Force Works

[PacMan]

Hey,
I know this has been done before, but I just want
to bring it to everybodies attention again. Being a
force is hard work. Fluids are expensive and constantly running to resta, reverser, S/D every damn body is hard work. As of yesterday I am a level 103 force with techs that are all 20 and TP of almost 1400. Yet, In an ult game I will run out of TP 7 to 8 times each level and will have to restock 10 trifluids At a cost to me of 36000 mes. Now this isn't such a big number except I can't get even junk to offset the costs with greedy hunters,rangers and jackass forces running around. So I have to go offline and play alone for a while to backroll for online play. Even then though, I spend most of what I try to save in buying fluids for myself. At times I have asked for a quick loan of fluids so that I can keep on resta, S/D and raspelling. Only to be ignored and forced to go back to P2.

Now with that said I want to address all of you who complain about people not playing the way their class should. First off, we paid the same damn 50 you paid for the game and we can play it any way we fricking please. If I want to toss on a double saber and whack away for 63 damage a hit. Then that's my choice as a force and I and others like me can do just that. Let me ask you hunters this. How many times have you stopped fighting to moon atom a dead teammate of run to help a trapped force so that he doesn't die? Well if what I have seen holds true, NEVER. You keep on fighting to make sure you get whatever is dropped before you come to teh aid of your teammates. Yet you think we should always support you? Isn't YOUR JOB to play the heavy and keep the monsters off OUR backs so that we can "support" you.

[MajinSSJVegetto]

Use a lot of Rabart.
You can keep the enemies frozen and your life save while close, allowing you to be near the enemies and able to grab the items as the hunters kill enemies, but before they finish their current sword swing.

And if money is really a problem, use difluids. You may need to warp back up to town more to buy them, but it will save you a ton of money.

Also, make shortcuts that tell team members to get near you, so you R/D all of them at once, and if they aint close, they aint getting it till others run out.

If they don't resurect you, don't reverser them.


if you need money, you can also simply go to Very Hard ruins or somewhere that is easier for you to kill that drops lots of armor.

[Goza]

You probably know loads more than I do, but I had serious TP usage issues preventing me from getting through the Ruins without wanting to shoot myself.

My solution... Hildebear's Cane. Free foie that can 1 to 2 hit most everything in there on Normal. It might be totally different online, of course, but I basically have the special attack as my only physical attack button, and gifoie/barta/zonde/resta/difluid keyed up. If I were online, I'd probably swap out gifoie and barta for some support techs.

[TeamPhalanx]

Actually, PacMan is correct.

Rule #1 when FOrce is on the team: Leave ALL fluids.

Rule #2 when FOrce is on the team: Leave ALL 8+ star items (non-red) that can be sold for a good amount of meseta at the shop.

To my own defense, when a FOrce is on the team, I go out of my way to put myself between the FOrce and the enemies. And, generally, the FOrce is the ONLY one I revive on a team.

All that said, if you're needing that many trips to P2 for a stage... You're probably overdoing it with the Ra-level techs. Invest in a MAHU or some other TP stealing weapon. It doesn't help much, but it's still better than nothing.

[PacMan]

hey,
They don't hit often enough or steal nearly enough TP. On V Hard I would use a Double Saber to steal TP but now that I can't hit more than 25% of the time in ULT before I am leveled I cant do that to replenish my TP. As for over doing it with the Ra spells ,I probably do but thats so that my "team" can make short work of the monsters. If I can rap off three or 4 RA spells I can reduce HP by half and keep us rolling along. Plus who wants to use one ra spell and sit back for 6 minutes while hunters whack and whack away.

[PacMan]

hey,
They don't hit often enough or steal nearly enough TP. On V Hard I would use a Double Saber to steal TP but now that I can't hit more than 25% of the time in ULT before I am leveled I cant do that to replenish my TP. As for over doing it with the Ra spells ,I probably do but thats so that my "team" can make short work of the monsters. If I can rap off three or 4 RA spells I can reduce HP by half and keep us rolling along. Plus who wants to use one ra spell and sit back for 6 minutes while hunters whack and whack away.

[diospadre]

i try to do my part as a good hucast. i put myself between everything, use ice traps nonstop, and will stop fighting any monster im engaged with the second i see someone die. if someone is helping me out with resta ill soak up damage like a horny sponge too.

