lol, sony, there goes bluray [Archive]

Tweengo

Jun 18, 2007, 08:59 AM

lollollol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Up yours Sony Fanboys. The PS3 is still doing bad too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Don't know how it's doing here (UK), but I saw that the DS and Wii were both in top positions in the US monthly hardware sales charts, with the DS selling over 400,000 and the Wii over 300,000. The PS3 sold lower than 85,000 units http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif And now the Blu Ray may be useless. I hope this Disc Rot becomes a wide spread problem, as it's all a Rip-off.

P.S To Sony's credit, they did finally manage to outsell the GBA....but only just above 1000, about 1080 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Seriously I can't believe that's the first time they beat the GBA since the PS3 came out in the US. Up yours rip-off PS3, and to all you shallow Sony Fanboys who think graphics beats gameplay http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif LMAO

P.P.S Well the author did say this is a Sony Bashing thread, so I'm Sony bashing http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

DurakkenX

Jun 18, 2007, 10:15 AM

I think it's dumb as most of the super big studios in the movie industry are supporting blu-ray, but all the smaller, medium, and decently big studios are supporting HD. So you'll see a title like spiderman and pirates on blu-ray, but just about everything else is on HD...basically if everyone goes to the movie theatres blu-ray is worthless as only the "big" titles are released on it and most people either DL them or go watch them at the theatre.

Kent

Jun 18, 2007, 12:07 PM

On 2007-06-18 06:59, Tweengo wrote:
lollollol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Up yours Sony Fanboys. The PS3 is still doing bad too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Don't know how it's doing here (UK), but I saw that the DS and Wii were both in top positions in the US monthly hardware sales charts, with the DS selling over 400,000 and the Wii over 300,000. The PS3 sold lower than 85,000 units http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif And now the Blu Ray may be useless. I hope this Disc Rot becomes a wide spread problem, as it's all a Rip-off.

Last I heard, the Wii was outselling the PS3 at a 5:1 ratio in both Japan and Europe. :/

Wyndham

Jun 18, 2007, 01:56 PM

I really don't like Sony. so, yippee skippee!

Powder Keg

Jun 18, 2007, 02:35 PM

I wouldn't normally bash Sony as much as I currently am, but did anyone else happen to catch some of the marketing wigs before the release? They questioned the fact that it wasn't being advertised/marketed very well and you know what their response was?

"We don't need to market it. This will market itself."

LMFAO @ that.

I think we finally discovered how far people will go when it comes to buying new hardware. A lot out there were iffy about the 360's 400-dollar tag, but once a 600-dollar system hit the shelves, everyone pretty much said "Fuck that." I think even very few hardcore gamers have this system, although that will probably increase when more titles come out, but the other half have to be long-coat rich casual gamers who only get Madden and Tiger Woods.

Overall I'm glad the PS3 got the reaction it did. Fuck Sony and their Blu-ray. No one wants to dish out that kind of money for a few teenie-weenie improvements. The PS2 was money...they grew an ego and thought they could do anything as a result. It bit them in the ass. RIIIIIDGE RACER!

[ This Message was edited by: Artea on 2007-06-18 12:37 ]

amtalx

Jun 18, 2007, 04:14 PM

Beta = Mini-Disc = UMD = Blu-ray

Sinue_v2

Jun 18, 2007, 05:05 PM

I have no great love for Sony, but I would rather wait to see if this problem is a defect in the manufacturing process or the design process. Manufacturing errors are easy to fix, and likely due to a temporary machining problem or defects in raw materials. Design problems are much harder to fix, and are much more widespread.

KodiaX987

Jun 18, 2007, 05:28 PM

In the first comment of the article, someone says his Battlefield 2142 DVD had the same symptoms, so perhaps it is not a problem that's isolated to just Blu-ray discs.

Blitzkommando

Jun 18, 2007, 11:25 PM

Flwl3ssCowboy

Jun 18, 2007, 11:28 PM

FIVE-HUNDRED NINETY NINE US DOLLARS

^Obligatory to ANY Sony bashing thread

DurakkenX

Jun 18, 2007, 11:36 PM

I'll be getting a PS3 eventually...It will replace my PS2.

PS2 was not a big hitter either when you really think about it...almost all of it's games were crap until the last year and before that they were still selling NEW PS1 games... people just overlook that fact, but hey, they are allowed to when spending $600

McLaughlin

Jun 19, 2007, 12:40 AM

On 2007-06-18 21:28, Flwl3ssCowboy wrote:
FIVE-HUNDRED NINETY NINE US DOLLARS

^Obligatory to ANY Sony bashing thread

$750.00-ish CDN. You can't buy the "core" packs anymore, so the 60gb is your only option. And an expensive one.

Blitzkommando

Jun 19, 2007, 01:00 AM

On 2007-06-18 22:40, Obsidian_Knight wrote:

On 2007-06-18 21:28, Flwl3ssCowboy wrote:
FIVE-HUNDRED NINETY NINE US DOLLARS

^Obligatory to ANY Sony bashing thread

$750.00-ish CDN. You can't buy the "core" packs anymore, so the 60gb is your only option. And an expensive one.

Unless you live in South Korea then you can get the 80GB model for around $530 when you convert it to USD.

Tweengo

Jun 19, 2007, 09:11 AM

All we got in the EU was the expensive PS3 and not the cheaper version. Plus, seeing as £1 is roughly $2 in the US, and the PS3 in the US is around $600, the price in the UK should've been around the £300 mark, or close. But instead, as usual, we get charged more. And another thing I hate about how we get treated is the release dates of games. We have to wait around 6 months to a year for a game, when it's already been out for that long in the US and Japan. Sometimes we have to wait longer, even if the game has already been converted to PAL (an example of this is that Nintendo released Animal Crossing in Australia, and they use PAL 'Cubes too. We had to wait 2 YEARS for Nintendo to release AC here, but only because people begged and begged. For this, I sort of want to see Nintendo fail too, or see sales fall anyway for the way they treat us http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif ). Back on topic, I read that when a Sony exec was questioned about why it takes so long for games to be released in EU (I know they have to translate it all before anyone brings that up), they just said that us EU gamers 'don't mind' as we'll 'buy the game anyway'. Hows that for arrogance? And I recently read that the boss of Sony said that games are using about 20% of the PS3s graphics power. I find that hard to believe as 'Crazy' Ken Kutaragi (spelling) said that the PS2 will be able to produce graphics on a par with Disney animation films e.g Shrek http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif I just hope Sony fail bad with the PS3 in EU for the way they treat us. Whew, that was longer than I thought.

P.S Seriously what were Nintendo playing at releasing Animal Crossing in Down Under? They hate Nintendo over there.

[ This Message was edited by: Tweengo on 2007-06-19 07:13 ]

Axispoint

Jun 19, 2007, 09:45 AM

On 2007-06-18 15:05, Sinue_v2 wrote:
I have no great love for Sony, but I would rather wait to see if this problem is a defect in the manufacturing process or the design process. Manufacturing errors are easy to fix, and likely due to a temporary machining problem or defects in raw materials. Design problems are much harder to fix, and are much more widespread.

Wonder if it's a material problem, as they use this for the discs:

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?newsID=5571

It's rare, but the company I work for uses the same brand for some of their products (Bayer Makrolon) and has gotten bad material before. And it also could have been a contaminate (that got in at the facility that makes the discs) or even just someone setting something up wrong during production.

These discs are also made with injection molding, which I am quite familiar with (it's what I do for a living, run those things):

http://www.cdman.com/bluray_dualdisc_manufacturing.html

Very easy to have one setting slightly get changed and end up screwing something up (and on lenses, which use polycarb as their material, it's recommended very strongly we let them cool before looking at them, as some defects don't show up until they are cool, which the blu-ray problem sounds like something similiar, also it could also be a contaminant, too, which we've had parts come back due to contaminants getting on the lenses, like dust, for example).

