A couple of questions, and the correct way to play Fortegunn

[Valvalion]

Afternoon all. Long time lurker, just signed up yesterday. Nice to meet you all.

Couple of questions to ask and a few opinions to ask for.

Is there a 'correct' way to play fortegunner? As far as i'm aware they're mainly about the status effects, however the way i'm playing at the moment is mainly with dual handguns, crossbow, and rifle. My main weapons are the dual handguns with freeze shot up to Lv. 28, and Twin Mayalee just past level 12. The way I play in a party is usually just to smack everything down with Mayalee, then go twin handguns if I want to damage, rifle if I want to level up my freeze shot, or crossbow if I want to shock everything. I'm also packing G traps incase I need to inflict status on a large group. Is this a good way to play, or should I be concentrating on something else as fortegunner?

Also, Twin Mayalee. Do I have to level that thing up to 21+ before it becomes any use? I'm trying it out myself on several enemies in S missions, and it's only making a 10 damage difference at level 2 stat effect, on whatever I inflict it on.

I don't know if it's worth it yet or not. Any examples of where it really, really comes in handy?

[CyarVictor]

Have you thought about genade launchers? If used right, you can clump enemies into a corner or hit multiple spots on large enemies and bosses. The ult PA for it is great for insta-freeze even on Bil De Vears. The downside to grenade launchers is PP costs.

Maybe have freeze and virus shot on your rifle higher.
Just useful to have since it's one of the fortegunner's staple weapons.

I mean as long as you are dealing damage and SE, you should be fine as a fortegunner. Play the way you want to.

[Itsuki]

Twin mayalee is situational, just like nearly all PAs. Against your average monster, it does damn near nothing, but against certain areas, it shines.

Also, as long as you get the job done, it doesn't really matter how you get there. Unless you're playing with people that are all "hardcore" and that crap. In the S2 missions if you get the burns/infections done where they need to be, you're doing fortegunner good. Say you're playing something like Labs S2, which will probably become one of the most popular missions. As long as you don't drag the party down and become a liability, and as long as you drop some virus traps in the last room, then you're a perfectly fine fortegunner. Though some mayalee in that last room would probably rock too.

[Valvalion]

Certainly thought about grenade launchers. At the moment I can't afford one, however that brings me up to another question:

Any point going with Deathmaker? The price is double that of Evil Twins and the difference between the two weapons is minimal.

[Itchee]

It is definetely a huge advantage to have the Rifle trifecta leveled to SE:4 (Burn/Freeze/Infect). I would attempt to start leveling those. Even if you only carry one rifle...with Burn/Infect 4 you can make a hell of a difference. The Grenade Launcher is nice to have as well simply for its knockdown...

[Akaimizu]

Twin MayaLee should change the amount of effect based on the various effects of monster defense damage, and player damage. The effect varies. Still, never underestimate debuffs, as they do make an important difference.

Whatever is differing for 1 hit, it grows wildly in multiple hits. It's why even a Level 1 SE Jellen can make the difference when used on Bill Da Veers using that Tornado move.

And yes, in general, gunners love to have at least 1 weapon, in their inventory, that can inflict SE4 Burn or Infect.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-09 09:16 ]</font>

[Carbinne]

That's pretty much 90% of the fortegunners play 90% of the time. Well, in general. As long as you pack Rifle and Twin Handgun, you've got the basic backbone of a fG's arsenal. Crossbows are really handy offhand weapons, too. Grenade Launchers come in handy in certain cases, as do other guns, but for the most part Rifles, Twins and Crossbows are some of the most common weapons.

Also, my CAST fG also suffers from Twin Mayalee doing barely nothing. Maybe someone with a Newman/Human fG can shed some light on this. As it is, the only thing I find 21+ Twin Mayalee really good for is negating Polhavora Debands (which does make me quite happy, btw).

[CyarVictor]

It's good to see that you carry traps on you, Valvalion. Your one of the few I heard or know that do that(I only know 1 other). The grenade launcher is like the Twin maylee, for certain situations; from keeping mobs clustered in a corner to flinching big guys like Jarbas. Even can be used on boss battles like De Ragon.

[Tengoku]

You're supposed to be a maintenance-free, constant output, damage dealer. By that I mean the mobility you have and the complete lack of need to close with the enemy, means the healer doesn't have to worry about you and spends the PP on the close-combat types. "Constant Damage" means you're not as worried about things like critical hits and you are always pouring out the same amount of damage from whatever perch you choose. The "correct way" to play, if there really is such a thing, is pretty close to what you seem to be doing.

Scoot n' shoot, dodge the baddies, and annoy them with SE. Sounds like you have it down.

