PC? Mac? Which do YOU think is better now that vista is out?

[Ravennittes]

Which do YOU like better wih Vista out and all? Are you to go with the tried and true OSX, the newbie Vista, or Vista's older brother, XP?

[Wyndham]

I have had 7 macs, and I also owned 3 PCs. I prefer macs by far. I don't need too many games on computers, because I prefer consoles. I like the way macs work, and ours last longer. my grandmother give us her old ones, except one of our current 2 mac minis.

[Polly]

I honestly don't care. I use Macs at work everyday and Macs are great for the work I do. I use PCs at home because they do everything I want to do while I'm at home and won't cost me out the nose to build a kickass (and better) machine. XP and Ubuntu might not be as pretty as OS X, but I honestly don't need OS X for anything I do at home.

[Solstis]

So, by Vista, you mean OSX for Windows? But terrible?

XP was fine, I thought. Little buggy, a little cranky, but fine. I refuse to use Vista.

[PJ]

Every Mac I have ever used in the existance of the time I have used Macs have frozen constantly, have been slow, and have been a pain to use.

Don't even get me started on those older mouse...

[Sekani]

Some people seem to believe this myth that Macs never crash, never have viruses, etc. That aside, I think they're great for people who don't have much experience with computers.

I personally prefer PCs because of their customizability, larger choice of apps, and familiarity with Windows. XP is a pretty good operating system, despite what Linux fanboys may tell you.

[Kent]

The sheer versatility of Windows makes it a better option.

That and, you know, games run on it.

Besides... I've been using Vista since its release, and haven't had any problems with it. For me, it's the best thing to happen to computers since ... IMEs.

[amtalx]

PC has and always will be superior, but it has nothing to do with Vista or even Windows. PC is the best because you can do whatever the hell you want with it. I run several different operating systems in my house for various reasons. If I had all Macs I could run...oh wait, none of them.

[Jive18]

Like Kent, I've been using Vista since January.

It really has been an enjoyable experience - common issues that people complain about with Vista are simply driver issues (please, I had my 8800GTS working great with a new driver within minutes) and Account User Control (because typing in a 3/4 letter password is so hard).

It's a great operating system, I'm looking foward to SP1 to see what else gets added.

[DLShAdOw]

Both are good, OSX is prettier and safer, XP is more versatile, Vista is OSX, Macs are more expensive, and PC cheaper. Macs can run XP.

[Blitzkommando]

I've been running Vista since January and the problems I've had were due to the particular motherboard I had which lost support just 5 months after it was release. My old computer (circa 2003) however has been running Vista 32-bit beautifully since January. It sits here for days without a restart and is my 'test' machine for new programs and still runs great. And with my new upgrades my primary system has been running Vista 64-bit pretty much exclusively. A number of games actually perform better under Vista than XP (Stalker being the best example). The people that I most often see complaining about Vista are those that have either never used the system or that currently have driver issues due to either old or unsupported parts. Like I say, my old machine lucked out and is still getting chipset driver updates every two months or so, and the board was released in mid-2003.

As for Mac OSX I haven't had much time to work with it. I'm considering one of the new MacBook Pro's for college as I could easily do the whole Boot Camp thing and still get experience and work with the Mac operating system. The new 10.5 is getting a lot of features that were introduced with Windows Vista, a number of which I really like. The one thing I like about Windows is the ability to get the service packs for free rather than paying $150 (retail) for them like with Mac OSX. Of course, I also like the ability to build my own machine for as little as half the price of a pre-built with shoddier hardware and that's something I'd miss with Mac OS (although Apple tends to choose fairly quality parts but still have a bit lacking in features on their motherboards). Apple has been getting tighter again on making it more difficult to upgrade outside of harddrives, memory, and monitors which is really too bad. Of course, selling the OS for people to build their own systems would ruin the whole Apple policy of "It just works" and being part of 'the society' or whatever they're calling it now. It also allows them to entirely control their market, for better or for worse, which as a PC user of 14 years is hard to give up to say the least.

Also, like other users I work in multiple operating systems. I still have Windows XP installed on my main computer but I haven't booted into it for a while now, and only did so to verify the stability of my overclock with minimal interference. I have openSUSE on my old computer with Vista, and no XP install anymore as Vista has been so stable that I saw no reason to keep it. As for my previous computer I've fought with it since I built it but I'm considering tripple-booting Vista, XP, and some distro of Linux probably Ubuntu, Freespire, or Mandriva and I'm undecided as to whether to use 64-bit or 32-bit.

