Why do forces complain and Newmans as well?

[XDeviousX]

I see a lot of people complaining about how pso forces did this and had that, but lets be honest, pso forces became really weak later in the game. Techs weren't very effective at all and forces turned into healers and buff/debuffers. I love PSO for what it was but forces in PSU start off effective and stay effective and can do mass damage at all levels!!! People think because forces are balanced now that they are worse then pso, that just tells me some people are lazy aor spoiled. The things forces "lost" got replaced by effectiveness and utility. If you want speed back, use a wand and find a speed unit. If you want a pso force with psu advantages the game will be massively unbalance!! All the types are a lot more balanced now.

A) People that complain about fighting fast enemies is a chore, use a tech that casts in a wall and use some extra mp!!! It's not that hard if you use tactics. Most enemies die in a 1-4 hits with the right tech!! Even bosses get hit hard! if speed is still a problem do a buff/bow combo!!!

B) People complain about switching weapons to cast different spells, but in PSO you cound only have like 6 spells max on your action bar, in pso since they attach to weapons you have a world of techs at your disposal, plus melee and ranged weapons with combos!!!

C) The techs in pso looked better.. This is true, but isn't really an effectiveness issue, just image...

D)People complain about targeting limit and if there were no target limit, and range reduction on field of effect techs, with PSU forces' extra damage nobody else would gain xp!!!

I see a lot more forces and force advanced classes on PSU then I ever did on PSO and that's for sure.


As for people complaining about Newmens getting nothing and casts get SUV and beasts Transform, Newmans and humans get special weapons, and a lot of them with more to come!!! Plus no other race can get close to 2k with a single tech hit like newmans can. Game balance is to make every race/class have an even playing field. I have a force level 20 newman and a fighgunner beast and my force does a lot more damage at 20 then my beast hunter ever did!!! Of coarse my beast had a ton more hp, but again, game balance.

Too many people want their forces to have hp and melee damage of a hunter plus speed, range, and unlimitted tech hit of pso, and the psu damage on techs!! This is unrealistic. Hunters and rangers have been tweaked too and most people don't complain, but forces have to do work now and people get bent out of shape. You should appreciate the positives about the class as I've said before forces are effective in later levels and solo missions!! *Ends Rant*

Anyone have anything new or intellegent to add?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XDeviousX on 2007-02-26 14:03 ]</font>

[VanHalen]

Well I always said that Humans and Newmans special ability is to kick ass and still look good doing it. I don't need a nanoblast or SUV I'm happy with what I have a newman hunter.
Well despite being a newman I noticed alot of newmans I have partied with being more stuck up then whiney.

[MayLee]

Let's just face it. No one is ever satisfied.

[Tengoku]

The only issues I have with being a force (my first character, now my shop alt) is that the techs often leave the character exposed with their slow animations. There seems to be a delay, whether imagined or real, that leaves a force exposed to enemy fire after casting a tech. This means that a fast enemy (one that moves around alot) is difficult for a force to pin down and blast. It's tough to run-and-gun as a Force, which is bad, because I'm a run-and-gun kinda person no matter the class I play. Which, truth be told, is probably the reason being a force is not the easiest for me.

Now I'm not complaining, because when I want to go out and murder on-level things that give other classes fits, I choose my force. Unfortunately, I pretty much solo and a force going in solo means that all enemy action is focused on them and the mobile enemies really make life difficult.

So yeah, when I want a real challenge, I run my force. If I just want to get MPs and exp I run my Ranger, Hunter, or Figunner.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

My problem with forces in PSU is that they have the ability to be the main damage dealer. While damage cancel and crazy high enemy tech resistances on PSO were also stupid, this is nearly as bad. Hunters should be the main damage dealers, especially since it is 43865346584362725856234 times harder to get excellent equipment for hunters than for forces (cf. elemental percent). The over-poweredness of forces leads a bunch of n00bs to play the class (OMG I GET ALL DA BIG NUMBARZ111), and they without fail do stupid shit like use only Diga, Foie, Gidiga, and Dumbarta. That type of force is playing PSU on way easy mode.