[Akaimizu]

Rifles and Bows also sometimes form a different situational function. Some of those Kings (whose purpose is to call and heal the rest of their team) can have the time with which they need to cast the resta, reset by an impact on them. This doesn't work for everybody. Definitely Go Vahras, and a few others. Look out for them. If you can target the king quickly, they'll never get another heal off.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-03-09 09:18, Tengoku wrote:
You're supposed to be a maintenance-free, constant output, damage dealer. By that I mean the mobility you have and the complete lack of need to close with the enemy, means the healer doesn't have to worry about you and spends the PP on the close-combat types.
Scoot n' shoot, dodge the baddies, and annoy them with SE. Sounds like you have it down.



Let me add. Be very careful with this. This is not a guarranteed strategy, especially if you use Twin Handguns. I'll let you know, from experience, that Twin Handguns draw Hate better than most other weapons in the game.

S creatures are way too fast. There's no mobility given (even to a Guntecher) that can avoid their stuff. They close the distance and hit you faster than you can strafe and run. You WILL be in danger. But fortunately, you are a ForteGunner, so in half of those cases, you'll have the advantage of more hitpoints and defense. This will help you not take the pain of pursuit a bit better.

So using those Twin Gunnies may be utilitarian in places, but be very aware of the hate you draw. Monsters will use their S-level speed and vicious attacks to pounce you. So at times, you might want to lay off or go with slower shooting weapons if you need a breather.

Now, one might argue that Machine guns eventually take the hate cake, but they lack the range of Twin Handguns. With Twinnies, you can have just about any monster want you dead and dead now, from even across the room. They'll be on you in 3 seconds, best case. Less than 2, worst case. Now try running somewhere, starting from attack position, until 3 seconds are up and tell me how fast you get anywhere. Just remember, monsters have "Reeboks", "Nikes" and "Converse All Stars", and you're wearing "Buster Browns". Then slower lower rank monsters, you can pretty much keep away from.

Just keep in mind, that many S rank creatures and above completely eliminate the advantages of Mobility. Their speed pretty much brings you ability to escape or dodge down to everybody else's.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-09 09:38 ]</font>

[amtalx]

Don't forget that the shotgun is the forgotten weapon of the fortegunners arsenal. It's second to none in terms of damage output. However, you should only use this against enemies you can take a hit from. Shotguns leave you vulnerable for a long time, so use it wisely. I found that a good tactic is to stand behind the fighters (which you should be doing anyway) and punish mobs from there. Once the crowd is thinned out you can go for point blank shots. People get discouraged by the low damage and 3 shots at the beginning. Remember that ultimately you will have 5 shots and all 5 bullets will hit a single target at close range. Even on S there are a lot of creatures that will go down after 3-5 shots from a 9* shotgun (1350-1550 per shot with shifta).

Just as a side note, you may want to stick to enemies that are weaker or have high STA when wielding a shotgun. For enemies that die quickly and enemies that are hard to stick with SEs, straight damage is your friend. Plus you're a fortegunner, use you're traps for high STA enemies instead of blowing all your PP trying to get burn/infect.

[Valvalion]

Ok guys, thanks very much for the advice.

I'm going to go ahead with a grenade launcher, so i've got two more questions.

I asked in my second post in this thread whether it was worth going with Deathmakers instead of Evil Twins because of the price difference and the minimal performance difference. Can someone confirm that? I don't see why I shouldn't sell my deathmaker for Evil Twins + Grenade Launcher.

Another, would be choice of grenade PA. I've already got 2 sets of Twin Handguns with freeze bullets, one set with Twin Mayalee, a rifle with freeze and a crossbow with shock. Would it be worth going for a Grav PA? I'm thinking later on for Gaozoran's and silencing those ice bastards on Neudaiz. (Olgoemon?)

[Akaimizu]

I definitely recommend at least 1 Damage over time shot with your Twin Guns. The SEs don't hurt quite like your SE4 ones, but you'll thank yourself from the PP you save. SE4 weapons drain real quick, if you try to use them for all those enemies. Just remember, they can and will affect the majority grunts of a level, allowing you to save those SE4s for when you really need them. Plus, they status effect at a faster and higher rate.

You're doing well with Shock on Crossbow. That setup has been tested well in the field, and Shock is often a real pain for monsters. It's definitely destroying the Silence effect for how useful it is. (That is, until SEGA wisens up and makes Silence as useful as advertised) It may be, even at this time, not a bad choice to try to get the SE4 weapon to get Silence that far. It may seem SE4 delivers the only somewhat useful version of it because Silence duration is super short, and too many monsters aren't stopped by that in making techic attacks.

As for Deathmakers. Not really worth it. You're at the point to start investing more in guns that have more PP and less in attack power, because SEs become your Power. Except for Bosses. They are the sole case to break the idea of keeping high power weapons, on hand. One thing I always find myself doing is having 1 as an attack power gun and the secondary is one that lasts longer but doesn't hit as hard. The one with more PP is obviously the one I put the status effect on, which I want to spread more. Twin MayaLee have near 100% effect if your shot hits, so I often put that on the power gun with less PP. Stuff which you have to shoot a bit more, to land the effect, I put on my High PP gun. (Once I reach outside the boss. I switch them both to the best element against the boss.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-09 10:52 ]</font>

[amtalx]

Try to stay away from using the grenade launcher to inflict SEs. The rifle is better suited for things like that because of the Lvl 4 SEs they have. Grenade launchers eventually go up to Lvl 3 but they are also VERY slow to level up. If you can afford it, i would but all of the elements for the grenade launcher and work them up as needed.