All three groups have their advantages and disadvantages. Windows is great because there is just so much out there made for it, and it's the prime choice for gaming. Linux is great for running a server or other low-level tasks and gaming is spotty at best. Mac has always had nice memory management (much like Linux due to their Unix base) and has great support for multimedia content creation as well as fairly easy to get into use, the opposite of Linux. All three can be insecure and all three can get virus/spyware/adware problems. Windows is the easiest to have problems with them simply because the vast majority (well into the 90+% range) of malware is made for Windows. Personally I find the Microsoft business model to be the one I agree most with and Linux the least (mainly from an economic standpoint because the way Linux is done it simply can't make money which means little to no support in the market). The advantage both Windows and Mac OSX have is that both have big backing and have a single product. Linux is divided into so many distrobutions that no single distrobution can be the unifier (mainly because all of the distrobutions try to reach a different group and purpose). If Linux users really want to put a dent into the Windows (and Mac) run marketplace they need a single distrobution to become well known to Joe Schmoe User. SUSE and Freespire are getting fairly good backing from Microsoft which could, in what can only be the ultimate irony, be Microsoft's answer to lack of open source as well as being able to essentially do what Apple does and control the situation with two distrobutions.

[McLaughlin]

Reason enough. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=rEvYETWVK6M)

[Solstis]

Uh, seriously, I used to love Windows and all, and I'm happy to have both available to me, but you must be seriously incompetent to consistently crash a Mac like the guy in the video did. Windows programs converted and whatnot through Wine tend to be buggy and crash the system, but they're Windows programs. Windows programs crash Windows, too.

I have crashed my Mac all of twice, whereas I have been personally responsible for the near-death of two computers, and have actually killed one or two PCs. Why? Well, I'm not really sure why, but changing the wireless internet settings apparently made XP lose its theme, and forget that it had a soundcard, emitting a high-pitched beep everytime I tried to do something. Then it had the nerve to tell me that it didn't have the ability to enable Windows Firewall.

Oh, come on people. PCs are great for customizability and gaming. Macs are great for being relatively secure and easy to use. Imagine this: Macs are cats. They're pretty lazy, and you have to give them some incentive to do anything, but they fall asleep quickly, and shutdown like nobody's business. I can shut my case and know that my computer will go to sleep and stay asleep unless I need it. PCs are narcoleptic, undead horses. They bite, they might fall apart at any moment, but boy can you swap that thing's skeletal frame around.

Sheer versatility? The sheer ability to need reformats? I love my Gateway, but the thing is a piece of fetid shit in comparison to my Macbook.

[Ketchup345]

PC. I like being able to do some things on my own (especially hardware-wise) that is not easily done on a Mac. I hate how the screen is built into Macs (at least for the "affordable" non-low end systems [affordable non-low-end meaning iMacs]; personal preference to have them separate; and why is screen size tied to performance? What if I want a performance machine that can only be a certain size?) and the lack of easily available replacement/upgrade hardware. For $1000US you can build a great machine that runs Windows or your choice of Linux. Like Norvekh said also, free semi-major updates are nice (Service packs for Windows, new versions for certain brands of Linux).

With a half hour of time and an internet connection, you could get a secure (good enough for normal people) Windows machine running using legally free things (assuming home machine, not for a business/charity/etc). XP is also quite stable for me.

To add to Norvekh's comment on how upgrading an Apple is hard: The hard drive on the Macbook Pro sounds quite difficult to get to and replace, with something like just the amount of screws needed to swap the hard drive being equal to or greater than the total number of screws in my Dell laptop. Regular Macbooks looks easier (3 screws and a few extra steps), compared to my Dell (2 screws and a pull).

I don't like some of Mac OS's behavior and they come with a lot of software (and hardware) I'd never use (then most computer companies do include a lot of software that is junk, but nothing annoying if you build your own).

And I know I'm weird for saying this, but I find OSX to be ugly, even Vista and P are ugly. I prefer "ugly" OSes such as the Windows 98 look (classic Windows, whatever, grey bars, boxes, not rounded suff, etc).

I haven't used Vista, so I can't compare XP to it.


On 2007-06-18 23:25, CupOfCoffee wrote:
Plus, I'm not sure if it's even possible to build your own PC laptop, and unless you're willing to shill out some serious cashdollars for an Alienware or something, it's gonna be the whole "OMG WELCOME TO HP LET ME WALK U THROUG THE BIG REGISTRATION PROCESS AND THEN SPAM U WITH LITTLE HP ADDS AND BUBBLES N SHIT ALL THE TIME!!" OSX doesn't really ever do that kind of stuff because it is harder to screw around with and modify.It seems like you can build a PC laptop, but it is somewhat difficult and parts are limited. You don't need an Alienware to get a clean OS install, either build your own (can be done extremely cheaply) or do an OS reinstall.


On 2007-06-18 22:52, Solstis wrote:
I have crashed my Mac all of twice, whereas I have been personally responsible for the near-death of two computers, and have actually killed one or two PCs. Why? Well, I'm not really sure why, but changing the wireless internet settings apparently made XP lose its theme, and forget that it had a soundcard, emitting a high-pitched beep everytime I tried to do something. Then it had the nerve to tell me that it didn't have the ability to enable Windows Firewall.

Oh, come on people. PCs are great for customizability and gaming. Macs are great for being relatively secure and easy to use. Imagine this: Macs are cats. They're pretty lazy, and you have to give them some incentive to do anything, but they fall asleep quickly, and shutdown like nobody's business. I can shut my case and know that my computer will go to sleep and stay asleep unless I need it. PCs are narcoleptic, undead horses. They bite, they might fall apart at any moment, but boy can you swap that thing's skeletal frame around.

Sheer versatility? The sheer ability to need reformats? I love my Gateway, but the thing is a piece of fetid shit in comparison to my Macbook.It is difficult to mess up a computer beyond repair. Could it have been a hardware problem?

With some minor work, Windows can be secure. I do have some problems with standby on my Windows laptop, I'll have to look into that; other than that XP is quite stable for me. The only other problem I;ve had with Windows doing something completely unexpected was in my Desktop Computers class where setting up a small network machines would start asking for passwords even though they were never needed before or had to use a special search to find a computer that was connected when the day before it showed on its own (though these could have been caused by tampering by students from outside the class [the room was not used just by our class] or because it was an original version of Windows [2000?] with no updates [remember 2000 had 4 service packs]).

Need reformats? I've never needed a reformat once I learned good computing habits and found good programs for ad/spyware and virus scanning.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2007-06-18 23:40 ]</font>

[CupOfCoffee]

As a not-huge computer person, I like and prefer Macs. I've used both, grew up on PCs, but simply don't like the fussiness. Plus, I'm not sure if it's even possible to build your own PC laptop, and unless you're willing to shill out some serious cashdollars for an Alienware or something, it's gonna be the whole "OMG WELCOME TO HP LET ME WALK U THROUG THE BIG REGISTRATION PROCESS AND THEN SPAM U WITH LITTLE HP ADDS AND BUBBLES N SHIT ALL THE TIME!!" OSX doesn't really ever do that kind of stuff because it is harder to screw around with and modify.

So, yeah. PCs are great for ubernerds who want to hack and do all sorts of crazy stuff with their computer, but for me--art student--Warcrafter--part time writer--iTunes addict--OSX is obvious choice.

[ABDUR101]

PC's are great if you're going to spend $1k or so and have a decent system that you're going to use for the next five years until you want to plunk down another $1k. Honestly, I see some stupid shit when it comes to PC users.

Every PC user says how Mac's are uppity pricks about "the society" or whatever? Well marketting strategies aside, when someone throws down for a case that is water-cooled, air-cooled, has more lights than a fucking christmas tree and sounds like it's going to take off from the desk and bomb the neighbors? Fuck that.

I find it funny that alot of people will talk trash about paying more for a Mac, but then they'll go blow just as much on an insanely stupid computer rig setup that has all kinds of bells and whistles on JUST THE CASE. I've seen cases so far fetched that they make Pimp My Ride and Trick my Truck look TAME. Some really god-aweful things that make you think "Are they USING the computer or do they just sit and beat off as they look at it, and brag about it to all their other nerd friends?"

I've been there, done that. It was interesting to tweak and add afew little neat things to my comp's over the years; but come on, whirring fans, obnoxious lighting, cases that are more attention getting than anything?(How do you set and are able to concentrate on the screen with a box of lights next to you?)