Well, I guess I better stop writing so darn much and go to sleep or something :-/ LOL.

RoninJoku

Jun 19, 2007, 11:52 AM

Don't get to excited about this turn of events yet either. I mean I want blu-ray to fail as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean I'm going to usher every hurdle for the media type as its impending doom.

Point is, Blockbuster just announced that they will be stocking Blu-ray and will not carry HD-DVD at all. Also, it's no secret that microsofts HD-DVD attatchment isn't really a hot sell. I would argue that skies seem darker on the toshiba front.

McLaughlin

Jun 19, 2007, 12:02 PM

If HD-DVD fails, Blu-Ray is up shits creek too. No one will pay a thousand bucks for a small jump in picture quality that a good chunk of people don't have the equipment to enjoy. I'd say they're both toast as of right now, but Sony's got the worse track record when it comes to format wars.

We'll see.

DurakkenX

Jun 19, 2007, 02:09 PM

Tweengo - The reason it takes longer for EU to get things is because it has to be translated into 3 or 4 languages and it has to be reworked a bit as it uses different TV standards than US and Japan.

RoninJuku - Blockbuster is basing it completely on rentals and the reason people are renting Blu-ray is because the big movies are being primarily released on blu-ray and there is a bit more content...not really much, but enough. Also Blockbuster is not completely doing away with HD-DVD, they are just doing away with it in most areas...of course blockbuster has never made very good decisions on what to and not to support in the past so it's really not a sign of who's winning... Blockbuster still is renting HD-DVD in it's testing stores and it online rental department which is more key than anything else.

ShinMaruku

Jun 19, 2007, 02:45 PM

Such hate... Great social experiment this is. People bitch on what's convenient. $599 is retarded yes but no more retarded than Sony must die.

Alas all a result of people and people are hardly logical.

Solstis

Jun 19, 2007, 04:44 PM

On 2007-06-19 12:45, ShinMaruku wrote:
Such hate... Great social experiment this is. People bitch on what's convenient. $599 is retarded yes but no more retarded than Sony must die.

Alas all a result of people and people are hardly logical.

Oh good, popcorn philosophy.

I really do like a good number of Sony products. It's like Head-on, I hate their marketing/management, but love their stereo stuff.

DurakkenX

Jun 19, 2007, 05:08 PM

I only like a few things to suck...and my game companies aren't one of them!

Sinue_v2

Jun 19, 2007, 06:47 PM

Great social experiment this is.

I've stated many times, I don't think Sony Computer Entertainment makes games or consoles. They're an elaborate social experiment to see how much shit and mediocrity they can force the public to take, and still become the leader in the games industry.

They've had a lot of fuckups up to this point, but it's amusing to see that the one thing that puts them over the edge is the price of their console. And they could possibly still end up pulling out a victory this generation.

Sekani

Jun 19, 2007, 06:54 PM

Right now Blu-ray has far more studio support than HD-DVD does, and on paper it's also the superior media format. Blu-ray should've been in perfect position to win this format war (a first EVER for a Sony-backed format), but I'm interested in seeing how much fallout this causes.

Niered

Jun 19, 2007, 10:33 PM

On 2007-06-18 21:36, DurakkenX wrote:
PS2 was not a big hitter either when you really think about it...

Mister End-of-year-fiscal-reports would like his dignity back.

The PS2, up until at least a month ago, was STILL outselling its younger brother. Regardless of the fact that half of the PS2's games were sequels, it was still the juggernaut in the last console war.

Thats akin to saying "Well y'know guys, the Game Boy wasnt really THAT big of a portable system, Tiger handhelds TOTALLY pressured its sales."