[CyarVictor]

The grenade's se doens't really set off that often, but it's the knock back that really makes grenads shine. Wouldn't hurt to go ahead with the Grav shot since they tend to have higher power. You may be interested in the Ultimate PA for the auto-freeze(lasts only 10 seconds, but useful to hold most enemies at bay. never seen a Gol Dova frozen, but all other big enemies freeze even with the SE1). The down-side is pp cost. Evil twins are still good pistols. Not much of an atk difference. i mean later you can buy them since A is the highest level for twin pistols as a fortegunner so you might like to have Deathmakers evenutally, but it is not that important to upgrade from Evil twins to Deathmakers currently.

[Alisha]

why are twin guns considered a corner stone of fortegunner? in my opinion they are not a general purpose weapon. but rather something i like to use when i need burst damage that can be aimed in fps mode,or in the case of some monsters burst damage that allows for some mobility. i am a huge fan of shotguns but i am not sure how they will work out in higher ranks. but maybe as a lolbeastfortegunner i will be able to take the hits. if i only intend to use rifles for SE's should i look at yomei rifles?

[Itsuki]

On 2007-03-09 20:19, Alisha wrote:
why are twin guns considered a corner stone of fortegunner? in my opinion they are not a general purpose weapon. but rather something i like to use when i need burst damage that can be aimed in fps mode,or in the case of some monsters burst damage that allows for some mobility. i am a huge fan of shotguns but i am not sure how they will work out in higher ranks. but maybe as a lolbeastfortegunner i will be able to take the hits. if i only intend to use rifles for SE's should i look at yomei rifles?


Twin handguns are bread and butter because of their versatility. Theres nothing they are particularly bad at, and you can never really go wrong with them in almost any situation. You can pretty much get by only using twins and rifle if you REALLY wanted to.

And the general rule for rifles is:
- Kubara for looks
- 6* Youmei for general use (atleast on the jp server, they're cheap since they're a common drop and probably the best 6* rifle when grinded)
- Phantom combo for damage

Really, I think using Youmei is a fine option.

[Tengoku]

On 2007-03-09 09:24, Akaimizu wrote:
Let me add. Be very careful with this. This is not a guarranteed strategy, especially if you use Twin Handguns. I'll let you know, from experience, that Twin Handguns draw Hate better than most other weapons in the game.

S creatures are way too fast. There's no mobility given (even to a Guntecher) that can avoid their stuff. They close the distance and hit you faster than you can strafe and run. You WILL be in danger. But fortunately, you are a ForteGunner, so in half of those cases, you'll have the advantage of more hitpoints and defense. This will help you not take the pain of pursuit a bit better.

So using those Twin Gunnies may be utilitarian in places, but be very aware of the hate you draw. Monsters will use their S-level speed and vicious attacks to pounce you. So at times, you might want to lay off or go with slower shooting weapons if you need a breather.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-09 09:38 ]</font>
I have noticed this and normally use this to pull mobs off the force-user or take a single boss from a twin-boss spawn and run him around so the others are able to focus their damage on a single target instead of splitting their damage output. I'm also quite used to being pounced on and have a nice supply of 'mates at the ready. I play like I'm invisible, and pretty much do my best to let the force-users concentrate on the rest of the party.

Just my philosophy on the class. YMMV.


On 2007-03-09 20:19, Alisha wrote:
why are twin guns considered a corner stone of fortegunner?
Because they offer unparalleled mobility at all times. Twin-handguns (and single-handguns, for that matter) let you fire while on the move, something no other weapon allows.

Plus, they look muey cool, which is way more important than those silly SE things people keep talking about. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Alisha]

i think shotguns are the coolest looking guns =P

[Mio]

Tengoku you forgot to mention both Mechguns and Xbows as mobility weapons.
I'm a big mechgun user myself, loving the damage I can unleash ( 300+ dmg x hit... Very, very, very fast )
And Shotguns are great.
I don't like twin handguns because they are a in between rifles and mechguns. And I prefer instead using Rifles AND Mechguns than a in between weapon

[Tengoku]

On 2007-03-11 20:09, Mio wrote:
Tengoku you forgot to mention both Mechguns and Xbows as mobility weapons.Quite right! Thanks for catching that! I stopped using mechguns quite a while ago as I had to have a saber or something equipped, which struck me as very wrong. Now, twin-machineguns on the other hand... Mmmmm. I've always look at crossbows as force-user weapons. Completely my bias. Mayhaps when I get bored with twins I'll have to look those up.

It looks like I have more to learn. Awesome! I love ths place. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif