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SolomonGrundy
Jun 6, 2007, 03:01 AM
A Guide to playing a female (or male) newman Wartecher

Forward: this guide is not meant to be the absolute word on how to play the game, or how to be l33t/pwnz0rz. It is simply a guide should help players who are considering the WarTecher class as a main or side class, including recommendations for techs, melee weapons, and firearms. It also assumes you know the location of quests, general mission rewards, and ‘where things are’ in the game. Apologies in advance to those who do not.

Prologue: Wartecher is not a cheap class, spells are expensive, grinding wands (or buying ground wands) is expensive, and making sure you update you weapons regularly, as you hit ATP, and ATA milestones will suck the life out of most bank accounts. If this is your first character, I recommend FiGunner, or have a wealthy friend. If it is not, please proceed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


In the Beginning:
Newmans start out as a force, and if WarTecher (WT) is your goal, you do not want to switch to hunter – go force first. Those of you considering WT as a side class to ForteTecher (fT), may already have the required levels of Force. Even if you are not a fT, it may be wise to go to Force 10 before switching to hunter, while it is inexpensive to change classes at low level, and this will give you time to level up some spells that are...sluggish.


If you have some $$$ set aside, go to player shops and pick up a 2* or 3* dark armor – even if you cannot equip it at level 1, by level 5-7 you will be able to, and that’s only a few runs in “Unsafe Passage.” I believe I started with “Rabol Ridla” (10 DFP req).
Don’t worry about the lack of a head slot; as a Force leveling quickly, you will have plenty of Technique Power (TP). The body slot will be more effective.

Let’s talk techniques: There will be a larger tech section later on in the guide, here I am only recommending a few techs to pick up when you are first starting out. Also, I recommend NOT purchasing more than one rod. If your intent is to go Wartecher, you should get used to the PP limitations, casting times, and space limitations of having wands on your palette.

My suggestions for early techs are the following: Diga, Dambarta, Deband, Retrier, Resta and the debuff of you choice (I recommend Zalure, as it is the most party friendly). You may get reverser… I didn’t, as antimates are cheap, and a few Sols for emergencies should be enough to get by, but I understand why people do. Also, you start with Foie.
Diga, Dambarta and Foie are going to be your bread and butter for damage for a LOT of the game. Dambarta is so good it’s broken – even if you hate it’s range, and the way it looks at first, get it to level 11+ and the difference is amazing. Getting techs to 11+ before you judge them is good general advice as well.

Finally, don’t worry about a bow at first, you don’t have the ATA/ATP to equip anything meaningful until level 15-20, and right about then you will be close to switching to hunter. And speaking of hunter…


Regardless of whether you are using WT as a side class of main, you will be switching to hunter for a short two levels. Enjoy the ATP, because it’s the highest you’ll have for 10 levels or so, when you make the switch over to WT. I’ll be going into a longer weapons section later, so here I’ll just touch on what to do/pick up as a low level hunter. First off, don’t switch to hunter until you can equip “Partisan” the 4* GRM spear and/or “Wire Gloves” the 4* fists. This occurs at level 23 as a Female, and level 21 as a male. Also synth/buy a decent % ice, light, fire and dark C rank 3* yohemi daggers, and the 5* GRM saber, durandal, in earth, and ice (NPC). Ice, light, earth Wire Gloves work well also.

Your goal for these short hunter levels is to get several photon arts to level 11+: Dus Duggas, Bogga Danga, Rising Strike, and Buten Shuren-zan. Gravity strike and Bogga Zubba are other good PAs to know, but you are only hunter for a short while, it is better to have fewer, higher level PAs, than many low level ones. Remember that damage and accuracy increase with leveling, as a newman ATP/ATP are very dear to you.

Armor wise, you’ll be using Zeetline. You will not have the DFP to equip rabol welda, another good hunter armor, so zeetline is where you will start, and elemental onces in the 20-24% range can be had on the cheap. If you have one lying around, a gigaline (42 DFP req), can be equipped by females at level 23/hunter1, males 25/hunter1.

Early Wartecher:
Generally, this class can be achieved by level 25, but at this level, you will not be able to equip many of the 4* weapons you used as a hunter! 0_o I recommend waiting until level 31 as a female, 29 as a male, which gives you that magic 164 ATP so you can continue to use those GRM weapons you’ve grown so fond of.

At this point, you now have enough ATA to equip a bow. But don’t bother getting anything other than a well ground 3* Compadri. In a few levels, you’ll have enough ATA to equip one of the Force/WT/fT uber weapons, the Alteric – a bow with high ATP, and low equipping requirements. This happens by level 33 for female, and 31 for a male.
You can forget about cards, and claws for a good long while – they are only available as A rank weapons, and you will not the ATA, or ATP for a loooong time. You CAN equip wands again, so I suggest adding at least 3 to your palette, and I’m sure you missed the tech damage, especially from any melee resistant enemies you might have come across (*coff* polhavora *coff*). You should also pick up shifta, and zodial, since you are using weapons now too.

It is also the time to consider joining a ‘buff party.’ - since you only have to get 11+ for the duration/power increase, and it can be difficult to keep a party buffed when they run out every 2 minutes (literally), it is worth the time investment to join one, and to be honest, it only takes about 20 mins per technique.

And now we should get into the section on spells and weapons, which I promised earlier.

MELEE WEAPONS
Wartechers can use Spears, Fists, Twin Sabers, Twin claws and Twin daggers as two handed weapons, and saber, dagger, and claw as 1 handed weapons. As a newman, WT, however, you are disadvantaged in ATP pretty severely, especially early. I don’t think it is a wise idea for a newman WT to use twin daggers…ever. Sure they are one of the classes’ two S rank weapons, but twin dagger’s low ATP, coupled with newman’s low ATP, means that you just won’t be hitting hard enough to do meaningful damage.

Note GRMs low equipping requirements, decent PP, and wide availability make then excellent choices as weapons for a newman WT for spears (6* and under), fists (6* and under), and sabers (all the way to 9*). Also, consider NPC store weapons with elements already on them – and example of this is the GRM Durandal, which comes with 26% ice, and is a pretty formidable weapon with +5 grind or so. Jitseen, the 7* saber, has a mouth watering 487 ATP, and can be equipped very early on.

A quick compare of the other two handed weapons @ 7* to help you make some choices about weapon selection. This is important, as you will only have *1* slot for a 2 handed weapon:

Gudda Breba (7* fists)
Requirement: 325
ATA: 287
ATP: 310
PP: 275

Mugungri (7* spear)
Requirement: 325
ATA: 253
ATP: 553
PP: 340

Death’s Dancers (7* twin swords)
Requirement: 286
ATA:219
ATP: 276
PP: 306

Ryo-Misaki (7* claws)
Requirement: 336
ATA: 202
ATP: 316
PP: 326

Two things should become clear: 1) Spears rule the roost for ATP, and PP, they will be your eventual bead and butter for melee damage 2) The rest are tradeoffs for ATP, PP and ATA. Luckily 4-6*, fists, twin swords, and spears come in many different makers, including kubara, so you have some good choices available. Consider too, the accuracy and damage modifiers of your photon arts. 5% of your total ATA/ATP (character+ weapon), can easily make up for a lower stat in a weapon type.

Finally, a few key ATP/ATA milestones, that will help you in equipping valuable weapons
ATA

Alteric, 83 ATA: Female 33/WT1, Male 31/WT1
Ulteri, 142 ATA: Female 58/WT7, Male 56/WT7
Kikami, 115 ATA: Female 46/WT5, Male 43 WT/5
Ageha-Kikami, 132 ATA: Female 54/WT6, Male 53/WT5

There are the ranged weapons you’ll most likely be seeking. Once you get the Alteric, especially one ground to +5/+7, there really is no point to getting anything other than an Ulteri, or it you are feverish about ATA, a WELL ground Hanmateric. Ageha-kikami has a set bonus with Ageha-senba, which increase the weapons ATA, and ATP by 25% making this a great ranged alternative to a bow, and with the notable side benefit of not taking up a full slot on your palette, like a bow does.

ATP (in increasing requirement order)

GRM 5* saber, 26% ice, 148 ATP:
Female 27/WT1, Male 26/WT1

GRM 4* spear, knuckles, 164 ATP:
Female 31/WT1, Male 29/WT1

Yohemi 5* single dagger, 31% fire, 178 ATP:
Female 35/WT2, Male 33/WT2

GRM 7* saber, 191 ATP:
Female 35/WT3, Male 33/WT3

GRM 5* dual swords, 22% ice, 221 ATP:
Female 39/WT3, Male 37/WT3

Yohemi 7* single dagger, 230 ATP:
Female 43/WT4, Male 41/WT4

GRM 8* saber 29% ice, 243 ATP:
Female 44/WT5, Male 43/WT4

Yohemi 5* spear, 28% fire, 244 ATP:
Female 45/WT5, Male 43/WT4

Tenora 5* spear, 24% electric, 252 ATP:
Female 47/WT5, Male 45/WT4

GRM 6* spear, knuckles, 266 ATP:
Female 49/WT5, Male 46/WT5

GRM 7* dual swords, 286 ATP:
Female 52/WT6, Male 50/WT6

Tenora 6* knuckles, 23% light, 289 ATP:
Female 53/WT6, Male 50/WT6

Tenora 7* spear, 325 ATP:
Female 57/WT8, Male 55/WT7

Note that I have included a LOT of weapons with store elemental percents here, this is because there is little risk, and great ATP/PP returns, getting weapons to a high or medium grind (+5 to +10). I have also included some “popular” weapons – twin swords for example, because a large number of people synth these, and it’s your chance to pick up a medium to high elemental % on the cheap. I did NOT include weapons which you would able to equip at lower level than 25/WT1 as a female.

As you can see, the male’s slight adjustment in ATP makes a decent difference in how soon they can equip the weapons that make a real difference in damage.

Also, and I’ll say this again in the tech section: If an enemy is resistant to a type of damage, Wartecher is NOT the type of class to plow through that resistance, even with the classes hardest hitting weapons. For instance, the Neudiz olgohmons are tech resistant. Fortetechers just load up the Gi/Ra Foie and plow right over them – that’s how hard they hit. Fortefighters attack Polhavara’s with multi-hit melee weapons, because they have the ATP (and PP reduction) to do so. Don’t try this as a WT. Even beast WT will be better off dropping a 500 damage Diga, then using up significant PP unloading with a Spear, or Knuckle PA.

TECHS
This may very well be the part most of you have been waiting for, the section with techs – what to use, what not to use. Let’s start out talking a little about wands. The great news for newmans is this: by level 31/32 you will be able to use the strongest wands the WT class is able to equip: Majimra (292 TP required). A decently ground (+3) Majimra, had 560 TP, and 858 PP. Now if you have millions and millions to burn, go forth and grab a satchel full of these, and blast away to your hearts conent. For those of us who have *some* level of budget, I present the following options:

Baton +8 to +10: these GRM wands actually have more PP than the corresponding yohemi 3* wands all the way to +9! With the abundance of par wood (in player shops for as little as 50 meseta), you can synth an almost limitless amount of them, and it is easy to get many to +6, several to +7, a few to +8, and save a batch of +10 grinders to get a few to +10. The recharge cost is next to nothing, and they great for casting buffs. Cheap.

W’gacros +7 to +10: though they have poor pp, the attack power on a +7 W’gacros is higher than a Lidra (the 8*) wand! If you are on a budget, you can buy these wands in player shops, or even find them in missions (level 50 Zoona, and Drua Gorha). I believe the Firebreak Moatoob mission on B contains level 50 Zoona, so milk this while you can.
Alternately, someone may be selling a W’gacros already ground. If you can find one at +7 or above, you might consider paying 80K-ish for one, or simply synth your own.

Cometarac: A Kubara special. With a 78% synth success rate, and the board is a ‘mere’ 55K, these wands have 1009 PP at +3. They are the ultimate buff wand. If you can get one to +5 and up, they start to have enough TP to do some real damage as well.