[Hamo]

Whoa there, PacMan, calm down. If you're in a game supporting hunters that don't protect you, why don't you just leave? I know that some people just don't know any better, and if I had a keyboard I would take some time and explain some of the more subtle strategies, but as it is, it's much easier to just find another game with more experienced people in it. There are tons of nice, intellegent people playing this game, and if you would take the time to look around for them you would find that they will disengage and revive you the second you die, loan/give you fluids/meseta/drops, etc, etc... Come down to Antares 8, you might find that you like it. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Hamo

[Kenks23]

On 2002-12-08 18:12, PacMan wrote:
Hey,
I know this has been done before, but I just want
to bring it to everybodies attention again. Being a
force is hard work. Fluids are expensive and constantly running to resta, reverser, S/D every damn body is hard work. As of yesterday I am a level 103 force with techs that are all 20 and TP of almost 1400. Yet, In an ult game I will run out of TP 7 to 8 times each level and will have to restock 10 trifluids At a cost to me of 36000 mes. Now this isn't such a big number except I can't get even junk to offset the costs with greedy hunters,rangers and jackass forces running around. So I have to go offline and play alone for a while to backroll for online play. Even then though, I spend most of what I try to save in buying fluids for myself. At times I have asked for a quick loan of fluids so that I can keep on resta, S/D and raspelling. Only to be ignored and forced to go back to P2.

Now with that said I want to address all of you who complain about people not playing the way their class should. First off, we paid the same damn 50 you paid for the game and we can play it any way we fricking please. If I want to toss on a double saber and whack away for 63 damage a hit. Then that's my choice as a force and I and others like me can do just that. Let me ask you hunters this. How many times have you stopped fighting to moon atom a dead teammate of run to help a trapped force so that he doesn't die? Well if what I have seen holds true, NEVER. You keep on fighting to make sure you get whatever is dropped before you come to teh aid of your teammates. Yet you think we should always support you? Isn't YOUR JOB to play the heavy and keep the monsters off OUR backs so that we can "support" you.



Well I'm a level 45 hunter and I always use moons when someone dies.

[CajunSamurai]

I've played through a total of roughly 300 levels as forces, so I know ALL about that. Life as a FO can be rough. Lucky for us though, Sonic Team has balanced things out a little in the GCN version so that we can actually do some damage with spells, for starters. Life as a FO on V1 became hell when everyone and their grandma used a friggin' Spread Needle to deal insane amounts of damage, and us pathetic FO had to hustle just to get in a hit for EXP.
So, things are better now, but it still ain't easy.

Far as expenses go, there's really not much you can do about it. It sounds like you're casting a lot of offense spells... That's good, but like mentioned previously, it may be that you're casting a lot of "ra" level spells which, of course, drain TP faster than any other.
Depending on your class, you'll wanna focus on specific levels of spells. I've only played a FOmar on the GCN PSO, so I can't make any recommendations for the other FO classes, but mid level spells work wonders for me (even that poor, underrated gifoie is great), as do low level ones. So far, my high level ra spells have been about 100 or more points weaker than gi, so I rarely use those.
So definitely find which level spells work best for your class, and stick with them.

Next, I've been a big fan of the elemental canes/staves/rods such as Indra. They do pretty pathetic damage when used as melee weapons, but they seriously boost elemental damage greatly. I get at LEAST 50 more damage when I'm using one of these elemental weapons in conjunction with the same element spells. Switch between these in battle for the maximum spell damage possible = more damage = more economical = less fluids burned = more money, etc etc.

Do EVERYTHING you can to get high level shifta, deband, jellen and zalure as soon as possible. HU and RA will be amazed at their insanely high ATP, and will often praise you and give gifts, such as spells, FO weapons and maybe even money (we all know they have plenty of green, afterall http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif).

Equip as MANY wizard/technques as you can muster; each of these boost ALL your spell levels by 1, meaning that 4 of these will make Lv26 spells MAXED. I constantly have 4 equipped and rarely unequip them.

And like I mentioned above... Non-FO WILL reward you if you play well. I'm not trying to sound like a conceited jerk here, but this happens all the time with me. A BIG part of this is simply having Lv30 S/D, and J/Z will also help GREATLY. Do whatever you can get those spells to Lv30 and you'll be treated like a king.

I'm sure you knew most of that, but... all of the above work for me, and somehow Ghaleon isn't a starving FOmar.
Lastly, it's always best to play with friends that WILL give you meseta when you're low. And avoid Vega 1 if at all possible, as it WILL slowly become just like Oberon.

[Munki]

Just one thing to add.

It isn't always the RA types that do this to you. Believe it or not, as you approach 30ish levels, all of the spell costs start to 'even' out.

My spell costs (a FOnewearl, but I don't think this means anything)
Foie29 - 41 TP
Zonde29 - 36 TP
Barta30 - 38 TP
Gifoie20 - 33 TP
Gizonde17 - 34 TP(ack so low level http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
Gibarta29 - 39 TP
Rafoie25 - 36 TP
Razonde18 - 40 TP
Rabarta17 - 38 TP

Anyway, I know that the RA levels are a bit low, but they don't go up in TP costs as quickly as the simple spells do (check out my Rafoie for example)
Also, the same goes with the Gi level spells.

Anyway, I find that as you keep going, it isn't so big a problem. The higher you get (thus more TP), it ain't so big a deal. I can usually get all the way (or most of the way) through an entire area (i.e. Caves, Mines, Forest) on ULT with only 10 difluids and 10 trifluids.

Anyway, just wanted to point out that as you get higher, TP costs start to get much closer together.

