Old vs New school gamers

[DurakkenX]

how do you divide gamers up in terms of old and new?

From experience you can pretty much just ask which someone finds better FF6 or FF7 and that'll tell you which they are. most of the time those who answer FF7 often haven't played anything before PSX while those who answer FF6 they've played games back to at least nintendo.

But let's be honest there are even older gamers still that have played atari, intellivision, collecovision, comadore 64, and several other less known systems...

So i tend to divide gamers up by those who started with the pre-1985 systems, the 85-95 systems, and the 95+ systems.

I also don't accept non-console games before a certain time because they were more or less not games and were part of pop culture ^.^

so...how do you defin old school and new school gamers?

[Siertes]

Well I was never a big fan of dividing gamers into different groups because it just leads to arguments, but if I had to...Hmmm

Your division seems pretty logical so I would probably divide all gamers into 3 groups:

1) True Old School Gamers - These are people who were around in the earliest days of gaming and were old/mature enough to be truly involved and informed about the gaming community.

2) Classic Gamers - Those who started with early systems (Atari through SNES lets say) but were just kids at the time having fun but having no real understanding of the gaming industry.

3) New School Gamers - Anyone who started from the PSX or above. Their initial experience with gaming began when games left the 2D stage.

[Weeaboolits]

I guess I'd fall into Classic Gamers based on what Siertes said, as I started on the NES when I was little.

[Dkzero23]

On 2007-04-30 17:52, Siertes wrote:
Well I was never a big fan of dividing gamers into different groups because it just leads to arguments, but if I had to...Hmmm

Your division seems pretty logical so I would probably divide all gamers into 3 groups:

1) True Old School Gamers - These are people who were around in the earliest days of gaming and were old/mature enough to be truly involved and informed about the gaming community.

2) Classic Gamers - Those who started with early systems (Atari through SNES lets say) but were just kids at the time having fun but having no real understanding of the gaming industry.

3) New School Gamers - Anyone who started from the PSX or above. Their initial experience with gaming began when games left the 2D stage.



Agreed. I like old and new school games http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[UnderscoreX]

I started with a Sega Master System and Alex Kidd, fun times.

[Solstis]

Wait. There were a lot of classic, great PC games, though a lot of them were also on consoles, I think.

Monkey Island series, Star Controls I and II.

Still, Siertes has a pretty good system there. I was pretty young when all this NES and whatnot was going on, but I did play games.

[Retehi]

http://www.juegomania.org/ESWAT:%2BCity%2BUnder%2BSiege/fotos/genesis/0/245_c/Caratula%2BESWAT:%2BCity%2BUnder%2BSiege.jpg

[DizzyDi]

On 2007-04-30 18:19, Retehi wrote:
http://www.juegomania.org/ESWAT:%2BCity%2BUnder%2BSiege/fotos/genesis/0/245_c/Caratula%2BESWAT:%2BCity%2BUnder%2BSiege.jpg


OYEA? Well how about SUMMATHIS!
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/3/30/250px-TurtlesInTimeSNES.jpg

[Weeaboolits]

http://www.stageselect.com/images/picviewNEW.asp?force=1&MaxX=200&pictype=game&picid=121

[Sinue_v2]

Pre-School Gamers - Gamer's who's console of choice was a university mainframe.

Ancient-School Gamers - Gamer's from the Atari/Commodore/Pong era.

Old-School Gamers - Gamers from the 8-16 bit generation.

New-School Gamers - Gamers from the 32 - 128 bit generation.

Newb-School Gamers - Gamers from the current generation.


I also don't accept non-console games before a certain time because they were more or less not games and were part of pop culture ^.^

Computer games were often every bit as popular in the ancient school as the home console games were, but it was the arcades which were king. Many early games from this time period influence future PC and Console titles alike. Ultima, being one example of a highly influential title. Though you have to remember that this time, most games were sold on 5 1/2 disks sealed in zip-lock baggies and folders. There really wasn't much in the way of copy-protection that you couldn't Xerox off (which was easy, since alot of people played in the office. Remember the "Boss Key" from some games anyone?) - so reliable penetration numbers are hard to come by due to rampant piracy.

In the Old School generations, PC gaming grew in poplarity. Titles like King's Quest and Monkey Island sold well over a million copies, which are decent numbers even for today - despite a PC market which was roughly 1/5th of todays market. Companies like Sierra pushed the boundries of PC multimedia - creating some of the first CD-based games, EGA, VGA, and S-VGA games. I still have several brochures advertising sound cards that Sierra would pimp out to their customers, which helped push the demand for music composition in games. Many franchises from this era became popular gaming icons, such as DOOM, Duke Nukem, Sim City, Civilization, Test Drive, Elder Scrolls, ect. Many legendary gaming designers got their start in this period, like Will Wright, Peter Molyneux, Cliffy B, Tim Shaffer, and John Carmak.

Popular PC games were often ported to consoles, just as much as popular console games were ported to PC. King's Quest V (NES), King's Quest (SMS), Sim City (SNES), Willy Beamish (Sega CD), DOOM (32x), WolfenStein 3D (SNES), Manic Mansion (NES), ect.

There weren't as many port from PC to console in the 32-bit generation, because with the advent of upgradable 3D accelerator cards and more powerful CPU's, PC's left consoles far behind in the dust. The PSX was being emulated a mere 2 years after it was first launched. Imagine someone trying to emulate a 360 by this fall.

However there were a lot of console ports to the PC, which tends to give rise to the current situation - whereas home PC's are everywhere you look now and the current generation of PC gamers were raised partially on console ports.

And hey... what can I say... while everyone else was out there playing Mario III, I was crawling dungeons online in Shadow of Yeseberus. While other kids were constantly pressing "Reset" on their NES, I was adjusting IRQ's and EMS Memory. I had a great time, moreso than I did on consoles of the day. I wouldn't trade my Commander Keen for Mario, and honestly, I feel a LOT of you from that time period really missed out.

http://www.gametective.de/images/screenshots/thumbs/lslitlotll_1267_lslfront75.jpg

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-04-30 18:53 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-04-30 19:13 ]</font>

[DurakkenX]

Personally I prefer PC gaming with certain types of games and Consoles with others and arcades with others. Even though they are pretty much all pretty interchangeable now days. I personally have an odd gaming background as I was born in 85, but was always 5-10 years behind the current gaming age, plus all the computer games that i played came from pre-1985 until the PSX and N64... and then I didn't get a PC to run current games on until 2 or 3 years ago. So yeah >.>

Also, a lot of people ended up getting NES/Genesis/SNES, but that's not to say they are old school gamers since a lot of people had it or played it but I wouldn't consider a majority of people gamers...

[Weeaboolits]

Same goes for me, I was born in '88 but grew up on NES games, though my cousin had a SNES, so I got to play Mario Kart.

[Tykwa]

I think ive played/seen pac-man in an old pizza hut in 95 i played


Console History

My dad bought a NES in 94 til around 96, I was born in 92, I remeber my dad and me playing mario
97 we had an old atari and one tank game thing, we sold it that year and
98 I THINK we bought a ps here and I was understanding games MUCH better,(know what I was doing)
00 sold PS, had a DC and played pso
DC broke july,
01-02 bought xbox ( when it came out idk )
played games
03sold xbox 2 months b4 360 came out
GOT HIGHSPEED WOO!
got a 360 whenever it came out, hard times came had to sell it,
06-7 bought another on my own this christmas and supported internet though CD sales
360 borke two months l8r
got back from repair one months l8r broke again back in repair...
__________________________________________________ ___

PC History

We had some crappy apple computer at school 95ish and microsft had minesweeper on the computers although I didnt know how to play it ( too young ) still never could win
97 got a BDA computer had games like Quake1 (2), and crimson skies
99 got Quake 3
00 got unreal tournament Red-Faction ( awesome )
01 still playing on RF
03 lost RF disk ;(
04 got games like CS:S HL2 Garry's modfirst of the year got WoW whenever it came out
06 WoW'n quit at x-mas
07 not much
_______________________________________


Most of these times are unacurate but the order is right


______
-Tykwa|
``````



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tykwa on 2007-04-30 19:51 ]</font>

[Kent]

On 2007-04-30 17:38, DurakkenX wrote:
how do you divide gamers up in terms of old and new?

From experience you can pretty much just ask which someone finds better FF6 or FF7 and that'll tell you which they are. most of the time those who answer FF7 often haven't played anything before PSX while those who answer FF6 they've played games back to at least nintendo.

I grew up on NES and Genesis. Gunstar Heroes, ftw.

I prefer FFVII over FFVI (or "FFIII" as it was wrongfully called, back in the day).

"Often" may not cut it. I managed to almost play through all of FFVI, back in the day, but it was just too boring at the time, to hold my attention. It's really nowhere near as great as people say it is.

On the other hand, a close friend of mine never owned a system before the N64 started to die down, and loves the hell out of FFVI... She's nowhere near "old-school."

It could be that we're just the exception to the generalization, but I really don't think this generalization is anywhere near accurate. :/

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2007-04-30 17:38, DurakkenX wrote:
From experience you can pretty much just ask which someone finds better FF6 or FF7 and that'll tell you which they are. most of the time those who answer FF7 often haven't played anything before PSX while those who answer FF6 they've played games back to at least nintendo.


Now see, I got my start on the Atari, but I just can't take Final Fantasy VI (I made it to the final dungeon, and just decided I couldn't take the gameplay anymore-- I will never finish it). Final Fantasy VII, on the other hand, I kept going back to for years.

Figure that one out.

[Nitro Vordex]

My first system was a Sega Genesis, with the 6-pak(Sonic, Shinobi, Golden Axe [2?], Streets of rage, a racing game I believe, and one more I can't think of), and that was the time I became a Sega Fanboy. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif I am a Sonic Freak and my goal in life from Sonic 3 & Knuckles on was to play and beat every sonic game evar made. Still is too.

I have owned:
NES
SNES
Sega Genesis
Nintendo 64
Sega Dreamcast

Notice how there isin't any Sony things in there. That's because with the crappy third party games wide library of games they had, I didn't even WANT to play it. I managed to see past the "joys" of graphics and focus on the gameplay.*cough cough PS3 cough*
I admit, I do look forward to MGS4 and DMC4 though.

Seriously, being able to see your character's eye twitch will NOT help you beat the boss who is six times your height brandishing a 40-foot sword.

I still hook up my Genesis and play Sonic3 & Knuckles, just to go Hyper Sonic. Debug Mode is bitchin' too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif .

Simply put,
Gameplay>_ Graphics.
*put signs together*

[Dkzero23]

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5813/chfbro1ae1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Genoa]

The game that became Old faster than any game I can remember as of right now, must be
http://www.ffnet.org/images/thumb/final_fantasy_12_box_art.jpg
oh wait, when we're talking about the good ones that are actually old by by time, not by quality.... hmm, in that case i'd have to say
http://www.n-philes.com/games/SNES/SNES_starfox/star_fox_snes.jpg
sadly, I didn't start gaming till I was 4, and this was out http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif so this was my first game, a good choice I must say.

[Aralia]

Born in 87, gamed on Atari before the 90's.
Yes, I remember the 80's, yes I knew what I was playing and how it'd effect the world.
I can't explain how but I managed to comprehend all of it when I was little.

Old school- Those who enjoyed (as in played, understood, and had the mental state to realie what a video game was) the oldest consoles andarcade games (calico vision, atari 2600, generally everything prior to NES. *these people hear "mario bros." and think of the 1 on 1 game in which you killed enemies to collect coins.*
Retro- Those who started with NES or sega genesis.
Classic- SuperNES -> just before 3-d games. (virtural boy not included)
New school- 3-d games (basically the psx -> present.)
baby gamers- Those who are beginning gaming with the "next gen" systems (wii, 360, ps3)

Within a couple years these terms will be changed on a general acceptance as SNES is almost "old school-worthy" IMO, SNES will always be a classic though.

I'd classify myself under the old-school gamers category since even to this day my definition of a mario game is simply killing turtles and spikeys, and a pow box is generally the first image in my mind when you mention mario. =p
+ I played ET back in the day, and even at like 2 years old I had sense enough to stop.
"Atari 2600 smurfs FTW!"

http://bluebuddies.com/gallery/Atari_2600_Smurf_Rescue_In_Gargamel_Castle/jpg/Smurfs_Videogames_Atari_2600_Smurf_Rescue_NTSC_Box .jpg
Oooooh yeah... pre-mario/pitfall goodness.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aralia on 2007-05-01 02:06 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

I still associate Mario with the NES platformer - though my first encounter with him involved jumping over barrels and climbing scaffolding in order to beat up a gorilla. My first console was a Sears 6-in-1 Pong/Breakout machine. After that, we got the Texas Instruments 99/4A... so my gaming truely began with Donkey Kong, Q-Bert, Hunt the Wompus, Parsec, and Space Invaders among others.

[Blitzkommando]

I suppose I have one of the stranger gaming 'histories'. I had my own computer (a hand-me-down of my dad's) back since... well, I started with Windows 3.11 with it, so you can probably go from there. I started with a limited repertoire of experience with games until around the release of Windows 98 at which point I started playing a handful of racing games as well as Sim City 2000. It was 1999 however that I really started getting into gaming.

I moved to Florida that year and recieved a GameBoy Color, my first game system. I started with two of the best games ever: Super Mario Bros. (Deluxe) and Tetris DX. I played those to death at which point I got sucked into the Pocket Monster frenzy with Blue version. Meanwhile I had also been pulled into Half-Life and related games for PC along with Age of Empires II and expansion. A few years pass and I've nearly 500 games/mods for PC (Not all installed and some will never be installed again, such as Jurassic Park for Windows 3.0) and likely 250 for all my consoles and GameBoys/DS combined, a great deal of which I purchased on a whim due to their exceedingly low price (most recent is Tetris Worlds for PC at $1.98).

While a lot of other kids were growing up on the consoles, I grew up in the woods behind my house building forts from wood and lumber back there using tools we found abandoned in the woods as well. I have to say, I had a complete blast growing up doing that and don't regret one bit that I didn't get my SNES until after my N64 in 2000 at 13. While games can be quite fun, I feel getting outside and spending as little time on the consoles and computer before that age is more important, based on my own experience. Sure I was wowed by friends talking about GoldenEye when it first came out in 1997 and about how much fun they had "taking each other out" in multiplayer (That was a time before 'owned' or 'pwned' got into my, or my friends' vocabularies).

Still, I hold my roots to PC gaming as I have been playing PC games since before likely most people my age had even touched a computer. Another reason is the customizability and the fact I'm playing games on a system I built with my own hands rather than purchased pre-built like a console. I find the learning experience of that, and the joy of seeing something I built myself working just adds to the enjoyment of gaming on a PC.

Am I a classic gamer? I do play some of the classics from Super Mario Bros., to Kirby Super Star, to Chex Quest and Wolfenstein 3D (which is actually my first game memory, of my father playing it back when it was new in 1992). But I also love my modern games like STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl, Half-Life 2 [and mods/episodes], UT2004, and Test Drive Unlimited. So, what does that make me? I enjoy all of those for their own reasons and at their own times. I've found myself gradually falling out of console gaming and to my roots. I'm not sure how to classify myself simply because of my strange gaming history where I started at a much older age than most people into gaming my age, and it was by choice not by parents not allowing it.

I'll just leave it at that I still enjoy a good thrashing in Doom II but also pop in the Test Drive Unlimited DVD and race away in the beautifully rendered world of Oahu.

[amtalx]

On 2007-04-30 17:38, DurakkenX wrote:
I also don't accept non-console games before a certain time because they were more or less not games and were part of pop culture ^.^


Do you mean some of the first arcade games like Pong or the older PC games like Ultima...or both?

[DurakkenX]

i mean older arcade games that aren't really games, more like the beginnings of functions of games. There are a few that are like this but i can't remember their names...but I'd consider a game where you align a cannon to destroy buildings using a gravity equation not really a game...

[Sinue_v2]

EGA Bomb, Gorrillas, and Scourched Earth > DurakkenX

These games were only the father of a popular little title called WORMS - and the resemblance is still rather uncanny.

I think you're mixing up the definition of a game with your own personal standards, and not knowing where the two points diverge.

Don't like em? Too simple? Poor graphics? So don't play it... but it's still a game, reguardless of what your opinion of it is.


more like the beginnings of functions of games. There are a few that are like this but i can't remember their names...

No... the beginnings of a funtion of a game would be like a random number generator. They used to use these on university mainframes when they'd play Dungeons & Dragons. Sure you could MAKE a game out of it... but it wasn't a game itself. It had no goal, no motivation, and no point other than what the player assigned to it.

That is a function of a game, since random number generators are still used today in many games to calcuate how much damage you do, or if you even hit.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-05-01 06:34 ]</font>

[amtalx]

On 2007-05-01 06:02, DurakkenX wrote:
i mean older arcade games that aren't really games, more like the beginnings of functions of games. There are a few that are like this but i can't remember their names...but I'd consider a game where you align a cannon to destroy buildings using a gravity equation not really a game...



I would still consider that a game. Its not a far reach from the first platformers where the only things involved were falling objects and a gravity functions to calculate your jumping distance.

[Nai_Calus]

So what if you like both FFVI and VII? XP Story/character-wise, mind you, I prefer VI, but VII had chocobo breeding/racing. Graphics are hard to say one is 'better'. VI is probably more polished, but it's really dependent on what you like.

I dunno where I'd be. When I was younger I'd play stuff like Oregon Trail on the Apple IIes at school, NES and Genesis games at the house of the person mom had doing daycare for me in the early 90s. Never owned an 8 or 16-bit console, though, never managed to convince mom to get me one and never got an allowance to save up so I could buy one.

We finally got a computer in 1996 and I finally was able to indulge my desire for games. It came with Sim City 2000 and I was able before too long to finally pester my mother into actually buying a game: Myst, and later Riven. Those were good times. And then I learned via the Sailor Moon community, since there were some Sailor Moon games on 16-bit consoles in Japan, of emulators and ROMs. My first RPG was the fan translation of Sailor Moon: Another Story. XD (Mock if you will, but I loved it at the time and it's the game that got me into RPGs) And then from there on the recommendation of friends I moved on to things like Megaman and real RPGs like FFVI and Chrono Trigger. Didn't get a console until like... 2000 when I finally got a PSX. (Ahh, fond memories of using the swap trick to play import DDR games... Those were the days.)

So I'm all over the place, I guess. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif (Games I've played recently/am playing now include things like FFVI, PSIV, Marathon, PSU and Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Go figure.)

Which is why I don't think much of trying to divide things up and label them. I think a lot of the times the 8 and 16-bit generation games were better than today's games, but I certainly can't have nostalgia for the 'good old days' because I wasn't playing back then even when I wanted to. XD Nor do I think all of today's games are bad or uninspired or whatever. If the game's good, who cares when it was made? If people like games, who cares when they played them? If a kid goes out and buys FFVI Advance and loves it and wants more games like that and finds them, it doesn't make them a classic gamer since they started during this generation of consoles, but they've certainly developed an appreciation for the older games, haven't they?

Thus. Time divisions = useless. (Hell, I used to live near a mini golf joint with an arcade. The two things I loved playing the most were DDR and Asteroids. Damned machine was probably older than I was. Didn't keep me from liking it.)

[ABDUR101]

I started on the Atari, I owned one and my oldest sister had one at her house, and DAMN was it fun playing those aircraft dogfighting games(with the planes and ships in different scenarios). Had a nifty UFO game too, you'd shoot down on turrets, all the while they'd try and take out your UFO's.

It moved on from there; after the Atari, when I got an NES, thats when I started getting into industry info, keeping track of companies releasing what games, etc. By the time the SNES and Genesis were released I was well into keeping on track of what was what, keeping my eyes peeled at the arcade at the local mall to see what was getting released there and hoping it would hit the consoles.(Owning both a Genesis and a SNES was a boon at the time!)

[Sinue_v2]

Nor do I think all of today's games are bad or uninspired or whatever

True.

