Everone with a 360 Read!!! This is our chance!!!

[zandra117]

http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2007/05/18/546058.aspx

Microsoft is asking for suggestions of what they should put on xbox live arcade.

Now is our chance to tell microsoft to put the classic PS games and PSO on XBLA.

Whos with me on this?

[Retehi]

PSO is classic?

[DizzyDi]

First successful online console game.

[Sekani]

Of all the things, PSO? Why not, um... Chrono Trigger or something?

Besides, I think Nintendo has a near monopoly on all of Sega's classic stuff for their virtual console.

[Eihwaz]

I don't think either the old PS games nor PSO fit the "pick-up-and-play" ideal that Xbox Live Arcade is about.

[Sinue_v2]

PSO is far too large to consist of a XLA game. I highly doubt they would go for it.

[Kent]

I don't know. V1 may be able to be compressed down to the 150MB limit.

...Yeah. Right. :/

I'm going to go ahead and vote for Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga. As well as that six-player X-Men Arcade game.

...And the entire collection of Wing Commander and Privateer games.

What I'd like to see, is a really good multiplayer online dungeon crawler. Kinda like Diablo, or PSO... But as of right now, I'm thinking a complete re-imagining of the Shining Soul series. Make it less basic, less mediocre, and less GBA, give it a half-dozen or so playable character classes (with male/female variants, and color choosers for different parts of the clothing, skin, and hair and such), and then a bunch of code for proceedurally-generating a lot of the content (except for, say, music and sounds), and you'll be able to fit a lot of stuff in, while keeping the file size down.

And, of course, no separate fee to play online, just the Gold membership. [i]That[i] is something I'd really like to see happen - and it's actually possible, too. Especially since, if they wanted, they could even fork out expansions for it every now and then, for 500msp a pop, and if the game doesn't suck, people would actually buy it.

What else... Oh, right.

Professionally-developed Dreamcast and Saturn emulators. You know, so you can just pop in your old game disc, and start playing your older Saturn/Dreamcast games, without having to own the now-defunct systems.

It'd be great to play, say, Virtual On or NiGHTs or Shining the Holy Ark or Panzer Dragoon Saga on my 360... Especially since my Saturn isn't in the greatest shape, any more.

[DurakkenX]

Gauntlet: Legends or Legacy...i forget the subtitle... used to play it at the arcade a lot a long time ago... MvC2, SvC2, KoF... PuzzleFighter... just about any classic arcade fighting game would be nice...

personally i think it'd be nice if they had actual good games that you could play like nintendo has. So far all I've seen on X-box Live is crap...i'd like good games. Hell why not strike up a deal with Square and get them to release all the old school FF and DW games with a bit of revamped graphics and engines...

[McLaughlin]

I'd like to see the arcade version of Gauntlet: Dark Legacy. It's a good hack 'n slash, and they'd likely be able to fit it in anyway.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

On 2007-05-20 20:08, DurakkenX wrote:
Gauntlet: Legends or Legacy...i forget the subtitle... used to play it at the arcade a lot a long time ago... MvC2, SvC2, KoF... PuzzleFighter... just about any classic arcade fighting game would be nice...

Puzzle Fighter is coming:
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=139878&forum=9

Adding backwards compat. support for the fighting games that were released on Xbox is always an option like they have with finally getting around to including SF:Anniversary Collection and probably should eventually for something like Guilty Gear X2#Reload.

[NPCMook]

is no one going to say it?...
GOLDEN EYE!
PERFECT DARK!

I'd love to see those 2 on XBL... but that may not happen since you know they were Nintendo Exclusives =

[Weeaboolits]

I don't have a 360, but I still demand that it have Gunstar if it doesn't already.

[Kent]

If it got Gunstar Heroes, I'd buy it again.

That'd be the third system I have the original game on. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[edit] Feck, how could I forget?

The Arcade needs Guardian Heroes.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kent on 2007-05-20 20:27 ]</font>

[Umberger]

I would love to see Gauntlet Legends/Dark Legacy. They were highly addictive all-nighter type games. =p

Other than those, I really don't have any XBLA desires.

[ABDUR101]

Really, the best game so far on LIVE Arcade has been Castlevania:SoTN. Everything else is just "..huh..hmm...not sure if I should bother spending money on this..."

I highly doubt they'll add something thats going to take too much effort to emulate or scale to fit within the LIVE download standards they've now set(and raised from previous limitations). As for what I'd like to see, really, I'm not sure. Beyond Oasis was a pretty fun RPG from what I remember from the Genesis.

[Sinue_v2]

I like how alot of people on there seem to be advocating the return of some classic PC games.

Viva la Commander Keen!

Honestly, it makes sence. Nintendo has a huge warehouse full of console franchises to draw upon from multiple systems. Sony isn't really a factor at this point, but they do have the online store you can buy PSX games from. Microsoft has a rich vein of fairly untapped potential with classic PC games they could licence from various PC game manufacturers they already have strong ties with.

[Eihwaz]

On 2007-05-20 19:51, Kent wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and vote for Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga. As well as that six-player X-Men Arcade game.


Didn't they already say something about releasing Ikaruga on Xbox Live Arcade? I seem to recall reading something along those lines, somewhere...

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Bomberman, probably not a 10 player version, but some sort of original, classic Bomberman. Online multiplayer play, plenty of fun there.

Also maybe Shadowrun before they remake that into something drastically different from the original as well.

[Kent]

On 2007-05-21 01:55, Eihwaz wrote:

On 2007-05-20 19:51, Kent wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and vote for Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga. As well as that six-player X-Men Arcade game.


Didn't they already say something about releasing Ikaruga on Xbox Live Arcade? I seem to recall reading something along those lines, somewhere...



It appeared on Xbox Live's PartnerNet briefly, but has since disappeared... I really want to hear more news on it.

[amtalx]

I don't really think Ikaruga has the kind of "any moron can pick up this game and play" kind of feel most of the XBLA games have. I can't even tell you the number of hours I racked up practicing to get perfect chains. Even now I cant max chain chapters 4 and 5.

[Kent]

On 2007-05-21 06:30, amtalx wrote:
I don't really think Ikaruga has the kind of "any moron can pick up this game and play" kind of feel most of the XBLA games have. I can't even tell you the number of hours I racked up practicing to get perfect chains. Even now I cant max chain chapters 4 and 5.



...What's your point? That's part of the reason we need Ikaruga on the arcade - it'll have Achievements that are actually achievements, you know.

And it's more fun than most of the Arcade games that are out there, put together.

[ABDUR101]

On 2007-05-21 03:48, HAYABUSA-FMW- wrote:
Also maybe Shadowrun before they remake that into something drastically different from the original as well.


You get 100 Kool-points, because I'd like me some Shadowrun from the Genesis.

[amtalx]

On 2007-05-21 06:59, Kent wrote:

On 2007-05-21 06:30, amtalx wrote:
I don't really think Ikaruga has the kind of "any moron can pick up this game and play" kind of feel most of the XBLA games have. I can't even tell you the number of hours I racked up practicing to get perfect chains. Even now I cant max chain chapters 4 and 5.



...What's your point? That's part of the reason we need Ikaruga on the arcade - it'll have Achievements that are actually achievements, you know.

And it's more fun than most of the Arcade games that are out there, put together.



My point is that MS set up some basic criteria for XBLA games and Ikaruga doesn't fit them very well. I love Ikaruga as well as Radiant Silvergun (proud owner of a retail disc) and would gladly welcome any reincarnation of either. However, I don't feel XBLA is the place to do it.

[DurakkenX]

basic criteria for XBLA games


What are they? are they listed somewhere? I the only criteria was that they were to have been in arcades at one time or another.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DurakkenX on 2007-05-21 10:35 ]</font>

[amtalx]

On 2007-05-21 10:33, DurakkenX wrote:


basic criteria for XBLA games


What are they? are they listed somewhere? I the only criteria was that they were to have been in arcades at one time or another.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DurakkenX on 2007-05-21 10:35 ]</font>


Yes, there is a 'mission statement' if you will that is provided to developers for XBLA games. Due to XBLAs initial success, every small developer tried to pitch their game to MS. In order to better filter the games and prevent developers from submitting unsuitable projects, MS wrote out some basic guidelines for XBLA games. I'm not sure if its publicly available in it entirety, but I have seen parts of it. When I get off from work I'll try to get a link for everyone. Its actually pretty interesting what MS wants to do with the whole XBLA thing.

[Kent]

Wait, so one of the requirements is that it's easy to pick up and play?

Minimal explanation is really necessary... Switch to the color of shots you want to not kill you, shoot stuff if you want, and try not to die.

Are you just trying to say that you think Ikaruga's too hard for the Arcade? :/ There are already more theoretically complex games available on it - just not ones this hard.

[amtalx]

On 2007-05-21 12:26, Kent wrote:
Wait, so one of the requirements is that it's easy to pick up and play?



Yes, I remember that being one of the paradigms they are looking for. This is really subjective though, so its really up to MS.


Minimal explanation is really necessary... Switch to the color of shots you want to not kill you, shoot stuff if you want, and try not to die.

The shortest explanation for a person to be able to play a game will always be short. You don't even really need to change your polarity at all in that game. Even the most complex games are built on simple design mechanics.



Are you just trying to say that you think Ikaruga's too hard for the Arcade? :/ There are already more theoretically complex games available on it - just not ones this hard.

Its not difficulty per se. Its just the nature of the game. Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun (more so Radiant Silvergun) are considered to be two of the deepest and most advanced shumps of all time among enthusiasts. Sure you can fudge your way through the game but IMO that's not what either of those games are about. A lot of the XBLA games that are out now have more of a 'skin deep' type of gameplay, although that is really in the eye of the beholder. Sure, the great Heavy Arms players use some pretty crazy tactics but its not that far removed from normal players. I had to learn an entirely new skill set to start chaining chapters.

If I can manage to get a copy of the guidelines for XBLA my point might make a little more sense.

[Sinue_v2]

Isn't Microsoft changing their stance on what is suitable for XBLA based on the success of the Wii Virtual Console and (perhaps) PS3 online store? I mean, XBLA is nice and all - but many of those dead-pan simplistic games are the reason why I'm shying away from the Arcade. I don't like JetPac Refueled. I don't want PacMan. I don't want Centipeed. I don't want Paperboy or RootBeer Tapper. Joust can go fuck itself.

I want more games like DOOM, SOTN, WORMS, Catan, ect - and then I want it to expand to other genres. While many of the Arcade offerings are classics which I agree SHOULD be included - I want more diversity than just "Arcade" games. I want games that make me feel my $5 - $10 was well spent.

Personally, I'd be estatic if XBLA merged with GameTap or something and offered their variety of downloadable content to the Xbox. Give players unlimited downloads of games, each with perhaps a DRM type licence that makes games expire and unexcecutable if your subscription to the Arcade is cut off. Then charge everyone who signs up for it like $4 bucks extra a month. Though still offer the ability to simply outright buy games from the Arcade if you don't wish to subscribe.

That would be completely pimp.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-05-21 15:43 ]</font>

[DurakkenX]

why buy a game when there are enough free versions of it... >.> how can MS get off selling pacman when there are like 100 free versions of it...

[Kent]

On 2007-05-21 15:42, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Personally, I'd be estatic if XBLA merged with GameTap or something and offered their variety of downloadable content to the Xbox. Give players unlimited downloads of games, each with perhaps a DRM type licence that makes games expire and unexcecutable if your subscription to the Arcade is cut off. Then charge everyone who signs up for it like $4 bucks extra a month. Though still offer the ability to simply outright buy games from the Arcade if you don't wish to subscribe.

That would be completely pimp.


What'd be even better, would be if your Xbox Live Gold subscription, instead of going straight to Microsoft's pockets, went toward that subscription.

[Sinue_v2]

Meh, I'm not too concerned with the $4.16 a month it costs for XBL. We get less service from our PSU subscriptions (all things considered), and that costs twice as much. PS3 Home is free, which is nice considering the scope of the goodies you get - but it still lacks many of the key features which make XBL so convenient.

I'd pay $8.32 a month for XBL w/ XBLA functionality which rivals GameTap's service.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-05-21 17:49 ]</font>

[amtalx]

Ok, here are a couple links to what Ms is looking for in a XBLA game. It looks like some additional documentation is provided to actual developers that may be more in depth. This is what they give the surfs though. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Just a heads up, you'll need PowerPoint to look at these.

GDC 2K7 presentation:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/f/f/c/ffc636fc-b81c-4d25-86c3-0a7d56d844a8/Arcade_GDC_2007.ppt


Gamefest 2K6:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/0/6/506e3b91-218c-4d88-9964-4d6c6db530ee/Developing%20Games%20for%20Xbox%20Live%20Arcade.pp t

[Kent]

...So, in other words, both Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun meet all of those requirements, the only real adjustments needed to fit the criteria would be for online play, achievements, Live integration, and file size.

Hell, knowing Treasure, we'd see the hardest and most malicious and sadistic achievements ever.

[amtalx]

Ummm. No. They don't really fit the requirements. It would be silly for me to go through the whole thing and show you why not.

[Kent]

Huh. That's not what the links you provided say.

Oh well, you can keep thinking that these great games aren't Arcade material. They'd still be some of the best games on the Arcade, by far.

[amtalx]

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Clearly, we could argue the finer points of this ad nauseum. I have no doubt that if they made their way to XBLA they would continue to be great games. However, I think our love for RS and Ikaruga is where the train stops. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Rubius-sama]

I thought Ikaruga was already confirmed for XBLA? I remember someone posting an article, too lazy to look for it though.

Sinue, does Gametap provide online multiplayer gameplay and scoreboards for old classics like DOOM, SF2, MK3, etc? Does Gametap employ its own developer team that constantly pumps out new games like Catan, BB Rocket, Geometry Wars, etc? Not trying to come forward as offensive, but I can see why MS wants to charge for these titles because a lot of resources are being directed into them. AFAIK Gametap doesn't do this, but I could be wrong.

What I'd personally like to see is GoldenEye and Killer Instinct (arcade version). And seeing as both of these games were developed by Rare - now acquired by MS - it could be very possible. Killer Instict is already rumouredto be heading to XBLA.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rubius-sama on 2007-05-22 23:47 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

I thought Ikaruga was already confirmed for XBLA?

It's not confirmed, it's rumored. Or rather, listed as unnanounced.


Sinue, does Gametap provide online multiplayer gameplay and scoreboards for old classics like DOOM, SF2, MK3, etc?

On some games, yes, GameTap does support multiplayer. It wouldn't be that hard to impliment a scoreboard or Achievements. As for Catan, it wasn't developed by Microsoft. Neither was Boom Boom Rocket or Geometry Wars (Bizzare Creations). Microsoft does have a few teams of developers creating content for XBL (Carbonated Games, for instance) but honestly they're ventures are nothing to really brag about. Nothing, aside from a very few titles on XBLA are anything to brag about - expecially in the face of Nintendo Virtual Console.

That's part of my point - Microsoft needs more classics, and more variety. If they have to sacrifice their "standards" a bit, then fine - but do what it takes to make Arcade a real contender. If Outpost Kolaki and Cloning Clyde are the best they can really offer - then it's going to get quickly overshadowed by the competition.

I'd like to see XBLA become a major selling point for the 360, not a gimmicky tack-on.


but I can see why MS wants to charge for these titles because a lot of resources are being directed into them.

I still stand by my statement that making the Arcade subscription based would be pimptastic. By putting people on a subscription basis, they basically are guanteed the equivilent of one Arcade purchase per month, as well as garnering money from those who decide not to subscribe - but rather simply buy their arcade games one at a time. That seems like a great deal to all parties involved, since I'm sure your average user doesn't purchase more than 1 game a month on average.

As for the resources that go into the Arcade titles - not as many resources would go into them as you'd think. It's far easier to impliment multiplayer, scoreboard, and achievements into existing titles than it would be to construct a whole new game from the ground up. Many games they could probably just leave the multiplayer out. Several titles (SotN, Feeding Frenzy, Geometry Wars, Centipeed, Bejeweled, ect) don't include multiplayer - and they fare just fine.

--------------------------------------
Edit: I weep...

They updated the Arcade a little while ago. We got Rush'n Attack and Xevios. Rush'n Attack was ok for the trial period - at which point I promptly deleted it. Xevios though... ugh... is a prime example of what I was referring to.

This is what we got:
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/screens/X/wXevios.png
Xevios
Pro: Multiplayer
Con: Bland Graphics, *Arcade screen, No depth.

This, is what (IMO) we SHOULD have gotten...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Raptor_1.jpg
Raptor: Call of the Shadows
Pro: Better Graphics, Ship Upgrades, Multiple Chapters, *Full Screen, Selectable difficulty.
Con: No Multiplayer

(* Xevios, like many arcade games, are still in arcade screen format - giving you a small picture and tons of empty space to the left and right - expecially on a widescreen TV).

Sure.. Xevios has multiplayer, but Raptor is by far the better game. I would at least feel comfortable paying 400 points for Raptor.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-05-23 03:59 ]</font>