Guntecher's weapon selection

[Guarionex]

I know there's a guide about guntechers, and it has been useful, but I'm still kinda checking out what works for me and what fits my style.
I'm still a low level guntecher who just recently had acces to crossboys and cards, so new door are opening to find and adjust my style. So far, I'm liking my guntecher http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyway, I tried finding among threads comparisons between bows and rifles. I'm not asking which one is better, I already (kinda) know the pros and cons of each one. But I'm very inclined to bows (And bows are the very reason I actually chose to be a guntecher)

My question is for the guntechers out there: Is there an instance where the use of a rifle is better than a bow, besides personal preference? I have no trouble shooting at faster monsters with a slower weapon, and I've been considering dropping the rifle to get either...
1. Another bow with light element to replace rising shot (I'm actually tempted to just get every bow element and forget about rifle)
2. a melee weapon and a gun (for those instance where bullets are innefective. Not sure if I'd be better using my mighty lvl 10 attacks tho)
3. A third wand and a gun (I have a heal/cure wand and a shifta/zodial wand already. Perhaps a debuff wand)

[Genoa]

I'm assuming this is Guarionex: M Human lvl 28 shown on your sig. This comes to whether or not you want to use attack techs or not. I wouldn't =/
I'd have 2 wands, One for Resta/Reverser and the other for Shifta/Deband (or maybe Zodial)
A shotty is a must IMO, though many keep dubbing it as a n00b weapon >_> I could care less what they say.
Twin Handguns is nice too, seeing you S rank them as well.
Then you can either laser cannon or Rifle... Honestly I prefer the rifle slightly over the Bow, but i'm a transer, so I have no choice :< bow's still very good too though. The strife+shoot combo w/rifle is more usefull in most situations for me.
As for the combination w/your wands... i'd say a Crossbow/Mechgun. Mechguns might look like they blow, but SE3 is no joke. And please, no Ice Mech >_> get something usefull like Shock, Infection, or Burn.
This is all my opinion for guntecher.

[Guarionex]

I might as well post my weapon pallete

earth card and wand(resta/reverser)
fire xbow and wand (shifta/zodial)
lighting Twin hangun
ice shotgun
dark bow
light rifle

Usually I only use my rifle if my bow runs out of pp
I don't really want to use attack techs...
So far I'm 27 ATA away from using laser cannons, and I havent seen them used that much to have an opinion.
I havent used mechguns either... but SE3 does sound good...

[Genoa]

eh, Laser Cannons are only really really good in certain situations... Penetration is it's strongpoint... and how many enemies are lined up nice and tight? =/

I wasn't a fan of mechs at first, but they're really usefull later. The damage itself isn't too too bad when your ATP is good, but when you put a status effect on their adding damage a couple of seconds as well... it adds up (or if you shock) shocking a group by strifing can save you some PP on your resta wand.

The Cards.... well, as much as I love cards... it ends a A =/ and you get to S rank Crossbow and Mechgun... so the choice is up to you, but ... just sayin :<

As far as the rest of your pallete, it looks great, really.

[chibiLegolas]

I find that the rifle's ROF speed to help out in tight circumstances compared to the bow's slower ROF. Perticularly when you're faced with a group of multiple large HP mobs where you need to spread your SE4 as fast as you can.
The last room of Lab S2 comes to mind. I couldn't spread my SE4 fast enough and my SE would often run out while I'm still trying to stick it to the other enemies when using my long bow.

And don't forget those dam worms. They're too quick to burrow after you fire at them, but the rifle's speed again, wins big time if you plan to land a SE on them. There's also other options to deal with worms like using the ultimate BA on them or crossbow's SE3. But as far as SE at a safe distance goes, rifle's better than the bow.

But since you've stated that you don't mind using a slower weapon on fast monsters, then more power to you.

Also cause of the rifle's speed, I get to push back/minor stagger some dangerous mobs (king/shield/sword varients) quicker than I can with my bow. The more distance between me and those dam king Varhas, the better. I can't do so with the bow. They'd recover too quickly and run up to me in no time. Though, this is only works when you're faced with one at a time (solo'n) or with a group of rifle users facing the same direction.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-03-28 10:37 ]</font>

[Guarionex]

On 2007-03-27 14:15, MegamanX wrote:The Cards.... well, as much as I love cards... it ends a A =/ and you get to S rank Crossbow and Mechgun... so the choice is up to you, but ... just sayin :<
Well, yeah, in the (very) long run, I'll have access to the best mechguns, but that doesn't mean cards woul be useless for me (or at least I hope so)
But shocking monster with mechs sounds like a good idea, specially if I plan to use the UPA for the Twin Handgun eventually (and thats my weapon with shocking ability)


On 2007-03-27 14:22, chibiLegolas wrote:
Also cause of the rifle's speed, I get to push back/minor stagger some dangerous mobs (king/shield/sword varients) quicker than I can with my bow. The more distance between me and those dam king Varhas, the better.