A lot of people have their nostalgia for the past cloud their judgement when playing newer games. There's a lot of games from the PSX era and up which just simply couldn't be done, or done nearly as well, on older hardware. Games like SPORE, or Ninja Gaiden, or even Seaman. Yet at the same time, I see games like Trauma Center getting heaped with praise for being original, when it's more or less the same thing as Life and Death - a surgery simulation for the PC from back in the early 90's. (No offence to Trauma Center, it's a great game, but not really that original)

[doubleEXP]

I'm 36. I started playing video games at Nathan's Hotdogs. They had pre-video games (light/flicker/plastic trigger games like Sea Wolf) plus 'real' video games like Pong and Video Tennis, etc.

Then we got an Atari Video Computer System (the Atari VCS, much later known as the Atari 2600). We were the first family on the block with Atari. Kids from the block would stand outside my house and chant "Vi-de-o, VI-DE-O!" until I let them in to play. We had Combat, Air-Sea Battle, Surround and other first-gen Atari carts. Been playing video games ever since.

Currently playing Oblivion on my x360. Its amazing how far things have come. But, in a way (and I credit Sinue for reminding me of this) the parsed text games of the early 80's were just as advanced, game-play wise. I could 'do' almost anything in Zork or Deadline or Suspended or any of the classic Infocom text adventures. I just couldn't 'see it' in glorious high-res. You would read those games. But, in a way, since the game 'painted' an image in your imagination, it was higher than high res. It was like unlimited res, since your imagination and real life will always be higher res than anything on a screen. If that makes any sense at all, which I'm guessing it doesn't, to most people anyway.

Still, old school as I am (though not so old school that I ever played Space War on a mainframe or anything like that) I love modern gaming.

I count PSO and Oblivion and Jet Set Radio and ICO amongst my favorites of all time, right up there with Star Raiders, Ultima III, Asteroids, Tempest, and Wizard of Wor.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: doubleEXP on 2007-05-01 12:36 ]</font>

[opaopajr]

you're a paleogamer if you remember:

calibrating the joystick with dials on the peripheral.

those Electric Company magazine program scripts -- and did them.

that the original Asteroids only used buttons, no joystick.

when paddles were cool.

text based RPGs were the shizznit.

5"1/4 floppies were an improvement over magnetic tape.

-----------------------
add your own! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[doubleEXP]

On 2007-05-03 03:32, opaopajr wrote:
you're a paleogamer if you remember:

calibrating the joystick with dials on the peripheral.

those Electric Company magazine program scripts -- and did them.

that the original Asteroids only used buttons, no joystick.

when paddles were cool.

text based RPGs were the shizznit.

5"1/4 floppies were an improvement over magnetic tape.

-----------------------
add your own! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



Hehe.

I can relate to most of that.

[DikkyRay]

Allright, im a little wierd when it comes to this
Old school
As people have said, i would say any system up to Nintendo64,PSX, or Saturn
New School
Obviously anything that isnt under old school
Now heres where i get iffy
Classic Games
Now, these are what I THINK. i dont want any "Those are not classics, those are new. Blahblahblah is a classic, not what you said. Your penis is tiny."
Any game i play that feels so fun playing it, regardless of graphics or w/e is a classic. Just the other day i was playing Golden Sun, look at when it was made. 2001. I said aloud "Holy Shit!" The game is almost 6 years old! Same goes with Fire Emblem. 2003(4?)! When did these great games all of a sudden get old?
Now, its easy to tell for say, a PSX/Saturn/64 game is old because of graphics. But i still play those because of their awesomeness
PSO-Perhaps the greatest of classics. When was the DC one out? I'll admit i was a tad too young for it. But i am sure it was a few years back

[ShadowDragon28]

First game played was "Pong" at an Arcade, and my first console i had was an Atari 2600 back when it was first out. I am pretty darn "Old School", bit I do play current gen games.

I can't afford the f*king XBox 360 or PS3 AND neither have *any* games out that even garner any intrest from me. Although I *am* interested in getting the Wii, eventually.

I've still have at least 10 PS2 games I'm still incrementally saving up to buy.... LOL.

[opaopajr]

i remember when Prince of Persia and Oregon Trail were new releases... AND considered educational! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif because dropping your character onto spikes and starving your frontier family on meager rations has always been a learning experience. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif