Ever feel like you're just "phoning it in" or not really use

[Helly]

Such is the fate of guntecher/wartecher?

I don't care about dealing big damage cause I love being supportive and all~ but when I'm always hanging near the rear mainly firing off j/z's and handgun shots trying to keep up I feel like I'm not pulling my weight. >_<

Am I doing it wrong? If weapons and technics loaded instantly as they did in PSO I'd prolly be much more at ease switching to offense mode when no one needs a heal or enemy stat lowering. >_<;

[Raysa]

My Guntecher is hella useful. He also does hell of amount of damage to High HP enemies. I use SE 4 Burn on monsters and take them down with ease. Also, people do need heals. A party with no force or a party with a Digatard will need you. I'll start stat debuffing when I get my Twin Handguns Ultimate PA. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Miyoko]

High damage output =/= good team asset. As long as you're buffing, debuffing, healing, and using everythign at your disposal, then you're doing fine.

Wartechter's aren't there to do mad damage. They don't have the stats for it. They do however, have the stats to be total tanks.

Might I ask what difficulty you're referring to? A rank and below, I can understand why you'd feel this way, but S/SS ranks, support players become much more powerful, I find...

[Siertes]

I'm sure there are different situations where every class feels somewhat useless, whether they actually are or not. Guntechers/Wartechers are great for support. If other people don't appreciate that, then screw them. You're being useful.

I feel useless it certain boss battles as a Fortegunner. Fortetechers are casting powerful spells, Fighgunners and Fortefighters are causing big, up close damage. I'm in the distance popping off rifle shots, constantly having to reposition myself to hit weak points. Our kick ass traps and SE mean nothing http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Miyoko]

You feel useless against bosses as a fortegunner? Personally, it feels as though that's where we shine... Grenades for dragons, rifles for Onmagougs... We only have to turn a little bit to reposition ourselve a lot of the time, where hunters have to run around a lot.

However, against large / miniboss type enemies whom are resistant to bullets, that's where I'll feel useless. Kog Nadds, or those guys in neudaiz... I'll toss down a trap, then just kinda chill.

[Jey]

Fortegunner feels kinda useless on Dulk Fakis :F All I can do on the second form is stand back and pewpew away at its face with a rifle or twin guns. Kinda hard to grenade something that moves that fast and doesn't stay on the ground (if that counts as 'ground'...) Then again, I'm sure all jobs feel a little angst versus the big guy.

Your "usefulness" is only as good as the PAs you have levelled, especially for gunner classes. Gunner without at least SE3? yeah you'll feel a little weak. Traps can make up for it somewhat but it's hardly cost-effective on anything lower than S-rank.

Guntechers shouldn't have too much problems with healing, with access to powerful offhand guns like xbows and kikami. SE damage is your damage too - all your guns and their SEs are your friends and bedfellows.

Wartechers aren't going to blow things away like a Fortefighter, but they have access to so many weapons. Their only "problem" is that they excel at none. Really their only weakness is that they have very limited SE access. So melee the melee-weak stuff, use that bow and kikami against those rare melee/nuke resistant things, and nuke everything else.

Iunno, hybrid jobs always have that bit of indecision of what niche(s) to fill.

[Miyoko]

Isn't that the point of a hybrid? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I personally don't want to see PSU turn into WoW, where the hybrids can do everything the pure classes can, sometimes even better. Part of the benifit to being a hybrid is knowing you can do both niches' you signed up for. Of course, the challange is, figuring out -when- to do it.

[ashley50]

On 2007-03-25 01:51, Siertes wrote:
I feel useless it certain boss battles as a Fortegunner. Fortetechers are casting powerful spells, Fighgunners and Fortefighters are causing big, up close damage. I'm in the distance popping off rifle shots, constantly having to reposition myself to hit weak points. Our kick ass traps and SE mean nothing http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


That might be Partially true...we fGs just or laways in teh background firing SE4s and hope that "IT" connects to contribute to the fight =p.

But at least we have the "safest" job.

[Raysa]

To the Original Poster: Which class are you?

[Helly]

On 2007-03-25 01:48, Miyoko wrote:
High damage output =/= good team asset. As long as you're buffing, debuffing, healing, and using everythign at your disposal, then you're doing fine.

Wartechter's aren't there to do mad damage. They don't have the stats for it. They do however, have the stats to be total tanks.

Might I ask what difficulty you're referring to? A rank and below, I can understand why you'd feel this way, but S/SS ranks, support players become much more powerful, I find...

I don't boost~only deboost cause I refuse ta carry around more then two wands on me. There's plenty of boosters out there anyways. ^_^; As for mission rank well~any of 'em. Lately I've been in S/SS but even the regular difficulties I feel kinda left behind.


On 2007-03-25 03:10, Raysa wrote:
To the Original Poster: Which class are you?

I maxed Guntecher not to long ago and am now Wartecher at the moment since I figured it was also a support type class. Also I'm a female cast.

[Akaimizu]

To a certain degree, that's what I felt as a Guntecher, at the beginning. However, that was before my character developed more. Some classes need a bit more patience before they really shine. It takes a bit of time to really develop your PAs and until you do, you are not as likely to pull off amazing individual efforts.

However, as a Hybrid, you have one amazing ability. To become a Keystone of the party. You have the ability to adequately *fill in* for whatever is missing from the party. No matter what the mixup is, very often various groups concentrate on one side of the coin or another. A force, who may have covered certain buff/debuff heal basis, often may get into a phase where they leave it alone and get into a damage mentality for a while; or the party is too outspread for one force to keep their protection on all the players. That's where you step in. You make one heck of a backup support player for which I've almost never seen a case where it doesn't come in handy, sometime in a mission.