In all the time I've been playing, I have only seen a handful of forces that are actually good (by my standards). Thankfully, I have the distinct pleasure of playing with the best fT ever, so I rarely have to worry about this too much.

People need to realize that forces are primarily support, and damage dealers only secondarily. Worried about not getting any EXP by just playing support? Then throw Jellen/Zalure/Zoldeel on everything. Once everyone is buffed, healed above 3/4 HP, cured of all status ailments, and the big enemies are debuffed as needed, then you may proceed to spam your Dumbarta or whatever.

[Scion]

I think people just complain about that because they wanna be able to accomplish something by themselves in a quick, efficient manner, but let's face it: You just can't do that in this game.

This game is about teamwork. And also, this game is about teamwork, xD. I've never finished an S-rank mission by myself in under 30 minutes. But, if I had the power and situational advantage of a PSU force, and the effectiveness and speed of a PSO force, I'd hate this game. I mean, I wouldn't mind having that...xD. I just know that I'd be incredibly broken and that can get old very quickly. SOME people, on the other hand, would probably take that and say "I PWNZ UR F4C3!1!!!!1!! GTFO u n00b hUnTeR". Wouldn't that just make you cringe?

So, even with these "disadvantages" that I have, I still LOVE being a force. I can do something that most classes cannot do, and I can do it effectively. I can heal and strengthen my comrades, and cripple and nuke the crap out of the opposition. I have no reason to complain, xD.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Speaking of soloing, fT is by far the best, with only WT coming anywhere close.

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-02-26 15:07, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Thankfully, I have the distinct pleasure of playing with the best fT ever, so I rarely have to worry about this too much.


I've never played with you....

Anyway, everything seems balanced. Forces are no more the "main damage dealer" than any other class...it just depends on what you are fighting. Forces do well against certain enemies and poorly against others. Same with Hunters. Same with Rangers.

I whole-heartedly agree with anyone who claims that 90% of the Forces who play this game are complete garbage. Don't believe me?? Again, check their stats when you're in the lobby. I saw a level 70 Force the other day with a level 18 Resta/16 Reverser. I didn't think that was possible.

[Scion]

Sorry for the double post, but...



As for people complaining about Newmens getting nothing and casts get SUV and beasts Transform, Newmans and humans get special weapons, and a lot of them with more to come!!! Plus no other race can get close to 2k with a single tech hit like newmans can. Game balance is to make every race/class have an even playing field. I have a force level 20 newman and a fighgunner beast and my force does a lot more damage at 20 then my beast hunter ever did!!! Of coarse my beast had a ton more hp, but again, game balance.


I forgot about this part of the topic...Actually I would've REALLY liked if we got something. NOT something offensive though. I really do not want the equivalent of an SUV or a nanoblast. That just adds no variety whatsoever. What I do think we should have gotten, though, is something that supports. You know, like the photon blasts Leilla, and the Twins (forgot their names but I'M SURE most of you know what I'm talking about). Like, a level 4 Shifta/Deband/Zoldial/Retier type of thing (making it stronger than the techs themselves). [Edit]:Of course for the whole team, I mean that would just be stupid if it was only for us, no? Or a healing ability, for those ambitious (not crazy, gimped, etc.) Newman Fortefighters, although, that might throw the balance out of whack, I don't know.

Meh, that's just what I think. If it is too much for us to have, you could take away the Crea weapons from us (I haven't really seen/heard of any Newmans actually using them, so I can't really say).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hikaru-san on 2007-02-26 15:24 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hikaru-san on 2007-02-26 15:25 ]</font>

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Newmans get to use some racially limited weapons (Creas, Halarod) and have a higher stat total than beasts and casts (especially in force-related stats). There's your racial ability.

[Sychosis]

I have no gripes playing a force. I'm very happy that forces are now able to deal damage with TECHS for once. Tech damage was pitiful in PSO. Throw in damage cancel and it becomes a no brainer, buff, heal, melee. As a spell caster, that is just stupid.