Cometara: The 7* Yohemi wand. Fully serviceable (but kinda ugly looking if you ask me). Damage wise, I’d be more likely to get frugal, synth/buy the w’gacros, and pop a photon charge every so often, but I would use them for healing, or as a back up wand. Ultimately I think many folks move on to…

Lidra: Here’s the thing, since Lidra’s can be bought in the NPC shops for 165K, player shops can’t really sell them for more, and expect to move any inventory. You can often pick on up for 150K…or less! That means you can buy 2 Lidra for every 1 Majimra you are considering.

My advice for those with any kind of real budget: Buy 1 majimra – you know you want to. Grind it once, and savor it on your palette. Never buy another. The 300K you would spend buys 600 Photon charges, AND when you consider it costs 200-ish to recharge a fully depleted majimra, it just makes good sense to spend that money elsewhere. Next, buy a pair of Lidra’s - 3 if you can swing it. Grind ‘em a few times. Up to 4 if you’ve got the stones for it. You can use them all on you palette, or keep 1 as a back up. Then get some comerta, and grind it at least to 4. I use it as my healing wand, and it works wonderfully. Finally, grab a handful of the cometerac boards. Like 6. You will probably get 4 or 5 out of synthing, and you are grinding them up to 3. Even if you only get 4 from syth, and one breaks in the grind, you now have unlimited access to PP, and in a pinch, you can use this wand for some damage.

Okay, enough about buying wands, lets talk about palette. Palette management will probably be your biggest issue until AoI hits – and then the situation only gets more complex, not easier. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Here’s the situation: there are 4 buffs, resta, and reverser. That’s 3 slots on your palette, and you have not even gotten anything that does damage! The beauty of Wartecher is in the versatility, but there ARE some space issues. Parties will expect you to cast *some* buffs, so you’ve got some real choices to make.
Here are my recommendations. If you are the only techer in a part (hey, it happens), load up shifta, zodial, and retrier. They will have to live without deband. On the plus side your resta has good range, and heals well, and people have ‘mates. If you are in a party with a force, or a fortetecher, you can put as few, or as many buffs on a wand as you want. You will only be buffing if they run out during combat, so if you just want to run with retrier, and shifta, that’s fine. When you are soloing, you can chose which buffs to use on yourself, depending on the area.

My palette set up is usually:
Two handed weapon or bow
<card>, wand (attack spellx2)
empty, wand (attack spellx2)
pistol, wand (buffs x2)
<card>, wand (resta, retrier)
empty, 1 handed weapon

Example (rainbow beast)
Fire Spear
Ice card, barta/dambarta
empty, jellen/foie
pistol, (shifta, zodial)
Light card, (resta, retrier)
empty, Fire dagger

I keep 2 slots empty, and there IS a method to my madness. If a photon charge is used on a left hand, right hand combo, it gives half PP to each weapon (totally stupid, but there it is). If the slot is empty, this does not occur.

On the subject of reverser: I don’t have it. It’s a great spell, and useful, but most of the effects that it can cure, a resta will cover, or your teammate can eat an antimate. I do carry Sol Atomizers on my left hand palette, for emergencies, but I’ve yet to go on a mission where I use more than 3.

Elemental wands: Dooo eet! Fortetechers use rods, and with 4 slots, I can understand not wanting all your spells to be of a single element. Their TP is so high; the extra damage is not worth the loss of versatility, since ALL four need to match. For a wand, it is worth it. This will also help you locate the right wand faster on your palette (get the RED one idiot!). With the proper elemental wand, a sori / force (or for who like photon charges, a Sori Tech / Charge), you can come darn near the damage output of a fT who uses a Har / Quick and non elemental rods. You’ll never beat it (and probably shouldn’t given the other advantages to being a WT), but it’s nice to see the raised eyebrow of a fT, when the tough little nugget standing next to him/her deals nearly as much damage.

Speaking of damage – what should you use to deal some? Let’s talk techs.

First things First: I already recommended Diga, and you start with Foie. These techs outperform in terms of damage (that is, thier damage modifier is VERY large when compared to other techs in the same category). Simply put, Diga is often the most damaging thing you have, and it’s only 12 pp, and silences at SE3 to boot (at 11+). It almost levels itself to 20. Foie is nearly as strong, and sets things on fire at SE3 (at 11+).

Now, one important thing to note is that WTs don’t get access to Status Effect level 4. They only get 3, and only through techs. Therefore, it behooves you, to pick up all the techs that have SE3, and give them a shot. Besides Foie and Diga, there is only 1 family of techs that give SE3 and that is the Dam-series. You’ve already got Dambarta, and if it’s at 11+ you already love it, but let me recommend damdiga, and damfoie as well. Oddly, dammegid is only SE2. I’m not saying don’t get it, I’m just saying wtf, SEGA?
Damdiga has knock back, and poison (which is the worst of the DoTs, but I’ll take what I can get). This tech wreaks havoc on go varhas when they attack en masse. Give them the slip when they come at you, then wave the damdiga around. The damage really piles up. Damfoie has no knock back, but SE3 fire is a powerful DoT. It ‘ticks’ damage every 2 seconds, at 4%, as compared to viruses 5% every four seconds. It’s worth noting that damdiga and damfoie are also significantly cheaper than damarta 9pp vs 12pp. It adds up.

I am also going to recommend Ra-series spells. I’ll let you decide which ones fit best. They have a faster casting time, and are cheaper per cast. Many Fortetechers prefer gi-series spells – and for them it makes perfect sense. The higher pp cost is less material, and the 6 target, 21+ SE3 is enough to make these Gi spells worth it. For Wartechers, with no pp reduction, no 21+ and lower TP, RA spells are a better fit. Consider Rafoie 20 vs Gifoie:

Rafoie 20 is 150% damage, and 20 pp (for a WT)
Gifoie 30 is 140% damage and 32 pp (fT)

Add in the 4% elemental bonus for using an elemental wand and faster casting time and holy cripes, I’m competing with a fT for tech damage! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
Just to state the obvious: it’s not a competition - no one expects WTs to deal damage on par with fTs, that’s not what this class is about. A fT with an elemental rod, using the same tech as a WT, will embarrass the WT damage wise. But you should understand what Wartecher is capable of, and it’s a lot.

Let’s talk about ultimate photon arts, or rather: why not to get them...except maybe 1.

Noszonde: This is one of the two big disappointments for the WT. SE3 Shock, hits ariel enemies, and a drool-a-liscious damage modifier. To bad it’s pp cost is INSANE. 48pp at level 1-10, 60(!!) at level 11-20. it would have to hit every enemy on the screen…twice to pay for it’s cost.

Nosdiga: Stun is possibly the best SE, and when I say possibly I mean definitely. Opponents don’t move, cast techs, and unlike ice, it cannot be broken. If I was playing a fT, I would never use anything but this on a +10 Granarodoc with photon charges. It’s damage is better than Diga at level 21+ (you remember Diga, the most damaging tech in your arsenal?) Sadly, it’s PP cost is prohibitive, jumping from expensive at 25 pp, level 1-10, to 45 at 11-20. At 36 pp(fT reduction), this spell is worth it. At 45, with lower pp reserves, it is not. More’s the pity.

Nosmegid: a) This tech’s increase in damage is based off your HP being low, something that resta-type classes don’t do a whole lot of. b) it only hits (at most) 2 targets. c) It’s so expensive, that pp costs aren’t even listed for WTs on the PSU-pedia. Not missed at all.

Giresta: I don’t even understand the popularity of this spell with fTs - perhaps they will enlighten me. A Moon Atomizer X is instant, costs no PP, and restores full HP. Seriously, 150 pp for revive, uber heal, and short term hp recovery? They should pay ME 90 PA frags for using this tech. On the plus side it levels quickly. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And…

Megiverse: I took a chance on this spell, after watching Golormo’s attack pattern, and being annoyed by it. SEGA tied so hard to make this tech bad, and couldn’t. The damage modifier is not great, the HP drain is not super handy (since this tech usually ends with you being whalloped), and the cost starts high, and it levels…so…slowly. So why is it good? The answer lies in the techs area of effect, and the recurring damage. Area of effect is huge – larger than gi-type spells. And generally, techs have a casting animation before they go off. Dam-techs, and megiverse are just press and hold. Finally, the cost of megiverse gets MORE reasonable as it jumps in level. Consider Gibarta, which goes from 20 pp to 30 pp from 10 to 11. Megiverse starts at 24, but only moves to 30 when it levels to 11. I highly recommend this tech.

Last thought on techs (I said I’d mention it again): If an enemy is resistant to a type of damage, Wartecher is NOT the type of class to plow through that resistance, even with the classes hardest hitting weapons. Going back to the Olgohmon example (they are tech resistant). I brought a level 45/WT5 female newman to a B rank forested islands mission. I loaded Rafoie, and Foie on my strongest wand, and went to work. The techs did half damage, but cost me full PP. Net result, wand got drained of PP fast, and enemies snickered up their sleeves at me. Bastards. Thankfully, I *also* brought a +5 Halbenatta, which comes with 28% fire, and a gross of TP. Using a combo of normal strikes and Dus Duggas, I was able to take down the next group of enemies quickly, and used the pp savings to foie the Kamatoze, who was ALSO snickering (cheeky monkey).


High level play:
UPDATE (7/13) - Level 65 is no where near the current cap of 90, but it is sufficiently high level to come in to your own. Here are some more observations: When it comes to melee damage, if you give your best elemental % weapons to your WT, you are not going to a big difference in damage between you, and a Figunner. On the tech side, there is about a 250 pt difference in damage between you, and your fellow fT, when using the same tech. Not a big deal at all for a tech like Diga (1000 vs 1250 - who cares?). Pretty significant on a tech like damabarta, where you do 450, and they do 700. on the flip side, WTs, evne newman WTs, are tanks. I stand in the middle of S2 Volfu, and punish them with gidiga, and only get hit for 150. (and that's with a 'common' 30% lightning ageha senba).
MST is usably high: with 38% dark ageha-senaba, a sta/force (+30 MST), and retrier, a female newman takes zero damage from level 60 deljabans. This is where I spend most of my time - burning deljabans with damfoie, taking 10-12 points of damage per hit from jellened deljaban's/sendellains, and cruising though the missions, solo, in 25 mins.

The one downside seems to be ranged damage. True, you can hit for 325 with your bow (aligned element), or 170x2 with cards, but a fortefighter with a pistol can do the same, an no one is calling fF ranged damage 'useful'


ARMOR:

It’s a funny thing, but armor selection for a WarTecher, like weapon selection, is not as straight forward as some other classes. In this section, I’ll be making recommendations for armor up to 7*. High level armor is really for the very wealthy, and people who know this game, know that % on armor >> defensive Stats. There will be some honorable mentions for 8*+ armor

For a newman WT, here is the order in which I rate slots, and a quick rationale as to why:

Head: let’s face it, you didn’t become a newman WT for the ATP, you wanted to be able to bring it with techs, and regardless of whether you use a Me /Quick, Gi / Magic or Sori Tech / Charge it’s the head slot you don’t want to give up.

Body: Mega Rainbow, or Tero / Guard or even Tero / Legs. These three units really give WT that extra something that tank the class out, and if you look at WT stats, this class favors defense over offense. Play to your strengths.

Arm: You are under ATP’d. If you plan to run heavier melee in an area, the 50 ATP from a Mega / Power is good start.

Extra: you don’t have an SUV, and you DO have reverser. Sure it is awful to take the occasional megids in the face, and die, but the 2-3 extra endurance you get from slot items is little safeguard against this.

For low level play, your choice is relatively simple: 3* GRM buster line comes with every slot but extra, and extra your most expendable slot…but relatively quickly, you will have some tough choices to make.

Ageha-senba, though missing the Arm Slot, is an excellent armor for a WT, as it can be mass synthed, and is popular enough that you can pick 20-24% up in shops for every element for under 25K per. The equipping requirement (20 DFP) can be achieved before level 15, even for a male newman. Also, as I mentioned earlier, this armor forms a set with one of your best ranged weapons: Ageha-kikami. The ATP boost for this set is greater than a mega / power, and you get an ATA bump as well.