That's a good point. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyway, I have more weapons in my fighgunner that she can actually put in the pallete swap. I just have to stop and rearrange it according the situation I'm in. If I notice that there is a weapon that I rarely use, I store it.
I guess I was just wondering if the rifle was going to be one of those weapons. But I can see better what I want for my guntecher.
Thanks a lot! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Natrokos]

Ineteresting thing about Guntecher is they have more range options then a Fortegunner....No real point to be made just an observation. I'm thinking of switching to Guntecher but I don't want to give up my awesome sabers and claws.

[Vay]

The defining factor in machineguns is the PP capacity... nothing else really matters on the weapon. Not sure if the S ranks have "additional effects" on the bullets, like adding a low chance to apply some status, or if they just look pretty... but I will tell you this: The level 21 Machine gun bullet should not be underestimated. 20% element, and a 5% increase in ATP at level 11 and 21 really makes this underused weapon shine. You won't lose anything by going with Cards over machineguns for damage, except for you can't use S rank cards.

Also, as you level more and more, you'll find yourself getting your "primary bullets" to 21 since you mostly use them, and you'll want to expand your arsenal and options. When I play my GT, I pick up cards for damage on dangerous enemies with spells that need to be dodged (Megid for Jarbas, Just about everything from Gaozorans), so I only own Light and Ice. I used to have a few more card PA's, but overwrote them after I found that I was doing a LOT of weapon switching to apply SE's on newly spawned mobs (Switch to Dualies for Twin Mayalee, then to xbow for shock or infect, THEN back to my cards...), and unless you keep the card out the entire time the bullets are in flight, they won't connect (much like what happens with Grenades). They're good weapons, just don't fit my playstyle normally.

Legollas did a good job of covering the pro's and cons of Bows and rifles... personally, if I had to use ONE bullet on either weapon, would be Dark Bow, since as fG, I have access to Virus traps, and Bow's much easier to level than the rifle, and that would give me access to lay virus on big mobs as a GT. Mine isn't quite the level I'd need though... Mainly why I stay away from the two handed weapons as a GT is because I like to have immediate access to a healing wand. Since my heals don't really do a lot, I try to be very consistent so the force in my party hardly has to worry about healing at all. GT's a whole lot of fun... I just want the pretty S rank Machine guns to come out. (Xbows as well!)

[iono]

On 2007-03-27 14:15, MegamanX wrote:
eh, Laser Cannons are only really really good in certain situations... Penetration is it's strongpoint... and how many enemies are lined up nice and tight? =/

If a person ever gets a good variety of different elements and bullets, what you said basically works for any given gun. I can think of so many different situations where one gun will work far better or far worse than the others. I keep a Laser Cannon bullet because there are some situations where it does do the most damage. After getting 29 bullets to 21+, I view every gun as "only really really good in certain situations". Variety wins if you can invest the time to level it all up.

[Genoa]

i'll give ya that =/

[Carlo210]

I'm still wondering if I should pick crossbow over win handguns as my main weapons. Crossbow PAs are a pain to level because they suck before level 21. You're stuck with one bullet for so long and do a crappy amount of damage, then you get two bullets that don't hit the target infront of you. I don't know how someone can level more than one or two crossbow PAs.
Do any of you guys level more than 2 crossbow PAs? How do you do it?
I'm not sure which path I should go down.

[CelestialBlade]

Crossbows aren't terribly hard to level, actually. And they eventually get SE3 and can shoot 3 bullets at Level 21+, so it's a journey with plenty of reward. I personally carry a Machinegun, Cards, and a Crossbow as my three offhand weapons, to match up with my three Wands.

Back to the Rifle vs. Bow thing for a sec....I utilize both. I find my Rifle is better for applying SEs since the rate of fire is faster, so I've got Burning Shot on that. But for pure damage, it's all about the Bow. Thus I put Ice and Light on it, since I seem to mainly fight Fire and Dark things. So I bust out my Rifle when I'm up against something really annoying like a Tengoug and sap their HP away at lightspeed with Burn, but for a boss, I get out my Bow and lay on the defense-ignoring hurt.

[Genoa]

crossbow levels nicely after second bullet imo =/ ... i mean, it's no skill pa, so it still takes long to level being a bullet and all... but it's not to hard to level.

