LOL! You think the Playstation 3 is expensive ??

[FUFME]

Nvidia's 8800 Ultra will cost a fortune


Be prepared to choke


By Charlie Demerjian: Monday 30 April 2007, 06:52

YESTERDAY WE said we would keep 8800 Ultra numbers short and sweet, but we got a little long winded.
This time we won't.

Nvidia has told OEMs that the MSRP of the Ultra is $829, and don't expect many. And they all lived happily ever after.

The end. µ


http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39265


>

[TorterraEndor]

You need a PS3 to play PS3 games

You don't need a $800 video card to play top notch PC games(Fuck, $300 is overkill)

Point?

$800+ video cards isn't even new

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195005

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TorterraEndor on 2007-04-30 18:57 ]</font>

[Weeaboolits]

I stick to consoles. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[FUFME]

On 2007-04-30 18:40, TorterraEndor wrote:
You need a PS3 to play PS3 games

You don't need a $800 video card to play top notch PC games(Fuck, $300 is overkill)

Point?

$800+ video cards isn't even new

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195005

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TorterraEndor on 2007-04-30 18:57 ]</font>


That's for AUTOCAD and design stuff, not for Gaymers

[TorterraEndor]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143085

Ok?

You still ignored the point.

[VioletSkye]

It's true the FireGL cards, as well as the Quadro cards from nvidia, are not designed with gaming in mind. They are professional cards certified to work with specific design applications (CAD, CAE, PS, Video editting, etc.)

heh, yeah the water block edition cards are usually pretty expensive. the thing is, you really don't want to trust an expensive card like that to pre-installed water blocks. if you want to use liquid cooling (or better yet phase change cooling) you should install a quality water block yourself. The same thing goes for cases also. You can get pre-installed water cooling in some cases, but that's not advised.

Sorry went off topic there. Although I can afford a PS3, I have no real reason atm to get one so I'll wait until either 1. the price drops or 2. there is actually a game I really want and can't live without. Until then I'll stick to my PC and Wii http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2007-04-30 19:24 ]</font>

[FUFME]

On 2007-04-30 19:08, TorterraEndor wrote:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143085

Ok?

You still ignored the point.



Why do you keep posting HDCP and custom Water Cooled Video cards?

Im just posting a standard NVidia Card with a base price of $830- For Game System and Home End Users.

Of corse when the BFG version of the 8800 Ultra comes out with it's fancy Water cooled bells and whistles, it will be far more then $830-

[Tykwa]

Overclock... bam buy a cheap 200 card and overclock it...
mine ( on my gamr ) can run Oblivion with the settings maxed with "make it pretty" texture pack on 1600 at 28 fps ( 6 characters ) 46 fps ( in solo ) 60 ( no action ) for 3 hours before overheating...

Open case air-cooled

[TorterraEndor]

I was hesitant to post those links, but it stands. They're still video cards, whether you use it for gaming or multimedia(Though using Windows for multimedia is pretty lol in the first place).

Plus, if you ignore the link in my first post. You'd see the real point I was getting at. A $200 video card overclocked does the job of an $800 video card. You can't buy a $100 PS2 and overclock it to a PS3(Or something bizarre like that)

Edit: Since this thread is basically saying the PS3 is cheap for gaming, when it isn't.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TorterraEndor on 2007-04-30 19:44 ]</font>

[FUFME]

Im used to buying Video cards up to twice a year, and spending up to $260-360 for a video card.

I was kinda refrencing it as the PS3 is not expensive as to when considering buying a high end video card for a PC just for playing a game.

These fancy video cards are far more expensive. It's not untill the last 2-3 years or anything after the GeForce 4 that these cards have been climbing past $400-650 just to play games on. - Only to have another Video card better come out 6 months later.

[Kent]

...As ironic (and sad) as it is, that card is probably a better investment than the PS3 is at the time being.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2007-04-30 19:05, FUFME wrote:
That's for AUTOCAD and design stuff, not for Gaymers


Having worked with AutoCAD in the Design industry, there's one thing in particular that I have to say on this.

I can't imagine what you would have to be doing at this point in time, to require a full Gigabyte of RAM on your video card. AutoCAD runs more than beautifully with only 128MB up in there. I suppose that if you were planning to keep that workstation going for the next five or six releases of AutoCAD, it may be worth your while, but all things considered, all the tower you'd need you should be able to get for a mere $800.