McLaughlin

Jun 19, 2007, 11:23 PM

On 2007-06-19 20:33, Niered wrote:
Thats akin to saying "Well y'know guys, the Game Boy wasnt really THAT big of a portable system, Tiger handhelds TOTALLY pressured its sales."

The N-Gage had it on the run for a whi-...XD

I can't even type that without laughing.

I really have nothing against the PS3 (nothing on it interests me), I just dislike the company behind it. Sony is the bigger group of the most arrogant, obnoxious people I've ever seen.

Sony, you thought people would buy your console if you launched it with no games (was that guy fired?). You basically DID launch it with no games, and the consumers finally caught on and said no. Then all your devs jumped ship. Your online service blows too.

The Sony fanboy creed? "Eventually."

DurakkenX

Jun 19, 2007, 11:47 PM

I'm not saying PS2 isn't selling... i'm saying it sold mainly to people who wanted replacements for their PSXs that were made to become defective after 3 or less years, those who like to have the new sports title of their favorite sports game reincarnation, fanboys, and those who were just fell prey to the hype, i personally didn't buy a PS2 for quite a while because Dreamcast and GC was far superior to it as was and prolly still would be without the backwards compatability that sells all the playstations...and playstation itself was a fluke.

imfanboy

Jun 19, 2007, 11:58 PM

Now now, credit where credit is due - the PS2 succeeded because it was a DVD player in addition to a game player. The games may well have been graphically inferior to Dreamcast (hell, they WERE; did you ever play Mr. Mosquito and compare it to, say, Soul Calibur?) but there were a lot of them and the games didn't have to have amazing graphics because they were fun, and the system itself wasn't too expensive when you looked at it from the prospective of DVD Player + Games Machine.

Sounds like Nintendo looked at why the PS2 succeeded and tried to incorporate as much of that as they could into their Wii. It's fun, may not have the best graphics, but it has backwards compatibility with the entire library of Nintendo games, theoretically, and it's cheap.

And Sony learned nothing from their past success, and thought that those successes meant they could do anything. I feel no sympathy for them whatsoever. The PS3 is going to be another Jaguar, Saturn, or Dreamcast: a dead system that gamers talk about with a shrug and a sigh... except that it won't have the games that the DC or Saturn had.

Oh, I forgot to mention the prime reason HD DVD will win: porno companies! They ain't paying for the production costs to make Blu-ray when they can just retool their regular DVD production to HD stuff. Porno is powerful in format wars, make no mistake - many people think VHS won because the porn companies went that way.

[ This Message was edited by: imfanboy on 2007-06-19 22:09 ]

ShinMaruku

Jun 20, 2007, 12:14 AM

On 2007-06-19 14:44, Solstis wrote:

On 2007-06-19 12:45, ShinMaruku wrote:
Such hate... Great social experiment this is. People bitch on what's convenient. $599 is retarded yes but no more retarded than Sony must die.

Alas all a result of people and people are hardly logical.

Oh good, popcorn philosophy.

I really do like a good number of Sony products. It's like Head-on, I hate their marketing/management, but love their stereo stuff.

I agree. Their marketing and management are all insane people. Only Harrison has sense.

DurakkenX

Jun 20, 2007, 12:57 AM

what do you expect from a company's motto might as well be "let's try to fuck nintendo"

Please don't put PS3 and jaguar in the same category as DC and Saturn...people look back on DC with love and it will prolly be a foot note in the memories of all gamers till they die that DC and SNES were the two best consoles during this period of gaming

Blitzkommando

Jun 20, 2007, 05:32 AM

On 2007-06-19 16:54, Sekani wrote:
Right now Blu-ray has far more studio support than HD-DVD does, and on paper it's also the superior media format. Blu-ray should've been in perfect position to win this format war (a first EVER for a Sony-backed format), but I'm interested in seeing how much fallout this causes.