I might also mention, that this is an ideal armor for S rank Hive, Seed Awakened, Unsafe Passage, and Fight for Food. The prevalence of megids here – undodge-ably so, means you’ll want to beef up your END stat. Note that I do not recommend Rabol Tero for these runs

Gi-senba is 28% ice, and matches slots with Ageha-senba, it good for those deft enough to do armor swapping on the fly. The 28% (and your MST) is enough to take the bite out of anything non-buffed, and renders Kamatoze, and regular Gohmons completely ineffective. The equipping requirement it 28 DFP, which you will have even as a male WT, by level 20/WT1.

Te-Senba is your go-to light armor (it comes with 27%). If you are running Holy Ground, or Sleeping warriors (where the only real threats are the Golormos), this store armor has the Head, Arm, and Body. Note there are no status effects in Sleeping warriors, so END is pretty useless there anyway.

Rabol-Danga: For any area you decide to heavy melee in, but still want to keep head slots. It's awful armor, but at least gives +15ATP, and +4 ATA

Your endgame armor, if you find A rank units is either Nafri-senba (no, not for the set bonus with 2* daggers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif ) or Ga-Senba, depending on whether you are going heavy tech, or heavy melee. I’m inclined to go with Nafri-Senba in every area of the game but the all-dark areas, where I would favor high % dark Ga-senba. Ga-senba also makes a set with Ga-Misaki, the 8* (34% dark!) single claw. Single Claws are excellent weapons, so if you happen to get a good % light Ga-senba, this could be a great Holy Ground armor!

Honorable mentions:
Rabol Gant, makes a set with Gudda Gant, and fists are excellent WT weapons. Good luck synthing it :-/
Sori-senba: 4 slots, and if you synth your own, the ice % will surely improve
Rabol Rappy: 4 slots, light-type, A rank. Good luck finding one, but if you do, win!




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-07-13 11:11 ]</font>

Jakosifer
Jun 6, 2007, 09:06 AM
You rock. My cousin is gonna love this topic when I show her. <_<

panzer_unit
Jun 6, 2007, 09:23 AM
Nice guide. I checked it out for my Cast WT but I dunno if it applies, the difference in balance between melee and tech damage output is pretty serious.

Armor adviRABOL RAD RABOL RAD RABOL RAD

... I'll admit that's going to be an end-game item for Newman WT's, at 93 DFP to equip. I just got enough for it with my 50/6 Caseal. You have to hunt it off of lv 80-90 Navals, or get lucky in a player shop to score a set too.

Why get excited? The set bonus with 6* Tenora spears. This is the fighter's Phantom/Phantomline combo.
* high-end 8* Tenora armor with a 25% boost to everything. DFP and MST are on par with Yohmei and GRM armors respectively, and you need a NASA telescope to find your EVP 'cause it's so high.
* economical, mass-producable, grindable, 6* spears now get a 25% boost to their already good ATP and ATA... B-rank synths to get A-rank stats for your strongest weapon type. Win, win, win.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-06-06 07:25 ]</font>

SolomonGrundy
Jun 6, 2007, 01:07 PM
On 2007-06-06 07:23, panzer_unit wrote:
Nice guide. I checked it out for my Cast WT but I dunno if it applies, the difference in balance between melee and tech damage output is pretty serious.

Armor adviRABOL RAD RABOL RAD RABOL RAD

... I'll admit that's going to be an end-game item for Newman WT's, at 93 DFP to equip. I just got enough for it with my 50/6 Caseal. You have to hunt it off of lv 80-90 Navals, or get lucky in a player shop to score a set too.

Why get excited? The set bonus with 6* Tenora spears. This is the fighter's Phantom/Phantomline combo.
* high-end 8* Tenora armor with a 25% boost to everything. DFP and MST are on par with Yohmei and GRM armors respectively, and you need a NASA telescope to find your EVP 'cause it's so high.
* economical, mass-producable, grindable, 6* spears now get a 25% boost to their already good ATP and ATA... B-rank synths to get A-rank stats for your strongest weapon type. Win, win, win.



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Good thing WTs have a high DFP modifier! I will indeed craft an armor section. Note the slots of Arm, Body, and Extra are more suited to a cast, but it still remains an excellent set.

Question: can you confirm that MST is increased with armor sets? That would make my day.

DreamLocke
Jun 6, 2007, 01:46 PM
Nice work. I'm a Beast WT though so I'm not as attack-tech heavy as a newman would be. I'm seriously considering dambarta as my main attack tech not because of the damage (beast...) but the SE. But one of my debuffs will have to go (zoldeel?) maybe I'll put it on a wand with zalure for the elemental % bonus...

lol the funny thing is in random groups people mistake me for a FT because in parties I keep supports and debuffs going and right now I'm leveling up my bow elements. I have to actually tell them I'm a Wartecher and they act suprised.

The only thing I don't like is the pallete management. Right now I'm using 3 handgun/wand combos with resta/reverser, shifta/deband, and zalure/zoldeel. That leaves my dual daggers, bow, and spear. No room for attack techs unless I give up something. (Bow? maybe due to the fact we only get 10 bullets right now and my Beast ATA is meh) But then I'm left with yet another handgun/wand combo. O.o

panzer_unit
Jun 6, 2007, 01:50 PM
That should be pretty easy... equip the spear, eat a Diga, equip something else, eat a Diga.

The damage boost is really right in your face though, like "damn, that's a _lot_ more per hit" ... if memory serves I went from 225 to 275 on normal hits. That's a 20% boost to total damage, normal spear hits are suddenly on par with PA hits from twin daggers and twin sabers.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 6, 2007, 02:13 PM
On 2007-06-06 11:46, DreamLocke wrote:
Nice work. I'm a Beast WT though so I'm not as attack-tech heavy as a newman would be. I'm seriously considering dambarta as my main attack tech not because of the damage (beast...) but the SE. But one of my debuffs will have to go (zoldeel?) maybe I'll put it on a wand with zalure for the elemental % bonus...

lol the funny thing is in random groups people mistake me for a FT because in parties I keep supports and debuffs going and right now I'm leveling up my bow elements. I have to actually tell them I'm a Wartecher and they act suprised.

The only thing I don't like is the pallete management. Right now I'm using 3 handgun/wand combos with resta/reverser, shifta/deband, and zalure/zoldeel. That leaves my dual daggers, bow, and spear. No room for attack techs unless I give up something. (Bow? maybe due to the fact we only get 10 bullets right now and my Beast ATA is meh) But then I'm left with yet another handgun/wand combo. O.o



As a beast, I'd drop the deband (you got resta, right?), and add zodial. then drop the zodeel, and add dambarta to your zalure wand. Hanmateric, the 8* bow, has 340 ATA. If you can buy one ground to +4, it has usable ATP as well. Buy I agree, the toughest part about playing a WT, is what to put on the palette.

Dhylec
Jun 6, 2007, 02:23 PM
This is looking to be another nice, detailed guide. Keep it up Solo. ;]

DreamLocke
Jun 6, 2007, 02:42 PM
On 2007-06-06 12:13, SolomonGrundy wrote:


As a beast, I'd drop the deband (you got resta, right?), and add zodial. then drop the zodeel, and add dambarta to your zalure wand. Hanmateric, the 8* bow, has 340 ATA. If you can buy one ground to +4, it has usable ATP as well. Buy I agree, the toughest part about playing a WT, is what to put on the palette.



Here's a question...as a Beast WT is it even necessary to use debuffs at all? With AoI coming out we know WTs are going to get 30 attack techs, 20 support. It seems ST is molding WT's to be attack tech/melee as a class, not support/melee. And bullets I think are going up to 20, meaning we get those SE's we need plus the added damage because of our fairly high ATP. But I ONLY HAVE ONE WAND LEFT to use attack techs on with 2 taken by the essential resta/reverser and shifta/deband!!!!(actually zodial since WT ATA...meh)

Argh...being a WT can give you a migraine. Why couldn't it hurt to give us rods?

SolomonGrundy
Jun 6, 2007, 02:53 PM
On 2007-06-06 12:42, DreamLocke wrote:

On 2007-06-06 12:13, SolomonGrundy wrote:


As a beast, I'd drop the deband (you got resta, right?), and add zodial. then drop the zodeel, and add dambarta to your zalure wand. Hanmateric, the 8* bow, has 340 ATA. If you can buy one ground to +4, it has usable ATP as well. Buy I agree, the toughest part about playing a WT, is what to put on the palette.



Here's a question...as a Beast WT is it even necessary to use debuffs at all? With AoI coming out we know WTs are going to get 30 attack techs, 20 support. It seems ST is molding WT's to be attack tech/melee as a class, not support/melee. And bullets I think are going up to 20, meaning we get those SE's we need plus the added damage because of our fairly high ATP. But I ONLY HAVE ONE WAND LEFT to use attack techs on with 2 taken by the essential resta/reverser and shifta/deband!!!!(actually zodial since WT ATA...meh)

Argh...being a WT can give you a migraine. Why couldn't it hurt to give us rods?



It depends on the area, and the enemies. I would pack zalure if fighting in Labs, with the jarba's, polhavoras, and even the volfu (they hit hard, and geting them dead quicker = good). Zodeel is not bad it's just - hard to justify a slot for it. Jellen is more of a special case. I'm not sure if you are aware, but many enemies spell-like attacks (kamatoze barta, for example), is NOT a tech, truly. It count's as a physical attack, and jellen will reduce it's potency. There are many attacks like this!

However, if you are going to use jellen, throwing on a deband is a good idea too. The best place for this combo is the Unsafe passage, and fight for food, where the damage piles up so fast, an 11+ jellen goes a long way.

For AoI, you are correct: WTs are not longer in a supporting role. GTs, fTs, and ATs will be doing the support, and I epect to see a fair number of newman WTs making a conversion. However, there is always soloing http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

DreamLocke
Jun 6, 2007, 03:20 PM
As WT's versatality comes with a price. I think the second hardest thing besides pallette setup is what role we have to play in a party.

The reason I mentioned debuffs in the first place is when a (good) FT is present, my buffs are negligible. Since I'm used to being a backup force anyway, I want to feel like I'm useful so I'll throw debuffs.

Most FT's I've partied with don't really bother with them since zalure doesn't mean much to them, but the front-liners appreciate it. And...zalure is nice for exp tagging http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif so I can do other things without worrying about putting my low level butt at risk when I don't need to. (Lvl 16, lvl 3 WT) As melee in a party, I don't do big numbers yet so I don't want to embarass myself so I'm playing more of a support role right now. That's why I've been mistaken for a FT to those who don't pay close attention.

panzer_unit
Jun 6, 2007, 03:49 PM
On 2007-06-06 12:53, SolomonGrundy wrote:
For AoI, you are correct: WTs are not longer in a supporting role.

WT will also get access to SE3 on Ra- and Gi- techs, and a huge range boost on Dam- techs... you can mix melee for crowd control and attack techs for SE. Your primary damage will be here or there depending on race.

Currently I'm having an awful time trying to play like this... SE2 on something as slow/short-ranged as available techs just isn't cutting it. I've mostly been filling in for debuffing (if there's a real techer in the house) or buffs if the party's high-level for an area.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-06-06 13:52 ]</font>

JAFO22000
Jun 6, 2007, 04:05 PM
Also, once AoI hits, WTs can have all six slots be one-handed weapons coupled with Madoogs. I think the tech aspect of the WT will be greatly improved by this upgrade. In the middle of a fight, I can use a saber, cast gibarta, then back to the saber all without having to cycle through my palette like a madman!

DreamLocke
Jun 6, 2007, 04:29 PM
Oh, AoI can't come soon enough. Panzer_unit said basically what I mentioned about our wierd role as melee/debuffer in parties. We also look strange changing wands every 2 seconds. EVERY 2 FAKKING SECONDS...

And it also would be nice that AoI will allow us to be the melee/casters like WTs are supposed to be.

