useful on large enemies with multiple targets, and the second one now hits two targets with its second part instead of one. The first one also seems to have boosted its target range to help with its target cap.

I still don't think that they're worth using over other similar weapons, but damn if I'm not having fun with them.