After using a Mac Mini for business related and overall "general use", I have to say hands down I love it alot more than any PC I've owned. Now granted, mac doesn't boast having all kinds of games; and thats fine, because when it comes down to doing all kinds of shit on my mac, even browsing the web and using Expose and having everything within mouseclicks away(and not dealing with a startmenu and taskbars), I much prefer the OSX's ease of use.

Using my Mac is more enjoyable than doing much of anything on my PC. My PC is really relegated to only being a gaming platform, of which I only play one game as of late anyway. But the Mac? That thing is my new standard. And people can say the mac UI is ugly, but there's plenty of downloadable and user created UI's you can get for it just like Windows. Not to mention my Mac Mini is dead silent; when I swap from the whirring PC and it's fans, to the mac mini, my ears are going "...the hell is this? Doth thou ring true? SILENCE?!"

Anyone who honestly buys into the fanboy side of things on either side; stupid. Everyone needs to look past the marketting bullshit and just see them for what they are. Both serve their purposes, and all it comes down to is preference on what you like to use, and what you can't use. If you're judging on anything other than that, you're an idiot and effectively your opinion is moot.

[Ravennittes]

So you know, the Mac G5 (which you cannot buy anymore from Apple) siubds like a jet-engine at start-up (funny http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif). for 1,000-2,000 dollars, you can get a Mac that can run Windows AND Mac simultaneously, and work for 5-10 years competitively with the PC's and Mac's that follow. For instance, my step-dad uses an old G4 from 1998 or 1997 for some of his music software along side his G5 (for the big software like Pro Tools). The thing works fine and it's prolly still better than some of the computers you guys are using right now -.-'.

[amtalx]

On 2007-06-18 21:17, DLShAdOw wrote:
Both are good, OSX is prettier and safer, XP is more versatile, Vista is OSX, Macs are more expensive, and PC cheaper. Macs can run XP.



Actually in a recent security summit OSX was proven to be one of the least secure operating systems, beating out only Linux. This evaluation took into account a lot of aspects most don't, things like bug fix response time, not just the number of holes and severity like most.

[Solstis]

On 2007-06-19 09:43, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-06-18 21:17, DLShAdOw wrote:
Both are good, OSX is prettier and safer, XP is more versatile, Vista is OSX, Macs are more expensive, and PC cheaper. Macs can run XP.



Actually in a recent security summit OSX was proven to be one of the least secure operating systems, beating out only Linux. This evaluation took into account a lot of aspects most don't, things like bug fix response time, not just the number of holes and severity like most.



Are you referring to the summit in 2005, that looked at problems with Darwin? Pretty sure that Apple addressed that already.

My problem with Macs aren't the hardware or the software, but the advertising. What a load of bull. Cut it out, Apple.

[DLShAdOw]

On 2007-06-19 09:43, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-06-18 21:17, DLShAdOw wrote:
Both are good, OSX is prettier and safer, XP is more versatile, Vista is OSX, Macs are more expensive, and PC cheaper. Macs can run XP.



Actually in a recent security summit OSX was proven to be one of the least secure operating systems, beating out only Linux. This evaluation took into account a lot of aspects most don't, things like bug fix response time, not just the number of holes and severity like most.



But that doesn't really matter, because there are barely any viruses for macs.

[astuarlen]

I prefer PCs, but I am a firm believer in the Use Whatever You Like Because Neither is Better doctrine. What gets on my nerves, though, is the refusal of some in the art and design world to acknowledge that you don't need a Mac to do creative work. Not saying that kind of attitude represents the majority of Mac users, of course.


My problem with Macs aren't the hardware or the software, but the advertising. What a load of bull. Cut it out, Apple.
I love those commercials for their ridiculousness (and the fact that PC can be so endearing sometimes).

[MetaZedlen]

On 2007-06-18 23:43, ABDUR101 wrote:
I find it funny that alot of people will talk trash about paying more for a Mac, but then they'll go blow just as much on an insanely stupid computer rig setup that has all kinds of bells and whistles on JUST THE CASE. I've seen cases so far fetched that they make Pimp My Ride and Trick my Truck look TAME. Some really god-aweful things that make you think "Are they USING the computer or do they just sit and beat off as they look at it, and brag about it to all their other nerd friends?"

Yeah, I used to listen to the same shit with a lot of the guys in my IT class, except they would always go on and on about the newest GeForce video card. It's like for God's sake, quit jerking off to your video cards and why don't talk about the fucking games you play instead...

[xxTrystanxx]

I love those Mac commercials! And there's some spoof ones running around on YouTube with Linux and BSD added in... totally hilarious.