[Kent]

On 2007-04-30 20:20, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

On 2007-04-30 19:05, FUFME wrote:
That's for AUTOCAD and design stuff, not for Gaymers


Having worked with AutoCAD in the Design industry, there's one thing in particular that I have to say on this.

I can't imagine what you would have to be doing at this point in time, to require a full Gigabyte of RAM on your video card. AutoCAD runs more than beautifully with only 128MB up in there. I suppose that if you were planning to keep that workstation going for the next five or six releases of AutoCAD, it may be worth your while, but all things considered, all the tower you'd need you should be able to get for a mere $800.



Pretty sure it's more along the lines of, say... Running 3DS Max and Photoshop at the same time, both doing all sorts of fun stuff.

Having had to do a lot of that in my classes so far, more VRAM would be so nice to have.

[Solstis]

On 2007-04-30 20:20, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

On 2007-04-30 19:05, FUFME wrote:
That's for AUTOCAD and design stuff, not for Gaymers


Having worked with AutoCAD in the Design industry, there's one thing in particular that I have to say on this.

I can't imagine what you would have to be doing at this point in time, to require a full Gigabyte of RAM on your video card. AutoCAD runs more than beautifully with only 128MB up in there. I suppose that if you were planning to keep that workstation going for the next five or six releases of AutoCAD, it may be worth your while, but all things considered, all the tower you'd need you should be able to get for a mere $800.



Yeah, I've seen AutoCad in action, and you'd have to be running several AutoCad applications simultaneously with Parallels Desktop, or something, to require a card like that.

Curses, Kent.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2007-04-30 22:00 ]</font>

[Tykwa]

FUFME call us GAY?

[Blitzkommando]

Okay, there's a bunch of bullshit and misinformation in this topic along with a some people spewing comments out of their asses.

Firstly, CAD isn't the only use for the FireGL or Quatro cards. They're also used for digital media content creation and professional level 3D generation. Those both can take up huge amounts of videomemory and often require multiple computers for the most complex designs because of the incredible detail and resolutions being used. CAD also can use a lot of videomemory though the special methods of anti-alias which require the scene to be rendered at multiple times the final resolution to smooth out the edges. Most end users won't be doing high level 3D modeling or CAD work in their homes which is why most people have never even heard of the FireGL or Quatro series. Just like how most have forgotten Matrox and their high-end medical imaging cards used in the medical industry. They won't play games well at all, but they will do their jobs far better than the GeForce or Radeon cards.

Secondly, a $200 card (say, 8800 GTS 320MB) will not perform the same, even when overclocked, as the current top end card, the 8800 GTX. While it’s not a bad card, at resolutions above 1600x1200 (and even 1280x1024 in a number of games now, such as STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl or Half-Life 2: Episode 1) it starts to run out of memory. I’ve checked myself with my own video memory usage while playing the games and have seen it approach 400MB in Half-Life 2: Episode 1 at 1680x1050 with 4x Anti-Alias and nearly 600MB in STALKER at the same resolution with no anti-alias (as the rendering method used with full dynamic lighting is incompatible with all current anti-alias methods). That means the card would have to store texture and other video-related work in the system memory, that will be far slower than the dedicated memory on the videocard. Even the 8800 GTS 640MB suffers from this at the ultra-high resolutions such as 1920x1200 or 2560x1600. While most people don’t run at those resolutions, those resolutions are where the 8800 GTX really shines. The only time a lower end card will match in performance of an upper tier card is when the card has become completely bottlenecked by the main processor, usually at 640x480, 720x480, 800x600, or 1024x768 in some cases. The other area where the 8800 GTS cards are at a disadvantage is in the number of shaders. The GTX has 128 while the 8800 GTS cards are at 96 shaders and the 8600 GT/GTS are 32 shaders with the 8500 GT comes in at just 16 shaders. The 8800 GTX also has the advantage of a 384-bit memory interface compared to 320-bit for the 8800 GTS and 128-bit for the remainder of the 8000 series (outside of the ultra-low-end cards at 64-bit). What that means is that to equal the amount of data to be able to be processed by the memory, the clock-speeds would have to be increased proportionately to the increase in bit-width. That would be talking about 2,700MHz (5,400MHz dual-channel) for 128-bit interface, if the 8800 GTX were just at stock speeds. There’s a huge slew of reasons why a low-end card will never equal the performance of the same generation’s upper tier, but I’ve gotten the basics here. Also, keep in mind that the 8800 GTX overclocks like crazy, just like the other 8000 series cards which means they’d still have to overclock even more to equal out the performance, beyond the capability that even liquid nitrogen can provide even when taking out the factor of memory related bottlenecks.