Even a Guntecher who decides to believe that debuffs and buffs should be completely ignored, is throwing away a definite responsibility that can and will be utilized, in so many cases. Ok. Maybe not for cases where your party is way overlevelled against a certain mission Class, in which they'd utterly kill everything without any needed buff/debuff help. In those cases, you may simply keep the practice up just so that you maintain a regiment or habit in all of your playstyle. Yes, I avoid using buffs if higher level buffs are being used, so I use buffs for when I'm the only techer, and whenever the primary techers forget to do their boostings (which does happen a lot). I don't blame them though, they have a different way to fight, and haven't been as much in the practice where one feels to always constantly have buffs on. GTs need those buffs as even the SE1 of them can be enough to save their lives. Low combined DFP and MST means that if they forget to keep your buffed, they really aren't that concerned about your life and want you to do it yourself. So I spread the love when their concerns are elsewhere, and make sure I stay buffed and others who I can get to, when the buffs run dry.

Damage-wise, the Guntecher's normal best bet for Damage contribution is the Status Effects, however, we are still given weapons that do some decent damage contribution to the party, even if it in itself isn't as killer as the Forte types. It's still pretty hefty numbers for an individual monster. Of course, getting a group of monsters with a nice Damage over Time SE, is our bread and butter of damage. When you land those, you've made EVERYBODY'S fighting job a heck of a lot easier. It's still not that easy to land some SEs on big monsters. We do have weapons to easily land SEs on all the regular/smaller ones. Still, level 21+ Twin MayaLee was basically SEGA's way to say, "Sorry about that, Guntecher. Here's something you'll really love." And I do. My character's married to Twin Handguns, and this move solidified it. I start *every* battle I can, with them.

Still, there are multiple ways to really be a major help. I normally sum up the help in ways like this, and not in any particular order:

1. Damage Contribution
2. Support (healing, buff, debuffs)
3. Monster Control (monster manipulation)

I often think of all of these, at pretty much all times, when playing the GT, because for one, particularly when soloing (with your PM), you need all of these to make it through any tough level. In general, you'll utilize the mix starting with most A-class levels, and always through any S-class level. In groups, you also keep the practice as an eye on everybody's health, status, and postition (with the top right minimap) becoming a part for constant vigilance.

Even if I didn't count the Ultimate PA for Laser cannons (which have a different kind of monster control function), the GTs have primary weapons in all the guns that make among the best monster control options. That is, the stuff with the fastest attack rate. You can pull mobs off of people like nobody's business. You know how many lives you can save by pulling just enough Powerful attack,or evil Technic (High lvl Barta, Megid, etc) monsters away from some folks that are trying to fight off their chose target? They don't appreciate blind-sided attacks any more than you do. Being aware of the danger they got themselves into, you take a bit of risk yourself, to be their unsung hero for the day.

Risk vs. Reward. A big part of the thrilling life of the supporting Guntecher. And while some other classes have opportunities to do so in like kind. Knowing that you're fairly vulnerable to attack (regardless of the enemy), there's never a time which your little cat-and-mouse tactics feel safe. Unless you're playing a mission Class way too low to care about such things.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-25 15:06 ]</font>

[Miyoko]

On 2007-03-25 03:38, Helly wrote:


I don't boost~only deboost cause I refuse ta carry around more then two wands on me. There's plenty of boosters out there anyways. ^_^; As for mission rank well~any of 'em. Lately I've been in S/SS but even the regular difficulties I feel kinda left behind.




Hm, that's kind of limiting yourself, really. You could always carry around 1* wands to use as buff-sticks. Just don't keep them on your pallet -- Just switch them on, buff, then switch them off.

[NPCMook]

I always run with a Fortetecher... Buffs are worthless for me to carry http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Tengoku]

On 2007-03-25 06:11, Akaimizu wrote:
Risk vs. Reward. A big part of the thrilling life of the supporting Guntecher. And while some other classes have opportunities to do so in like kind. Knowing that you're fairly vulnerable to attack (regardless of the enemy), there's never a time which your little cat-and-mouse tactics feel safe. Unless you're playing a mission Class way too low to care about such things.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-25 06:25 ]</font>
NOW I want to go guntecher. Force + ranger? Hmm. Sounds tasty.

So, when are you typing up your guide to teching?

[ashley50]

I tried to be a GT but since I'm a CASt...my heals are err...crap. and I have no room for any offensive/defensive spells since I don't want to delete my 21+ bullets >.<

and...teh PP cost is high =/..which is also one of teh reasons I quit being a GT...

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-03-25 09:22, Tengoku wrote:
NOW I want to go guntecher. Force + ranger? Hmm. Sounds tasty.

So, when are you typing up your guide to teching?



I never felt like I wanted to reinvent the wheel. I figured the Guntecher for Guntechers Topic, on this site, would be enough. Especially since you get to see differing aspects of Guntecher from different races as well as different chosen weapon-sets. There's more than one good way to balance your equips and armor slot items, for one. Some decisions are made based on race and/or the guntecher weaponset you want to especially focus on.

My guide would basically give you one major example, which is laced with my playstyle. Yes, some aspect might be universal, but a lot may be based on my chosen weaponset affecting my playstyle choices. My Guntecher strategy is a mixed one that initially is based off of making Twin Handguns as a keystone in my strategy. (Kind of like a weaponset and style based around what puts those guns to the most utilitarian use). So I'd like to say my Twin Handguns are my base of the soup, and everything else completes the soup.

This way, not only does it work well enough, but it also completely fits my character Tynselle's mentality. Her Twin Gunnies are her security blanket and the first legitimate talent she ever discovered about herself. Of course, she'd swear those were the best things ever created.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-25 15:02 ]</font>