[rena-ko]

.../technique ? wouldnt .../mind be a better slot-item to equip when you have trouble with TP?

(oh... *gets excited and wants to play ep1&2 right now* *sigh*...)

edit:
since i'll also play as RAcaseal, i'll keep 10 tri- and difluids with me (as racaseal) and if the team-force helps me to save trimates, then i'll support him/her with TP as well. why not?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2002-12-09 02:42 ]</font>

[Rhete]

On 2002-12-08 18:12, PacMan wrote:

How many times have you stopped fighting to moon atom a dead teammate of run to help a trapped force so that he doesn't die? Well if what I have seen holds true, NEVER.


Stop playing on Vega

[Armok]

Heres wat to do

Dont heal them

Simple

Just run into room and razonta all foes then check all boxs and grab all mestas and rare items before them dum humars (who have resta anyway)

Hucast have high enough hp and def to cope once shiftered.

Dont be taken advantage of by ppl

[CajunSamurai]

.../technique ? wouldnt .../mind be a better slot-item to equip when you have trouble with TP?You have a point, but I greatly prefer higher level spells over slightly higher TP. And besides, unless you find god/minds (which aren't too common), no other mind units would do you too much good, at least compared to the wonderous /technique units.

And that's very true about the spells becoming more even at high levels! I had forgotten, guess I'm still too used to the Dreamcast versions cruel ways. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[DirewolfX]

You have a point, but I greatly prefer higher level spells over slightly higher TP. And besides, unless you find god/minds (which aren't too common), no other mind units would do you too much good, at least compared to the wonderous /technique units.


Pinkal ID, Caves V. Hard, Nar Lillies--drop them all the time. Play the Addicting Food quest in offline single player. There are quite a lot of Poison Lillies... and then there's a room in C2 with six Lillies at once. TP up and down there and you will find a Nar Lilly in no time.

My plan is to keep the God/Minds equipped until I can max out my MST w/o them (from Mats and Mags)... then switch over to technique series and eventually to DFP/HP units.

I am currently a Level 54 FOnewearl with over 1400 TP and I have absolutely no trouble with TP or fluids. Oh, and I rarely use my Trifluids... I stick to the Difluids.

[Jae]

1) Playing offline to get Meseta is a fact of life. I have to do it all the time since I usually just stand there while people raid the box rooms. Where there is no Force around, people always look to me for s+d, resta, etc.

2) You're playing with the wrong people. Plenty of people I play with always leave the Fluids for the FOs. The only time I pick up Fluids is if I see the FOs look and leave them. That's when it's fair game.

3) Again, many of the teams I've been on, the FOs have 'rescue' priority. If FOs are getting mobbed, it's usually first instinct to break away from the fray, give them a quick resta, and hack/slash an escape route for them.

4) I try moon everybody, even if there's a Force around. Gee, that sounded funny! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Moons aren't expensive, and you can always go back for more later.

Someone else said it best. STOP PLAYING ON VEGA! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif In my experience, the Antares 8 night crew has the most considerate and team-oriented players. The day crew is ok, but there are many more 'Vega-style' players on Antares 8 during the day. Deneb 9 night crew is ok too.

[Siegfried]

I play a RAmar who is a ranged charcter in solo play, but in multi, he's mostly a support character. S/D, Resta, Anti because my partner is a HUcast who is trying so desperately to use his Musashi(he will in three more mag levels, too. he's only level 31). But playing a support RAnger also costs quite a bit in fluids. Mayb not as much as a FOrce, but my Mag boosts my mind energy about 200 points. Difluids are key. Especially how they are more useful in higher difficulties.

[CajunSamurai]

Pinkal ID, Caves V. Hard, Nar Lillies--drop them all the time. Play the Addicting Food quest in offline single player. There are quite a lot of Poison Lillies... and then there's a room in C2 with six Lillies at once. TP up and down there and you will find a Nar Lilly in no time.Aha, thanks! Unfortunately I don't have a Pinkal, but it sounds like I might be able to make some trades for 'em. I'm a Lv114 FOmar and *I* have 1400 TP. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Annoy]

i'll keep 10 tri- and difluids with me

That's a good idea. I'm gonna have to stock up on those things.

But otherwise...36,000 Meseta isn't that bad if you play offline. Online, I'd guess it'd be a killer. Either way, don't like the people you're playing with...leave. Then if they get desperate enough to want you back. Make a deal with them. Something along the lines of:

"I get all fluid items dropped, unless another party member is in dire need of them, or I don't need them. I get the the Rare Cane type items (unless there's another Force. Then it's fair game http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif). And I'd like to make some money. At least enough to buy 10 difluids or 5 Tri fluids (depending on which one's you're using)"

Dunno...but seems to me, when people are desperate they'll do most anything to keep you there. And if they don't come back for you. Find some nicer people. At least if they do come crawling back. Take advantage of them http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Annoy on 2002-12-09 21:50 ]</font>