That being said, on the eve of Vista's release, I had my computer crash, and I was so angry at Microsoft, I nuked XP and installed Zenwalk 4.2 (now upgraded to 4.6) Haven't looked back since.

[Sekani]

On 2007-06-18 23:43, ABDUR101 wrote:

Anyone who honestly buys into the fanboy side of things on either side; stupid. Everyone needs to look past the marketting bullshit and just see them for what they are. Both serve their purposes, and all it comes down to is preference on what you like to use, and what you can't use. If you're judging on anything other than that, you're an idiot and effectively your opinion is moot.


Ironically, with that last post you sounded like... I don't wanna say a Mac fanboy, but your hatred for tricked-out PCs is a bit irrational. If someone wants to add 100-watt neon lights to their case, I think that falls under "preference on what [they] like to use". Not being able to customize a Mac much (if at all) once you purchase it is a big sticking point for a lot of people.

As for the "marketing bullshit", it IS a little unfair to compare a Mac's best-case scenario to a PC's worst-case scenario, especially when the average experience will likely be similar on both platforms.

[Wyndham]

I'm amazed at the 5 votes. I expected 2.

[DLShAdOw]

Make it 6!
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[ABDUR101]

On 2007-06-19 16:50, Sekani wrote:
Ironically, with that last post you sounded like... I don't wanna say a Mac fanboy, but your hatred for tricked-out PCs is a bit irrational. If someone wants to add 100-watt neon lights to their case, I think that falls under "preference on what [they] like to use". Not being able to customize a Mac much (if at all) once you purchase it is a big sticking point for a lot of people.


I'm utilitarian. A box that sets next to me serves one purpose; to run an OS and provide the juice for me to do what I want.

Like I said, if someone wants to blow hundreds more on a tricked out case(which to me, cases that are just over-the-top are ugly as shit, and more of a self-stroke than anything), feel free.

There's alot you can do to customize a PC; thats cool, everyone can go be unique like everyone else. My point is alot of money gets chucked for redundant additives that serve nothing but self-stroking; but all the while there are complaints of Mac's being expensive.

Pot > Kettle: Black.

Lets not kid ourselves, Macs are expensive just like Nike and every other 'brand' is expensive, you're paying for the name. But what the little kiddies don't realise is, while when they buy a PC there's more they can do, odds are they're still paying more for a PC, and it might have afew extra bells and whistles; but lets realise that alot of those bells and whistles aren't helping anything other than making you feel cool and having something to brag about and show off.

To each their own; I use both. Different OS, different rigs, different uses. I don't need to choose a side because I've got the best of both; sans all the geeky "omg mah system lights up mah entire room by itself".

[amtalx]

Solstis - Nope, it was this year. If i get some time I'll dig up the link.

DLShAdOw - But the problem is that if someone wants to get into your system, they can do it very easily. Just because nobody is looking is not a good reason to walk out of your house naked.

[Rainbowlemon]

On 2007-06-18 23:43, ABDUR101 wrote:
Every PC user says how Mac's are uppity pricks about "the society" or whatever? Well marketting strategies aside, when someone throws down for a case that is water-cooled, air-cooled, has more lights than a fucking christmas tree and sounds like it's going to take off from the desk and bomb the neighbors? Fuck that.

I find it funny that alot of people will talk trash about paying more for a Mac, but then they'll go blow just as much on an insanely stupid computer rig setup that has all kinds of bells and whistles on JUST THE CASE. I've seen cases so far fetched that they make Pimp My Ride and Trick my Truck look TAME. Some really god-aweful things that make you think "Are they USING the computer or do they just sit and beat off as they look at it, and brag about it to all their other nerd friends?"


That's more to do with your own personal experience, though. In relative terms, you WILL pay more for the same spec. PC as a MAC because you're buying an apple product - they can get away with it. Their design is so appealing, that Apple can charge more and not hear complaints.
I've built my own pc, and I despise all that water cooling/fancy LED fans and crap. However, the fact that it is an OPTION, not a necessity, is in the PCs favour.

Expense aside, I prefer PC. I use Vista, and love it. Didn't experience any problems setting it up, and although the user verification popups can get annoying, they're there for a reason.
I do really love the Mac design though - they look really good, and OS X is a stunning, simple interface. But having been used to computers so long, and bearing in mind that PCs are always cheaper/upgradeable...I don't think I'll ever own one.