And it's always wise to have diverse elements for ranged weaponry.... Helps for the area you're going into.

Now see, sega slowly gives up updates... gives us plenty of time to toy with the current new... So this is where you level whatcha got http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[iono]

On 2007-03-27 16:22, Carlo210 wrote:
I'm still wondering if I should pick crossbow over win handguns as my main weapons. Crossbow PAs are a pain to level because they suck before level 21. You're stuck with one bullet for so long and do a crappy amount of damage, then you get two bullets that don't hit the target infront of you. I don't know how someone can level more than one or two crossbow PAs.
Do any of you guys level more than 2 crossbow PAs? How do you do it?
I'm not sure which path I should go down.



I hab 6! Pretty much soloed it and more than half of that was at valley of carnage S. Once you figure out how the vanda's AI works, you can almost always line them up so the V hits 2 of them. It's like....if they're too close, inch your way closer or if they're too far apart then back up. You don't even have to watch half the time, you just line up the shot, press the button until your thumb hurts and watch TV.

In parties I think the best way is to get as close to the monster as you can. That way no one knows your crossbow is only level 11 because they never see the bullets! No actually it's just a nice way to ensure every bullet hits.

The V isn't that bad imo. I mean when you think about it, the V stays at 21 so it makes very little difference. Even at 21 you have to stay in practice of trying to get every shot to hit. 21+ crossbows are just like a shotgun, the best way to use it is from point blank and that's still true when the gun is lvl 11.

[SolomonGrundy]

There are reasons to use a rifle, so I have a one of my DOTs as a rifle (fire). It has not been mentioned here so I'll say it: killer shot as an ultimate PA. Sure, it eats up the PP, but a handful of of 6* yohemi rifles groud a decent bit will give you 1500pp to crank through.

[Jey]

re: bow vs. rifle, think about what other jobs you might level. Rifle can only be used by Guntecher and Fortegunner (and Ranger). Bow can be used by all 3 Techer jobs and Protranser. Personally, I have fire/dark on both types, along with killshot and reiseisou, but I'm spread thin for PA space.

Crossbow + Saber is wonderful for soloing. Even with lv10 skill, a GT with Rising Strike will deck most anything deckable, and you are free to pump a buncha bullets in while they're prone.

I don't use mechgun anymore because twins do ample damage with longer range. Sure it's fun to watch the big numbers fly with lv21+ Frozen Fury on a Jarba... but mechgun is so situational with the PP consumption that I hardly ever use it. And I'm an debuff junkie so the SE1 on mechs just don't cut for spread.

Generally the argument is bow vs. rifle and cards vs. crossbow. The former have ease of levelling and elemental bonuses (and defense ignore for bows) on their side - the latter take much longer to gain full use and have lesser "damage" but faster firing speed.

Personally I prefer rifles because of the faster rate of fire (and killshot is fun in Temple S/Forest S), and with a Phantom Line it can be quite nasty, but not everyone's got time to level them x.x;

[chibiLegolas]

A GT's life without crossbows is no life for me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
The crossbow's actually my main weapon. I just love it to death. Yes, leveling it is a pain, but well worth it IMO.
Already got 3 past 21 and working on my 4th.

Getting it to lvl 11 is main hurtle for me. I just go to VOC like others had said and level it up while diga is flying over my head. Or go dance with the healing Varhas (sp?) in Parum. Cause it's mobile, I can get to dodge his attacks and learn his pattern when he will heal himself.
Level 11-20 is sufficient enough to go use it in parties and you'll have to get a hang with the V shot. I got used to it and just know how to align myself between 2 enemies to know when the crosshair will highlight them to get shot. Just practice with it. It forces you to be close/mid range to get it right. Or you can run around to their side or backs to point blank them to deal.
Tip: I find that shock or freeze on crossbows works wonders in parties. So lvl 11-20 might be awkward, but it'll reach 21 in no time since the SE is so useful. You'll naturally find yourself going back to this to level it up.

[Jey]

A Cubo Upindec (the kubara 8*) is great for levelling xbow. Good PP pool and sick PP regen (I think it's 15, for fortegunner... and yeah I highly recommend going forte for levelling bullets, if you can)

I used to use Shock a lot when Denev Relics came out. Now, even S2 mobs live for seconds, so I've wandered away from that and settled for Yak Banga/Zagenga(and/or Yoga for spellcasters) for my general palette, and mainhanding a saber for "crowd control". ... I guess I can do that because I only have resta/reverse now, though.

Mayalee Prism though hahahahahahazomfg so regret not getting this PA earlier.