Edit: I don't want to imply that I hate being a WT...I like being able to do a little bit of everything; I love hybrid classes. But even GT seems easier to use right now until we're "fixed"



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DreamLocke on 2007-06-06 14:34 ]</font>

huntlyon
Jun 6, 2007, 04:34 PM
I still don't think debuffs should be undervalued as a WT- post expansion. yeah, we may be stuck with level 20 spells, but not many fTs can get into the thick of a hairy situation to apply them.

panzer_unit
Jun 6, 2007, 05:07 PM
Dream, all my guns and wands are the same model. Besides flashing lights nobody can tell what's up. Cuts down on swap time too.

Not that anyone CARES if I pop Resta, Reverser, Shifta, and Zalure in 4 shakes of what looks like the exact same wand. Since I got Jain back on duty for Firebreak I've been thanked exactly TWICE for keeping up shifta / deband for the team.

DreamLocke
Jun 6, 2007, 05:33 PM
lol I was with a party for almost an hour before they realized I was the one keeping up the support techs. The FT in our group actually got mad because I was doing the healing too and "stealing his resta" The reason is I was on the frontline with the fighgunners and fortefighters and when I resta'ed when I got hit it would cover them, too.

So yeah, we have a thankless job.

JAFO22000
Jun 6, 2007, 05:40 PM
On 2007-06-06 15:07, panzer_unit wrote: Since I got Jain back on duty for Firebreak I've been thanked exactly TWICE for keeping up shifta / deband for the team.



Oi, I dislike being thanked all the time. I mean, if I perform some spectacular heal right as you're about to die to save you a scape, then yeah a nice thanks is in order....

But I hate when I get a "thanks" or "ty" popping up on the screen everytime I buff, resta or reverser. It gets old after awhile!

Not to seem ungrateful, a thank you every now and then is cool, but not ALL THE TIME!! Thanking me once during the first resta cast will suffice.

panzer_unit
Jun 6, 2007, 06:09 PM
._.

... I think if you made a cute enough newman fighter and pretended to be female (e.g. don't spam "I'M A GUY" chats all the time) you'd have everyone on the team saying "THAAAANKS =^_^=" whenever they saw you do a PA.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 6, 2007, 06:24 PM
I'd like to add one additional thought about using different wands - it helps when you are switching to a backup wand if/when you run out of pp.

For example, if i have 6 lidra's, each with a different set up, some elemental, some non, it can take a few extra seconds to figure out which wands I want, and get it back on the pallete. Maybe I run with too many wands (10), but I think haveing extra pp is a good thing.

oh, and panzer, Caseal WTs play completely different then newearl WTs. The extra HP/ATA/ATP/DFP and corresponding lack of TP/MST make attack techs very situational, but debuff techs a VERY good choice (as you have stated). This guide was to help out the newman WTs, who want to pitch in with techs (I'm sure), and bring it with the occaisional melee, and not be embarrassed, by thier figunner compatriots (I don't think comparing WTs to ForteFighters is very fair, that's why I say FiGs)

Midicronica
Jun 7, 2007, 07:30 AM
Wow, great timing Solomon. I'll be making my newman FT go WT sooner or later (before FB ends) and I was going ask for some pointers, but then I stumbled upon this bad boy. Very nice.

We should play again sometime btw. Just no arguing with fellow players about the definition of diction. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

SolomonGrundy
Jun 7, 2007, 12:58 PM
On 2007-06-07 05:30, Shadow_Moses wrote:

We should play again sometime btw. Just no arguing with fellow players about the definition of diction. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



absolutely http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

ARMOR section added.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-06-07 12:09 ]</font>

panzer_unit
Jun 7, 2007, 01:45 PM
What are the minimum and maximum endgame ATP and TAP totals (e.g. include 9* spear & wand, common units for reference sake) for Wartechers across races?

I'm willing to bet it's surprisingly close, just 'cause the class stat mods aren't really high anywhere.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 7, 2007, 02:19 PM
On 2007-06-07 11:45, panzer_unit wrote:
What are the minimum and maximum endgame ATP and TAP totals (e.g. include 9* spear & wand, common units for reference sake) for Wartechers across races?

I'm willing to bet it's surprisingly close, just 'cause the class stat mods aren't really high anywhere.


High
Beast Male 80/10: 673+676 (from the 9* spear) = 1349
Low
Newman Female 80/10: 502+676 =1178

From there it get's needlessly complicated, as we get into the debate of what units each will use. Certainly no sane WT is going to use Solid Power / S, but is the beast going to roll the dice and stick with an all ATP unit?

I recommend Hard Power / Charge for the newman wartecher, as the amount of melee they will do is small, and 160 ATP is big. This would hold true for a Cast WT, I imagine. Invest in Photon charges http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

As a Beast, I'd almost be tempted to use Solid Hit / S - 100 ATP is a big blow, but it completely changes your ATA profile

panzer_unit
Jun 7, 2007, 03:01 PM
That's WAY closer for total ATP than I'd imagined... equipping HPC will put the newm right on par with the beast. 1338 vs 1349?

What about TP... where are you digging this info up anyway?

SolomonGrundy
Jun 7, 2007, 03:15 PM
On 2007-06-07 13:01, panzer_unit wrote:
That's WAY closer for total ATP than I'd imagined... equipping HPC will put the newm right on par with the beast. 1338 vs 1349?

What about TP... where are you digging this info up anyway?



TP comparison:
Low, Male Cast 80/10
402 TP + 564 (+4 majimra) = 966 TP
High, Female Newman 80/10
840 TP + 564 (+4 Majimra) = 1404 TP

I get stat info from Amesani's web site, after confiming the stats with my own characters stats several times. Here is the link. note that a LOT of info is missing for unusual character combo's (like Cast WTs). Still, all race/class stats are known in 5 level increments.

Here is the link (this has already been published, so I don't believe I am violating any privacy, but if someone believes I am, please let me know)
http://psu.amesani.org/project/charstat/calc.php

KiteWolfwood
Jun 7, 2007, 04:52 PM
Is Damfoie really Burn lvl3? I check psupedia an it lists it at only lvl 2 burn. Great guide by the way. I never have even looked at the dam- spells until now. Now that I have though they are pretty nifty.

panzer_unit
Jun 7, 2007, 05:00 PM
So newman WT's come out pretty high, statistically... they're closer to maximum ATP (88%) than casts are to maximum TP (68%) hopefully A-rank GRM wands will knock the difference down a bit in the expansion, since WT attack techs are going to become a whole lot sexier.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 7, 2007, 06:17 PM
On 2007-06-07 14:52, KiteWolfwood wrote:
Is Damfoie really Burn lvl3? I check psupedia an it lists it at only lvl 2 burn. Great guide by the way. I never have even looked at the dam- spells until now. Now that I have though they are pretty nifty.



Thank you! I too thought damfoie was only SE2, so I posted this thread and got the real info:
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=142875&forum=22&8

@panzer
Cast WTs kinda 'take it' in the expansion. Since buffs/debuffs were kept at 20, and level 50 are available it leaves them in 'meh' land. Unless you are in a party with a fT or Arco techer - then it get's good again! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

GRM wands are probably broken. I much prefer them over Yohemi wands for the great early grinding, and better TP.

Shiro_Ryuu
Jun 8, 2007, 07:42 AM
I would have to agree w/ Solomon on alot of things, 1st off, Newman + Twin Daggers = bad. Now, I'm not some elitist tard, but it does get frustrating when you're unable to kill anything. Newmans are best of with Single Daggers and Spears. Also, in AoI, There are gonna be GRM A rank daggers, so that'll help the Newmans even more w/ their needed ATP boost. Also, their higher base TP means that they can better use madoogs for nuking since I hear that Madoogs don't give so much TP, making base TP more important for those weapons. Interesting to see how small the difference between Male Beast and Female Newman is when both have spears equipped, 1300 vs. 1100 is not so great a difference.

The lv 20 support techs w/ the cap being 50 for PAs in general seems to be a huge slap in the face for Beasts and CASTs since now, they're no longer as great at support as they once were, and the lv 30 attack techs helps Newmans alot, so does the A rank GRM daggers which will most likely reduce the difference even more than the Yohmei stuff.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-06-08 05:44 ]</font>

panzer_unit
Jun 8, 2007, 09:08 AM
On 2007-06-07 16:17, SolomonGrundy wrote:
@panzer
Cast WTs kinda 'take it' in the expansion. Since buffs/debuffs were kept at 20, and level 50 are available it leaves them in 'meh' land.

I can see myself getting a LOT of mileage out of lv21+ attack techs to spam SE3 statuses and soften up groups of monsters when they're too tough for me to just run in and start trading hits.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 8, 2007, 01:46 PM
On 2007-06-08 07:08, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-06-07 16:17, SolomonGrundy wrote:
@panzer
Cast WTs kinda 'take it' in the expansion. Since buffs/debuffs were kept at 20, and level 50 are available it leaves them in 'meh' land.

I can see myself getting a LOT of mileage out of lv21+ attack techs to spam SE3 statuses and soften up groups of monsters when they're too tough for me to just run in and start trading hits.



it's just that I can you you getting MORE mileage over out of level 50 debuffs/buffs, with the same ability to use SE3, *and* level 30 bullets - which I think, given Casts ATA, does not suck very much.

panzer_unit
Jun 8, 2007, 03:57 PM
Acrotecher looks like more of what Newmans want from Wartecher in PSU, a fT that can provide their own crowd control. The nice modifiers on EVP and TP will leave beasts and casts badly underperforming class maximums for survivability and tech damage.

The boosts Wartechers get in AoI make them look more like what I really want out of it, a Fortefighter that can throw some SE and basic heals around to support itself. I totally forgot that WT gets S-RANK WANDS in AoI... never mind GRM A-ranks, 10* or better gear is sure to narrow the gap between high- and low-TP races.

Shiro_Ryuu
Jun 8, 2007, 06:41 PM
I agree about Acrotecher. I've been wanting a Force that can physically hold its own for a female newman. I don't know why WTs get S rank wands though, they'd be way better off w/ S rank madoogs IMO. Although sometimes, I may switch my female newman to Wartecher if I'm ever so inclined to do so.

Isabella
Jun 8, 2007, 11:57 PM
T_T Please make V go WT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Allison_W
Jun 9, 2007, 11:52 AM
Actually, I've heard that Bogga Danga is trash. I'm also forced to wonder why you say knuckles are good weapons for WTs--for beasts, I'd believe it, giving the beast WT's gimped ATA, but for newmans, ATP is considerably more important, isn't it?

SolomonGrundy
Jun 10, 2007, 02:58 AM
Bogga Danga is most definitely NOT trash!

knuckles are a good weapon beasue early and mid-game, the GRM knuckles offer good ATP, with excellent ATA. Compare the GRM 6* knuckles to other weapons with similar equipping requirements.

Wartecher ATA isn't good until WT9, and even then only good for newmans WTs as compared to the other WTs, not good-in general. Using knuckles allows you to wear a ATP type unit, und not worry as much about '0's

You'll be tempted to say: don't GRM spears offer more ATP? And the answer is yes, but spear's attack area of effect is a very narrow "V", while fists have a much wider cone in which enemies can be hit.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-06-10 00:59 ]</font>

LTrav2k
Jun 10, 2007, 10:26 AM
Nice guide Solomon! Megiverse is the truth, the amount of mobs you can damage at once is too good for us to pass up. I can't wait until we can get it to level 30 and be able to cover entire rooms no less! I've been forever trying to figure out what to do in regards of ultimate PAs, and after reading this... it reaffirms that until I get a tech save, I'm gonna stay away from the nosu spells.

Once the expansion hits, high end's going to change a lot for us. Acrotechers get S rank Madoogs, while we get S rank wands. Do you guys think the TP on the wands will make up the difference for our attack spells when compared to acrotechers? The melee boost will be much appreciated, but will we finally be able to "plow" through a resistance come the expansion?

SolomonGrundy
Jun 10, 2007, 11:31 AM
Both AT and WT get level 30 attack techs, and the difference in TP is slight. I think S anks madoogs will be about equal to S rank wands, so it's push. The big difference in the classes is ATA, EVP, and weapon selection.