Hold the boat. Blu-Ray uses the same codecs as HD-DVD, at the same resolution. Neither format even gets filled up as is, let alone a dual-layer variant of Blu-Ray (which is horrendously expensive to produce). HD-DVD is easier to allow backwards compatibility for, and uses the same machinery to produce as normal DVDs just slightly modified at nominal cost. Neither format is superior to the other in quality (except for the early Blu-Ray movies which used an inferior compression that actually made them look worse but which since has been changed). While Blu-Ray can claim capacity crown for dual-layer, HD-DVD can potentially be written to as many as eight layers for gigantic capacity. But, again, why do that when you can have a full 1080 HD movie, 4 hours of MPEG2 (essentially DVD quality) special bonus features and still have room to spare on current media?

Unlike Betamax where it really was a superior format, Blu-Ray brings nothing to the table except additional cost in manufacturing and equipment. Neither format is ideal for being used as a backup medium for computers. They take far too long and even at 35/50GB a disc it takes multiple to backup the gigantic capacity of hard drives today. But, then again, optical media has always been that way to an extent. It's cheaper to simply buy another hard drive and make a RAID 1 out of it and never have to worry about backups. Solid state and light storage are the next steps and when those become mainstream they'll kill off mechanical hard drives and optical drives/discs in a single, horribly devistating, blow.

Another big issue users have with Blu-Ray is the horribly overblown DRM of Blu-Ray. HD-DVD, while worse than DVD, is still not nearly as bad. While not everyone cares about such an issue, there is a growing crowd that are sick of the increasing hoops to jump through just to play a movie on their computer (or even on the television). But, DRM is the staple of Sony's business strategy and it has gotten them in hot water before (audio CDs corrupting Mac CD-drives and crashing Windows machines, the rootkit fiasco, and the like).

Rubius-sama

Jun 20, 2007, 08:29 AM

Who the hell would buy "The Prestige" on blue ray?? Fucking terrible movie.

Anyways, I'm glad I bought an HD-DVD player. I don't trust Sony.

Sekani

Jun 20, 2007, 10:26 AM

On 2007-06-20 03:32, Norvekh wrote:

Another big issue users have with Blu-Ray is the horribly overblown DRM of Blu-Ray. HD-DVD, while worse than DVD, is still not nearly as bad. While not everyone cares about such an issue, there is a growing crowd that are sick of the increasing hoops to jump through just to play a movie on their computer (or even on the television). But, DRM is the staple of Sony's business strategy and it has gotten them in hot water before (audio CDs corrupting Mac CD-drives and crashing Windows machines, the rootkit fiasco, and the like).

The draconian AACS standards aren't exclusive to Blu-ray, though from my understanding Sony added in a couple of evil extra backdoors as well. The whole DRM debacle is going to come down to the studios against the consumers, with the format backers stuck in the middle trying to please everyone.

DRM is the number one reason that I haven't made the jump to either format yet.

McLaughlin

Jun 20, 2007, 10:32 AM

Forgive my technical ineptitude, but what is DRM?

ShinMaruku

Jun 20, 2007, 11:35 AM

On 2007-06-19 22:57, DurakkenX wrote:
what do you expect from a company's motto might as well be "let's try to fuck nintendo"

Please don't put PS3 and jaguar in the same category as DC and Saturn...people look back on DC with love and it will prolly be a foot note in the memories of all gamers till they die that DC and SNES were the two best consoles during this period of gaming

People overstate Nintneod's creativity they are at times the least innovative. they hardly make advances unless they compltly need to, and they make eleventy billion Mario,Zelda,Metriod and other ilk hardly new IPs.

Sega innovated not Nintendo Sega been more a harbinger of trends than they have ever been.

Sega CD brought the CD medium (Fails yes, but it got adopted as the standard only staved off by Nintendo because they hate change.)

Then the Sega Saturn which had an architecture eerily like the dual triple, core stuff we see today. Then we got the Dreamcast which brought online gaming to the console mainstream. Nintendo innovative?

Hardly only when need be while the others push it out. Sega innovated the rest of the fuckers are copiers.

And while you lo might want Sony to die but if not for them Gaming would not be as it is now. You think Nintendo woul;d have done these "wonderful" things if they were in the same spot years ago? Hell no. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

But people are selective.

DurakkenX

Jun 20, 2007, 12:44 PM

Obsidian it means Digital Rights M... i don't know what the m stands for, basically it the anti-piracy software being used and it's causing lots of problem. Even if you have a Bl-ray player and you rent a Blu-ray movie it doesn't mean you'll be able to watch that movie and even worse it could crash, or even kill parts of your computer/system. About a year ago studios started to release DVDs with a program that if it were ran with out certain requirements it would kill your DVD drive... and I know there are some DVDs that don't allow you to play your movies on a TV if it is not hooked directly up to the TV.

Shinmaruku - Who said anything about creativity? Sony simply hates nintendo and thats the only reason they are in the game industry really... They haven't achieved anything other than making the game market full of crappy games. The only reason they are successful is because they had no quality control over game produced by the developers and developers were tired of the overbearing quality control of nintendo. And nintendo made PSX. PS2 was pretty much a console that survived off PSX for the longest time as well...sure it has better graphics and looks, better, but it's still just surviving off the luck that it had with the timing of what happened.

As far as Sega being original...I used to argue that, but don't any more simply because it's not true. CD drives were being used long before in the "other" consoles... you know, the ones that were simply either not mainstream or really expensive. such as 3DO. And internet connectivity, that was originated i think by Atari or even further back...The NES and I think the SNES both had internet components that that never caught on. As far as the multi-core... not sure, maybe.

All in all, as I was saying Sony has little to nothing to do with their actual success. Their success was and is completely driven by developers and Nintendo.

As far as nintendo's creativity...not creating new characters, but new worlds for them and new stories for them is actually more creative than just creating a new character as you can easily create new characters for a story. Look at Zelda as a prime example, the game is always done differently, with new features, a slightly different story, and not all the character are the same. The only thing not explained is how the main character always just happens to be named Link even though most of them are all different characters who wear the same clothes.

Niered

Jun 20, 2007, 01:49 PM

On 2007-06-20 06:29, Rubius-sama wrote:
Who the hell would buy "The Prestige" on blue ray?? Fucking terrible movie.

BRAIN...DYING...COGNITIVE REASONING...FADING...

*borked*

AUTO_

Jun 20, 2007, 01:55 PM

On 2007-06-18 05:55, Artea wrote:
If sony were smart, they'd re-evaluate their system and re-release it without the blu-ray player if they want to survive this round. Knowing them, they won't do it though. A few games down the road may help with hardware sales, but overall they're at a HUGE loss.

You do know that the GAMES Sony releases are also on Blu-Rays, yes?

And more than likely this is just an isolated problem. I have somewhere around 20+ BD's that have all been played at least 3x, and none of them have any kind of issue (I even have the Prestige which is one of the BD's mentioned in the article).

As far as the people saying BD is going the way to the Beta, etc...

You all realize Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD currently at a ratio of 7:3 right? And that lots of major retailers have already shut-down HD-DVD in favor of Blu-Ray?

Blockbuster recently stopped carrying HD-DVD and have gone solely to Blu-Ray. They're only continuing HD-DVD's in the 150 original stores that carried them, whereas the new BD policy is putting them available in ALL Blockbuster stores.

For all the people who reply with "Yeah, well Blockbuster sucks"---that might be the case, but the fact is it's also one of the largest rental/purchase movie retailers in the US.

Even Peter Moore is wising up to the situation--as he recently said on interview that the "360's ability to adapt to current technology is what makes it so unique", which he said more in less in light of the BD-HD sales ratio, that himself and MS are contemplating the situation of putting out a BD compatible player for the 360.

doubleEXP

Jun 20, 2007, 02:59 PM

I'm sure I'll laugh at myself (sooner than later) for typing this... but I really don't see the point of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

Regular DVD looks and sounds awesome. I'm all for better technology, but some things really don't need to be improved.

Granted most people have mp3 players these days, but for a hard copy (or to pop in a car that doesn't have good mp3 ports) CD's are still awesome, and that's technology that's well over 20 years old.

I personally plan to keep watching DVD's for at least another 10 years. Even though Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are 'better' I really don't need their improvements to enjoy watching my back-copies of The Sopranos or Battlestar Galactica.

Its not like the difference between VHS and DVD which was so dramatic that it made me all but incapable of enjoying a VHS tape once I'd seen DVD. To me the improvements in visuals offered by Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, while nice, are evolutionary and not revolutionary.

Once one of them becomes standard I'm sure I'll get a gadget that plays DVD + [fill in format that wins this 'war'] and continue trucking along.

Sekani

Jun 20, 2007, 03:06 PM

On 2007-06-20 08:32, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
Forgive my technical ineptitude, but what is DRM?

DRM = Digital Rights Management. At its most basic it's the technology used to prevent unauthorized copying of stuff like DVDs. In a broader sense it's designed to allow content providers to control how their content is accessed. An example would be how iTunes downloads won't work on a Zune, or how movies from XBL Marketplace stop working after a couple days. Studios love it because it helps prevent piracy and puts more money in their pockets; consumers hate it because it moves away from them actually owning media as opposed to perpetually renting it.

The DRM on both HD formats is considered to be excessively restrictive in that it won't allow content to be played on certain hardware, and in the case of Blu-ray players the manufacturer could theoretically remotely disable the player to prevent someone from watching a movie.

Sekani

Jun 20, 2007, 03:09 PM

On 2007-06-20 12:59, doubleEXP wrote:
Its not like the difference between VHS and DVD which was so dramatic that it made me all but incapable of enjoying a VHS tape once I'd seen DVD. To me the improvements in visuals offered by Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, while nice, are evolutionary and not revolutionary.

It depends on your TV. Most people may not notice a big difference, but if you own a 60-something-inch plasma it might as well be night and day.

doubleEXP

Jun 20, 2007, 03:21 PM

On 2007-06-20 13:09, Sekani wrote:

On 2007-06-20 12:59, doubleEXP wrote:
Its not like the difference between VHS and DVD which was so dramatic that it made me all but incapable of enjoying a VHS tape once I'd seen DVD. To me the improvements in visuals offered by Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, while nice, are evolutionary and not revolutionary.

It depends on your TV. Most people may not notice a big difference, but if you own a 60-something-inch plasma it might as well be night and day.

Fair enough, I'm sure.

I currently have a relatively small HDTV (36" LCD). I'm sure when I, someday, get a big azz HDTV I'll be tempted to sing a different tune.

The thing about DVD, though, is you could appreciate the difference even on a tiny 19" set AND on a huge HDTV (as compared to VHS). To me, the new formats don't 'wow' me the way DVD 'wowed' me when it came out.

But like I said, knowing the way things change, I'll someday (someday soon, most likely) laugh at myself for doubting the usefulness of Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD.

ShinMaruku

Jun 20, 2007, 05:13 PM

On 2007-06-20 10:44, DurakkenX wrote:

Shinmaruku - Who said anything about creativity? Sony simply hates nintendo and thats the only reason they are in the game industry really... They haven't achieved anything other than making the game market full of crappy games. The only reason they are successful is because they had no quality control over game produced by the developers and developers were tired of the overbearing quality control of nintendo. And nintendo made PSX. PS2 was pretty much a console that survived off PSX for the longest time as well...sure it has better graphics and looks, better, but it's still just surviving off the luck that it had with the timing of what happened.

As far as Sega being original...I used to argue that, but don't any more simply because it's not true. CD drives were being used long before in the "other" consoles... you know, the ones that were simply either not mainstream or really expensive. such as 3DO. And internet connectivity, that was originated i think by Atari or even further back...The NES and I think the SNES both had internet components that that never caught on. As far as the multi-core... not sure, maybe.

All in all, as I was saying Sony has little to nothing to do with their actual success. Their success was and is completely driven by developers and Nintendo.

As far as nintendo's creativity...not creating new characters, but new worlds for them and new stories for them is actually more creative than just creating a new character as you can easily create new characters for a story. Look at Zelda as a prime example, the game is always done differently, with new features, a slightly different story, and not all the character are the same. The only thing not explained is how the main character always just happens to be named Link even though most of them are all different characters who wear the same clothes.

Sony hate Nintendo? WAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sony doesn't give a dman bout them. Both companies have their heads up their ass to worry about each other.

Sega was the first to sucessfully use the internet gaming model (Hell we are on a site about their most sucessful online game. They also gave console gamers an attempt to try out UT (Or is it Quake?)
I also think their attepmt to push the Sega CD out made Nintnedo consider an add on which brought in the current devil and they told them no. Which led to the insane man behind the whole Sony attempt put out the playstation which grew the console market into somthing much large than it was thus making Sony responsible to having led to these types of games we see today. But people are selective when they decide to be primadonnas.

but meh Sega is retarded today so it's not convenient to give them the credit they had due. Rather follow some trend and say "Sony sucks ass and should die."

I'm glad one of the Sega execs made them comments he did it's so funny they still have balls.

If your issue is the price of the damn thing that's valid but when people go into a shitstorm over that, it's a shame alas the mundanes don't give a damn like you lot do.

Blitzkommando

Jun 21, 2007, 04:07 AM

Online game distrobution with consoles was started with Nintendo (with the Famicom), as was the move to analog control sticks versus digital pads (Nintendo 64). Nintendo also was the company that revolutionized the light gun through technology they developed at bowling alleys they purchased in Japan and converted to clay pidgeon ranges in the mid to late 1970s. Let's also not forget they started that whole crazy rumble business with the Nintendo 64 as well. If you're going to complain about originality at least give them credit when it is due. Hell, Super Mario Bros. was the first game to introduce a scrolling screen like that as well. 3D platform/adventure games hit it big with the Nintendo 64 as well with Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time. And let's not forget the whole "cart racing" schtick was started by them as well. The SuperFX chip (and SuperFX 2) was a rather ingenius idea to boost the processing power of the system without having to do anything to the system itself. Nintendo has had their fair share of the innovation just as Sega had.

As far as Sony and Nintendo are concerned, they were pretty close back in the 90s. The sound chip in the Super NES was a Sony part for instance. PlayStation was originally going to be an add-on to the Super NES as well but neither party could decide exactly how to go about it so the deal was cancelled twice, with Nintendo attempting to re-start the deal a third time only to hear Sony tell them that they were going into the console business. To be fair though Nintendo did try the project with Panasonic before going to Sony again. The end result is that the endevor was too expensive and didn't bring much to the table in time for the release of what would become the Nintendo 64.

As for seeing the difference HD makes one really has to see full 1080P on a 1080P native monitor to really see the benefits. Most monitors that support 1080i do some sort of weird scaling as they don't actually display at that resolution but instead run at 1366x768 or 1280x720 and scale the 1080 content down to display. That's my main issue I have with the majority of plasma panels is that they are 720P native and 1920x1080 is over 2 times as many pixels as 1280x720. The larger the screen the more apparent the difference between them because the pixels are larger. DVDs on the other hand are 720x480 which becomes very blurry on the larger screens even when upscaled well. While many people will not notice a difference between 480i/P and 720i/P, in a native situation side-by-side with the lower resolution media, 1080i/P suddenly looks very different from the others.