Thirdly, and most importantly, the 8800 Ultra is a special edition overclocked version of the 8800 GTX. It has no apparent difference in architecture just a massive overclock and undoubtedly a very special cooling solution. The fact though that the article is from the Inq., quite possibly the most questionable source of tech news on the internet, is icing on the cake. They were claiming it was going to cost $1000. Guess they re-decided. In the case of the 8800 GTX versus 8800 Ultra overclocking could reach the same results because that’s all that was done by the manufacturer except that they guarantee the results. But, again, that’s no $200 taking it out, it’s a $500+ card taking it on, and even then most 8800 GTX cards probably won’t be able to handle the speed.

[ABDUR101]

Fuck that, no card is worth that much. I know a guy that recently had an 8800 GTX fry on him, and I'd be pissed if I had a $300-400 card fry on me. I'm glad I'm out of that phase where I feel the need to blow my wad on expensive hardware like that. The 'returns' of enjoyment just aren't equal to where that money could be going.

[Genoa]

I read the title to this, and I immediately thought of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25LceCPO1ys
which btw, I think everyone should watch the replies xD
anyways, on topic, wtf would you need that for anyways <_>

[Aralia]

PS3 will never be cheap. I'm upgrading my pc and moving from ps2 to pc this summer.

Anyone who wants to waste money on a ps3 for 3-4 games that will ever be good, have fun.
But unless you're rich/don't give a s***, stick to upgrading your pc's and looking into other systems. Sony's gonna realize their mistake one day and lower the prices drastically. If they don't, PS3 will be the final playstation.

[Tykwa]

Lol, there fault they OC like that...
OC takes time.

[Blitzkommando]

Apparently the 8800 Ultra has a little more than just a slight revision to it. One of the many Chinese sources over where the cards are produced has released quite a bit of interesting information about the card. Apparently it has slightly different memory that is supposedly 0.8ns latency for a maximum theoretical speed of 2,500MHz although they will come stock at 2,160MHz (compared to 1,800MHz of the GTX). The core is clocked at 612MHz (576 MHz for GTX) and shader clock of 1,500MHz (1,350MHz for GTX) and yet with both of these increases the card consumes less power under load. It should be the opposite if it was just a simple overclock, but if it is consuming less that means it's a change in architecture somewhere along the line.

Final prices have not been made either, although it was released that the cards will be released primarily (if not exclusively) through OEM builders (think Dell, Alienware, and Falcon Northwest). Prices are all over the carts though from $650 to $999. If it were to enter at $650, that's the same price that the 8800 GTX came out at last year which would be rather underwhelming pricewise. Even at $750 I could see as it will be a very limited part with very specialized pieces. Most of the people buying them will be making at least a six-figure income and purchasing their computers from boutique dealers like Falcon Northwest, Voodoo, or Commodore highly customized for probably close to the $10,000 mark. Really, that's not all surprising considering that the Intel QX6700 started out at the $1,600 mark and was targeted towards the ultra-high-end users as well. Think of it as another 7800 GTX 512. Very few people will see them outside the OEM market, if at all, and they'll be very expensive.

X-bit labs article on 8800 Ultra April, 30 (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20070430143103.html)

Google translation of said Chinese article (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffabu.beareyes.com.cn%2F2% 2Flib%2F200705%2F02%2F20070502011.htm&langpair=zh%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)

[Obscenity]

Both the Neo Geo and 3DO were introduced at a higher price point than the PS3, and that was in the early '90s. Adjusted for inflation, their cost would both have been just under a grand.

Edit: Most games for the Neo Geo also cost $100-$200 each.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Obscenity on 2007-05-02 01:39 ]</font>

[ABDUR101]

On 2007-05-02 01:34, Obscenity wrote:
Both the Neo Geo and 3DO were introduced at a higher price point than the PS3, and that was in the early '90s. Adjusted for inflation, their cost would both have been just under a grand.

Edit: Most games for the Neo Geo also cost $100-$200 each.


Though take note that neither of them lasted in the market either. Much like the beloved Jaguar; their lifespans compared to other systems was rather short.

[amtalx]

On 2007-05-02 09:58, ABDUR101 wrote:

On 2007-05-02 01:34, Obscenity wrote:
Both the Neo Geo and 3DO were introduced at a higher price point than the PS3, and that was in the early '90s. Adjusted for inflation, their cost would both have been just under a grand.

Edit: Most games for the Neo Geo also cost $100-$200 each.


Though take note that neither of them lasted in the market either. Much like the beloved Jaguar; their lifespans compared to other systems was rather short.



I like my Jaguar!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I have 11 games and only 2 of them are good...

[ShinMaruku]

Well people are selctive. They say PS3 is bad but with that 360 if you want 120gigs $170+ and with that you cna get over 150gigs on the PS3. Yup people are selctive and love to bitch nothing new.

[FUFME]

Im confused... $170- for 120gig?

For almost $200 or so you can buy a 500GIG Hard Drive now

[DurakkenX]

it's because of custom made size and such...It's actually a higher compression tech in a smaller space...

as far as PS3 vs a video card... i was thinking about buying 2 of those cards for fun ^.^

[FUFME]

Nevermind, i didnt know the PS3 used Notebook hard drives.

[VioletSkye]

Heh, just ordered 2 of these for a customer build I'll be doing:

EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130090)

SLI BABY!!!!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Rainbowlemon]

Whoaaa...there's like, pretty much nothing better than that! SLI 8800 ultra...*drool*. Probably not worth it for the price though...

I bought an 8800 gts not too long ago. Being that the dollar to pound rate at the moment is awesome, I bought it for £155 from america, which is a really good deal over here. MAN I don't regret it...its so amazing being able to play all my pc games full graphics. And it even worked on Vista, which was somewhat of an amazement.

[VioletSkye]

Heh, it should work on Vista considering the 8 series cards are the only DirectX 10 capable cards atm (until the R600 gpu arrives from ATI/AMD lol) and DirectX 10 is Vista only http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Unfortunately there are no DirectX 10 games atm (which is ok considering that SLI support for the Nvidia cards is only available for DirectX 9 atm.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2007-05-09 09:50 ]</font>

[Rainbowlemon]

Yeah, I thought that too. When I installed the drivers it was being testy though...it was the newest beta drivers that actually fixed the problems and made the card work. Woo =)

How about you personally, violet? 8800? Or waiting for R600? My friend is an AMD fanatic so he's waiting, but I'm kinda indifferent, so...

FUFME, for a console with rapidly decreasing 3rd party support, the PS3 IS expensive! Most people I know that have one have bought it mainly for the blu-ray player. But, ya' know, to each to his own....I still prefer my Wii. =)

[amtalx]

Yikes, I didn't know Sony was loosing support. I haven't really kept track because there aren't any games I'm interested in so far.

Though, I have heard bad things like Gran Turismo HD getting canceled and the single player from Warhawk was stripped (seriously, WTF!!! I wanted that game.)

[VioletSkye]

On 2007-05-09 09:57, Rainbowlemon wrote:
How about you personally, violet? 8800? Or waiting for R600? My friend is an AMD fanatic so he's waiting, but I'm kinda indifferent, so...

My current system uses 2 8800GTX's in SLI of course. Once the first R600 card is released I'll get one and try it out though. Need to be on top of whatever the latest product is if I plan to use it in builds or talk to potential customers about it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Blitzkommando]

I wonder if the price cuts that have been predicted will happen when the R600 releases. If so, having the Ultra down to $699 would certainly look far more appealing than $829.

Of course, who am I to talk. I got the 8800GTX back when it was $630. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Rainbowlemon]

On 2007-05-09 10:36, VioletSkye wrote:
My current system uses 2 8800GTX's in SLI of course. Once the first R600 card is released I'll get one and try it out though. Need to be on top of whatever the latest product is if I plan to use it in builds or talk to potential customers about it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! I'm not jealous at all, really. -.-

[FUFME]

On 2007-05-09 09:28, VioletSkye wrote:
Heh, just ordered 2 of these for a customer build I'll be doing:

EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130090)

SLI BABY!!!!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



I like one of the Newegg reviews..haha

Cons: I had to work a lot of hours to get this card

The next review mentions a 8900 w/ GDDR4 comming out, good thing you didnt buy that for yourself...holy dam that an expensive single card

[VioletSkye]

There is an 8900GTX and a 8950GTX (GX2) Dual GPU card coming out. The 8950 is said to have 2x512MB (for a total 1GB) of GDDR4 VRAM and 96 shaders per GPU for a total of 192 shader processors.

I'm looking forward to the new R600 card from ATI which will most likely be the X2800XTX2 which will obviously be a dual gpu card also. Quad Crossfire anyone http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

BTW the X2800XTX2 is said to have similar specs to the 8950. Both have 1GB total of GDDR4 VRAM, both share the same 80nm process and both have a total of 192 shader (stream) processors


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2007-05-09 18:23 ]</font>

[ShinMaruku]

On 2007-05-02 18:15, FUFME wrote:
Nevermind, i didnt know the PS3 used Notebook hard drives.




Acutally it can use any HDD you just must know what your doing.

[Sinue_v2]

it's because of custom made size and such...It's actually a higher compression tech in a smaller space...

No.. it's because they're proprietary, and they can charge however the hell much they want because you don't (currently) have any other options. Just like their $100 Wireless Network Adapter.

Just because it's custom, doesn't mean they are justified in charging an arm and a leg. Mass produced standard HDD's make a decent profit as it is, so a slight raise in price to cover the cost of retooling and manufacturing the custom drives is understandable. A $100 price rise though? Unacceptable. They're not hand crafting these things in small batches, ya know.

[omegapirate2k]

You think THAT's expensive, try buying a gold plated yacht O_o

[amtalx]

On 2007-05-10 07:13, omegapirate2k wrote:
You think THAT's expensive, try buying a gold plated yacht O_o



Chump change.

[kazuma56]

Are you sure sony is losing support from 3rd parties or just that its losing "exclusive" games? I haven't seen any major players back down from PS3 development besides Eidos (which is bringing nothing great this year either) while others are multiplatforming their games.

[McLaughlin]

Losing Third Party support means they're losing exclusives or losing the developers completely. Either one is devastating, especially when Sony is counting on those exclusives to get people to buy their console.

For instance, Capcom kicked Sony square in the sack when they announced DMC4 would also be on the 360. That's a big blow. Like the iceberg to Sony's Titanic.

[Genoa]

Buying a bottle of water at the Zoo, now THAT's expensive >_>

[Sinue_v2]

For instance, Capcom kicked Sony square in the sack when they announced DMC4 would also be on the 360. That's a big blow. Like the iceberg to Sony's Titanic.

Not necessarily. What makes or breaks a console is generally the quality and popularity of it's new games. Last generation saw several big name games from the PSX era go multiplatform or exclusive to other consoles. MGS2 was Multiplatform w/ a MGS1 remake on NGC. Resident Evil went Multiplatform w/ exclusive titles for the NGC. Medal of Honor went multiplatform. Even Crash Bandicoot, the so called "mascot" of the PSX went multiplatform. It wasn't these games which really sold the PS2 though - it was games like Devil May Cry and God of War.

On the competetors consoles, it wasn't the PSX's old properties that they gained which really sold them, it was more or less new games, such as Halo which sold them. Nintendo, of course, did sell on it's old franchises - but that's a unique case since (unlike the Xbox or PS) many people buy Nintendo products solely for Nintendo's first party offerings.

You can't judge the success of a console based on where it's most popular games from last generation are going. With the possible exception of Final Fantasy, new franchises arise which will grab people's attention and sell the console.

[kazuma56]

I agree with sinue, White Knight Story and Heavenly sword look like they will be awsome games when they are released, and so does Drake's Fortune (uncharted).

I've heard that DMC wasn't even THAT big of a game for PS2 either, with the combined total (or so i hear) of sales from all three games only hitting like 5 million... the halo series topples that record and there was only 2 games released in the "saga".