In a party that contains BOTH a WT, and an AT...yes, i think level 50 buffs will enable WTs (and ATs) to take down desistaant enemies with techs - especially fire, or ground, which have higher damage mods.

panzer_unit
Jun 11, 2007, 09:31 AM
Bogga Danga has to be lv21+ before it's really worth talking about; leap and blow-away makes for awesome crowd control. So it's only a required move if you plan on spending time as a fF or FG with the character, or planning in the long-term for when AOI comes out....

SolomonGrundy
Jun 11, 2007, 03:33 PM
Remember panzer, this guide is for newmen WTs, and for them, the ATP/ATA of the weapon offers some advantages that Casts, and Beasts simply don't need. I party with a Beast WT often, and she uses GRM twin swords 8* and she is lower level than me - those weapons are just a crazy dream for me. Lower rank GRM twin swords are a little lean in the ATP department, and if I switch over to Tenora, the PP is low enough that an excess of photon charges (or back-up weapons) are needed.

GRM fists, have the excellent combination of low equipping requirements, good PP, and good ATP/ATA that make this a solid weapon when combined with a multi-hit PA such as bodda danga. Sure, it's crowd control aspect isn't the best, but the hits come pretty fast, and against the enemies you'll be using it on (Say, Goldova), you are not are worried about being interupted.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif But I'll agree with the sentiment: that 21+ really wows with this PA. And it looks 'kewl'

panzer_unit
Jun 11, 2007, 04:12 PM
I don't disagree with the weapon type, IMO knuckles blow away twin daggers and twin swords for WT's... moreso with Newmans... but Bogga Danga's just begging to be compared with Rising or Gravity Strike and Buten Suren-zan because they're all hit-hit-hit-getouttahere. 6* GRM and Yohmei knuckles even have stats right in the same ballpark as the 6* Yohmei saber and dagger. The big difference is that third move... unless Bogga Danga also gets better %'s for ATP and ATA. I didn't consider that until right now.

Bogga Zubba and Bogga Robado are more unique offerings, especially for Newmans... good alternatives to Rising Crush on twin sabers (low ATP weapons don't help newms for damage output) and Renzan whatever on twin claws (which are won't be equippable until later on, they only come as A-ranks)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-06-11 14:13 ]</font>

Lamak
Jun 11, 2007, 04:17 PM
Nice guide. You can learn alot from it. And I have to agree about megiverse. It is a great spell. My only debate is the Giresta one. When they remove the death count I think I'm gonna get it. It's a life saver (pun intended http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif). Also I don't know about Twin Claws. They only have one good PA.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 11, 2007, 05:21 PM
On 2007-06-11 14:17, Lamak wrote:
Nice guide. You can learn alot from it. And I have to agree about megiverse. It is a great spell. My only debate is the Giresta one. When they remove the death count I think I'm gonna get it. It's a life saver (pun intended http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif). Also I don't know about Twin Claws. They only have one good PA.



As a WT? never going to happen. As long as Moon Xs are windely available in plyer shops, drops, synth boards, etc. I'll carry a stack of 10, and save the pp.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Tra
Jun 11, 2007, 07:40 PM
I really don't mind the rest of the guide, but I really don't suggest megiverse as a WT.

Megiverse and gi-techs cost about the same, I don't have exact numbers, but when I get home I can calculate exactly how much. I'm talking 150PP for the full duration of a megiverse (5 ticks) and 30 x 5 PP for 5 gi-tech casts.

Now that's out of the way, you can only use megiverse on very, very weak, underleveled monsters (unless you have a 50% armor or so), where you won't be flinched when you get hit. If anything does more than 5% of your maximum HP, your megiverse stops. Much more trouble since lv11 megiverse isn't all that big either, one hit those monsters will be coming right at you.

Plus the damage is nowhere near great and no status effects.

Oh well, up to you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

SolomonGrundy
Jun 11, 2007, 08:07 PM
On 2007-06-11 17:40, Tra wrote:
I really don't mind the rest of the guide, but I really don't suggest megiverse as a WT.

Megiverse and gi-techs cost about the same, I don't have exact numbers, but when I get home I can calculate exactly how much. I'm talking 150PP for the full duration of a megiverse (5 ticks) and 30 x 5 PP for 5 gi-tech casts.

Now that's out of the way, you can only use megiverse on very, very weak, underleveled monsters (unless you have a 50% armor or so), where you won't be flinched when you get hit. If anything does more than 5% of your maximum HP, your megiverse stops. Much more trouble since lv11 megiverse isn't all that big either, one hit those monsters will be coming right at you.

Plus the damage is nowhere near great and no status effects.

Oh well, up to you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



3 things

1. megiverse has a wider AoE than Gi Techs.
2. WTs have more significantly more HP than fT's. 5% of 2000 is more than 5% of 1200. speaking of HP, megiverse does have an SE - HP drain.
3. The damage is 'good' against light creatures, and this tech is often used in party where there are distractions.

by way of example I can speed run Sleeping warriors B at a 'mere' level 45, with 27% te-senba/deband, and get hit for zeros.
Diga, damabarta, and megiverse ruin that. I've been running Crimson A since I could get into the mission, and attaching Megiverse to a majimra, gives me almost 300 hp of damage per tick, and I can usually get 2 ticks in AND MOVE http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

All that being said, this is WarTecher, not ForteTecher. I don't expect HUGE number from this tech, and I think if you approach it with this mindset, you'll be pleased.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-06-11 18:09 ]</font>

Tra
Jun 11, 2007, 08:16 PM
You know what? you're right. Golmoros don't hit hard at all! haha. Lv85 ones, only 60 damage with a 28% light yamata. So whatever, until lv100+ comes I wouldn't know. I was thinking since everything in sealab A does 500+ ya know?

oh well! lol

Lamak
Jun 12, 2007, 07:46 AM
Hm...I kinda noticed you didn't mention megid. Or maybe you did that on purpose...lol.
Anyways there seems to be no good melee weapon for wartecher. Tips?

panzer_unit
Jun 12, 2007, 08:29 AM
Spears, Claws, Sabers. Knuckles for crowd control. You can go into the low-ATP multihit stuff if you've got high base ATP or buff/debuff all the time.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 12, 2007, 01:26 PM
On 2007-06-12 05:46, Lamak wrote:
Hm...I kinda noticed you didn't mention megid. Or maybe you did that on purpose...lol.
Anyways there seems to be no good melee weapon for wartecher. Tips?



you are RIGHT :-0 I did forget megids. Hrm. ok, here it is now:

Megids: I was originally goign to write something smarmy and sarcastic about this tech, but I will approach it more objectively. This tech penetrates, has a high damage modifier (higher than RA techs, even!), and it's special (incapacitate), it useful vs low stamina enemies. It has two downsides, one of which can be overcome. 1) You can't move while it remains on the screen (unlike, say, barta) 2) It's QUITE expensive (65 pp at level 11+).
Even if you go grab an insanely ground cometarac (at +10 you could use Megids 18 times, before it ran dry) I got to thinking about what enemyies you would want to use this tech on. And my answer was...the light-type aggeta's in holy ground (low stamina, and they swarm), and olaka's that you can catch in a hallyway (medium stamina, non tech resistant). Robots you don't feel like using elemental attacks on.

I'm just not convinced the pp usage is worth those cases.

JAFO22000
Jun 12, 2007, 02:31 PM
On 2007-06-11 18:07, SolomonGrundy wrote:

On 2007-06-11 17:40, Tra wrote:
I really don't mind the rest of the guide, but I really don't suggest megiverse as a WT.

Megiverse and gi-techs cost about the same, I don't have exact numbers, but when I get home I can calculate exactly how much. I'm talking 150PP for the full duration of a megiverse (5 ticks) and 30 x 5 PP for 5 gi-tech casts.

Now that's out of the way, you can only use megiverse on very, very weak, underleveled monsters (unless you have a 50% armor or so), where you won't be flinched when you get hit. If anything does more than 5% of your maximum HP, your megiverse stops. Much more trouble since lv11 megiverse isn't all that big either, one hit those monsters will be coming right at you.

Plus the damage is nowhere near great and no status effects.

Oh well, up to you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



3 things

1. megiverse has a wider AoE than Gi Techs.
2. WTs have more significantly more HP than fT's. 5% of 2000 is more than 5% of 1200. speaking of HP, megiverse does have an SE - HP drain.
3. The damage is 'good' against light creatures, and this tech is often used in party where there are distractions.

by way of example I can speed run Sleeping warriors B at a 'mere' level 45, with 27% te-senba/deband, and get hit for zeros.
Diga, damabarta, and megiverse ruin that. I've been running Crimson A since I could get into the mission, and attaching Megiverse to a majimra, gives me almost 300 hp of damage per tick, and I can usually get 2 ticks in AND MOVE http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

All that being said, this is WarTecher, not ForteTecher. I don't expect HUGE number from this tech, and I think if you approach it with this mindset, you'll be pleased.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-06-11 18:09 ]</font>


You may also want to add that Megiverse can quickly pull creature aggro to you....if you get a large group of enemies, hit them with some megiverse to make them come towards you (and away from your comrades!), then you can multi-hit them with twin daggers/twin swords/whateveryouwanttouse....much less scary for a WT to do this than a FT due to the higher HP, ATP and DFP!!!

Shiro_Ryuu
Jun 12, 2007, 06:14 PM
On 2007-06-12 06:29, panzer_unit wrote:
Spears, Claws, Sabers. Knuckles for crowd control. You can go into the low-ATP multihit stuff if you've got high base ATP or buff/debuff all the time.



I agree, although I'm not an elitist, Beasts are best with Twin Daggers, and Newmans are best off not using them, and using Single Daggers and Spears instead, although I don't hold it against someone to use Twin Daggers on a Newman.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 12, 2007, 06:24 PM
I'm starting to believe that zalure in certain missions is one of the more important techs in a WTs aresenal. 'King' type enemies take 1/2 damage from everything and a lot of fTs get busy casting attack techs. Using a 15% debuff on large HP enemies, mini-bosses and Kings really helps bring hem down faster.

15% faster could be the difference between A, and S rank on a FireBreak mission, too.

panzer_unit
Jun 12, 2007, 07:04 PM
How much damage do debuffs really add?

Say I've got knuckles, 2 spears, a bow, and a healstick on my palette. That leaves 1 more wand I can carry... which buff and debuff techs offer the most performance when we're talking about those limited spots? I'm actually kinda bugged about having all these options. Initially I saved myself some space by not even learning buffs but after going for a while as the only techer on many teams I joined, and everyone being too poor to use 'rides, I picked up the buff techs.

I'm guessing that if I've got to pick one of Shifta or Zalure, I'm guessing Shifta is worth more. Player ATP is always a bigger factor than monster DFP, right?
On the opposite side of the coin, I'm guessing Jellen does more to reduce damage than Zalure?
Zodial / Zoldeel... I've got no idea on this one. ATA and EVP seem to vary wildly and there's no indication of how big a part monster stats play either.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 12, 2007, 07:24 PM
you've got too many melee weapons on the palette. there should be room for at least 3 wands. Sometimes 4. For a Cast:

1 spear/knux/other
1 bow
wand
wand
wand
1 handed melee weapon

resta, reverser, 2 buffs and leaves 2 slots for you.

Lamak
Jun 12, 2007, 08:58 PM
I <3 my palette. Human Male
Bow
Twin Daggers/Fists
Attack Wand
Wand (Zalure/Resta)
Wand (R/D)
Wand (S/Z)

Pillan
Jun 13, 2007, 12:01 AM
On 2007-06-12 17:24, SolomonGrundy wrote:
you've got too many melee weapons on the palette. there should be room for at least 3 wands. Sometimes 4. For a Cast:

1 spear/knux/other
1 bow
wand
wand
wand
1 handed melee weapon

resta, reverser, 2 buffs and leaves 2 slots for you.


I'd disagree with the bow on Cast WT. You deal more damage/time with a handgun (which is actually the highest damage/time a WT has on ranged weapons) and more effects/time with a card. I'd assume handguns deal more damage with Newman as well since it was true for my Caseal even after I switched her to fT.