As a Newman, I feel we get the short end of the stick. CASTs are arguably the BEST race in the game, they win in every class but Force/Fortetecher. Even then they have bows at their disposal. On top of having SUV weapons.

Beasts come in second, with their ability to compensate very well for their handicapped ATA.

Humans rank third IMO, the ability to do decently in any class isn't bad. Nothing great, but nothing bad.

Newmans as anything but a Fortetecher are outclassed by other races. Plain and simple. As for our ability to be the best forces, that's BS. CASTs make the best gunners, and Beasts make the best fighters. Both classes are capable of comparable, and usually better, DPS.

Race specific weapons are a joke. A newman fortetecher IS NOT going to be using hunter weapons! Not to mention there is a nice little rifle that is CAST only...

I know it looks like it, but I'm not complaining. I rather like my FOnewearl just as she is.


On 2007-02-26 15:17, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Speaking of soloing, fT is by far the best, with only WT coming anywhere close.



Please tell me the secret. I can't solo for shit. There has to be something I'm doing wrong. 100% serious here, advice appreciated http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sychosis on 2007-02-26 15:36 ]</font>

[Scion]

Well, you did bring up a good point. It's something I would have liked though...lol. But obviously, I haven't killed myself over not having one since I've been able to get a Newman to level 70, and enjoyed every minute of it xD.

[MrFortegunner]

I think the forces in psu are harder to master but when you do, LET THE KILLIN BEGIN!!!!

[XDeviousX]

Are you guys crazy? Humans are built to be the best at adavanced classes (except forte's)as they do everything balanced, and in pso newmans were laste in ALL stats except mental ones. Newmans are best in evade and great in accuracy making gun techers newmans stat wise the best!!! Most Newmans I see try to boost def and don't even think to max evade which is sometimes better because even enemy techs can be evaded. Crea weapons aside Newmans have a lot of advantages. as far as being damage dealers forces R suppose t do the most damage, but at the slowest pace. Hunters get defense and speed of attackss/skills and forces do mass damage in spurts to soften enemies as they heal/buff/debuff. All the races and types are well balanced with the exception of units for forces and rangers are few and far between but that is because of force class utility and power. Seriously, newmans can do great damage an whe the nos techs come out the potential will raise even more... Casts have accuracy and good power, beasts have Power/def and good mental stats, Newmans have Mental power/evasion and good accuracy and humans as stated are equal in all stats. Humans own at all adance classes except forte classes that were meant to max racial benifits!!!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XDeviousX on 2007-02-26 15:51 ]</font>

[Sychosis]

Even your hybrids lean one way or the other, and taking the race that benefits whichever way they lean is usually better than being human.

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-02-26 16:02, Sychosis wrote:
Even your hybrids lean one way or the other, and taking the race that benefits whichever way they lean is usually better than being human.



Semi true, I have a beast fighgunner and although I can use melee weapons far better then other races, and a cast could use all the guns faster and better, humans can use both guns and melee weapons at the same pace and stregnth. Plus having special weapons suited for your race doesn't hurt. Humans aren't that bad off when they get de ragan slayer, svultus sword, Bil horn cannon (can't think of name..) etc.

People need to not see the classes as just what is out now as well. Humans are far from getting all their stuff, same as every other race.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XDeviousX on 2007-02-26 16:12 ]</font>

[Sychosis]

But as a Fighgunner, a CAST is better at BOTH melee and ranged. I think Humans excel at doing 2+ expert classes. For example, doing both Wartecher and Fighgunner.

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-02-26 16:22, Sychosis wrote:
But as a Fighgunner, a CAST is better at BOTH melee and ranged. I think Humans excel at doing 2+ expert classes. For example, doing both Wartecher and Fighgunner.



Even still crea weapons are the same as having SUV weapons, just better and worse in a way. Crea weapons don't need to charge so they're always as effective and you can use your extra slot for other units, esp new units not online yet... I can't help but think people just want to complain. Humans are doing fine, and so are Newmans. Casts are the best for people that want to use casts and so on. If humans suck so bad why do people play them? Crea weapons, Del weapons, Bil horn weapons, Svultus sword, Vahra claws, etc. etc.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Humans make good WTs, FGs, GTs, and PTs, and are decent at everything else.
Newmans make good fTs, WTs, and GTs, and are decent at fG.
Beasts make good fFs and WTs, and are decent at FG and PT.
Casts make good FGs, fGs, and GTs, and are decent at fF and PT.



Looks pretty balanced to me.

[RadiantLegend]

CAST are more than decent at been a fF

[Sychosis]

I dunno about Creas, I've seen them in use twice. And only one board has sold from my shop. They are just outclassed. Nobody wants them.

Anyway, like you said, people choose what they want. The game isn't so hard that you NEED to min/max. Being a Human and doing whatever job you want and not having to worry about being a burden to the group is great.

[Sychosis]

And PT. Really CASTs are good at everything but FT.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

You makes Casts out as some uber-race that can do everything better than any other race.


Human beats Cast at PT.
Beast beats Cast at fF.
Human is nearly as good at FG as Cast, if not just as good.
Newman beats Cast at GT, or is at least about equal.

[XDeviousX]

Crea saber outclassed? It hits two targets on a regular combo and an extra on rising/gravity strike!!! Vahra claws own, everyone not a human would like to own some, and the SVultus Sword(sp?) is amazing. There are at least 7 other creature part weapons on top of the crea weapons that are amazing and most aren't online yet but coming. There are a ton of crea weapons for goodness sake and each crea has a unlisted ability (as most special weapons do like the fans...) To say humans and newmans get nothing is silly. Weapons > beasting every block 1/2 for 1 minute and unable to heal yourself or SUV every block and 1/2 for 1 burst + Taking away extra slot on armor.

[Sychosis]

I didn't mean they were the best at everything, just a damn fine choice. First or second in most cases.

And as far as GT goes, I'm sorry but IMO I really think CAST > Newman. There isn't enough tech power in there to make use of a Newman's strong suit. CASTs and Humans are both better GTs.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

GT: Newman > Human > Cast >>>>>> Beast

Your Resta is weak already, so you nead every drop of TP you can get to provide good support.


But really, it is just a matter of preference. As long as you're not plaing a Beast in a ranged class, a Cast in a tech class, or a Newman in a melee class, it'll be good enough (and even those combinations aren't too terrible if you know what you're doing).

[Sychosis]

I guess it's just a matter of perspective, I don't see resta being a huge asset. Mainly a solo perk. A GT should be busy applying SEs and buffing/debuffing if there is no other techer.

But really:

But really, it is just a matter of preference. As long as you're not plaing a Beast in a ranged class, a Cast in a tech class, or a Newman in a melee class, it'll be good enough (and even those combinations aren't too terrible if you know what you're doing).

Beautiful http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Esufer]

On 2007-02-26 16:41, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
You makes Casts out as some uber-race that can do everything better than any other race.


*pose*

[SolomonGrundy]

Forces have the best of it in PSU. And wartecher is the best solo (perhaps the only?) solo class.

Here's what you need to solo: access to Status effect level 3, great MST, good DFP, and the abiliy to deal damage via techs and one other source.

Fortetechers have the best MST, can deal Level 4 SE, and have level 30 bullets as well. The only thing they lack is DFP, and arguably HP.

Wartecher gives up some ability with TP and techs for increased DFP, HP, and level 20 skills (which are great at taking out tech resistant mobs)

Newmans make excellent Warteckers if they focus on casting. They also make good Gunteckers and passable FiGunners.


I'm sorry, what are folks complaining about again?

[Sychosis]

On 2007-02-26 17:20, SolomonGrundy wrote:
I'm sorry, what are folks complaining about again?

Nothing, we all agreed to disagree essentially.

[Zorafim]

To anyone wanting a race specific ability, let me be the first to tell you. SUVs aren't that great. Really.

Also, I disagree about forces being primarily buffers. They're able to buff, but that doesn't mean they have to.

[ShinMaruku]

Newman's are Arshes Nei They shant be bitching. Cast Halloween and it's over.
Sadly there is no DS.. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Jibby]

excuse me?!
Forces became the source of all satan in their higher levels in PSO, and I couldn't be happier with my wartecher in PSU right now.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-02-26 19:22, Zorafim wrote:
To anyone wanting a race specific ability, let me be the first to tell you. SUVs aren't that great. Really.

Also, I disagree about forces being primarily buffers. They're able to buff, but that doesn't mean they have to.



if you CAN buff, you should. I can't tell you how much better the game is when buffed. For everyone. If you are a force, suck it up and get a yohemi rod, c rank, grind it a few times, and load up on buffs (at LEAST shifta/deband).

the Beast race ability kicks ass. No seriously. Invulnerablity for 30 seconds and a slight power boost, perfect hit, or the other nanoblasts are totally worthy.

SUV weapons...neat...but not that great. Seen 'em in action, Nuff said. Soon I'll be level 20, and can see for myself

[rvzero]

CAST Supremacy! It's what they think aswell.. and their quite right. XD

And really, Cast fF is more than decent. (Femme Casts have the highest def, and they don't lack in ATP either, also the ATA and above avarage HP...)

Also casts are probably the best PT's as the class relies more on guns and accuracy(whats the axe good for if you can't hit?)..

[Shiro_Ryuu]

well, for what its worth, although the CAST would be the best axe user, I would say that Newmans are the 2nd most suitible for that weapon. and yeah, Sega were the ones who decided that Newmans should be the physically least strong race, some of us wanted pointy ears AND blades. If you don't want us to complain about Newman's troubles, do us a favor and please don't criticize us for being non-techer newmans, as someone who's alt is a Newman Fighgunner, I've had people expecting me to heal when I can't, and criticizing me for being a Newman Hunter and all that.

[Mio]

I have a force to.
I love when they say the force is the hardest class to play.
Force equipment: Few wands and 2 rods, any weapon can accomplish anything, let's just change the spells attache to this wand.
Ranger equipment: I have to bring with me 6 Rifles, 2 Grenade Launchers, 2 Laser Cannons, 4 Twin Handguns, 10 Machineguns, 2 Shotguns
Hunter equipment: Let's try get another 50% weapon..


The hardship of playing force: Strafe, Diga, Strafe, Rabarta, Strafe, lame range Heal
The most easy class to play, the ranger: Strafe, Shotgun shot, Strafe First Person Rifle, Strafe mechgun shot, Run toward enemey place trap

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-02-27 07:31, Shiroryuu wrote:
well, for what its worth, although the CAST would be the best axe user, I would say that Newmans are the 2nd most suitible for that weapon. and yeah, Sega were the ones who decided that Newmans should be the physically least strong race, some of us wanted pointy ears AND blades. If you don't want us to complain about Newman's troubles, do us a favor and please don't criticize us for being non-techer newmans, as someone who's alt is a Newman Fighgunner, I've had people expecting me to heal when I can't, and criticizing me for being a Newman Hunter and all that.



That's because their is a trend esp in U.S. gamers that hunter or fighter classes should use power and attack things directly. I have a beast fighgunner and I switched from fortefight because although the power was impressive, I found flexibility and the accuracy boost of fighgunner made me more of a threat to enemies. I mean using S-Class sabers as a fighgunner is close to using A-Class with a stregnth boost of a fortefighter, plus I hit way more then I miss now. Hitting a lot with a great evade score won't hurt a newman hunter, esp if you buy units to boost evade.. Tactics and skill is what I like to rely on with power there to compliment my Saber's High class and damage output. I hope you use daggers and twin daggaers as I'm sure your speed/evade/accuracy make your character quite an asset on missions.

By the way, before anyone asks, I am a U.S. gamer that doesn't game like one. (Not meant to be an insult just different places play games and process things differently)

[Shiro_Ryuu]

ya, seriously, good post. finally , someone who knows that fighter =/= hulking brute. IMO fighter should = skill. simple as that. I chose fortefighter for my human cuz I like twin sabers the best but there doesn't seem to be a difference between S rank and A rank twin sabers, and it may be stronger or similar strength in the hands of a fortefighter, who uses less PP when usign PAs. especially when I grind the A rank weapons, and the S rank weapons will be tougher to grind and more likely to break.

