7* vs. 8*/9*

[Krans]

Just wondering everyones opinions, i finally got my hands on a nightwalker (20%ice) but it didnt seem to be doing much more damage then my double saber (22% fire) so i ended up selling the nightwalker and getting a 24% ice bone dance, anyone else notice the same or is it just me?

[Eliash]

Depends on what you are fighting, I assume you know how elements factor in so I won't consider that.

Some monsters are just melee resistant, while others aren't. Maybe this is the cause?

[Garnet_Moon]

I hope to god you weren't testing them on nothing but Ice Mobs. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

EDIT: Now, the melee damage bonus just on ATP on the weapon itself isn't too major to notice with the basic high/low default numbers.

You only notice smaller changes on attacks with higher numbers. For example, if you compare a 50% 7* Dus Daggas to a 50% 9* Dus Daggas, the damage is noticable.

Try the same with a PA that has something low like 100% damage or close, and the damage isn't too noticable.

If I use a 1* Rod compared to a 9* rod, and use Dambarta, the damage drop is only 120.

If I use Diga, the damage is insanely noticeable.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2007-02-15 20:33 ]</font>

[Krans]

yea perhaps, i notice the difference now between bone dance and nightwalker a little i guess maybe the fire monsters i were fighting are just stronger.

I know the % importance, i don't have any wepas under 20% anymore but anyone have pure stats like say a 24% ice bone dance = 10% ice nightwalker on fire creatures? Just wondering if anyone has data like that

[imfanboy]

OK.

%s act as a multiplier, just like the Photon arts do.

Let's say that you have 420 ATP, and a Bone Dance adds 310 to that - you've got 730. Now, you have 22% ice, which multiplies that by 1.22 = 890 ATP.

Compare that to a Nightwalker with 10% at only 825 ATP and you start to realize that %s matter far more than *s.

Think of the following, too - the first multiplier applies is the Photon Art one, and THEN the elemental % is applied. So if your Gravity dance is at 130% that means that your final modifier will be 730 x 1.3 x 1.22 = 1157.

Also, it seems as though the elemental % multiplier ignores armor to some extent... but then, that might be my imagination. *shrug*

[Garnet_Moon]

I don't do math. I just look at numbers. My Double Saber hits for 100 base per strike. Give or take 10. 50% element makes it 150 per strike.

My Nightwalker was something like 120 per strike, as for element? iunno, I never had a 50% Nightwalker. :

[EphekZ]

well for one, the double saber series doesnt get much atp boost from weapon to weapon, as it's a fairly weak weapon. but say weapons with more atp, and a wider difference, the damage is a lot more noticable.

[huntlyon]

hell, my favorite weapon is a survivor with only 22 % ice... ground up 8 times.. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Aixiao]

It'd be rather unfair if we DS users did massive damage to the 4 targets we hit, wouldn't it?

There's a reason they're not godly strong xD

[Libram]

I just wanted to say that when multiplying multiple numbers by each other it doesn't matter what the order is. The outcome would be the same if you switched everything around.

Now, I understand the importance of %s in relation to ATP, but what about ATA? Would the difference between a 7* and 9* with similar %s be more pronounced when ATA is factored into the equation?

[Sekani]

Assuming that same 22% ice weapon: does the elemental bonus/penalty only apply against fire/ice monsters (fire 1.22, ice 0.78)? If I used it against a lightning monster, would the elemental multiplier only be 1.0?

[Krans]

Yeah generally on the same page with you guys, i guess the difference was about right just didnt seem that noticable, you think i should stick with the 24% ice bone dance (bought for 165k) or look for another decent percent nightwalker (sold mine for 275k)

[imfanboy]

Garnet_moon, since the Nightwalker has 20% more ATP than a double saber, you're right on the head with how much more damage it should do with no elemental %.


Ephek_Z, you're right of course, but don't forget that the elemental % is applied after your ATP is added to the ATA and the PA multiplier as well. While it may make a HUGE difference for axes because 20% of 1700+ is not small potatoes (mental note, must synth more axes), you also have to remember that the double saber PAs hit many times (against a large knockdown-immune target, spiral dance hits 9 times, with the final 3 hits being at close to 200%, and it multi-targets as well) and that Gravity Dance outdamages Dus Robado, Renkan Soren-zan (or whatever the dagger one is), and Tornado Break easily, with the benefit of a knockup at something like 400% as part 3 of the combo.

With every hit of those double sabers, the multiplier is added, and 20% of 900 added 4 times over is not to be sneered at. Double sabers match axes, but in different ways: axe does more raw damage to a single target, double sabers stun/knockdown or sweep mobs better.


Libram, I notice no difference in hit rates as a 49/5 caseal figunner from a 9* to a 7* - which is all to the good, as I have a 50% ice Double Saber. 20 ATA doesn't make that much of a difference; if it were say 50 ATA THEN it would be a sockdologer.

Plus, for pure synthing purposes, it costs as much to synth 9 7*s as it does to synth 3 9*s!!!! Provided you're not paying PS2 overinflated photon prices, that is. I harvest my own and ignore the market in that regard. Because you're making 9 weapons instead of 3, your chance of getting better %s is much higher - while you'll get more crap weapons (under 20%), you also have a better shot at getting a good % 'cause you're rolling the dice more often.


Sekani, you're exactly right: it's a flat 1.0 against monsters not of a matching/opposing element.

[Krans]

Well i got my hands on another 20% nightwalker and did some tests.

24% Bone Dance hit for an average of 5-10 more than the 20% nightwalker on same enemies tested numerous times, nightwalker had better accuracy

[Pikadrew]

On 2007-02-16 02:34, imfanboy wrote:

Libram, I notice no difference in hit rates as a 49/5 caseal figunner from a 9* to a 7* - which is all to the good, as I have a 50% ice Double Saber. 20 ATA doesn't make that much of a difference; if it were say 50 ATA THEN it would be a sockdologer.




...

sockdologer? What'd you call my mom?