I would suggest just pairing a handgun or card with the 1 hand melee and putting another melee in that slot. My normal set up was 3 daggers paired with handguns or cards, depending on the area, and 3 wands (buff and heal) paired with guns. Spears are nice, but I erased all those skills after I decided to prepare her for aT. Honestly, if you were going to use 1 melee weapon as WT, I’d say go with spears; for two: spears and daggers.

I'm not very big on Zalure because it only adds around 20 damage/attack when dealing with the level 100+ mobs, but that's because DFP is a lot lower than ATP. That being said, Jellen helps a lot.

VanHalen
Jun 13, 2007, 12:08 AM
On 2007-06-12 16:14, Shiroryuu wrote:

On 2007-06-12 06:29, panzer_unit wrote:
Spears, Claws, Sabers. Knuckles for crowd control. You can go into the low-ATP multihit stuff if you've got high base ATP or buff/debuff all the time.



I agree, although I'm not an elitist, Beasts are best with Twin Daggers, and Newmans are best off not using them, and using Single Daggers and Spears instead, although I don't hold it against someone to use Twin Daggers on a Newman.



I'll agree to that one. One of the reasons why I never use twin daggers on my Newman FF.

panzer_unit
Jun 13, 2007, 08:53 AM
On 2007-06-12 17:24, SolomonGrundy wrote:
you've got too many melee weapons on the palette. there should be room for at least 3 wands.

Last thing I ever expected to hear for a cast character. Speaking of that tho, I did exactly that last night... swapped my third crozier in for my bow. 6 slots for techs makes life MUCH easier than 4.

Knuckles (zubba)
Mukarad (robado)
Mukarad (daggas)
python + crozier (resta/reverser)
python + crozier (shifta/jellen or zodial/zoldeel)
crozier (ra + gi/dam/nos tech) ... no handgun so I can recharge better off the palette

Shiro_Ryuu
Jun 13, 2007, 09:18 AM
My pallete on my female newman:
Wand/Gun
Wand/Gun
Wand/Gun
Dagger/Gun
Dagger/Gun
Dagger or Wand/Gun

SolomonGrundy
Jun 13, 2007, 04:35 PM
For a newman I actually recommend 4 wands. Ultimate tech versatility, and I *still* carry back up wands to make the msot use of situational techs..

I do NOT recommend pistols. I have a pistol for my Fortefighter: it's his only option. WTs have 2 other. If you do not favor the bow (foolish, IMO), then cards outdamage pistols every day of the week. more elemental, with the same ATP, and 2 card blades. I recommend bow for 2 reasons: armor piercing, and range/first person.

Zalure is a great debuff. 15% defense down vs. enemies that have high defense is at least 20 points of damage, and can be as high as 50. Does not sound like much until you think about shotgun, card, crossbow, and machine gun users...or hitting an enemy with 3 or more hit locations. 60-150 extra per hit adds up, and it takes only a second to apply.

Jellen is also useful, but I don't see many people dying from physical damage. It always tech damage that kills (with the exception of the two headed dragon). If there was a tech debuff, I would HIGHLY recommend it, but there is not.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-06-13 14:38 ]</font>

Shiro_Ryuu
Jun 13, 2007, 05:47 PM
Yeah, I think Newmans really get something going for them in AoI for the same reason you said Solomon, cuz instead of using Wands, they can ditch those and just use Dagger or Saber or Claw + Madoog Combos, and maybe a longbow and/or Kikami and blade or wand. I still say that Wartechers really have not that much use for wands anymore unless there was a magical way to have a blade and a wand at the same time, but for Wartechers, who are melee and magic, blade + shadoog works better cuz you can then make the most of your Warteching talents, like more room for nukes, heals, and at the same time, more blade, and you won't have to switch your pallete like crazy.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 13, 2007, 06:27 PM
I think the niggest change for WTs from AoI is that the support role for WTs will chance completely.

level 20 buffs/debuffs are second best now. They will be 4th best (ie. the worst), in the expansion. I probably won't even put a buff/debuff wand on my palette once AoI hits, unless I am soloing.

Also, level 30 techs hurt WTs in some ways. the higher level techs come with higher PP costs, and a) madoogs have low pp b) WTs do not gain access to rods (though S rank wands become possibilities).

Shiro_Ryuu
Jun 13, 2007, 06:52 PM
Yeah, more nuking weapons, and the resta, even though the worst, can at least be good for yourself.

CelestialBlade
Jun 13, 2007, 09:26 PM
I just hit WT on my level 10 Newearl, Rika (yes, ripoff intentional). Since most of my friends don't have alts this low-levelled, I'm finding it a little hard to find a good place to solo for a while, until I can start using decent weapons. My palette consists of Knuckles, Saber+Handgun, Attack technic Wand, 2 Buff Wands, and a Healing Wand. Where's a good place to solo?

God I wish I didn't have to wait till like level 60 to use Twin Claws.

KiteWolfwood
Jun 13, 2007, 10:03 PM
It just seems Acrotecher is going to be a Wartecher+, or am I missing something? Giving Wartecher S wands while also giving them 30 skills? It seems like it should have been S rank madoogs if they want Wartecher to be a melee techer mix. Well anyway it seems my Newmen will be an Acrotecher come expansion since it seems to synergize better with Newmens natural stats and how I want to play a Wartecher.

My bad if this should go somewhere else but I am just curious if they even know what they are doing with Wartecher.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KiteWolfwood on 2007-06-13 20:04 ]</font>

Tsavo
Jun 13, 2007, 11:09 PM
^WT seems to be on the path(or at least close)to becoming the PSO humar, decent melee with a few techs and a heal stick while aT seems to be closer to the meleeing FOs of old. Classes aren't quite as rigid this time around so of course you don't have to play them that way but that's how it looks to me at least.

Nice guide Solo. Makes me want to pick up a HPC for my Newm WT now though, I didn't know that a unit could make such a difference. I wonder if it would make my Creasabra a viable weapon? Guess I'll have to wait and see.

panzer_unit
Jun 14, 2007, 08:52 AM
For AOI wartecher, I can totally see something like this:

Knuckles
Spear
Bow
Madoog + Dagger (resta+reverser for fast resta... quantity over quality)
Madoog + Dagger (front-line debuffs)
Card + Wand (attack techs where TP matters most)

SolomonGrundy
Jun 14, 2007, 01:29 PM
I just hit WT on my level 10 Newearl, Rika (yes, ripoff intentional). Since most of my friends don't have alts this low-levelled, I'm finding it a little hard to find a good place to solo for a while, until I can start using decent weapons. My palette consists of Knuckles, Saber+Handgun, Attack technic Wand, 2 Buff Wands, and a Healing Wand. Where's a good place to solo?

yeah, you hit it far too early. I suggest sleeping warriors C (no tech resistant enemies, good enemy density)



It just seems Acrotecher is going to be a Wartecher+, or am I missing something? Giving Wartecher S wands while also giving them 30 skills? It seems like it should have been S rank madoogs if they want Wartecher to be a melee techer mix. Well anyway it seems my Newmen will be an Acrotecher come expansion since it seems to synergize better with Newmens natural stats and how I want to play a Wartecher.

My bad if this should go somewhere else but I am just curious if they even know what they are doing with Wartecher.

Depends on what you are looking for. AT certainly does not replace WT, if you want to get with the melee. Remember, ATs have only level 20 skills, the lowest ATP of any melee class, and no access to many of the great melee weapons of the game (Spear, knuckles, twin saber, claws).

That being said, it's a good class, and a viable option for those wanting to tech, but not fortetech.

I still consider Wartecher to be a Hunewearl, and looks like AT will me more like FOmar/l

Allison_W
Jun 15, 2007, 07:26 AM
Gets me to wondering if, while twin daggers aren't great options for newman WTs, they might be good options for newman ATs cranking the L41+ Shifta and Zalure.

Jakosifer
Jun 15, 2007, 07:32 AM
On 2007-06-14 11:29, SolomonGrundy wrote:

I just hit WT on my level 10 Newearl, Rika (yes, ripoff intentional). Since most of my friends don't have alts this low-levelled, I'm finding it a little hard to find a good place to solo for a while, until I can start using decent weapons. My palette consists of Knuckles, Saber+Handgun, Attack technic Wand, 2 Buff Wands, and a Healing Wand. Where's a good place to solo?

yeah, you hit it far too early. I suggest sleeping warriors C (no tech resistant enemies, good enemy density)



It just seems Acrotecher is going to be a Wartecher+, or am I missing something? Giving Wartecher S wands while also giving them 30 skills? It seems like it should have been S rank madoogs if they want Wartecher to be a melee techer mix. Well anyway it seems my Newmen will be an Acrotecher come expansion since it seems to synergize better with Newmens natural stats and how I want to play a Wartecher.

My bad if this should go somewhere else but I am just curious if they even know what they are doing with Wartecher.

Depends on what you are looking for. AT certainly does not replace WT, if you want to get with the melee. Remember, ATs have only level 20 skills, the lowest ATP of any melee class, and no access to many of the great melee weapons of the game (Spear, knuckles, twin saber, claws).

That being said, it's a good class, and a viable option for those wanting to tech, but not fortetech.

I still consider Wartecher to be a Hunewearl, and looks like AT will me more like FOmar/l



This is exactly what I was thinking when people kept saying AT is going to replace WT. For starters, AT has the 2nd lowest Atp in the game, only higher than Fortetecher iirc. That in itself, completely negates ANY reason to use melee weapons, unless at lower levels. Since Wartecher come AoI can use lvl 30 Skills, it will outdamage AT in terms of physical damage easily. And don't give me that speed dagger crap, Twin Daggers are one of the, if not lowest Atp modifiers of the melee weapons, a 20% boost on a low atp class with lvl 20 skills won't even come close to WT (Even with lvl 50 support -_-). Spell damage is probably around the same, seeing as how both get lvl 30 TECHS. The only real thing that Acrotecher has on WT, is its lvl 50 support, which is of course, what AT seems to be meant for in the first place.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jakomay_07 on 2007-06-15 05:33 ]</font>

Pillan
Jun 15, 2007, 10:28 AM
When I did the actual calculation in the AT thread (found here (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=141833&forum=22&start=15&30#17)), the maximum difference between AT and WT damage is only about 5% in the long run (it would probably jump to on the order of 7-8% with enemies closer to the character’s level). However, it wouldn’t surprise me if AT can outdamage WT just because of S rank sabers (Sabers are a bit more than 1 rank weaker than spears, so the 12+ star saber will clearly out damage a WT’s 9 star spear).

There are 2 clear advantages to WT in solo as of the beta: full 2 hand melee skills (but only twin daggers to S rank) and higher HP. AT already has 60% more base ATA, 18% more base TP, and 50% more base EVP and MST. Deband clearly corrects the 11% DFP gap between AT and WT with armor equipped.

I won’t even discuss the clear advantages AT has in both ranged and tech damage solo.

Of course, that’s only a comparison in solo. If the WT is in a party with a better buffer (such as an AT), the damage gap increases a lot more, but that makes me wonder why you wouldn’t further increase that damage gap by switching to any of the higher power melee classes, such as FG, fF, AF, or even PT (yeah, even though PT has 4% less base ATP, it gains an additional 10-20% total attack from the 40 skill cap) since someone else is buffing. Access to S wands decreases the magic gap as well (Madoogs have about 7% less TP than the equivalent YC wand and wands more than double the TP by the time you can use them, so WT and AT are actually about equal in terms of magic damage with a team that has the same buff level), but why not just increase that as an fT? And then when you add in that everyone in the party is doing around 16% more damage thanks to the AT in your party while the melee damage gap is only around 20%, well, you’ll probably start to feel obsolete.

But, yeah, that’s just my analysis of how I see WT as getting the short end even with its increases in the beta. And that’s also why Thelxione is jumping on the AT boat as soon as it arrives at the dock.

panzer_unit
Jun 15, 2007, 12:15 PM
Pillan, people used to give arguments exactly like this as to why Protransers were unplayable gimps. Un-surprisingly it turned out that they're NOT better off choosing one of Fortefighter and Fortegunner and sticking with it. From what I've seen it's generally the case that mid-tier melee damage will keep pace with top-tier tech and ranged damage except against melee-resistant enemies. In those cases (and others of course, but let's just talk damage output since it's not as situational) you've got additional abilities that let you outperform a fortefighter to some degree.

Melee PA's simply have more damage multipliers stacked on them... the average melee PA is both multi-hit and multi-target, sometimes with additional damage modifiers stacked on. The last move on Bogga Danga for example is difficult to execute perfectly but potentially deals 1800% of total ATP (BD is 150% ATP or so ... x 2 hits x 3 targets x double damage modifier for that part of the combo)

For Wartecher in AoI, the advantage the class DOES have versus other techers is a significant one. Think of it more as a fF with SE3 attack techs (and quick resta/reverser on a madoog) than a Fortetecher with melee, because melee PA damage is the best option whenever it is an option. They'll also team better. You don't get any benefit from multiple AT's with lv41+ (de)buffs... classes oriented towards raw damage output stack extremely well.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-06-15 10:23 ]</font>

Pillan
Jun 15, 2007, 01:07 PM
On 2007-06-15 10:15, panzer_unit wrote:
Pillan, people used to give arguments exactly like this as to why Protransers were unplayable gimps. Un-surprisingly it turned out that they're NOT better off choosing one of Fortefighter and Fortegunner and sticking with it. From what I've seen it's generally the case that mid-tier melee damage will keep pace with top-tier tech and ranged damage except against melee-resistant enemies. In those cases (and others of course, but let's just talk damage output since it's not as situational) you've got additional abilities that let you outperform a fortefighter to some degree.


I would never have argued that Protranser is weak (for the same reason I called them clearly stronger than WT in the AoI beta). I mean look at it: it can use ALL the high power weapons besides rifles and rods AND gets all traps. Of course an axe or spear spamming PT can keep up with an fT or fG in a party and I’m actually surprised there are people that can’t see it.

The difference here is PT has a great weapon distribution plus traps and it gains all those weapons to S, new traps, and a 28% ATP boost in the AoI beta (I won’t really consider the PA increase because the only classes that change their relative PA levels are WT and GT). WT, on the other hand loses its status of second highest buff level while just gaining the third combo in 2 hand melee (the ATP growth isn’t very significant since every other class grows by at least that much but the TP growth is pretty good).

But, yeah, WT has a clear advantage over fF in solo and that’s the main reason I only compared WT to AT in that area. Resta, infinite buffs, better ranged weapons choices, and technique skill (plus you’ll get those 4+ enemies needed for techs to out damage melee while soloing). WT looks pretty good solo wise, but I’m only arguing that AT looks better.


On 2007-06-15 10:15, panzer_unit wrote:
Melee PA's simply have more damage multipliers stacked on them... the average melee PA is both multi-hit and multi-target, sometimes with additional damage modifiers stacked on. The last move on Bogga Danga for example is difficult to execute perfectly but potentially deals 1800% of total ATP (BD is 150% ATP or so ... x 2 hits x 3 targets x double damage modifier for that part of the combo)


The relative damage between moves doesn’t change though. All 2 or 3 parts of the combo are increased or decreased by whatever amount the first move is increased to my knowledge (there might be an exception, but I know this is true with ever melee PA I’ve used, which only leaves out a couple ultimates and axe skills). As I mentioned earlier though, WT does have a clear advantage with 2 hand melee, but I also mentioned that twin daggers are their only 2 hand S rank, so it’s really the only one that I deem worth considering.

And I really don’t know of any PAs that double the damage modifier. It does get up to like 1.3x on some skills (sometimes as much as 1.5x by the last move), but I’ve never seen double (unless you’re assuming the second attack gets a critical).

My point is simply that it doesn’t change the relative damage between the classes that much, unless you’re dealing with an extremely high DFP enemy or the other class is missing a combo.


On 2007-06-15 10:15, panzer_unit wrote:
For Wartecher in AoI, the advantage the class DOES have versus other techers is a significant one. Think of it more as a fF with SE3 attack techs (and quick resta/reverser on a madoog) than a Fortetecher with melee, because melee PA damage is the best option whenever it is an option. They'll also team better. You don't get any benefit from multiple AT's with lv41+ (de)buffs... classes oriented towards raw damage output stack extremely well.


I agree with you about multiple ATs being a bad thing. A WT is clearly better than a second AT in a party, but I’d still prefer getting an fT and any other melee class to join my party, which really isn’t that hard.


Anyway, I’m getting far too off topic. If anyone wants to continue this little chat, let’s do it in the AT thread (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=141833&forum=22&52).

SolomonGrundy
Jun 15, 2007, 01:19 PM
this being a Newman AT thread, I'd say twin daggers, regardless of rank, is a horrible option.

Pillian, if the question is: Can a WT support a party come AoI? the answer is no. If the question is, who will far better soloing AT or WT? The answer is - there probably isn't much difference, Though I like the idea of casting buffs less frequently. If the question is, does a WT make a meaningful contribution to the party, compared to, say, a Fighgunner, Fortefighter, or Arco Fighter? I'd say definitely so. They have options, AND resta.

That being said, I'm sure I'll double as an AT if the party needs a supporter. level 50 jellen/zalure? Gross. Gib shi-kikami.

panzer_unit
Jun 15, 2007, 03:15 PM
On 2007-06-15 11:07, Pillan wrote:
WT, on the other hand loses its status of second highest buff level while just gaining the third combo in 2 hand melee (the ATP growth isn’t very significant since every other class grows by at least that much but the TP growth is pretty good).


Being the second-highest buff class really doesn't count for much. All it takes is a fT to show up and that job's out of your hands. If anything it's a GOOD thing for WT to lose that role since they can focus more heavily on their significantly improved 2-handed melee and attack techs.

Getting the 3rd part of the combo on 2h melee PA's is extremely significant in some cases. Hence my Bogga Danga example. Assault Crush is another PA where the 3rd hit in the combo is a real power-move. I'd argue that (barring something I don't know like lv31+ melee PA's gaining 2% ATP per level) WT going from 20->30 for skill cap is going to close the gap with other jobs going from 30->40.
(see also: fighgunner getting lv30 bullet skills, SE3 burn on handguns and crossbows specifically)

SolomonGrundy
Jun 15, 2007, 03:24 PM
I think the point is that WT offers a little something for everybody. you want to play a beast, and go heavy melee? Well, you've got good ATP, and level 30 skills.

You want to go newman and play heavy tech? look! Improved TP/MST and SE4 via techs, and level 30 techs. Bows make level 20 bullets look *good*


AT, on the other hand, is pretty light in the melee dept. I think the players of this class are going to find it tech heavy. your second line of defense will likely be ranged (high ATA, and level 30 skills, s rank cards), melee will be short and intermittent. In a world where level 40 skills exist, level 20 skills with 2nd lowest ATP is a poor option.

EDIT: panzer, I disagree. You can easily support with a WT. Most players are just to selfish to do so. Even if it's just shifta, and retirer, and being good about using resta, I don't see the problem. Even Casts are capable of +600 resta, and if you focus is on support, then drop 2 or 3. Easy? No. Doable? Totally.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-06-15 13:28 ]</font>

panzer_unit
Jun 15, 2007, 04:06 PM
Right now my WT's geared for support... it's DOABLE, and anyone waving a healstick around is a big benefit to the party. But the fact of the matter is I've got to shuffle my palette around to include or drop (de)buffs whenever a fT walks in/out of the team. There's no point me wasting palette space on those techs if someone's there who does them and does them better.

fT's who buff, but are lazy about it, are the worst to deal with. Do I keep my wand to cover those minutes until he noticed they've all run out? Swap in a weapon so I'm extra effective when they're on the ball?

SolomonGrundy
Jun 15, 2007, 05:12 PM
On 2007-06-15 14:06, panzer_unit wrote:

fT's who buff, but are lazy about it, are the worst to deal with. Do I keep my wand to cover those minutes until he noticed they've all run out? Swap in a weapon so I'm extra effective when they're on the ball?



that is a pet peeve of mine too. One of the reasons I dumped reverser (so I could always have retrier). The smart WT keeps a few buffs pocketed on 1 wand so he can self buff if needed. As a Cast? Shifta/Deband, or Shifta/Jellen. I usually go with Retier, Deband, Zalure. I can always bow out of melee if I have to. Note too - carrying a stack of megiastrides and putting them on you palette (or if you know you are going to be down one buff, that particular 'ride)

My left palette looks like:
photon charge
antimate
sol atom
<photon Eraser>
dimate
Zodiaride

PALRAPPYS
Jun 15, 2007, 11:05 PM
I find how some people play WarTecher is interesting. Well, might as well show my views on the matter.

Oh, and "Alter" means alternating.

Palette:

Halbenata (Robado) / Dual Durandal (Splendor)
Kikami (Ice) + Ice Sucker (Alter)
Beamgun (Alter) + Grnd Jitseen (Alter)
Beamgun (Alter) + Cometarac (Resta+Reverser)
Cometara (Dambarta+Gibarta)
Septara (Diga+Rafoie) / Hanmateri (Dark)

Well, here's the reasoning behind each one.

Halbenata (Spears)
General good weapon that can hit multiple enemies. Plus, Robado is like a Gi- spell (though only 3 hits) that deals nice damage. I also think the PA looks cool too. XD

Dual Durandal (Twin Sabers)
Good weapon with nice ATP. Multiple hits. Splendor Crush is a strong PA with multiple hits that may add up to massive damage!

Kikami (Cards)
Look... 99damage per hit (2 hits) is pretty good. And hey, all I have to do is get a lock on, press X, and then I can use my sucker. Not bad if I want to stall an enemy for a second either, hm?

Sucker (Daggers)
Don't ask too much... Buten is an aweomse photon art. It just doesn't have any bad points... Shunbu, on the other hand, is good (IMO) but unfortunately the charge time and the 2nd combo aren't always worth it for the damage outcome. Though, it is good to stunlock enemies for a few seconds.

Beamguns (Pistols)
Just a good fast-hitting weapon. Hey, I have all 6 PA's for them. Not bad either. Great to tag an enemy quickly too.

Jitseen (Sabers)
All-around weapon that has great photon arts. Rising can spread enemies away on it's 2nd combo, and Gravity is strong enough to hit enough damage.

Cometarac (Wands)
956 PP=Hawt. 30 PP / resta. That's... 31 restas per Cometarac. Nice, hm? I think I'll manage that way any day. Since resta is a wand PP hog, this nice kubara wand sure helps! I'm glad I recently made this an addition to my palette.

Cometara (Wands)
Hey, it's a strong wand that I use for Dambarta and Gibarta. 2 great spells. There's not much I have to say for this one, really...

Septara (Wands)
Diga is good. What can I say? Plus Rafoie is for those weak-to-tech enemies that I can hit from afar.

Hanmateri (Bows)
Well... okay, it's just for the far away flying enemies like the Shagreece. I don't use this too much, but it is pretty nice to have still.


Oh, and why no buff wand(s) you ask? Meh, why have them when you can have Agitarides? Saves some palette space, plus since when were they expensive?

Just my 2 cents meseta.

Lamak
Jun 17, 2007, 12:23 AM
I actually like giresta. My pallete now is:
Ulteri (Approiate Element)
Gudda Gant (Bogga Robbado)
Majimra +5 (Giresa/Resta)
Cometarac (D/R)
Cometarac (S/Z)

That's a hell of a pallete. And there's room for something else. Shweet.

KiteWolfwood
Jun 17, 2007, 12:29 AM
On 2007-06-15 13:24, SolomonGrundy wrote:
I think the point is that WT offers a little something for everybody. you want to play a beast, and go heavy melee? Well, you've got good ATP, and level 30 skills.

You want to go newman and play heavy tech? look! Improved TP/MST and SE4 via techs, and level 30 techs. Bows make level 20 bullets look *good*


AT, on the other hand, is pretty light in the melee dept. I think the players of this class are going to find it tech heavy. your second line of defense will likely be ranged (high ATA, and level 30 skills, s rank cards), melee will be short and intermittent. In a world where level 40 skills exist, level 20 skills with 2nd lowest ATP is a poor option.

EDIT: panzer, I disagree. You can easily support with a WT. Most players are just to selfish to do so. Even if it's just shifta, and retirer, and being good about using resta, I don't see the problem. Even Casts are capable of +600 resta, and if you focus is on support, then drop 2 or 3. Easy? No. Doable? Totally.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-06-15 13:28 ]</font>


Thing is though if you want to play a newmen heavy tech just go Acrotecher.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 17, 2007, 11:33 PM
Thing is though if you want to play a newmen heavy tech just go Acrotecher.

No, this is not good reasoning. WTs get S rank wands, which will have superior PP (and probably TP) to Madoogs. They also get level 30 attack techs.
The notable lack of S rank weapons (twin dagger and dagger), should indicate that this class isn't meant to go melee-only. (not that can't, but with the bonuses the class gets...)
WT-tech heavy is for those players who want to have impact with techs, but not be thin on defense. Great HP/DFP/EVP/MST.




AoI does polarize WT a bit giving it good melee options with the level 30 skills *and* level 20 bullets: 3rd bullet for cards - always handy. At first this made me think that SEGA was sasying "go melee OR tech" but on further reflection I would say that by improving both aspects of the class, SEGA is focusing on the 'jack of all trades' aspect of the class. Makes humans even better choices. They are competent at melee, and have servicable TP.

Personally, I found humans a little light in the MST department, and since that is a defensive stat that actually works, I wanted a race to take advantage of it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-06-17 21:35 ]</font>

LTrav2k
Jun 18, 2007, 10:59 AM
I totally forgot about the 'ride buffs!! So for solo purposes, there's really only a 10% difference between acrotecher buffs and wartecher buffs (depending on how many you carry). Sure, we have lesser buffs for a back up... but the improvement in attack techs will really shine since you could carry quick debuffs and resta on a madoog.

How big is the difference in MST Solomon? I didn't think it'd be that significant to be honest.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 18, 2007, 12:40 PM
On 2007-06-18 08:59, LTrav2k wrote:

How big is the difference in MST Solomon? I didn't think it'd be that significant to be honest.



it's significant, here are the stat bonues in AoI
WT 10: 112%
AT 10: 130%
fT 10: 144%

When you stack the level 41+ retrier on top of that there is a clear advantage in AT techs. Again though, what's going to happen when a tech resistant creature is encountered?

The playing field evens out: if it's something like a jarba...well, level 30 card bullets ARE pretty nice: advantage AT

If it's something like Kog Nad, level 30 skills and higher ATP are pretty nice: advantage WT.

It's also possible that ATs will have enough power to plow over some tech resistant enemies: ageeta, for example. I would still recommend WTs switch to a melee weapon, since they have the stats/skills to take advantage in this area.

Hero-Break
Jun 18, 2007, 02:22 PM
Wow Solomon, Great guid thanks for posting, though I am a rather high Newman WT myself (7/10) I still found this guide to be helpfull, however, on your comment with Card Bullets, I think you are mistaken, I think they only get the 3rd Bulllet at 21+ and not 11+.

Also, I think people are missing one very important point about AT, and that is that they are not ment to be a primary meele class but a class that can lean on meele in certain sistuations, several people who have played them in AoI have stated this and yet many people still see AT as being on par with WT meele, which is just not the case. The reason why Im sticking with WT in AoI is becuase I want my newamn to be able to do signficant damage with meele, and WTs higher ATP and PAs really help Newmans out when compared to ATs stats and lv 20 PA cap. Also, I thought ATs only get lv 20 bullets?

And finally, when do you play? itwould be great to be able to party with you, Newman WTs FTW!!!111 (okay that was stupid but yeah...>.>)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hero-Break on 2007-06-18 12:23 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hero-Break on 2007-06-19 12:56 ]</font>

SolomonGrundy
Jun 18, 2007, 04:17 PM
if you are on the 360 you can finding me on uni 15, running around with some of the folks from PSOW.

...except right now, I'm being very lame and running the firebreak mission, over, and over, and over trying to get a puyoment aura.

:-/

LTrav2k
Jun 19, 2007, 12:54 PM
You know, the more I think about it... I'm not sure it'd be good to compare wartechers to acrotechers for much of anything. There's a melee/tech hybrid, but are much closer to FT while WT are closer to FF now. Right now I'm putting my thoughts together of the two in solo situations.

Both get the benefit of enhanced MST... wartechers are going to be able to draw damage reduction from just having higher raw stats on their armor (due to higher DEF), while AT will be able to make it up with buffs. They've already said, if you can make something 0 damage then you don't have to worry about status effect percentage http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Both get level 30 attack techs. The important thing to note here is not really the damage difference due to TP, but the fact that level 30 attack techs open up status effect abilities that WT have not been able to take advantage of thus far. I've been seriously thinking about my palette and it's going to change a lot, right now I'm seeing:

Madoog (Gizonde/GiBarta) - one handed weapon
Madoog (Resta/Reverser) - one handed weapon
Two handed weapon
Bow
card - wand (Foie/Shifta)
card - wand (Retier/Giresta)
card - wand (Megiverse/Diga or Ramegid)

I really think this set up is going to take care of business in most general situations. I know that I don't have an accuracy boost up there (I can use a 'ride for that), but I also don't plan to have many accuracy problems because I'll be freezing the mess out of stuff with Level 21+ Gibarta! I also don't plan to be attacked as much because between the blocking ability we have now... I plan to shock the bejeezus out of stuff with Level 21+ Gizonde! I don't care about the damage difference, because as soon as either status effect lands... we commence the beatdown.

Having the bow at the ready for armor penetration sounds much better to me than having to change palettes, and I'd have an easier time changing out the two handed melee weapon than anything else. Also, it's going to be yet another avenue for level 3 status effects.

Between level 20 and level 30 bullets at the moment... there is only a difference of 5% with the elemental damage, and with the cards it's only a 4% difference. Cards stay at level 2 status effects right? So with the differences in raw ATP, I see this as negligible since both classes will have the extra bullet past 11+.

The card/wand combos are still going to be there for me, and the 4% difference in most cases isn't something I'm worried about either... unless I'm shooting for raw damage Foie or Diga.

I only have one question for everybody, do you think that a Madoog would better support resta or Giresta? The only reason I'm saying this is because the heal/revive/regen being available is expensive, but technically it would see a lot more PP regen time that way if it's paired with a one handed weapon. Or let me know if you think it's not going to be really worth it at all.



I haven't gotten a chance outside of videos to see an AT in action, but it really feels like they'll have more to do than stick to combat. They'll be able to quickly apply high level debuffs in order to balance out potential damage, check on the party and then also commence with the beatdown. I'm waiting to see what the true difference between S rank and A rank wands will be... along with A rank and S rank Madoogs.

I can't wait to see them both in action though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Entering the fray with gi spells and level 50 debuffs flying around, and then dropping massive amounts of devastation upon the crippled opposition. It almost sounds like if the two are together, most every job's going to be taken care of.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LTrav2k on 2007-06-19 10:57 ]</font>

SolomonGrundy
Jun 19, 2007, 01:47 PM
I'd forget about using madoog to cast gi spells, unless you plan on consuming mass quntities of photon charges. Madoogs have QUITE a bit less pp than wands, and wands don't have that much pp (compared to rods).

granarodocs have over 1600pp at a low grind. cometaracs have less than 1150 at the same grind value. Also, S rank wands will have more pp, AND more tp - you want to take advantage of this for Gi spells.

I'd use madoogs for cheapie techs (foie/barta/diga). Perhaps a good setup might be a madoog with barta/zalure, or foie+damfoie.

Hero-Break
Jun 19, 2007, 03:10 PM
Oh, your on 360, probably should have looked first >.<, oh well...

Being a Newman, I'm thinking about getting rid of cards altogheter and just focous on using Magdoogs for ranged damage, by using a basic and ra techs on magdoogs I can see it being a much better off handed ranged weapon than cards alone. Of coure for tech resistant things, I'm keeping bows, but since I wont be using cards I will have some free spots left for any PAs I want to use when AoI hits, this would be very handy should ST decied to keep the PA system the way it is now...

Tsavo
Jun 19, 2007, 03:34 PM
But you'll get increased elemental %'s, three cards instead of 2 per hit, and the WT's increased atp (compared to other card wielders) on top of that. Getting rid of all them seems like such a waste.

SolomonGrundy
Jun 19, 2007, 03:53 PM
On 2007-06-19 13:10, Hero-Break wrote:
Oh, your on 360, probably should have looked first >.<, oh well...

Being a Newman, I'm thinking about getting rid of cards altogheter and just focous on using Magdoogs for ranged damage, by using a basic and ra techs on magdoogs I can see it being a much better off handed ranged weapon than cards alone. Of coure for tech resistant things, I'm keeping bows, but since I wont be using cards I will have some free spots left for any PAs I want to use when AoI hits, this would be very handy should ST decied to keep the PA system the way it is now...



that's crazy talk. Look, bows have thier place, but that place is often BEHIND cards. especially if you are making use of the Ageha-senba set, or if you are using a hard power charge. Even with 2 blades cards equal a bow vs most targets, and with three blades they will exceed. Cards give enhanced mobility as well. Also keep in mind that zalure does not help a bow's damage.

Bows are superior vs bosses, especially onces like Onmagog, where they are in flight much of the battle. Or they are useful vs enemies like Maggas, once his bottom breaks. Good vs. very high DFP targets (buffed jarbas, for-ex), they can also outperform cards...but since I got my ageha-kikami's, I've taken my bow of the palette. it's in my inventory, but is more situational.

*hugs kikami's closely*

LTrav2k
Jun 19, 2007, 10:43 PM
On 2007-06-19 11:47, SolomonGrundy wrote:
I'd forget about using madoog to cast gi spells, unless you plan on consuming mass quntities of photon charges. Madoogs have QUITE a bit less pp than wands, and wands don't have that much pp (compared to rods).

granarodocs have over 1600pp at a low grind. cometaracs have less than 1150 at the same grind value. Also, S rank wands will have more pp, AND more tp - you want to take advantage of this for Gi spells.

I'd use madoogs for cheapie techs (foie/barta/diga). Perhaps a good setup might be a madoog with barta/zalure, or foie+damfoie.







So is the regen on the Madoogs so bad that it wouldn't help that you would be meleeing with that weapon? I was thinking of using the wands for stuff that I really really want to crank out damage with (diga/foie/dam spells). The status effects for the gi spells are to make the melee part easier. Unless the TP's so low that I'm not damaging stuff with my gi spells to cause the status effect, I don't see the issue.

I mean, if the regen's so awful that it won't be able to support the gi spells then I'll have to change.

Hero-Break
Jun 19, 2007, 11:50 PM
Ah, thats ture, geez its hard being a WT and balnce so many PAs, but again, I stress, don't cards >only< get 3 bullets after 21+ and not 11+?

SolomonGrundy
Jun 20, 2007, 04:29 AM
On 2007-06-19 21:50, Hero-Break wrote:
Ah, thats ture, geez its hard being a WT and balnce so many PAs, but again, I stress, don't cards >only< get 3 bullets after 21+ and not 11+?




cards get 3 bullets at level 11.


Also:
PP regen is not really a solution when it comes to expensive techs, you'll deplete a lot faster tha you replenish. now, if we were taling about melee PAs that are light on the pp, AND techs that were light on the pp (second dagger, and barta, for example), then you could lean more heavily on pp regen.

When cranking out level 21+ gizonde, you are only going to regen maybe 1 extra castin by the time the madoog is out.

Hero-Break
Jun 20, 2007, 09:11 AM
Ah, alright, Thanks for the information, for some reason I thought cards only got 3 bullets after 21+...

And in response to your comment, I was planning on mainly using simple techs on a magdoog, techs like Barta and Zonde will own when they (magdoogs) come out becuase you can do like 500+ damage to like 6 targets for like 15 or so PP per cast, this coupled with the new Yhomi (dont know how to spell it XD) A rank sabers could be a blessing for PP balancing. But your comments will make me rethink what I need... Again thank for the info.