[Hustler_One]

On 2007-02-26 16:42, XDeviousX wrote:
Vahra claws own, everyone not a human would like to own some, and the SVultus Sword(sp?)

And both of these are usable by people that are NOT humans, easier accually, because both CASTS and Beasts have more ATP than humans, where exactly is your point? Im not trying to flame, but I seriously dont see how this can even be considered a valid point.

[Tengoku]

On 2007-02-27 10:28, XDeviousX wrote:
That's because their is a trend esp in U.S. gamers that hunter or fighter classes should use power and attack things directly. I have a beast fighgunner and I switched from fortefight because although the power was impressive, I found flexibility and the accuracy boost of fighgunner made me more of a threat to enemies. I mean using S-Class sabers as a fighgunner is close to using A-Class with a stregnth boost of a fortefighter, plus I hit way more then I miss now. Hitting a lot with a great evade score won't hurt a newman hunter, esp if you buy units to boost evade.. Tactics and skill is what I like to rely on with power there to compliment my Saber's High class and damage output. I hope you use daggers and twin daggaers as I'm sure your speed/evade/accuracy make your character quite an asset on missions.
I don't think it has anything to do with being a US gamer or not, and I can't imagine how nationality would have anything to do with it. It's all about those who don't just crunch numbers and just min/max their character, but rather, learn the best way to play their class within their play style. Player skill will always save the day in this game. Those who know that manuvering and assaulting mobs from behind is easier and better will always be more valuable to their team than those who walk up and attack from the front. Things such as this is what it's all about.
By the way, before anyone asks, I am a U.S. gamer that doesn't game like one. (Not meant to be an insult just different places play games and process things differently)

Still trying to figure out where you got this idea about US gamers. I am very curious. PM me!

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-02-27 15:12, Hustler_One wrote:

On 2007-02-26 16:42, XDeviousX wrote:
Vahra claws own, everyone not a human would like to own some, and the SVultus Sword(sp?)

And both of these are usable by people that are NOT humans, easier accually, because both CASTS and Beasts have more ATP than humans, where exactly is your point? Im not trying to flame, but I seriously dont see how this can even be considered a valid point.



Creasabra, Seva Cresa, Crea Saber, Soda Crea, Cresaud, Twin Crea Dagger, Ryo-Crezashi, Aldaga Cresa, Twin Crea Saber, Alseva Cresa, Ryo-Creasabra, Crea-zashi, Daga Creasa, Crea Dagger, and Newmans also get Halarod

These are the weapons usable by humans and forces only online right now. I forgot Vahra claws and Svaltus sword were availible to all (My beast has them offline...) and my point is Casts get SUV weapons (6 of them total, at least for now) and beasts get to Nano blast, (1 of 4 types) but beasst can't switch their Nano Blast mid mission, or without spending 10k each switch, and casts can switch SUV weapons I suppose but at the cost of smoothe game play. A good amount of the Human/Newman weapons hit an extra target on basic combos and PA skill combos for as long as you own it without charging it up for a block or so. The number of weapons on that list is impressive when you look at it on a page...

[omegapirate2k]

I think everyone complains too much, personally.

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-02-27 15:35, Tengoku wrote:

On 2007-02-27 10:28, XDeviousX wrote:
That's because their is a trend esp in U.S. gamers that hunter or fighter classes should use power and attack things directly. I have a beast fighgunner and I switched from fortefight because although the power was impressive, I found flexibility and the accuracy boost of fighgunner made me more of a threat to enemies. I mean using S-Class sabers as a fighgunner is close to using A-Class with a stregnth boost of a fortefighter, plus I hit way more then I miss now. Hitting a lot with a great evade score won't hurt a newman hunter, esp if you buy units to boost evade.. Tactics and skill is what I like to rely on with power there to compliment my Saber's High class and damage output. I hope you use daggers and twin daggaers as I'm sure your speed/evade/accuracy make your character quite an asset on missions.
I don't think it has anything to do with being a US gamer or not, and I can't imagine how nationality would have anything to do with it. It's all about those who don't just crunch numbers and just min/max their character, but rather, learn the best way to play their class within their play style. Player skill will always save the day in this game. Those who know that manuvering and assaulting mobs from behind is easier and better will always be more valuable to their team than those who walk up and attack from the front. Things such as this is what it's all about.
By the way, before anyone asks, I am a U.S. gamer that doesn't game like one. (Not meant to be an insult just different places play games and process things differently)

Still trying to figure out where you got this idea about US gamers. I am very curious. PM me!

Sorry to double post but I've played online games since before they were mainstream media starting with Ultima online. Everytime I would get into a party with mostly U.S. gamers everyone acted like the fighter class of the game, no matter what they were playing!!! It was really bad on FF XI as even people playing white mages would jump into solo combat and complain about dying!! I asked a guy why he'd play a whitemage when he wanted to act like a fighter, answer: "So I could heal myself during battles.." I was even further saddened because everyone thought I was french because of my characters name (Vehdria) and I got asked to join french and european teams all the time. They would insult U.S. gamers for being bullhead brute force tactic players and I couldn't disagree sadly. Not saying other countries are better gamers, just that they have a different style over all. A German gamer is likely to play differently then an English one and so on and so forth. It's a cultural and socialogical state of things. Different cultures act differenlty and view things differently as a whole, art, movies, music, and games. Is anyone better? No. Brute force and agression can be effective when done right and utility can be waisted if you have no tactics to support them. My complaint isn't U.S. gamer mentality, just U.S. gamers that aren't effective players and can ONLY use direct force and want others to play that way too...

Long story short, I got this idea from online and table top experience with U.S. gamers over a 20 year period...

[Sharkyland]

The only thing I complain...

I make this big explosion in a swarm of enemies and it just hits only 3 of them?

---

And my force is a beast, literally. Yay for 664hp, 302tp @ lvl36, ft3. I gotta hunt for those buff parties...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sharkyland on 2007-02-27 17:05 ]</font>

[Tengoku]

On 2007-02-27 16:48, XDeviousX wrote:
Sorry to double post but I've played online games since before they were mainstream media starting with Ultima online. Everytime I would get into a party with mostly U.S. gamers everyone acted like the fighter class of the game, no matter what they were playing!!! It was really bad on FF XI as even people playing white mages would jump into solo combat and complain about dying!! I asked a guy why he'd play a whitemage when he wanted to act like a fighter, answer: "So I could heal myself during battles.." I was even further saddened because everyone thought I was french because of my characters name (Vehdria) and I got asked to join french and european teams all the time. They would insult U.S. gamers for being bullhead brute force tactic players and I couldn't disagree sadly. Not saying other countries are better gamers, just that they have a different style over all. A German gamer is likely to play differently then an English one and so on and so forth. It's a cultural and socialogical state of things. Different cultures act differenlty and view things differently as a whole, art, movies, music, and games. Is anyone better? No. Brute force and agression can be effective when done right and utility can be waisted if you have no tactics to support them. My complaint isn't U.S. gamer mentality, just U.S. gamers that aren't effective players and can ONLY use direct force and want others to play that way too...

Long story short, I got this idea from online and table top experience with U.S. gamers over a 20 year period...

Can't say I've seen the same thing. I've only been playing since Everquest (somewhat close to UO) but I haven't seen anything like you mention. I have seen my share of idiots and done more than my share of boneheaded things as well, but I still can't say I agree with your conclusions merely based on what I've seen. I've seen great players and morons of all nationalities, so I'll completely disagree with your generalizations, but I certainly won't try to change your mind. Interesting observations thought, and I thank you for clarifying your position.

[Alisha]

On 2007-02-26 14:00, XDeviousX wrote:
I see a lot of people complaining about how pso forces did this and had that, but lets be honest, pso forces became really weak later in the game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XDeviousX on 2007-02-26 14:03 ]</font>


http://darkalisha.homestead.com/files/fomarl.jpg

[imfanboy]

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/iamfanboy/foneyVgransorcerers.jpg


Seriously, was there ANY way to beat them if you were playing a fonewearl? I never managed to finish the offline mode with poor li'l Shae'lath.

[AC9breaker]

What? Are you guys serious? Forces where like most broken class back on PSO. If you guys couldn't kill a Grand Sorcer as a force then i don't understand how you can play an effective force in PSU.

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-02-27 22:02, Alisha wrote:

On 2007-02-26 14:00, XDeviousX wrote:
I see a lot of people complaining about how pso forces did this and had that, but lets be honest, pso forces became really weak later in the game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XDeviousX on 2007-02-26 14:03 ]</font>


http://darkalisha.homestead.com/files/fomarl.jpg



Compared to a hunter? I bet not, and especially not a hunter that was shifta/debanned theres no contest esp on ultimate!!! Forces weren't helpless by far but they had a huge damage drop off at later levels you cannot deny.

[Alisha]

i didnt compare myself to hunters. i played like a D&D/EQ style cleric. i could do damage comparable to a hunwearl and probally outdamage a ramarl in melee combat(rangers couldnt equip soul banish) i personally saw a damage spike with fomarl as i got higher in level not a decrease. i just kept everyone buffed/healed and debuffed monsters and instead of standing around while others did the damage i could get in there and melee too. the characters were much more varried in pso than they are in psu. you cant just make a broad statement about all forces in pso like that. fomarls and fomars had a completely different play style from fonewms and fonewearls

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-02-28 03:31, Alisha wrote:
i didnt compare myself to hunters. i played like a D&D/EQ style cleric. i could do damage comparable to a hunwearl and probally outdamage a ramarl in melee combat(rangers couldnt equip soul banish) i personally saw a damage spike with fomarl as i got higher in level not a decrease. i just kept everyone buffed/healed and debuffed monsters and instead of standing around while others did the damage i could get in there and melee too. the characters were much more varried in pso than they are in psu. you cant just make a broad statement about all forces in pso like that. fomarls and fomars had a completely different play style from fonewms and fonewearls



Forces weren't balanced in pso, never said they sukced, jut that forces on PSU are more balanced and have a lot of advantages that their pso counter parts didn't. PSO is still an amazing game, but the races/Types weren't balanced, and when I say forces "damage" declined I was speaking aboth from their techs as i did play a fomarl with decent atp esp with buff/debuff goin but that is a point i made, forces became buff/debuff healers that lost out on their tech potentials. I'll take a PSU force for their techs over a PSO force for their hunter with tech feel...

[Alisha]

in psu i wanted a healer/buffer/debuffin that derives its damage from melee. the only thing resembling that warecher is gimped to hell and at the mercy of the games mechanics.

[fay]

personally iv always felt that its shocking that everyone think forces are mainily for resta, shifta etc .
i like to be an agressive force by shooting spells at everything.
of course i dont mind doing the deband and shifta thing for people but i dont like it when people pure wait for you to heal then etc. stop being stingy and use a frigging trimate or something. ill heal you when i have time. im not gonna chase over the level for you.

other than that i think forces actually became worse in psu than then were in pso.

i always liked the whole finding new techs instead of the usage increasing the level. was such a good feeling when i found level 30 techs.
i am also one of the forces who dont like the whole thing about only being able to use techs i personally just liked having the spells i used on one pallet without switching about. sometimes i would actually go into the menu and use a spell from there if it didnt get used enough to equip it which i cant do in psu.

the main thing i thought let forces down was that you have to be precise to aim . no lock on kinda thing.
im literally everywhere trying to hit unless im close range which personally i think forces are long range.

of course there are the up parts to the forces on psu.
i love all the new techs that are about. give so much more variety to the game.
ps what does giresta do. im not realy sure about it?

there weapons have more look to them.

so personally i say there not entrirly worse but in general as my opinion i did prefer the forces in pso so much more.